Devcoin

[markm]

Ahhh I think I understand devcoin a bit better now. I won't get devcoin for writing a song but if I made like a website where musicians could collabarate on open source music (like github with an in browser DAW?)  that would be the 'foundation' of a devcoin project right?

I think songs qualify probably, just as novels would. If you write a score, with words to go with, that really is source code isn't it? The shenanigans I refer to in my previous post are more to do with the people who take your score and words, and run voice synthesisers and virtual instruments to produce a "recording" of your song as performed by their virtual singers and instruments, and then try to pass off that "recording" as open source without providing the code - the virtual singers and instruments and your score and words - that "recording" was compiled from...

-MarkM-

[Unthinkingbit]

How do I get devcoins for writing music?

Hi Slushpuppy,

If you have music online, please post a link to it.

You can get devcoins for lyrics by posting them on devtome:
http://devtome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Earn_Devcoins_by_Writing

I have not seen any good way of advertising on pure audio files. There are; however, many music videos on youtube, and those could earn ad money. There is very little open source music on youtube, the only creative commons music video I could find after searching for a while is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYzblWY5538

A devtome youtube account could be created, and embedded open source music videos would be given devcoins. Full motion video would not be required, a simple picture would suffice. If there is a better way of making some money from music, that would be used instead; youtube is simply a way I've seen that works. Text is almost automatically of use to someone, however music must have an appeal for people to listen to it, so music videos would have to pass some kind of test of popularity or quality to be given devcoins.

Because music requires more bandwidth than text, and it is more complicated to judge, music does not get devcoins yet. It's a long term goal, if and when there's more interest for open source music, then bounties will be posted to set up some kind of music library and payout system.

[Unthinkingbit]

The round 15 devtome word earnings are pasted below and at:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/devtome_bounty_15.csv

121Pb2BBrU7C61vBdWCKVuFFmaEZr6xFAX-Knotwork,2-Word Count(http://devtome.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:Knotwork&action=edit)
17vec4jQGCzMEsTnivizHPaowE715tu2CB-Unthinkingbit,14-Word Count(http://devtome.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:Unthinkingbit&action=edit)

They are generated by tomecount.py:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/tomecount.py

The word counts for each writer are at:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/tomecount.csv

The word earnings were generated on 2012-09-08, and the total word counts follow below.

Collated Word Count: 53,721
Collated Weighted Word Count: 16,116
Images: 8
Original Word Count: 93,035
Total Word Count: 146,756
Total Weighted Word Count: 109,231

From statistics:
http://devtome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Statistics

Views total: 52,596
Content pages: 112

[Unthinkingbit]

The round 15 receiver files have been uploaded to:
http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/receiver_15.csv
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/receiver_15.csv
http://devcoinblockexplorer.info/receiver/receiver_15.csv

The account file is at:
https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/blob/master/account_15.csv

People on that list will start getting those coins in round 15, starting at block 60,000.  The procedure for generating the receiver files is at:
http://www.devtome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Devcoin#Generating_the_Files

The next bounties will go into round 16.

[jasinlee]

So something I was wondering, I see your DVB on cryptostocks.com quadrupled in price. How is the DVB distributed to the developers from the stocks?

[Unthinkingbit]

So something I was wondering, I see your DVB on cryptostocks.com quadrupled in price. How is the DVB distributed to the developers from the stocks?

To clarify, devcoin companies are not required to donate to developers in order to get the devcoin company bounty. They can if they want to, but it's not required.

Devcoin companies already help devcoin by giving investors more reason to hold devcoins. If devcoin companies want to help out developers more, an easy way is to keep a large float in devcoins, preferably in a secure offline wallet. The more devcoins a company holds off the market, the higher the market price of devcoins, and so the higher the value of devcoins that the developers have been given.

[jasinlee]

Gotcha, that makes sense, thank you for clarifying.

[DannyM]

So do you run the DVB stock, UnthinkingBit? It's not clear what activity is generating the bounty that this assets pays in dividends. Thanks.

[Unthinkingbit]

So do you run the DVB stock, UnthinkingBit? It's not clear what activity is generating the bounty that this assets pays in dividends. Thanks.

I do not run the DVB stock, Icoin does. I do not work for DVB or know anything about it beyond the public information. I bought around 70,000 shares.

At this time I do not work for any devcoin businesses. I currently maintain the accounting scripts, administrate, and write articles for devtome:
http://devtome.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:Unthinkingbit

[Unthinkingbit]

The first person who tries out Kumala's devcoin lottery:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110810.0

and posts a description of their experience at least 10 words long, along with a devcoin address, in this thread will get 2/5 of a generation share. The second person who does will get 1/5 of a generation share.

[jasinlee]

Submitting my information to it now. I will post a review in a few minutes.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110810.msg1210459

Submitted review of the site. Will purchase my tickets when confirmations clear.

[Unthinkingbit]

Submitting my information to it now. I will post a review in a few minutes.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110810.msg1210459

Submitted review of the site. Will purchase my tickets when confirmations clear.

A couple of things, I have not actually made a purchase with the dvc yet on the lotto (waiting on confirmations) but you may want to have someone go through and offer translations for everything to english as many of your users will speak english or a version of it. And then add a option to change the language site wide. I would translate the site for you for free if that will assist. I think the entire setup is very simple, the site color scheme probably needs to be changed though as the bootstrap you are using is in use by many other sites. Just pick a different color in my opinion. Also, the section where you choose the numbers for the lottery, you should have a random quick pick. And probably a section to submit for multiple tickets at once (I didnt notice one) where you can enter lets say 100,000 devcoins and have it buy up lots of random tickets for the person. I will be submitting for my tickets when the confirmations clear.

Thanks for the description. It is excellent, and at 178 words it is also way more than enough You'll get 2/5 of a generation share in round 16.

If you ever want to write more and get more devcoins, you can write reviews, or anything else, on devtome:
http://devtome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Earn_Devcoins_by_Writing

[Kumala]

Is there a limit on how many coins I can withdraw from the wallet in one transaction? Tried sending 32,000,000 but I got the error message "Invalid amount". Had to break it down to 20000000 and 12000000.

[Unthinkingbit]

Is there a limit on how many coins I can withdraw from the wallet in one transaction? Tried sending 32,000,000 but I got the error message "Invalid amount". Had to break it down to 20000000 and 12000000.

No withdrawal limit was added in the changes to make devcoin:
http://devtome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Devcoin

I speculate that maybe there's some sanity checking bitcoin code to stop people from withdrawing more than 21,000,000; the maximum possible number of bitcoins:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Blocks

[markm]

I grepped the source code.

In wallet.cpp is outputs that if the amount is less than zero.

In rpc.cpp sure enough it checks for 21 million, which we didn't catch because it should have been using a defined constant there not a number hardcoded at that very spot.

Code:

int64 AmountFromValue(const Value& value)
{
    double dAmount = value.get_real();
    if (dAmount <= 0.0 || dAmount > 21000000.0)
        throw JSONRPCError(-3, "Invalid amount");
    int64 nAmount = roundint64(dAmount * COIN);
    if (!MoneyRange(nAmount))
        throw JSONRPCError(-3, "Invalid amount");
    return nAmount;
}

So, Unthinkingbit, gimme a name to name the constant and a value to assign to it. Maybe even guidance as to where such a constant ought to be defined.

Maybe that function MoneyRange needs to be looked at too...

main.h:inline bool MoneyRange(int64 nValue) { return (nValue >= 0 && nValue <= MAX_MONEY); }

Nope it uses a constant we presumably already defined. Maybe we need to use the same constant or a multiple or division of it in AmountFromValue.

(Maybe all *coin code should so each alt doesn't run into same problem if it happens to have more coins than bitcoin as its max.)

-MarkM-

[Unthinkingbit]

I grepped the source code.
..

Code:

int64 AmountFromValue(const Value& value)
{
    double dAmount = value.get_real();
    if (dAmount <= 0.0 || dAmount > 21000000.0)
        throw JSONRPCError(-3, "Invalid amount");
    int64 nAmount = roundint64(dAmount * COIN);
    if (!MoneyRange(nAmount))
        throw JSONRPCError(-3, "Invalid amount");
    return nAmount;
}

So, Unthinkingbit, gimme a name to name the constant and a value to assign to it. Maybe even guidance as to where such a constant ought to be defined.

Maybe that function MoneyRange needs to be looked at too...

main.h:inline bool MoneyRange(int64 nValue) { return (nValue >= 0 && nValue <= MAX_MONEY); }

Nope it uses a constant we presumably already defined. Maybe we need to use the same constant or a multiple or division of it in AmountFromValue.

(Maybe all *coin code should so each alt doesn't run into same problem if it happens to have more coins than bitcoin as its max.)

I agree, the 21000000.0 in AmountFromValue should be changed to MAX_MONEY. We multiplied MAX_MONEY by a thousand:

Code:

//static const int64 MAX_MONEY = 21000000 * COIN;
static const int64 MAX_MONEY = 21000000000 * COIN;

so any code using MAX_MONEY will work correctly.

This can be worked around, so there's no need to immediately update the galactic files source. Please add it to the next version.

[markm]

Okay. I also did a grep for 21000000 to check for any other places it might be hard-coded. Only found these two (definition of MAX_MONEY and this place we are about to fix).

The comparison we are about to fix is to a real or double or something - some kind of floating point number. Is it okay to just plug in MAX_MONEY instead of 21000000.0 or should an explicit type-casting be used? (In 'C' I believe casting is automatic but I am not really familiar with C++ enough to know if/when it violates C traditions. Plus maybe could be even a matter of style or making clear to future programmers less familiar with C what we are doing. Also, I have seen FellowTraveler type stuff on IRC implying the whole matter of casting can get really really hairy/scary in C++ since people can define new types that overlay old types and so on. I don't even know what type the calculation is really using, could be weird_bitcoin_reals for all I know not a standard type at all.)

-MarkM-

[Unthinkingbit]

The comparison we are about to fix is to a real or double or something - some kind of floating point number. Is it okay to just plug in MAX_MONEY instead of 21000000.0 or should an explicit type-casting be used? (In 'C' I believe casting is automatic but I am not really familiar with C++ enough to know if/when it violates C traditions. Plus maybe could be even a matter of style or making clear to future programmers less familiar with C what we are doing. Also, I have seen FellowTraveler type stuff on IRC implying the whole matter of casting can get really really hairy/scary in C++ since people can define new types that overlay old types and so on. I don't even know what type the calculation is really using, could be weird_bitcoin_reals for all I know not a standard type at all.)

Good point, it's using a real, rather the int type of MAX_MONEY. Also, when I looked at it again, I saw that it used just 21000000.0 and not 21000000.0 * COIN, so using MAX_MONEY would be an error. Overall, the safest thing to do is to just change 21000000.0 to 21000000000.0. It's the same effort as changing to MAX_MONEY, and it's certain not to run into a conversion error, or leave the door open to some kind of overflow attack. The change would be, replace the line:

Code:

    if (dAmount <= 0.0 || dAmount > 21000000.0)

with

Code:

//    if (dAmount <= 0.0 || dAmount > 21000000.0)
    if (dAmount <= 0.0 || dAmount > 21000000000.0)

[Icoin]

So something I was wondering, I see your DVB on cryptostocks.com quadrupled in price. How is the DVB distributed to the developers from the stocks?

The procedure for becomming a DVB project is simple. You can create a new project @ glari.ch and present your idea detailed. This way your project can be reviewed by the shareholders. By now we standby for the release of the voting function @ cryptostocks.com but after integration, shareholders become able to vote for projects.

When the project passes the voting, funds for the enlisting of the project @ cryptostocks.com are granted from DVB to the project. The project gets the ticker function @ glari.ch

[Unthinkingbit]

When the devcoin business bounty was first announced:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg649844#msg649844

it had five decreasing awards, similar to the standard bounty. The standard bounty is meant for services where we only need one, but are willing to pay for four so that we're sure to have at least one running. However, for businesses, each new business adds to the value of devcoin.

Therefore, I propose expanding the business bounty from five awards in both the mining and non mining category to twelve in both. That would change the bounty to 6 generation shares for the first two businesses, 5 for the next two, then 4, then 3, then 2, and one for the last two. This change would be retroactive, so any previous business awards would be topped up in the next round.

Are there any objections to expanding the business bounty to twelve awards?

Edit: Two mining business awards have been sent:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg1141002#msg1141002
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg2093428#msg2093428

two five share awards remain.