Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution.

[rmines]

Obama administration officials are very concerned the Russians are not being truthful when they say their forces near Ukraine's eastern and southern borders are merely there for training exercises.

I hope these allegations are false, I don't think the UN and the US can remain idle and only take mild sanctions if Russia would start invading other parts of Ukraine.

[Rassah]

I quite understand where that hate comes from. My return question would be: what are Russians to hate, then? My grandmother and here family got a first-hand experience of the Gulag system. She survived, her sister and her mother didn't.

They could hate Russia? Seems a lot of bad stuff has been coming out of that area. Maybe it's something with the culture. I don't know, but I don't see things improving much since Tsarist or Soviet rule. Perhaps people have been under authoritarian rule for so long that they thing it's the normal and better way to live? *shrug*

should they hate Germany

It's ok for everyone to hate Germany. They kinda deserved it with Hitler   (and Ukraine was stuck fighting on two fronts, Nazis killing Ukrainians because they were in the way of Russia, and Russians killing Ukrainians because they considered joining Nazis, thinking they were a better option than Soviets... Seriously, think about it, Ukrainians thought Nazis were a better option than Soviets -.-

Revolution in Russia happened under circumstances much like the ones unfurling in Ukraine. The people were fed up with something (in case of Russia, WWI), but those who capitalised on that didn't have people's interests at heart.

I am quite aware and quite concerned about that too. I think the US revolution was more of a fluke in world history, with most other revolutions typically turning for the worse. Then again, Ukraine was practically becoming a dictatorship, and the people there are decent, so I'm not sure if it could get worse than where it was going.

You mention the starvation. It wasn't limited to Ukraine. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4_%D0%B2_%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A0_%281932%E2%80%941933%29 It's a despicable propaganda dividing that tragedy into Ukraine and everyone else. Again, my great-great-grandmother (in the same line as my repressed grandmother) died from hunger.

I know, but it's not propaganda. Yes, the hunger extended to other regions as well, but Ukraine being the breadbasket, and at the time refusing to form collectives or give up its produce, I think it was subjected to it the worst. Besides starvation, a lot of people were also killed, just in a line-up-and-shoot style, when they refused to give away all their farm stuff and the military rolled in to confiscate it. Lately it seems the propaganda has mainly been from Russia, trying to claim that it wasn't that big of a deal (despite something like $3 to $6 million dying in Ukraine alone). My grandfather was a university student when that was going on, and he remembers seeing dead bodies on the street quite often. It dehumanized everyone to the point that if someone was killed by some accident, no one even looked or cared.

Red Army didn't come out of nowhere, but it was not the only army on the territory of Russia to fight for its future, or did you forget the Civil War?

Wasn't the Civil War the fight between Red Army Bolsheviks, and White Army Mensheviks? My early Soviet history is mostly from the time I learned it in Soviet Union, plus whatever little my parents told me, so I'm at a severe disadvantage there.

Russia does not have its sights on Ukraine, not even on the territories that Lenin gave to Ukraine in 1922-24.
What happened in Crimea was not some whim of Russian politics, it was a process (or a volcano) that was brewing on a a backburner ever since 1954, and with an accelerating force since 1991. It was something that was going to happen sooner or later, and the events in Kiev were the releasing factor. And if Russia didn't act as a guarantor of peace, being there in the background, it might have gone much more violent and with bloodshed.

I don't disagree. Frankly, I don't see what the hoopla is about Crimea wanting to leave. It was Russian, it is inhabited by mostly Russians, and it wants to go back to Russia. Who cares. My main two concerns are that I'm not so sure that Crimea would do better under Russian rule (which I really see as more of a fledgeling theocratic totalitarianism than democracy), instead of becoming an independent republic with economic trade with both Ukraine and Russia, and the second concern is about all the anti-Ukrainian propaganda coming out of Russia. Sure, the overthrow of government wasn't legal, and the current government is not legal, but law is a product of government authority, and is DOES NOT mean the same thing as moral or ethical. Yanukovich's rule was neither moral nor ethical (nor democratic at the end). Regardless of how he was taken down, it was a good thing that he was. My overall position is strict antiauthoritarian, so it doesn't really matter to me whether something was "legal" or not. If someone is trying to be a dictator, kick his ass out by any means necessary.

Perhaps the reason there is so much russian propaganda about Ukraine being taken over illegally by fascists, or how the protestors (some of whom I know personally) were evil and violent, while the government were just innocent defenders, or how Ukrainians are scared of the fascists and fleeing the country into Russia (despite the border crossing being empty), or how Ukrainians are attacking and killing innocent Russians (despite most of them not giving a shit, and many speaking Russian as their first language), is because Russia is afraid that their own people might rise up and revolt against their government, which has been doing a lot of the same type of evil BS that Yanukovich got into.

[LostDutchman]

Check out this Google search for images of Putin and his biker buddies, The Night Wolves"

https://www.google.com/search?q=putin+night+wolves&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&biw=1288&bih=669&tbm=isch&imgil=gmqt79vC4icXYM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcRpYYSAqKNRkx_t9NttxhuHE95qlLUkuJBosolBh72pJAnB4oAong%253B634%253B423%253BLyxszy2wAvJtoM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%25252Fnews%25252Farticle-1369485%25252FVladimir-Putin-polishes-macho-image-Night-Wolves-Belgrade.html&source=iu&usg=__TggdSiJ6C0TCSiZI_8JpGGQJs98%3D&sa=X&ei=XI8sU46UC8fd2QWQ2IHIBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CC0Q9QEwAQ#facrc=_&imgrc=gmqt79vC4icXYM%253A%3BLyxszy2wAvJtoM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi.dailymail.co.uk%252Fi%252Fpix%252F2011%252F03%252F24%252Farticle-1369485-0B4FFF9100000578-679_634x423.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%252Fnews%252Farticle-1369485%252FVladimir-Putin-polishes-macho-image-Night-Wolves-Belgrade.html%3B634%3B423

The Night Wolves:

http://nightwolves.info/en/main

Interesting, eh?

My $.02.

[Nemo1024]

They could hate Russia? Seems a lot of bad stuff has been coming out of that area. Maybe it's something with the culture. I don't know, but I don't see things improving much since Tsarist or Soviet rule. Perhaps people have been under authoritarian rule for so long that they thing it's the normal and better way to live? *shrug*

Hate is too strong a word. Many Russians do disapprove of what is happening in the country.
Authoritarian rule is the best form of rule, when a country is under external threat. Russia just didn't have a chance to have normal foreign relations, pretty much ever.
The current estrangement and sanctions will only enforce authoritarian rule for an even longer period into the future.

I know, but it's not propaganda. Yes, the hunger extended to other regions as well, but Ukraine being the breadbasket, and at the time refusing to form collectives or give up its produce, I think it was subjected to it the worst. Besides starvation, a lot of people were also killed, just in a line-up-and-shoot style, when they refused to give away all their farm stuff and the military rolled in to confiscate it. Lately it seems the propaganda has mainly been from Russia, trying to claim that it wasn't that big of a deal (despite something like $3 to $6 million dying in Ukraine alone). My grandfather was a university student when that was going on, and he remembers seeing dead bodies on the street quite often. It dehumanized everyone to the point that if someone was killed by some accident, no one even looked or cared.

And the same applied to Central Russia. My grandmother's father was labelled as "kulak" and got his land plot and house that he was building with his own hands confiscated at gun point. He died a couple of years after that from illness and malnutrition.

Wasn't the Civil War the fight between Red Army Bolsheviks, and White Army Mensheviks? My early Soviet history is mostly from the time I learned it in Soviet Union, plus whatever little my parents told me, so I'm at a severe disadvantage there.

Basically, there was no organised White Army as such. There were officers from the Russian Army and men who remained loyal to them. They had different goals and agendas, where there even was an attempt at proclaiming an independent country in the Far East of Russia (not without Japanese help). If they were better coordinated, the whole of the USSR fiasco could have been avoided, for they were surely better trained and equipped than the Red Army.
You might find this read interesting (and it pertains to Ukraine as well):
http://www.grandars.ru/shkola/istoriya-rossii/grazhdanskaya-voyna.html

B пoлитичecкoй бopьбe пpoтив coвeтcкoй влacти кoнcoлидиpoвaлиcь двa пoлитичecкиx движeния:

    дeмoкpaтичecкaя кoнтppeвoлюция c лoзyнгaми вoзвpaтa пoлитичecкoй влacти Учpeдитeльнoмy coбpaнию и вoccтaнoвлeния зaвoeвaний Фeвpaльcкoй (1917 г.) peвoлюции (мнoгиe эcepы и мeньшeвики выcтyпaли зa yтвepждeниe coвeтcкoй влacти в Poccии, нo бeз бoльшeвикoв (“Зa Coвeты бeз бoльшeвикoв”));
    бeлoe движeниe c лoзyнгaми “нeпpeдpeшeния гocyдapcтвeннoгo cтpoя” и ликвидaции coвeтcкoй влacти. Этo нaпpaвлeниe cтaвилo пoд yгpoзy нe тoлькo oктябpьcкиe, нo и фeвpaльcкиe зaвoeвaния. Кoнтppeвoлюциoннoe бeлoe движeниe нe былo oднopoднo. Oнo включaлo в ceбя мoнapxиcтoв и либepaлoв-pecпyбликaнцeв, cтopoнникoв Учpeдитeльнoгo coбpaния и пpивepжeнцeв вoeннoй диктaтypы. B cpeдe “бeлыx” имeлиcь pacxoждeния и вo внeшнeпoлитичecкиx opиeнтиpax: oдни нaдeялиcь нa пoддepжкy Гepмaнии (aтaмaн Кpacнoв), дpyгиe — нa пoмoщь дepжaв Aнтaнты (Дeникин, Кoлчaк, Юдeнич). “Бeлыx” oбъeдинялa нeнaвиcть к coвeтcкoй влacти и бoльшeвикaм, cтpeмлeниe coxpaнить eдинyю и нeдeлимyю Poccию. Eдинoй пoлитичecкoй пpoгpaммы y ниx нe былo, вoeнныe в pyкoвoдcтвe “бeлoгo движeния” oттecнили нa втopoй плaн пoлитикoв. He былo и чeткoй coглacoвaннocти дeйcтвий мeждy ocнoвными гpyппиpoвкaми “бeлыx”. Лидepы poccийcкoй кoнтppeвoлюции coпepничaли и вpaждoвaли мeждy coбoй.

My main two concerns are that I'm not so sure that Crimea would do better under Russian rule (which I really see as more of a fledgeling theocratic totalitarianism than democracy), instead of becoming an independent republic with economic trade with both Ukraine and Russia,

I agree with you there. From an economic point of view, Crimea would have been better off independent. From political point, the Western countries would not have allowed Crimea to stay independent for long.
(And yes, it saddens me to see Russia being thrown into the Dark Ages by the abuse of religion. For the record, I am an atheist.)

and the second concern is about all the anti-Ukrainian propaganda coming out of Russia. Sure, the overthrow of government wasn't legal, and the current government is not legal, but law is a product of government authority, and is DOES NOT mean the same thing as moral or ethical. Yanukovich's rule was neither moral nor ethical (nor democratic at the end). Regardless of how he was taken down, it was a good thing that he was. My overall position is strict antiauthoritarian, so it doesn't really matter to me whether something was "legal" or not. If someone is trying to be a dictator, kick his ass out by any means necessary.

Perhaps the reason there is so much russian propaganda about Ukraine being taken over illegally by fascists, or how the protestors (some of whom I know personally) were evil and violent, while the government were just innocent defenders, or how Ukrainians are scared of the fascists and fleeing the country into Russia (despite the border crossing being empty), or how Ukrainians are attacking and killing innocent Russians (despite most of them not giving a shit, and many speaking Russian as their first language), is because Russia is afraid that their own people might rise up and revolt against their government, which has been doing a lot of the same type of evil BS that Yanukovich got into.

Some of these points will get a grudging (I don't like them, but they do make sense) nod of acknowledgement from me. My only consolation (at least from reading comments on quite a few of the mainstream Russian media) as that general public does not totally buy that propaganda. There is a lot of grumbling about the state of the Russian government, as long as that grumbling is not done by foreigners. Russians also seem to be mostly supportive of Ukrainians, but pity them exactly because they see parallels in the Ukrainian coup and the coup of 1917. (Oh, and no brown colours, please).

[PrintMule]

I may be biased, because ""Soviet Russia" seriously f'ed the hell out of my family, with father's side fighting for the White Army, and mother's side coming from a royal family that was subject to pogroms and exterminations. So, at least for me and my family, it was sorta personal.

I consider the foundation of Kievan Rus in ~800 AD to be the foundation of what is now Ukraine. No, Kievan Rus was not Russia. Yes, the territory was originally a bunch of tribes, but it was unified under Kievan Rus. Everything you mentioned from the foundation of Kievan Rus, until it's destruction by the tatars is right, but everything after 1150 AD is not.
The power in that area has shifted constantly after 1150 AD, but not because the people living in Ukraine became Polish or Russian or whatever. They were conquered and occupied by various countries (that tended to plunder their food and resources, and take them into slavery). They did not consider themselves to be a part of their occupying country.
At a certain point, Ukrainians tried to establish independence from the ever occupying forces by forming a self defense force and a paramilitary government, led by the cossacks. The people living there, regardless of being from different origins, did not want to be a part of Poland or Russia. Nor did they coonsider themselves just an "outskirts" of their occupying country.
Keep in mind, when some country invade a piece of land, that land already has its own people with their own identity living onit. Just because USSR occupied Ukraiine, does not mean Ukrainians considered themselves Soviets. Just as just because USA occupied Iraq, that didn't mean that Iraquis coonsidered themselves Americans. So, for a really long time, Ukraine and Ukrainians considered themselves their own people and country, up to the point where USSR took them over, and again since USSR broke apart.

My grandma was sent to Siberia as a child, for hard labor. Soviets took their homes. My grandma had her first child in cold, harsh Siberia. Yet I do not view russians as bad people. It's governments who are bad. And that government is  long gone. And USSR was not so bad as it's painted. You cannot have everyone happy. It's a balance, an often unfair one. You smirk about the possibility of human rights in USSR, but I'd say situation was the same in other countries, it's just they were better in creating an illusion of those rights. Same pressure, but in more elegant matter. Same propaganda machine. Same secret police, thought police, even.

And about Kievan Rus you are still partly wrong.
There was simply Ancient Rus who knows how long before 830 AD
Then in 860 Rurik came and took the throne
Then in 879 he dies, and his wingman Oleg moves for Kiev and in 882 ADDS IT TO THE ANCIENT RUS and REBRANDS the WHOLE THING as Kievan Rus
(it's like if Putin would tomorrow rebrand Russian Federation as Crimean Federation of Russia)
By that time there were no ukrainians, there was no such thing as Ukraine, there was no such self-identification amongst these people
It came much later on, with cossacks you mentioned (not specifically by that point, but still much later than 800,1000 or 1200 AD.

Finally about Crimea, when this mess started and local Crimean gov denounced new Kiev leadership, there were talks about Crimean independence, or at least increased authoritarian status. I rooted for that option. But to be blunt, I don't think they can survive on their own. They need water, gas, food, and plain money.

[hdbuck]

 

[Rigon]

 

Haha nice. 

[bryant.coleman]

My grandma was sent to Siberia as a child, for hard labor. Soviets took their homes. My grandma had her first child in cold, harsh Siberia.

Your grandma's ethnicity?

Yet I do not view Russians as bad people. It's governments who are bad. 

More than 3/4th of those who died in the gulags were ethnic Russians. Meanwhile, only a minority of the perpetrators were ethnic Russians.

[Barr]

It seems Ukraine's economy will significantly change in the nearest future after Ukraine's government announced a tender for creating and printing of a new national currency and G&D company won it. See this for more details, http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/kerry_urges_ukraine_reforms_in_call_to_russian_foreign_minister_20140316#comment-1294498663
As for me that will be a sensation because no one actually was informed about that and the info mysteriously disappeared from the original sources...

[Nemo1024]

Hmmm. It would not be the first time US was covertly in favour of drugs:
http://rt.com/politics/drugs-sanctions-us-russia-329/

Also, the last US ambassador (Jack Matlock) to SU makes a lot of sense in this interview:
http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/former_ambassador_russia_responding_to_years_of_us_hostility_20140320

“I think that what we have seen is a reaction, in many respects, to a long history of what the Russian government, the Russian president and many of the Russian people—most of them—feel has been a pattern of American activity that has been hostile to Russia and has simply disregarded their national interests,” former ambassador Jack Matlock told “Democracy Now!” on Thursday.

“They feel that having thrown off communism, having dispensed with the Soviet Empire, that the U.S. systematically, from the time it started expanding NATO to the east, without them, and then using NATO to carry out what they consider offensive actions about an—against another country—in this case, Serbia—a country which had not attacked any NATO member, and then detached territory from it—this is very relevant now to what we’re seeing happening in Crimea—and then continued to place bases in these countries, to move closer and closer to borders, and then to talk of taking Ukraine, most of whose people didn’t want to be a member of NATO, into NATO, and Georgia. Now, this began an intrusion into an area which the Russians are very sensitive.

“Now, how would Americans feel if some Russian or Chinese or even West European started putting bases in Mexico or in the Caribbean, or trying to form governments that were hostile to us? You know, we saw how we virtually went ballistic over Cuba. And I think that we have not been very attentive to what it takes to have a harmonious relationship with Russia.”

The world would have been a better place if people like he or Ron Paul were the US presidents, while people like Pozner - Russian presidents.

[Nemo1024]

It seems Ukraine's economy will significantly change in the nearest future after Ukraine's government announced a tender for creating and printing of a new national currency and G&D company won it. See this for more details, http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/kerry_urges_ukraine_reforms_in_call_to_russian_foreign_minister_20140316#comment-1294498663
As for me that will be a sensation because no one actually was informed about that and the info mysteriously disappeared from the original sources...

Copying it out, just in case. Time to buy more bitcoins?

‘…Secretary Kerry also drew attention to the broad multi-party
constitutional reform process already under way in the Ukrainian Rada…’

It’s the reforms I’d like to talk about… It’s a hell of a mess going on here in Ukraine you know. This country’s economy is on the brink of abyss, the money it desperately needs is nowhere to come from. All the help our partners from US and EU offer only looks good, however in fact the strings attached to it are such that Ukrainian people will be economically enslaved. Digging the truth in this country now is next to impossible – Mass Media distort information, the web contains a thousand and one rumors… To cut it short – it’s total chaos. However by chance, when I was reading some discussion forums where adequate people discuss the goings-on, I encountered a very intriguing piece of news, which concerns monetary reform our government is allegedly trying to secretly implement.

Well, I’ll try to tell everything in the right order. A reader of the Ukrainian Expert magazine asked its forum members to explain him the following. Here’s the link to the forum thread. http://expert.ua/forumn/showthread/0/2974/

Well, his wife, obviously a German native, received a letter from her relative in Germany who works for Giesecke & Devrient company engaged in designing banknotes. In his letter the man warns them to urgently change all their money from hryvnas (Ukrainian currency) to dollars and euros company because his company signed a contract with Ukrainian National Bank to design banknotes for a new currency. Allegedly there’s a monetary reform under way which includes dumping the old currency, its denomination and introduction of a new one so as to get the country out of the financial pique. He even sent some sketches of the new money as a proof! The forum thread contains all the links and images but just in case I post them here too.





The topic starter on the forum is really disarrayed, he even sent some letters to the members of Rada (Ukrainian parliament) so as to learn from them what was really going on. Not surprisingly he got no response from them. So, he started to dig on the forums.

Unfortunately experts have also ignored the topic. Only ordinary users – who were as well disarrayed – expressed their opinions.

Actually there were yet some other discussions on different forums. People talked about some news from the Bank of Lviv. Allegedly Ukraine’s National Bank ordered it to suspend all transactions with cash in hryvnas due to the introduction of a new currency. The news on the bank’s website wasn’t available for long, however people managed to make some screenshots.







Besides there’s a cached version of the Ukraine National Bank’s order. It’s in .pdf format.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:0RQLLouF9DEJ:www.banklviv.com/uk/individuals/rule/+&cd=2&hl=ru&ct=clnk&gl=ru

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PwFsL-oD2YgJ:www.banklviv.com/download.php%3Farticleid%3D188%26fileno%3D2+&cd=1&hl=ru&ct=clnk&gl=ru

Analyzing all these facts I have come to the conclusion that new government of our country is indeed in to something and it tries to conceal from the people what it’s doing. However I’ve got no waterproof evidence of it.

Hopefully someone of the truth-diggers here might be able to dig deeper… I guess many of the Ukrainians, including myself, will be sincerely grateful to you.

[PrintMule]

My grandma was sent to Siberia as a child, for hard labor. Soviets took their homes. My grandma had her first child in cold, harsh Siberia.

Your grandma's ethnicity?

Latvian with some parts of Polish. She was only 12. Hard labor was mostly logging. Her future husband was a German civil guy sent to Siberia, a craftsman.

Hmmm. It would not be the first time US was covertly in favour of drugs:
http://rt.com/politics/drugs-sanctions-us-russia-329/
Also, the last US ambassador to SU makes a lot of sense in this interview:
http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/former_ambassador_russia_responding_to_years_of_us_hostility_20140320
The world would have been a better place if people like he or Ron Paul were the US presidents, while people like Pozner - Russian presidents.

That's one of the biggest things which bother me. After US invasion Afghanistan has boosted it's drug production massively. When there were Taliban - drug production was much more limited.
I really hope that this is about money, and not about deliberately fucking over Russia and Europe.
Those poppy seeds should be dosed with napalm or chemicals. 80% of opium supply in the world? It's crazy!
And US argument is - people would be out of their jobs. WTF? APPALLING! They are working as death dealers now. Force them to grow potatoes instead.
I would even go so far as to offer to subsidize them for growing other stuff other than poppy, or for doing something completely different. And we could cover that with the budget money which goes on fighting drugs.

And yeah, Ron Paul even with his flaws, would look much better than Romney. Romney was such a joke, as if deliberately put there so Obama could win easily.

[myself]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-22/most-important-company-europe

[Balthazar]

Balthazar u can add that tatar is the second language in russian federation

Crimea will have three official languages: Russian, Ukrainian, Tatar

Be a lot easier if they just switched to English but doing so would put a lot of translatators out of business.

My $.02.

Just remembered about this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hd9hzS9KFk


 

[LostDutchman]

Balthazar u can add that tatar is the second language in russian federation

Crimea will have three official languages: Russian, Ukrainian, Tatar

Be a lot easier if they just switched to English but doing so would put a lot of translatators out of business.

My $.02.

Just remembered about this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hd9hzS9KFk

 

My, my; the theme from "Jurassic Park".

How creative.

My $.02.

[LostDutchman]

Hmmm. It would not be the first time US was covertly in favour of drugs:
http://rt.com/politics/drugs-sanctions-us-russia-329/

Also, the last US ambassador (Jack Matlock) to SU makes a lot of sense in this interview:
http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/former_ambassador_russia_responding_to_years_of_us_hostility_20140320

“I think that what we have seen is a reaction, in many respects, to a long history of what the Russian government, the Russian president and many of the Russian people—most of them—feel has been a pattern of American activity that has been hostile to Russia and has simply disregarded their national interests,” former ambassador Jack Matlock told “Democracy Now!” on Thursday.

“They feel that having thrown off communism, having dispensed with the Soviet Empire, that the U.S. systematically, from the time it started expanding NATO to the east, without them, and then using NATO to carry out what they consider offensive actions about an—against another country—in this case, Serbia—a country which had not attacked any NATO member, and then detached territory from it—this is very relevant now to what we’re seeing happening in Crimea—and then continued to place bases in these countries, to move closer and closer to borders, and then to talk of taking Ukraine, most of whose people didn’t want to be a member of NATO, into NATO, and Georgia. Now, this began an intrusion into an area which the Russians are very sensitive.

“Now, how would Americans feel if some Russian or Chinese or even West European started putting bases in Mexico or in the Caribbean, or trying to form governments that were hostile to us? You know, we saw how we virtually went ballistic over Cuba. And I think that we have not been very attentive to what it takes to have a harmonious relationship with Russia.”

The world would have been a better place if people like he or Ron Paul were the US presidents, while people like Pozner - Russian presidents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3V98lnJX1k

You can't win.

My $.02.

[Balthazar]

Stupid NATO allows them to destroy entire western civilization.

Just close the southern borders and they all will be eradicated by hunger. If they can't cultivate anything except poppy... Once time this will be the first statement of my presidential program

[bryant.coleman]

The Kuban Cossacks, who led the revolts against Poland, absolutely hate the Ukrainian state - even though, for all intensive purposes, these Kuban Cossacks are Ukrainian (as noted per their culture and customs).

Kuban Cossacks don't hate Ukrainians. However, they hate those radical pro-EU types from Lviv and Ternopil.

These areas (Lviv, Ternopil.etc) were originally part of Poland which were merged with Ukraine after the WW2. So the Kuban Cossacks identify the people who are native to these areas with ethnic Poles, their arch rivals.

[Nemo1024]

The Kuban Cossacks, who led the revolts against Poland, absolutely hate the Ukrainian state - even though, for all intensive purposes, these Kuban Cossacks are Ukrainian (as noted per their culture and customs).

Kuban Cossacks don't hate Ukrainians. However, they hate those radical pro-EU types from Lviv and Ternopil.

These areas (Lviv, Ternopil.etc) were originally part of Poland which were merged with Ukraine after the WW2. So the Kuban Cossacks identify the people who are native to these areas with ethnic Poles, their arch rivals.

Which begs the question, why not organise a referendum there, the results of which will surely indicate the wish for reunification with Poland. And I think the official Poland will not be opposed to this (though I read some comments from the ordinary Poles, who are not too keen on the idea). Everyone will be happy - NATO, EU, Poland, Cossacks. The only ones who will be unhappy, are the ethnic Russians living in that Western region, but they are a minority there, so they'll have to either live with the results or migrate.

[PrintMule]

The Kuban Cossacks, who led the revolts against Poland, absolutely hate the Ukrainian state - even though, for all intensive purposes, these Kuban Cossacks are Ukrainian (as noted per their culture and customs).

Kuban Cossacks don't hate Ukrainians. However, they hate those radical pro-EU types from Lviv and Ternopil.

These areas (Lviv, Ternopil.etc) were originally part of Poland which were merged with Ukraine after the WW2. So the Kuban Cossacks identify the people who are native to these areas with ethnic Poles, their arch rivals.

Which begs the question, why not organise a referendum there, the results of which will surely indicate the wish for reunification with Poland. And I think the official Poland will not be opposed to this (though I read some comments from the ordinary Poles, who are not too keen on the idea). Everyone will be happy - NATO, EU, Poland, Cossacks. The only ones who will be unhappy, are the ethnic Russians living in that Western region, but they are a minority there, so they'll have to either live with the results or migrate.

Why not just split the goddamn country into parts, and give them to neighboring countries?