ALLMINE INC - FPGA Cryptominer

[TheronB]

I’m happy to have your accountant argue with our accountant, but on our end we have to do what the professionals we pay to handle all this tell us. I’ve had to eat $500k in VAT before because someone “didn’t think we were supposed to charge it.”, and I won’t do that again.

I don't need an accountant, dealing with custom rules is my daily job. More details in DM

The point is the rules aren't going to be changed.  They are going to protect themselves from VAT charges.  Buyers can either suck it up and pay them or abandon their orders.  No need to continue.

[1714153906]

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[1714153906]

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[1714153906]

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[Iamtutut]

I’m happy to have your accountant argue with our accountant, but on our end we have to do what the professionals we pay to handle all this tell us. I’ve had to eat $500k in VAT before because someone “didn’t think we were supposed to charge it.”, and I won’t do that again.

I don't need an accountant, dealing with custom rules is my daily job. More details in DM

The point is the rules aren't going to be changed.  They are going to protect themselves from VAT charges.  Buyers can either suck it up and pay them or abandon their orders.  No need to continue.

Rules are by the law, and the law says VAT on a good is tio be charged only when the good is to enter the EU. The buyer has to pay the VAT, not the seller.

[NiklasFalk]

Hosting the card can be seen as a service, and I don't think that there are (EU) VAT on services you place in the "third world". I have never paid VAT on e.g. web hosting services (but that is not proof that I shouldn't).

VAT on imported goods is due after delivery to the full value (including shipping and whatever import charges there will be in these trade war times). Tax on earnings is also not due until they arrive into EU.

I don't have a clue about B2B taxes for cards shipped to Mineorety, but being US it should be a lot less than 20% (or I've got the wrong idea).

[Iamtutut]

Hosting the card can be seen as a service, and I don't think that there are (EU) VAT on services you place in the "third world". I have never paid VAT on e.g. web hosting services (but that is not proof that I shouldn't).

There is if the service is at destination of a EU resident.

VAT on imported goods is due after delivery to the full value (including shipping and whatever import charges there will be in these trade war times). Tax on earnings is also not due until they arrive into EU.

Wrong and wrong.
VAT and custom taxes are due BEFORE the good enter, that's the custom clearance. No custom clearance, the good stays at the custom border.
Tax on earnings depend of fiscal treaties between countries, assuming we're talking about mineority hosting the FPGA for a non US based entity. The revenues have to be declared yearly. How they are declared is stated by the tax treaty between the hosting country (US) and the FPGA owner's country.

[Kryptowolf512]

Any other shops to buy a BCU1525?

[RivAngE]

Has anyone bought anything from Mineority? I haven't managed to find out their payment method. I see they require you to login with Metamask, but does that also mean they require you to buy with Ethereum?
I'm not planing to spend my crypto to purchase anything at those ridiculous low prices, I'll have to use my bank to send fiat to an exchange and get crypto if they don't accept PayPal, but then I won't be able to send this big amount because of capital controls (Greece!!)

[NiklasFalk]

VAT on imported goods is due after delivery to the full value (including shipping and whatever import charges there will be in these trade war times). Tax on earnings is also not due until they arrive into EU.

Wrong and wrong.
VAT and custom taxes are due BEFORE the good enter, that's the custom clearance. No custom clearance, the good stays at the custom border.

It will stay in the custom clearance area (in the destination country), but that's pretty far from the Mineority farm, and reasonably close in time to the goods being shipped, not 1-3 years before.

And if the value of the thing have dropped (old, being used etc) the Import charges and VAT will be lower of course (shipping used cars in containers is commonplace).

So why pay EU VAT on "machinery" that stays in the US? If I invest in stock on Nasdaq I don't pay any EU VAT.

[Iamtutut]

VAT on imported goods is due after delivery to the full value (including shipping and whatever import charges there will be in these trade war times). Tax on earnings is also not due until they arrive into EU.

Wrong and wrong.
VAT and custom taxes are due BEFORE the good enter, that's the custom clearance. No custom clearance, the good stays at the custom border.

It will stay in the custom clearance area (in the destination country), but that's pretty far from the Mineority farm, and reasonably close in time to the goods being shipped, not 1-3 years before.

And if the value of the thing have dropped (old, being used etc) the Import charges and VAT will be lower of course (shipping used cars in containers is commonplace).

So why pay EU VAT on "machinery" that stays in the US? If I invest in stock on Nasdaq I don't pay any EU VAT.

The customs duties have to be paid when the good is shipped and at the entry point in the EU, so before delivery. VAT for "consumption" has to be paid in the country of destination that can differ from the entry point in the EU, and also BEFORE delivery. In the meantime, the status of the good is "transit" (this rule is know as "regim 42").
I already wrote here that NO EU TAX is due on the items themselves as long as they stay hosted at mineority, read my posts here.

Talking about stocks  irrelevant, there is a specific set of rules for stocks.

[RivAngE]

In their site's FAQ, they're saying (about GPUs),

• Where are my GPU cards located?
  Your GPU cards are located in one of our data centers in either the United States or Europe.

So I was wondering, can't I just buy an FPGA which will be hosted in a European center and then shipped from Europe? Or no matter what, they'll ship from US to a European center and I'll get charged the import fees?

[OurManInHavana]

In their site's FAQ, they're saying (about GPUs),

• Where are my GPU cards located?
  Your GPU cards are located in one of our data centers in either the United States or Europe.

So I was wondering, can't I just buy an FPGA which will be hosted in a European center and then shipped from Europe? Or no matter what, they'll ship from US to a European center and I'll get charged the import fees?

I believe Mineority has said that GPU packages could be hosted in US or Europe, but they'll only be hosting the BCU FPGA's in the US.

[melpheos]

The customs duties have to be paid when the good is shipped and at the entry point in the EU, so before delivery. VAT for "consumption" has to be paid in the country of destination that can differ from the entry point in the EU, and also BEFORE delivery. In the meantime, the status of the good is "transit" (this rule is know as "regim 42").
I already wrote here that NO EU TAX is due on the items themselves as long as they stay hosted at mineority, read my posts here.

Talking about stocks  irrelevant, there is a specific set of rules for stocks.

This is absolutely correct.
Actualy if the hosting is outside EU, there shouldn't VAT charged. The only VAT charged could be the one in the state where the hosting is done.
This is straight from gov.uk website !
https://www.gov.uk/vat-businesses/when-not-to-charge-vat

Out of scope

Some goods and services are outside the VAT tax system so you can’t charge or reclaim the VAT on them. For example, out of scope items include:

    goods or services you buy and use outside of the EU

Mineority should change it's accountant because he is terrible.

[Searing]

In their site's FAQ, they're saying (about GPUs),

• Where are my GPU cards located?
  Your GPU cards are located in one of our data centers in either the United States or Europe.

So I was wondering, can't I just buy an FPGA which will be hosted in a European center and then shipped from Europe? Or no matter what, they'll ship from US to a European center and I'll get charged the import fees?

I believe Minority has said that GPU packages could be hosted in the US or Europe, but they'll only be hosting the BCU FPGA's in the US.

Depends...if they buy the cards for the USA then they ship to a USA site...NO VAT...if they ship to EU and then they ship and host

to a USA site, then you'd have a VAT charge

Seems dumb, (if not fishy) if it ends up in a USA site that they would have it go to EU first and then have VAT charge. More likely

then such an arrangement (if it existed for them or anyone else) is IF they said there was a VAT and it was hosted in a USA site

it would be just a way to get 20% supposed VAT charge added to the card...that whatever firm saying this could pocket the $$$.

not saying that is the case, but would raise my eyebrows, is such convoluted logic was used to justify a VAT charge on a USA site

from ANY manufacturer of anything....not just these guys...

brad

[melpheos]

Depends...if they buy the cards for the USA then they ship to a USA site...NO VAT...if they ship to EU and then they ship and host

to a USA site, then you'd have a VAT charge

Seems dumb, (if not fishy) if it ends up in a USA site that they would have it go to EU first and then have VAT charge. More likely

then such an arrangement (if it existed for them or anyone else) is IF they said there was a VAT and it was hosted in a USA site

it would be just a way to get 20% supposed VAT charge added to the card...that whatever firm saying this could pocket the $$$.

not saying that is the case, but would raise my eyebrows, is such convoluted logic was used to justify a VAT charge on a USA site

from ANY manufacturer of anything....not just these guys...

brad

Well I guess it's a possibility like the possibility to go from the USA to Canada via Peru. It's possible, it just doesn't make sense.

[Searing]

Depends...if they buy the cards for the USA then they ship to a USA site...NO VAT...if they ship to EU and then they ship and host

to a USA site, then you'd have a VAT charge

Seems dumb, (if not fishy) if it ends up in a USA site that they would have it go to EU first and then have VAT charge. More likely

then such an arrangement (if it existed for them or anyone else) is IF they said there was a VAT and it was hosted in a USA site

it would be just a way to get 20% supposed VAT charge added to the card...that whatever firm saying this could pocket the $$$.

not saying that is the case, but would raise my eyebrows, is such convoluted logic was used to justify a VAT charge on a USA site

from ANY manufacturer of anything....not just these guys...

brad

Well I guess it's a possibility like the possibility to go from the USA to Canada via Peru. It's possible, it just doesn't make sense.

I agree...but if such happened to me...and I found out I paid VAT for USA hosting..at the average EU rate (more than 1/2) from what

I can tell at 20% VAT ...I'd be pissed...legit or not...would show bad management under the 'best' of circumstances...


brad

[Mashy81]

There is a simple solution to not pay the tax.
Dont buy the cards

[Searing]

There is a simple solution to not pay the tax.
Dont buy the cards

yep...the group buy allowing the majority of these cards to go to the hosting place...also is not cool...

not looking good IMHO, bringing up unneeded doubts ..if this project is on the up and up

just saying

[melpheos]

I agree...but if such happened to me...and I found out I paid VAT for USA hosting..at the average EU rate (more than 1/2) from what
I can tell at 20% VAT ...I'd be pissed...legit or not...would show bad management under the 'best' of circumstances...

brad

Being in Europe, I wont escape VAT (well I already paid it because I bought it with FPGA land anyway and shipped to me)
But indeed 20% hurts

[Iamtutut]

In their site's FAQ, they're saying (about GPUs),

• Where are my GPU cards located?
  Your GPU cards are located in one of our data centers in either the United States or Europe.

So I was wondering, can't I just buy an FPGA which will be hosted in a European center and then shipped from Europe? Or no matter what, they'll ship from US to a European center and I'll get charged the import fees?

Europe doesn't necessary means EU.

And I think the country of origin regarding custom clearance rules will always be USA, unless the final assembly does not take place is the US.

What is not legal is to charge the import VAT on the FPGA itself as long as the FPGA is not being delivered to the buyer. And the buyer has to bear his/her country's VAT. The EU countries VAT rates vary from 17% to 25%, six EU countries only having a 20% VAT rate. https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/sites/taxation/files/resources/documents/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/rates/vat_rates_en.pdf

[killquentin]

there is also an additional tax on parts which got manufactured in China, US takes 25% on top...

just for parts which get imported to the US

[Longsnowsm]

Something seems off if you are hosting with Mineority and the product is some place outside of the the EU I do not see how they can get away with charging VAT.  Something is wrong with someones understanding of how this should work.  This needs to be challenged.  If you had the product shipped to you in the EU then certainly you owe VAT, but for a hosting service?  That isn't right!