[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[theBishop]

Listen, I have always been labelled as a cheerleader (which I think is an overused and misrepresented term which has it's roots in the North American culture) however am merely an optimist with a positive outlook on life who wants to share.  My positive voice is often neutralised by those with opposing outlooks and that is the way it should be, because all things find balance eventually.  Where I find issue is with people who use their powers of manipulation to lie and deceive, at others expense, for their own gain.  I'm totally in this for the money myself and understand that to increase ones wealth another must equally lose theirs. That is the game, in this supposed free market, one which we have entered through choice and are duty bound to embrace loss the same way we would success.  

Active Mining is a strange beast because on one hand we all see enormous potential but on the other we see a company which is ill managed and unprofessional.  We have a CEO who has displayed characteristics unbecoming of such a role and yet there is unlikely to be one person here who would maintain that all hope is lost, even those of us who are also misrepresented as being 'trolls'.

Ken is a genuine and hard working person who is most certainly trying his very best to make this project work and is undeserved of the taunts and general abuse levelled toward him.  Constructive criticism is healthy and should promote discussion which ought to be the main purpose of this thread but there are too many here who are blinded by their own greed.  Such is the way and sadly it may always be the case, but I reach out to those who posses reason and request they make an effort to promote discussion over judgement.

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[theBishop]

Your imagination serves you well and your instinct is spot on.  Ken will most certainly be holding back until after we are trading. 

Why?
Would you somehow benefit trading BEFORE shipments?
If there is hardware shipping, wouldn't that legitimize the entire business and bring in many more customers and revenue to the shareholders?
Wouldn't forcing you to watch your money grow before he let you sell out be more beneficial to him and you?

Understand that the logical solution is not always the actual outcome.

[theBishop]

No.  zumzero.  You like?

Lol, i was pretty ure you were jasun (or Jasun).  RU jasun 2?

I have exchanged PM's with this Jasun person so I know it's not me and I have been open about my zumzero identity.   One thing I would say about Jasun is that I wish he would post more often because he is clearly knowledgeable and has previously shared his optimism for ActM.

[Jasun7211]

Wow I check in and I get love asap.  I'm prepping to go to Miami for the btc confrence.  Plus my day job, fix cell ohones and bartend on the side.  I'm a mess.  But all you have to do is research some quotes Ken made about 10 years ago he made in some newspapers.  I liken Ken to a guy named Karl Denninger in background and moral stance.   But I gotta deal with depriveds assets as well as crypto trade bs as a shareholder.   

Just remember

Not having the shares tradeable is not Kens fault.  If bitfunder and BTC tc were still up this would not be an issue.  These past few months have seen changes in the btc ecosystem faster than anything I have expierenced...to the point Kanye is making a coin..lol. 

Let Ken do his thing and I really feel something similar to what any good grandma says.   "Baby all good things take time to make"   so who's going to Miami.  Zummy is that you.....hey we still on?  Btw ill never change my name.  I'm too vein for that.  If I got banned I'd make a similar name.   Ain't nobody gots time fo dat.

[Jasun7211]

  I forgot to say that its nit just Ken having share issues.  My other mining shares and hash diffuculty shorting shares are not trading yet because the exchange hwsnt been built yet.   So actm has very small issues I n regards to trading.  The biz side, dk, but  in the meantime while theres no ticks to trade....we can use clicks to make some btc

 http://freebitco.in/?r=4260

[theBishop]

I am a man of my word and those 2btc are still there at 0.0005, so yes we are still on.  For those who may not remember, I made an open offer to anyone that I would be happy to finance a visit to Ken if I were able to turn a profit by being able to buy at 0.0005 (which I still maintain is not going to happen) and sell at a higher price to sponsor this visit.

Jasun, truth is I may be soon forced to cash in those 2btc as I have a cash flow problem coming up, however I am crossing my fingers that we can get on CT soon and will be able to sell a few shares anyway, meaning yes we are still on.

Edit:  lol, it has just occurred to me that if I get to sell any of my shares then those 2btc worth at 0.0005, as a purchase, most certainly won't happen!  It's fine though because I'll still be happy to finance your visit in that case.  I'm in Scotland so count me out, but Bargraphics says he'll be visiting Ken soon.  Makes sense that you both do it as a joint visit?

[drawingthesun]

No.  zumzero.  You like?

You were banned?

[theBishop]

I was given a two week ban for trolling following a rather distasteful row with VE.  I thought you guys knew this? StuartUk, VE, crumbs and myself all got the same treatment as far as I know which was an excellent move on the part of the mods who I congratulate for doing so.  It means that finally they will take action against trolls which frees up this message board somewhat and allows for discussion.  Looking back at this last weeks posts, I'd say it was an absolute success!  


Edit:  at the end of the day the mods on this forum are very anti-censorship and rightfully so, but were forced to intervene because it got so out of hand. 

[Jasun7211]

Don't worry about it brotha.  Hey if not then not we are all in similar straights.  We'll all work together. My I'm hoping btc will get to 2k so all ill need is about 1...but there goes my surprise.  Haha.  I'd love to have a big shareholders party in a year or so if it all works out like how things are planned.   The only thing I worry about a little is some alphabet agency getting after Ken since btc is getting so much buzz and credibility by the week, as they see btc as a threat to the debt based fiat hegemony.    Today is a milestone day for us bitcoiners......Porn.com now accepts btc.  This for me is a huge event.....not because I love DDs....but the most lucrative business for the credit card payment processing companies is porn.  This will spread btc use faster than  HIV in a Holland whore house......the sad part is people pay for porn. Hahah.  But porn companies need bitcoin to eliminate chargebacks as they kill everyone's cash flow.  This is great news for btc that no one is talking about.  I expect a slow erection in the btc price than a blowoff ejaculation once it hits critical mass in the porn industry...I'd give it a few mos.

[DoloresMaze]

I was given a two week ban for trolling following a rather distasteful row with VE.  I thought you guys knew this? StuartUk, VE, crumbs and myself all got the same treatment as far as I know which was an excellent move on the part of the mods who I congratulate for doing so.  It means that finally they will take action against trolls which frees up this message board somewhat and allows for discussion.  Looking back at this last weeks posts, I'd say it was an absolute success!  


Edit:  at the end of the day the mods on this forum are very anti-censorship and rightfully so, but were forced to intervene because it got so out of hand.  

You clearly haven't learned your lesson, zumzishop.  Ban evasion is a serious crime.  As admirable as I find your ass-sucking and toadying up to the mads to be, I'm afraid you'll nevertheless need to remove yourself from this forum for 2 (two) whole weeks before I lift your ban.

I don't want to have to worn you again.  You are on the road to ruin, young man; straighten up and fly right.

[JoTheKhan]

I was given a two week ban for trolling following a rather distasteful row with VE.  I thought you guys knew this? StuartUk, VE, crumbs and myself all got the same treatment as far as I know which was an excellent move on the part of the mods who I congratulate for doing so.  It means that finally they will take action against trolls which frees up this message board somewhat and allows for discussion.  Looking back at this last weeks posts, I'd say it was an absolute success!  


Edit:  at the end of the day the mods on this forum are very anti-censorship and rightfully so, but were forced to intervene because it got so out of hand.  

You clearly haven't learned your lesson, zumzishop.  Ban evasion is a serious crime.  As admirable as I find your ass-sucking and toadying up to the mads to be, I'm afraid you'll nevertheless need to remove yourself from this forum for 2 (two) whole weeks before I lift your ban.

I don't want to have to worn you again.  You are on the road to ruin, young man; straighten up and fly right.

It's not a crime. It can't be prosecuted against in any court of law in any country (maybe China? Idk what they are doing over there) on this planet.

[Vigil]

When do the ActiveMining IRC chats take place?

[Jasun7211]

Where's VE these days

[DoloresMaze]

I was given a two week ban for trolling following a rather distasteful row with VE.  I thought you guys knew this? StuartUk, VE, crumbs and myself all got the same treatment as far as I know which was an excellent move on the part of the mods who I congratulate for doing so.  It means that finally they will take action against trolls which frees up this message board somewhat and allows for discussion.  Looking back at this last weeks posts, I'd say it was an absolute success!  


Edit:  at the end of the day the mods on this forum are very anti-censorship and rightfully so, but were forced to intervene because it got so out of hand.  

You clearly haven't learned your lesson, zumzishop.  Ban evasion is a serious crime.  As admirable as I find your ass-sucking and toadying up to the mads to be, I'm afraid you'll nevertheless need to remove yourself from this forum for 2 (two) whole weeks before I lift your ban.

I don't want to have to worn you again.  You are on the road to ruin, young man; straighten up and fly right.

It's not a crime. It can't be prosecuted against in any court of law in any country (maybe China? Idk what they are doing over there) on this planet.

Oh, how wrong you are, JoTheKahn, how wrong you are!
Most of the hacking cases pivot on "unauthorized access to computers and networks."  Aaron Swartz hung himself over it, Weev is doing time for it.  It's a crime if someone decides to prosecute - the laws are there, they're real, and people should know that they exist :/
But that's not what i was talking about.  I meant in a "breaks forum rules" sense. 

[JoTheKhan]

I was given a two week ban for trolling following a rather distasteful row with VE.  I thought you guys knew this? StuartUk, VE, crumbs and myself all got the same treatment as far as I know which was an excellent move on the part of the mods who I congratulate for doing so.  It means that finally they will take action against trolls which frees up this message board somewhat and allows for discussion.  Looking back at this last weeks posts, I'd say it was an absolute success!  


Edit:  at the end of the day the mods on this forum are very anti-censorship and rightfully so, but were forced to intervene because it got so out of hand.  

You clearly haven't learned your lesson, zumzishop.  Ban evasion is a serious crime.  As admirable as I find your ass-sucking and toadying up to the mads to be, I'm afraid you'll nevertheless need to remove yourself from this forum for 2 (two) whole weeks before I lift your ban.

I don't want to have to worn you again.  You are on the road to ruin, young man; straighten up and fly right.

It's not a crime. It can't be prosecuted against in any court of law in any country (maybe China? Idk what they are doing over there) on this planet.

Oh, how wrong you are, JoTheKahn, how wrong you are!
Most of the hacking cases pivot on "unauthorized access to computers and networks."  Aaron Swartz hung himself over it, Weev is doing time for it.  It's a crime if someone decides to prosecute - the laws are there, they're real, and people should know that they exist :/
But that's not what i was talking about.  I meant in a "breaks forum rules" sense. 

Aaron Swartz hacked and broke actual laws. It's not a criminal offense to get banned from a forum and then make a new account on it. They can ban you again but they can't call the cops on you.

[DoloresMaze]

I was given a two week ban for trolling following a rather distasteful row with VE.  I thought you guys knew this? StuartUk, VE, crumbs and myself all got the same treatment as far as I know which was an excellent move on the part of the mods who I congratulate for doing so.  It means that finally they will take action against trolls which frees up this message board somewhat and allows for discussion.  Looking back at this last weeks posts, I'd say it was an absolute success!  


Edit:  at the end of the day the mods on this forum are very anti-censorship and rightfully so, but were forced to intervene because it got so out of hand.  

You clearly haven't learned your lesson, zumzishop.  Ban evasion is a serious crime.  As admirable as I find your ass-sucking and toadying up to the mads to be, I'm afraid you'll nevertheless need to remove yourself from this forum for 2 (two) whole weeks before I lift your ban.

I don't want to have to worn you again.  You are on the road to ruin, young man; straighten up and fly right.

It's not a crime. It can't be prosecuted against in any court of law in any country (maybe China? Idk what they are doing over there) on this planet.

Oh, how wrong you are, JoTheKahn, how wrong you are!
Most of the hacking cases pivot on "unauthorized access to computers and networks."  Aaron Swartz hung himself over it, Weev is doing time for it.  It's a crime if someone decides to prosecute - the laws are there, they're real, and people should know that they exist :/
But that's not what i was talking about.  I meant in a "breaks forum rules" sense.  

Aaron Swartz hacked and broke actual laws. It's not a criminal offense to get banned from a forum and then make a new account on it. They can ban you again but they can't call the cops on you.

What do you think hacking is?  The actual laws broken were "unauthorized access to computers and computer networks."  If you know that you don't belong on a system (like being B&), and you get on the system anyway (unlawful access), you could be V&.  Find out about that, it's kind of creepy.  Google it.
Again, I'm not saying that anyone will go after some kid d*cking around on a forum, but the laws are there.  No need to bring China into this.

*Getting B& is not a crime, but logging on after being banned is.  Just because something is a crime doesn't mean that you will surely get punished, only that you *could*, if things go wrong.  And i'm pretty sure you knew what i meant without me typing an essay about it.

[VinceSamios]

That 1Nbq...SeX address is definitely KNC gear btw.

[funkymunky]

That 1Nbq...SeX address is definitely KNC gear btw.

I agree with this unfortunately!! 

[VinceSamios]

Just adding some positive vibes...

Just crunching some numbers here...

$6,300,000 in sales
Over $1,000,000 from the Avalon refunds
Let's assume everything else has been spent.

Those sales would total around 780,000 GH (based on an average of $8/gh cost price? Big (conservative) guess here.)
Let's assume hardware cost is about $1/gh to produce - that seems to be a pretty reasonable number - bugger it, let's go conservative at $2/GH, meh, an additional 100% margin for error on conservative numbers.

$1.56mil is needed to fulfill pre-orders, which leaves ActM with $5.74mil capital.

$5.74mil spent on miners at $2/gh = 2.870 petahash

If we could get that online within a month we'd have 10% network share. Within two months we'd have 5% network share. Within 3 months 2.5% network share.
or... 360 btc/day, 180btc/day or 90btc/day respectively.

Lets say 90BTC/day - If this is paid 100% on dividends it's 0.000063btc/share/week until the first 0.0025 is paid out. Which it would within 9 months if ActM can hold 2.5% network share.

Can ActM hold network share? Well, there is only one other company we know of that is selling shovels and also mining with them, that's ASICMiner. These two companies can race to the bottom faster than any other miner, including manufacturer-miners who aren't selling hardware. In theory ActM can therefore gain network share very quickly. In theory with even just 90btc/day revenue ActM can add 36TH/day, or 1PH/month. Not including hashrate increases from sales.

I've separately calculated the chip production cost for ActM to be around $0.5/GH which makes the $/GH estimates above fairly conservative.

I almost wasn't going to bother with a best case estimate but what the hell, this place is low on positivity and christmas cheer. It's even low on pessimistic realism.

10% network share would be 0.0002769/share/week - it would take 9 weeks at that rate to pay out 0.0025 btc - OR - 144TH/day (4.3PH/month) - plus $5mil/month in hardware sales - total = 6.8PH/month
With those numbers we could rapidly grow to 20% network share which would bring us about 520 BTC/day - allowing us to add 200+TH/day or around 6.2PH/month (not including hardware sales)

TLDR;
We will have chips
We will have more pre-orders (and they will exceed order cancellations)
We will have $5.7mil+ to blow on hashrate
We will have x% market share
We will get our 0.0025 back within a year

It's just a matter of when, although even 3 months from now would make every bitching little kid in this thread very happy.

[funkymunky]

Nice one Vince 

There's some really good and realistic numbers there for us!!