[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread

[samperi649]

Seems to me any sell-off from the wallet launch is priced in already. I expect an uptrend soon after launch. I'm looking forward to consolidating my holdings to one address. I have no interest in selling since I'm building a diversified portfolio of next gen assets. I am interested in using XCP to operate a hedge fund where investors can hold specific assets, sectors or the whole fund.

Hedge fund?!! Damn, I am in.

[Fernandez]

Seems to me any sell-off from the wallet launch is priced in already. I expect an uptrend soon after launch. I'm looking forward to consolidating my holdings to one address. I have no interest in selling since I'm building a diversified portfolio of next gen assets. I am interested in using XCP to operate a hedge fund where investors can hold specific assets, sectors or the whole fund.

Both the sell off from wallet release as well as any boost due to having a sleek GUI has been priced in. Basically, I doubt there will be any big changes.

[td services]

Seems to me any sell-off from the wallet launch is priced in already. I expect an uptrend soon after launch. I'm looking forward to consolidating my holdings to one address. I have no interest in selling since I'm building a diversified portfolio of next gen assets. I am interested in using XCP to operate a hedge fund where investors can hold specific assets, sectors or the whole fund.

Hedge fund?!! Damn, I am in.

Thanks! What I have in mind is a Doug Casey type portfolio for the fund - 1/3 precious metals, 1/3 currencies, 1/3 equities, mainly in resource stocks, also some high tech and start-ups, with the high risk/high yield portion limited to a total of 10% of the fund, and no bonds of any type.

[porqupine]

mike_hearn 2 points 13 minutes ago
Well, be fair - lots of projects have promised the moon in this regard (e.g. Mastercoin) and then not delivered. Counterparty has actual code and specs, which is great, but when I poked around yesterday the only GUI I found is perhaps better described as a command line in a window. I question whether this can be described as a "functioning distributed exchange".

[GLaDOS]

Going through all the recent posts, it feels as if everyone is almost on the same page even though some external media would have us believe of endless debates over irreconcilable differences between the devs.  It's natural that we feel uneasy about OP_RETURN and its possible consequences if one of our highest priority is to protect the blockchain from spam.  If anything, it makes me appreciate the core devs a little more for handling these challenges.

Now think back a few years...the Bitcoin design paper may not even be completed -- let alone a working client -- had Satoshi insisted on including other features such as markets, assets, contracts, and all the possible financial transactions.

Instead Satoshi opted for a simple version of electronic cash and a simple script as a way to add more features in the future.  Today, script gives us a simple OP_RETURN that could bring all those features and more.  And yet we look for a more complicated solution.

Instead, think of jgarzik's updated OP_RETURN as the simple extension to allow features that would be too limited via script.  There is no need to enable dangerous OPs for transactions that can run at the upper layer.  Yes, allowing arbitrary data seems dangerous because there will be people who will try to stuff junks into the txns.  On the other hand, it opens up a world of possibilities for non-core developers to create unimaginable transactions. Trying to deter OP_RETURN is like trying to hold back the first message boards because of spams.

If it's possible to have an OP_RETURN with variable payloads and appropriate fees in place as advocated by Peter Todd and PhantomPhreak, Bitcoin and its upper layers would soon leave most of the new competitors in the dust.  The significant of a simple OP_RETURN can multiply many times beyond current implementations such as XCP and MSC.  Yes, we could be building secondary chains, efficiently merged solutions, or even DHTs of DHTs.  One day.  For today, Bitcoin just needs a simple OP_RETURN.

By the way, thanks both to my mysterious benefactor and to whoever thinks I'm Satoshi. I'm not sure my previous comment merits either of those compliments, but I appreciate them. My SX stealth address is SghSgpVgk7yAFx91DxwfE84Dm6r2hwSpMWcFJbR9wQTAv7pgq61Nx3dNsn if anyone is interested - and if they are, I'm sure they can send me a nonce without too much trouble 

One would expect satoshi to be monitoring the XCP/MSC threads closely and may even provide feedbacks as a detached observer.  topynate provided some very insightful posts (in an almost academic-like style), showed us the futility of trying to classify OP_RETURN as carrying non-finanical data, and even quoted satoshi to remind us of the comparable "unstructured simplicity" in an OP_RETURN.  That embodies the ideals of satoshi for many.  Of course, satoshi would need a stealth address since he could not move those unsteathed coins without being noticed now

[Bountyful]

By the way, thanks both to my mysterious benefactor and to whoever thinks I'm Satoshi. I'm not sure my previous comment merits either of those compliments, but I appreciate them. My SX stealth address is SghSgpVgk7yAFx91DxwfE84Dm6r2hwSpMWcFJbR9wQTAv7pgq61Nx3dNsn if anyone is interested - and if they are, I'm sure they can send me a nonce without too much trouble 

One would expect satoshi to be monitoring the XCP/MSC threads closely and may even provide feedbacks as a detached observer.  topynate provided some very insightful posts (in an almost academic-like style), showed us the futility of trying to classify OP_RETURN as carrying non-finanical data, and even quoted satoshi to remind us of the comparable "unstructured simplicity" in an OP_RETURN.  That embodies the ideals of satoshi for many.  Of course, satoshi would need a stealth address since he could not move those unsteathed coins without being noticed now

It's uncanny how topynate was so crisp in his analysis of the blockchain storage issue and his writing of Satoshi's intentions after being away from his Bitcointalk account for about 3 years...eh? 

[kdrop22]

Seems to me any sell-off from the wallet launch is priced in already. I expect an uptrend soon after launch. I'm looking forward to consolidating my holdings to one address. I have no interest in selling since I'm building a diversified portfolio of next gen assets. I am interested in using XCP to operate a hedge fund where investors can hold specific assets, sectors or the whole fund.

Hedge fund?!! Damn, I am in.

Thanks! What I have in mind is a Doug Casey type portfolio for the fund - 1/3 precious metals, 1/3 currencies, 1/3 equities, mainly in resource stocks, also some high tech and start-ups, with the high risk/high yield portion limited to a total of 10% of the fund, and no bonds of any type.

+1
Very interesting.
It will be very useful for those who need to diversify from the volatility of BTC, but hold their wealth in the blockchain.

[BitcoinTangibleTrust]

Product and Service Updates March 25, 2014
Our mission is to digitize all valuable hard assets into the Counterparty platform and to build a reputable service that can increase the value of all XCP holders.


BitcoinTangible Trust partners with Agora Commodities
We're pleased to share that BitcoinTangible Trust has opened a bulk-purchasing relationship with Agora Commodities for select gold and silver bars and coins. Customers of BitcoinTangible Trust, who wish to move into and out of gold in bulk, can do so quickly and without concern for losing premium on their gold or silver holdings. Agora Commodities has also agreed to help BitcoinTangible Trust deliver independent Proof of Custody for all BitcoinTangibleTrust purchases. Agora's CEO understands exactly what we are doing and has expressed enthusiasm to see us succeed and has given us permission to use Agora's logo on the BitcoinTangibleTrust website. We're excited to have Aogra as a digital custodian partner. We expect to add other gold and silver sales partners in the future. If you have a particular reseller you prefer, please PM us so we may establish a relationship with them.

BitcoinTangible Trust will offer BTC to Digital Silver
Through community feedback, we will lower the barrier for professionals to try Bitcoin Tangible Trust with as little financial risk as possible. We have removed our minimum order from 2BTC. We also now offer Silver for those interested in testing our platform with only minimums requested by Agora Commodities by weight. This means that if you have wish to purchase a few silver coins to test the platform, we will welcome your trial with us.


Thank you Counterparty Devs and the Counterparty Community,
Bitcoin Tangible Trust Team

[halfcab123]

Seems to me any sell-off from the wallet launch is priced in already. I expect an uptrend soon after launch. I'm looking forward to consolidating my holdings to one address. I have no interest in selling since I'm building a diversified portfolio of next gen assets. I am interested in using XCP to operate a hedge fund where investors can hold specific assets, sectors or the whole fund.

That is exactly my purpose with xcp. I currently operate a hedge fund with xcp and bitcoin.

[td services]

Seems to me any sell-off from the wallet launch is priced in already. I expect an uptrend soon after launch. I'm looking forward to consolidating my holdings to one address. I have no interest in selling since I'm building a diversified portfolio of next gen assets. I am interested in using XCP to operate a hedge fund where investors can hold specific assets, sectors or the whole fund.

That is exactly my purpose with xcp. I currently operate a hedge fund with xcp and bitcoin.

I'm waiting until higher prices to start. At the moment, I would effectively be selling off assets at low prices to exchange them for shares in a fund.

[halfcab123]

Seems to me any sell-off from the wallet launch is priced in already. I expect an uptrend soon after launch. I'm looking forward to consolidating my holdings to one address. I have no interest in selling since I'm building a diversified portfolio of next gen assets. I am interested in using XCP to operate a hedge fund where investors can hold specific assets, sectors or the whole fund.

That is exactly my purpose with xcp. I currently operate a hedge fund with xcp and bitcoin.

I'm waiting until higher prices to start. At the moment, I would effectively be selling off assets at low prices to exchange them for shares in a fund.

Originally ... I was going to do 30% high yield high return ... but right before the burn period ended I went 100% ... smartest move I've made and I guess you could say most risky/dumb... but hey it worked

[kdrop22]

+1
Glad to see you back.

[sparta_cuss]

Product and Service Updates March 25, 2014
Our mission is to digitize all valuable hard assets into the Counterparty platform and to build a reputable service that can increase the value of all XCP holders.


BitcoinTangible Trust partners with Agora Commodities
We're pleased to share that BitcoinTangible Trust has opened a bulk-purchasing relationship with Agora Commodities for select gold and silver bars and coins. Customers of BitcoinTangible Trust, who wish to move into and out of gold in bulk, can do so quickly and without concern for losing premium on their gold or silver holdings. Agora Commodities has also agreed to help BitcoinTangible Trust deliver independent Proof of Custody for all BitcoinTangibleTrust purchases. Agora's CEO understands exactly what we are doing and has expressed enthusiasm to see us succeed and has given us permission to use Agora's logo on the BitcoinTangibleTrust website. We're excited to have Aogra as a digital custodian partner. We expect to add other gold and silver sales partners in the future. If you have a particular reseller you prefer, please PM us so we may establish a relationship with them.

BitcoinTangible Trust will offer BTC to Digital Silver
Through community feedback, we will lower the barrier for professionals to try Bitcoin Tangible Trust with as little financial risk as possible. We have removed our minimum order from 2BTC. We also now offer Silver for those interested in testing our platform with only minimums requested by Agora Commodities by weight. This means that if you have wish to purchase a few silver coins to test the platform, we will welcome your trial with us.


Thank you Counterparty Devs and the Counterparty Community,
Bitcoin Tangible Trust Team

This is very exciting!
I have done business with Agora and like their service very much. Their fees are extremely competitive, and they were one of the first (and still only one of four, I think) precious metals dealers to accept payment in cryptocurrencies (BTC and LTC). This looks like a perfect partnership, and I'm very excited about placing my first order. (I'm just waiting for BTC price to come out of the doldrums. Gold and silver are looking very cheap in dollar terms right now.)

[BitcoinTangibleTrust]

+1
Glad to see you back.

Thanks! We definitely have more good news to share! We're just waiting on another partner to close on our agreements.

[Spekulatius]

The problem with a pure implementation of Proof of Stake - all technical difficulties aside, is it's always going to be a monopoly in favor of those that already have stakes - which is untenable for a currency which needs to gain an audience and circulation.

Solution: Pre allocated stakes á la: Country coins

[Spekulatius]

The problem with a pure implementation of Proof of Stake - all technical difficulties aside, is it's always going to be a monopoly in favor of those that already have stakes - which is untenable for a currency which needs to gain an audience and circulation.

I agree but I think that is a problem with a solution. As scammy as Auroracoin is it has the right idea. Could you imagine a government using proof-of-stake crypto to implement a basic income scheme? Every month registered citizens automatically receive a certain amount of crypto income which they can automatically save by generating blocks or spend. That would solve the unequal stake distribution that Peercoin and its clones suffer from.

There would certainly be identity fraud, but the government deals with pension/Social Security fraud every day and is best equipped to handle it. Whether or not a major country would actually try this initiative is another question. But I think there will be at least one country with a weak currency that tries it out.

The other issue, which jgarzik mentioned earlier, that "in PoS there is nothing at stake" is also a technical problem that I think Ethereum will be trying to solve.

I think that is actually factually wrong. What is at stake with POW? If Bitcoin forks in two then I have suddenly 2x the Bitcoins and no loss (provided the two chains stay equally popular in summation). With POS it would be the same or wouldnt it?

[porqupine]

If Bitcoin forks in two - you would have two chains that are each 200% easier to attack.

[romerun]

what do you guys think of the new IRS guidance on crypto ?

If I buy a poo from overstock with bitcoin, overstock might be required to report the transaction, and I have to report my cap gain for that transaction.

But if XCP/MSC decentralized marketplaces are available, nobody is forced to report anything, then cryptomoney users are off the hook.

[Spekulatius]

The problem with a pure implementation of Proof of Stake - all technical difficulties aside, is it's always going to be a monopoly in favor of those that already have stakes - which is untenable for a currency which needs to gain an audience and circulation.

The problem with a pure implementation of Proof of Work is it's always going to be a monopoly in favor of those who have lots of hardware, which is untenable for a currency which needs to gain an audience and circulation.

Under both systems, investors (directly or in hardware/mining costs) / early adopters will have all the coins.  Once the currency gains usefulness, the demand will grow and these folks will sell their coins on the free market to anybody who wants one, at the right price.  

The "wider adoption" process works the same way eventually, it's just the initial distribution that's different.  One of them is a gigantic waste of electricity and hardware resources, and the other tends to make the developers rich.  Counterparty is the ONLY crypto-currency that has eschewed BOTH of these methods with a truly fair distribution.

Quite to the contrary
Counterparty has the worst of both worlds as it strips the devs off their funds needed to further development and lacks the long term distribution process of POW. Majority of funds are still concentrated in the hands of earliest adopters eg burners. All it provides over the other two is a subtle ethic advantage at first glance. If you reconcile what could be achieved for society if devs would have the initial backing of funds to speed up development and some sort of egalitarian distribution process like Countrycoins or POW provide it becomes ethically questionable to go down that road.

[Spekulatius]

what do you guys think of the new IRS guidance on crypto ?

If I buy a poo from overstock with bitcoin, overstock might be required to report the transaction, and I have to report my cap gain for that transaction.

But if XCP/MSC decentralized marketplaces are available, nobody is forced to report anything, then cryptomoney users are off the hook.

How?