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Author Topic: MasterCoin Buyer/Seller Thread  (Read 225270 times)
peled1986
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January 01, 2014, 08:02:01 AM
 #2761

Selling 100 MSC @ 0.245 (small amounts are ok)

Maxmint as escrow - pm me if interested.

Also Pre-funded sell offers listed here (MSC already with maxmint): https://mcoin.io/#/

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January 01, 2014, 08:23:07 PM
 #2762

Selling 30 @ 0.3BTC each

Maxmint escrow

PM or see orderbook on mcoin.io
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January 02, 2014, 02:04:11 AM
 #2763


inbox, are you claiming you never tried to defraud masterxchange in any way?

Inbox tried to pull a fast one.  even if he has a legit history, he tried to fuck MasterXchange.  On the other hand, MasterXchange tried very hard to be cooperative.  they: 1) Exposed this bullshit attempt, 2) worked hard with the devos and Johnston to sort out the problem, 3) kept us all informed of the issue, 4) kept cool under pressure.  

MastercoinX should never give back those coins.  either keep them or donate them to the MSC foundation for new security programs.  Inbox was clearly a raging dick in his approach.  

I didn't like MastercoinX so much - but now I do.

Mastercoin is imperfect.  Some people are trying to make it awesome, some other people are trying to make a profit from its flaws.  MastercoinXchange proved a model citizen for the Mastercoin ecosystem and I for one am glad to have them.  Inbox tried some bullshit to steal from others which could have severely crippled the whole thing.  

I hope the community will join me in supporting MastercoinXchange and condemning inbox.  

If you think I don't know what I am talking about, I'll show you over 1000 of my MSC which had different conclusions on different platforms.  I didnt' run off and attempt a double spend like that asshole Inbox.  I stayed calm and asked the devos to work on it.  I could easily have made a $50,000 profit off this flaw.  It could have killed MSC.  Everyone must contribute to improve the system.  Inbox tried to fuck his neighbors - and for that he should pay.

we all have to work together to make this thing more perfect.  Mastercoin is going to be incredible.  But whenever some dick tries to take advantage of its weaknesses before the devos can fix them, I say we strike out against them.

Inbox - you lost your deposit for being an asshole.  I hope you learnt a lesson and don't do it again.  MastercoinXchange - don't give those coins back. Put them into the penalty box and use them for improvement of future security.  No claims of innocence should release those coins.  You did the right thing.  Keep it up.   If MasterXchange kept those, I wouldn't complain and I would actually support them.  But if MastercoinXchange did the right thing, they'd spend those coins on a bounty to fix some important security issue.  Inbox - you shall pay the price.  

Inbox shall pay for the improved security of mastercoin for that bullshit move.  

Hi,

I don't understand what I did wrong. Yes I am claiming I didn't try to defraud them in any way.  
I deposited 262msc which was not credited by the exchange due to a bug which was accidentally discovered a few minutes prior. I contacted them via email, and they told me the tx was invalid (it was valid, just showing invalid on mastercoin-explorer). There was no double spend or attempt to. They told me to take it up with mastercoin-exchange, which i did 10min after (Tachikoma can verifiy). The balance in mastercoin explorer was showing 212msc which were in fact fake, so I tried to send them to the exchange which were credited instantly. I did send a request for withdrawal because I didnt think there would be a problem since the exchange still had the 262msc which were never credited, soon after I cancelled this request.

Why would I try to pull a fast one on them when I was actively trying to get all of this sorted out? I shouldn't have created the 2nd account with the 300msc, but I was curious to see if the bug in mastercoin-explorer was a fluke or could have been reproduced multiple times. I knew the mastercoins deposits would be audited, why would I do anything stupid? I even told them about the fake account.

The whole time I was in contact with Adrien from the exchange. I loved their exchange and had been using it for 1 week on the same account, it's a great exchange and very convenient to trade msc. We are all in this together trying to make mastercoin succeed. I intended no harm towards the exchange and I am truly sorry for the extra account I made. I did not try anything stupid with the duped msc, they were notified that I did indeed create the fake account. I didn't hide anything from them, I did not crash msc to zero, nor did withdraw msc that weren't mine.

Why did I contact Tachikoma straight away to fix the bug 10minutes after they told me my tx was invalid (it was 100% valid), and the bug fix that.
The whole time I was in contact with Adrien trying to get this sorted out.
I don't think someone malicious would have done these things.

All I wanted was the bug to be fixed and my original 262msc credited. I am not a hacker, I don't know much about computer security. We are all in this together and I still expect my account to be reactivated and msc credited.
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January 02, 2014, 02:24:50 AM
 #2764

Hello inbox,

I have trouble believing you did not knew this transaction was showing valid / invalid on different implementation :

http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/75d9753917c9e1c31bf9c4151675724e62bc977e6b832edbd3f8c6c04d2eab08

You did it from yourself to yourself, were you not aware it could be an issue ?

You made the first deposit into our exchange 1 hour later.

You knew about all the different implementation, you know who is in charge of mastercoin-explorer, yet you purposedly deposited hundreds of potentially problematic mastercoins. Only after we did not credit your account since we were relying on mastercoin-explorer (which you would have no way of knowing at this point), did you warned Maran about the bug.

Also,

"they were notified that I did indeed create the fake account" => You never notified us, someone else did and after we froze this second account we discovered it was you as well (since the IP was the same).

Only after we did the first batch of withdrawals where we froze yours & your second account did you actually told us that you are "glad that we found about the duped 300 msc"

This could still a misunderstanding after all. We just do not want to rush anything, and we will maybe ask a third party for resolution once we have reconstructed the whole timeframe.

We ask for your personnal identification. We wont share it. (ID card, proof of residency, and some kind of proof that those are indeed yours)

Had we not both caught onto you and having manual withdrawals, you could have withdrawned hundreds of fake MSC, if of course you were having ill intentions.

Regarding your act of goodwill of warning Maran about the bug, I would be tempted to say that someone malicious & smart that wanted to have a good backstory would have done exactly as you did. Then again, the only way to have definite proof that you wanted to steal from us would have been to let you steal mastercoins.

Had you simply use a couple mastercoins for the second "test", or not use a second account, or not have an anonymous identity, we would never have thought that you could had ill intents. If you indeed were good willed, then I'll suggest in the future you act in a more straightforward way since it can be easilly confused with tentative of theft.

Also, if we ever get to "confiscate" your mastercoins, we will find a way to give them back to the community.

And saying all that, I am not even starting on the fact that you created an "admin" account and searched for a hypothetical admin page.

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January 02, 2014, 02:34:12 AM
 #2765

Hello inbox,

I have trouble believing you did not knew this transaction was showed valid / invalid on different implementation :

http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/75d9753917c9e1c31bf9c4151675724e62bc977e6b832edbd3f8c6c04d2eab08

You did it from yourself to yourself, were you not aware it could be an issue ?

You made the first deposit into our exchange more 1 hour later.

Also,

"they were notified that I did indeed create the fake account" => You never notified us, someone else did and after we froze this account we discovered it was you as well (since the IP was the same).

Only after we did the first batch of withdrawals where we froze yours did you actually told us that you are "glad that we found about the duped 300 msc"

This could still a misunderstanding after all. We just do not want to rush anything, and we will maybe ask a third party for resolution once we have reconstructed the whole timeframe.

We ask for your personnal identification. We wont share it. (ID card, proof of residency, and some kind of proof that those are indeed yours)

Had we not both caught onto you and manual withdrawals, you could have withdrawned hundreds of fake MSC, if of course you were having ill intentions.



This is indeed the transaction that created the bug in mastercoin explorer. I hope Tachikoma can explain the bug better than I can. By accident I sent 50msc to myself instead of sending to your exchange. Mastercoin explorer didnt add the 50msc to the balance which showed a 212msc instead of 212+50msc deposited. So when I sent 262msc to your exchange it showed up as invalid, however this tx was valid and showed up as valid on all other blockchains.

Yes it took me time after this tx to make a deposit, sending mastercoins is still a task for me with the setup I have. My intentions were to send 50msc to your exchange, which would have showed as valid, but I trusted your exchange with the full 262msc and at this point I had already spent 1h trying to figure out what was wrong with the balance so I sent the full amount 262msc instead of 50. This is when i sent the 262msc which showed up as invalid (BUT WAS VALID!) and I had no idea it would show up as invalid.

It is true I notified you about the fake account after it had been frozen, in fact it was when I woke up and noticed your email. You are right, I should have emailed you about it when I created it. I regret this but I had no prior experience with bug reporting. I knew the account would be discovered since you would audit all deposits to see if the someone found out about this before me.

I am reluctant giving you my personal identification, because I feel like this whole event was misinterpreted and my real life identity will be plastered on this forum as a scammer. How can I guarantee this will not happen and please tell me how knowing my information will help with the resolution.

I thought all withdrawals were manual, however the withdraw i did for the 212msc were technically mine. If it did pass, I would have still been entitled to 50msc that was still owed to me. (262msc-50 =212)

I hope this clears up some misunderstanding. Again, I had no ill intentions especially since you were holding my 262msc all along.

"And saying all that, I am not even starting on the fact that you created an "admin" account and searched for a hypothetical admin page."
This is true, I build website so I am curious about these things. I was interested how the website was built. I'm impressed by the speed and nice looking site. I was surprised that the admin page was "admin.php". Yet again, I did not try to bruteforce, I just saw it, and left a few s later. Remember the exchange had 262 of my msc which they did not acknowledge the existence of. It made me very uneasy.

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January 02, 2014, 03:37:22 AM
 #2766

the fact that you created an "admin" account and searched for a hypothetical admin page.
Bad intent.  pure and simple.  Inbox was fucking around and got caught.  Keep his coins and pay them to the first dev who make something nice related to improving this situation.  

Inbox should not have engaged in all that activity which clearly shows his intent was corrupt.  Simple.

Fucking scammers win everytime.  Finally, the good guys caught one of the bad guys.  Now Inbox claims he wasn't trying to cheat?  lolololol.  Only when DarkEmi decides Inbox is a good guy would I withdraw my vote against the scammer. 

Now he doesn't want to give up his ID?  For sure this guy deserves to lose his coins.  Dark said he'd hold it private.  Dark is honorable - something Inbox knows nothing of.  I'd never let this guy back up.   



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January 02, 2014, 03:45:30 AM
 #2767

the fact that you created an "admin" account and searched for a hypothetical admin page.
Bad intent.  pure and simple.  Inbox was fucking around and got caught.  Keep his coins and pay them to the first dev who make something nice related to improving this situation.  

Inbox should not have engaged in all that activity which clearly shows his intent was corrupt.  Simple.

I try to register Admin accounts on many services as a novelty thing. Nothing to do with bad intent. In fact I was one of the top sellers on bitmit with the same username.
I don't agree that trying admin.php is considered as ill intended. I was tired and I was panicking because the exchange was telling me my 262msc transaction was invalid when it was valid.  I didnt try to map out hidden pages or anything of that nature. I was actively trying to get bug fixed so they would credit my account. Just bumming around on their site. I never accessed the backend or anything of this nature.

I have no problem handing out my id. I am just curious how this would help the situation. There are a few people on this forum that know my identity and can verify including John the escrow agent who I've dealt with multiple times.
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January 02, 2014, 03:52:43 AM
 #2768

I try to register Admin accounts on many services as a novelty thing.

Pure absolute bullshit.  Don't ever do that again.  'novelty thing' - right.  Clearly this is activity of a thief.   



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January 02, 2014, 05:31:17 AM
 #2769

Timeline posted by mod of r/mastercoin. http://www.reddit.com/r/mastercoin/comments/1u7ku8/masterxchangecom_update_events_timeline/
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January 02, 2014, 05:38:39 AM
 #2770

I try to register Admin accounts on many services as a novelty thing.

That's a funny one. Do you take us all for idiots?
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January 02, 2014, 05:45:04 AM
 #2771

I try to register Admin accounts on many services as a novelty thing.

That's a funny one. Do you take us all for idiots?

I honestly don't see what wrong with this. A username is a username, doesn't give me extra powers. People like premium domain names, I enjoy having premium usernames.
In fact I was complimented by the masterxchange about it. "Cool user name by the way." -A
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January 02, 2014, 10:09:03 AM
 #2772

My 2 cents on this issue.

No matter what inbox did on that exchange was proper or not, the point is do we think the exchange has the right to forfeit his 262 MSC.

Now from the transaction history, http://mastercoin-explorer.com/addresses/1GBB5KeN4z1Tu9tUgPLQS5z9zdpqvNKjPb, we could clearly see that inbox did send 262 MSC to the exchange and not get credited to his account. Maybe he did something not proper later, but I still don't think the exchange has the right to keep that 262 MSC to themselves. Maybe they can delete his account or even ban his IP, but they have to refund the 262 MSC, which equals to more than $40K now.

Disclaimer: I personally bought 20 MSC from inbox before without escrow. He sent me 8 MSC first and I sent him the BTC later. I appreciated his trust on me so I want to say something for him on this issue.
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January 02, 2014, 11:29:04 AM
 #2773


Now from the transaction history, http://mastercoin-explorer.com/addresses/1GBB5KeN4z1Tu9tUgPLQS5z9zdpqvNKjPb, we could clearly see that inbox did send 262 MSC to the exchange and not get credited to his account. Maybe he did something not proper later, but I still don't think the exchange has the right to keep that 262 MSC to themselves. Maybe they can delete his account or even ban his IP, but they have to refund the 262 MSC, which equals to more than $40K now.


I am not taking side (its hard to know/prove what was inbox "intent") but in general based on your logic, if a thief succeeds and "steals" 212 MSC he should return them all. Do you think a thief will return stolen MSC? Do you think your advice deters future theft attempts?

Criminal Law: An attempt is committed when someone intends to commit a crime and takes some steps toward committing it, but ultimately fails to commit the crime.  The defendant must therefore have both the necessary mental state of intent to commit the crime, and must do some overt act.  

If the perpetrator has taken a direct step, and stops or is stopped by someone or something from carrying out the crime, he or she is still guilty of attempt.  If, however, the person decides to abandon his or her plans before taking a direct step, that person is not guilty of an attempt.

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peled1986
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January 02, 2014, 12:41:00 PM
 #2774

Selling 75 MSC @ 0.24
Pre-funded sell offers listed here (MSC already with maxmint): https://mcoin.io/#/

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Bitrated user: peled1986.

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peled1986
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January 02, 2014, 05:43:12 PM
 #2775

I am not sure if they should keep it for themselves.  

DarkEmi already clarified:

Also, if we ever get to "confiscate" your mastercoins, we will find a way to give them back to the community.

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killerstorm
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January 02, 2014, 06:13:38 PM
 #2776

while your criminal law analysis is worth considering, there is more.  If he were successful and managed to exploit a Mastercoin weakness at this early stage - he could have easily cause the value of Msc to plummet thus causing everyone serious loss of value.  far more than the $40K he is being penalized today.

Or, depending on how you look at it, he is a hero who warns people of the Mastercoin's weakness and prevents much bigger losses.

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shakezula
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January 02, 2014, 07:07:05 PM
 #2777

Is anyone buying Test Mastercoin? If so I have 50 at .02 or 1 BTC total. PM or public thread trade fine, will escrow via maxmint if he's OK with that.
jeroenn13
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January 02, 2014, 08:23:45 PM
 #2778

while your criminal law analysis is worth considering, there is more.  If he were successful and managed to exploit a Mastercoin weakness at this early stage - he could have easily cause the value of Msc to plummet thus causing everyone serious loss of value.  far more than the $40K he is being penalized today.

Or, depending on how you look at it, he is a hero who warns people of the Mastercoin's weakness and prevents much bigger losses.


Do you really think he would have reported if he actually managed to get duped MSC? Im 99% he didn't.
You lost your money. You took a risk to use your MSC while checking for exploits and you lost it, great lesson.
jeroenn13
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January 02, 2014, 08:24:29 PM
 #2779

Is anyone buying Test Mastercoin? If so I have 50 at .02 or 1 BTC total. PM or public thread trade fine, will escrow via maxmint if he's OK with that.

There are lots of developers who gives these for free since it helps testing the system. TMSC are worthless.
zathras
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January 02, 2014, 10:19:41 PM
 #2780

while your criminal law analysis is worth considering, there is more.  If he were successful and managed to exploit a Mastercoin weakness at this early stage - he could have easily cause the value of Msc to plummet thus causing everyone serious loss of value.  far more than the $40K he is being penalized today.

Or, depending on how you look at it, he is a hero who warns people of the Mastercoin's weakness and prevents much bigger losses.

Killerstorm, I always appreciate your views on Mastercoin (specific critique only helps us improve - and we do take it onboard for example we're now enabling features at specific block numbers) but in this case I think it's only fair to point out this really was not a weakness in Mastercoin, it was a bug in one specific software implementation of it. 

Just as a bug in Armory is not a weakness in Bitcoin, I don't think it's fair to label this case as a weakness in Mastercoin.

For the community as a whole, I would recommend against relying on a single site at this early stage.  There are four completely independent implementations and if any disagree (as they did in this case) then you should seek clarification from the dev community and file appropriate bug reports (we're looking into making this easier).  We are of course all working hard to make sure there are no differences, but bugs do occur so be sure to check your transactions on multiple implementations.

You can also check your address here https://masterchest.info/consensus.aspx.  Select 'Show listing of ALL addresses' and do a find-on-page for your address.  You can see your address balance from all four implementations here and whether there is consensus across all implementations.  This is a tool we are using to collaboratively identify and eliminate any differences in interpretation between the various implementations (our next dev con call is upcoming to work on the last few edge cases).

Thanks
Zathras 

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