rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;)

[Cconvert2G36]

wow a lot of quality wall observation in here :|

But you don't understand.
They're taking down the wall of illusion and enforced ignorance; and using the bricks to build cities of enlightenment.

And with 33% less gravity and a concave earth, building those cities will be effortless... I think. The walls will practically build themselves, and then we may observe them.

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[Hyena]

I did read that, in fact. And really, I do not see any reason there to overthrow all of physics.

But let's not clutter Risto's thread with this nonsense. The only point I really wanted to make is that the notion that all scientists would be part of this giant conspiracy is ridiculous. (And in turn, anything that requires that to be true as well).

I'm not overthrowing all of physics. Just the parts that can have potentially originated from foul and corrupt sources.

As for mr. Reptile and his thread, he started the flat earth and dreaming fork, so why complain about the consequences?

Do you have a GPS in your phone ?
Does it make accurate predictions such as "where am I now" ?
It works because we KNOW the shape of the earth, with an error less than 1 meter for civilian use, and probably less than 1 cm for the military.

So what? GPS can perfectly function in the concave and even flat earth model. It doesn't prove shit. What I am interested in though is the gyroscope capability of the modern smartphones. With a gyroscope it is theoretically possible to determine the curvature of the Earth and even verify if the Earth is revolving or not.

[wachtwoord]

Usually when you have to dismiss every known aspect of physics, space and time, you can bet you are on the wrong side of logic.

Or trolling, still not sure. Apologies if not.

In my ventures, I seek to retain the ground of experimentation and logic. Experimentation made me witness a 33% reduction in apparent gravity, logic says that there might be something wrong in the gravity model if such things happen...

I'm not trolling. I'm simply not assuming anything taught by the public education system to be true or false. I look at the problem without any expectation bias at all. All I wanted to say was that there is one experiment that could settle the flat/concave/convex Earth debate once and for all --- and this experiment is the rectilineator experiment. Just draw a god damn straight line and compare it with the curvature of the Earth. It's the most robust and clear experiment we can do. It doesn't require any assumptions regarding properties of ether and light. It does assume that the space is not bent, however. But I thought that if the space itself is warped and bent somehow then the whole universe is just so bizarre that I would be better off not trying to understand it  

Gravity fields do bend space-time that's basically how they work. Yes the universe is a bizarre place

[Hyena]

Gravity fields do bend space-time that's basically how they work. Yes the universe is a bizarre place

Assuming that gravity as a force exists at all. I cannot stand such assumptions. We know nothing about gravity, even the top scientists themselves admit it, so why talk about the invisible dragon in someone's garage in the first place?

IMO gravity is not a force after all. It's just a physical effect caused by something that is yet to be known. I have constructed a simple computer simulation where gravity is caused by the equal and simultaneous expansion of all the atomic particles in the universe. Credits go to my brother though since he saw this concept in his dreams.

Here's my simulation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2opz-6HWro

And interestingly here's someone else's simulation of the very same concept:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QboDTgped1E

[Pruden]

So what? GPS can perfectly function in the concave and even flat earth model. It doesn't prove shit. What I am interested in though is the gyroscope capability of the modern smartphones. With a gyroscope it is theoretically possible to determine the curvature of the Earth and even verify if the Earth is revolving or not.

Foucault's pendulum.
You really haven't looked it up? Or you have a problem with it being "not publicly available"?

[nioc]

IIT Hyena trolls all

As to Hyena's gravity video where part of the description is "Here, gravity is not a force between objects that pulls them together but instead, the objects expand in size" you are correct that gravity is not a force between objects that pulls them together.  That is a misconception as to how gravity works.

BTW I have an Albert Einstein action figure given to me by my gf. 

[rpietila]

I have now operationalized 2 experiments that can disprove flat earth and ball-shaped earth, respectively:


1) Non-stop flight from Santiago, Chile to Auckland, NZ takes only 12 hours and is operated on a constant basis. It should be reasonably possible to board this flight as a passenger and observe all conditions during the flight. To happen on a flat earth, the airplane should be capable on flying almost double the usual cruising speed, because the distance between the places is almost double compared to the ball earth model (which fits the flight time given).

2) If North Star is visible south of Equator.

[rjclarke2000]

I am confused and must be honest that i have not read the full discussion here but.....it's got to be round hasn't it? We've seen it from space and you can't see all the countries at once can you?


Surely flat you would.


What am I missing here?

As I said, I have only read a few posts.

[Hyena]

It's : [(Newton and Einstein provided a mathematical model of the world)

Einstein was a paid con artist. He was given an order to find a mathematical model to deceive the population.

AND (we launched satellites using this mathematical model)

We? Who are we? You and I? I didn't launch nothing, I didn't get to audit the launch, did you? How can you be sure it even happened? Even the fucking students who build satellites these days don't get to launch their own satellites. The hardware is sent to some space institution which gets to launch the satellite FOR THEM. Smells awfully like a man in the middle attack. So how can you trust this bullshit? I haven't been in space, I haven't been given a chance to audit NASA, therefore I discard everything they produce and label as "truth".

AND (those satellites send signals to your GPS)

Yes, keep repeating what you are told. What's your point anyway? You think I don't believe in satellites? There is zero gravity up there at some point, so obviously there are satellites and those can be used for the GPS to work.

AND (your GPS works)] => [the model provides an accurate description of the world]

And here you make strange implication. GPS works therefore mainstream science got it all right. WTF man? And this guy is telling me that I don't understand the scientific method. Don't make me laugh.

If you have a new mathematical model of the world, then you must :
- write down its equations,
- verify that, for all experiments done so far, it produces the same results within the error range of the previous experiments,
- propose a new experiment that should give a significantly different result between the old model and the new one,
- (optionally) realize the experiment, or wait for someone else to do it, to tell the 2 models apart.

If I have a new mathematical model of the world I don't have to do jack shit. Guess what happens if you threaten the fundamentals of the mainstream science? You get ignored, ridiculed and in worse cases even murdered. Guess how many people would have their egos shattered by a new mathematical model of the world? People will lose their jobs. The whole world is against such changes and they work together to silence any threats. The term "peer review" is a joke because all those peers only acknowledge science that does not conflict with their own understandings and they will criticise everything that threatens their description of the world. This is how human mind operates. It's called egomania and it's a collective sickness of the whole man kind.

The "gyroscope" uses a mathematical model of the world named "conservation of angular momentum". Do you trust this model ? Do you think that there is a gyroscope in your phone ? What is the minimal mass and speed of rotation that a gyroscope needs to have in order to provide a reliable way to measure the curvature of the Earth ? Do you think that it fits into your phone ?

I'm referring to the Sagnac effect which allows getting rid of the mechanical components of the gyroscope. Do I trust it? No, but I would be interested to know the results of those measurements. I don't trust it because I don't fully understand ether and whether ether itself revolves with Earth or not.

Foucault's pendulum.
You really haven't looked it up? Or you have a problem with it being "not publicly available"?

Of course I have looked it up and it's definitely interesting, but I see you itch so hard on making fun of me by stating this "not publicly available" bullshit that I don't even know if I have anything to discuss with you. The problem with the pendulum is that it doesn't allow me to determine the curvature of Earth, it just appears to demonstrate rotation but I wouldn't say it proves it yet since revolving could also be caused by the movement of ether rather than the Earth itself.

[birr]

I have now operationalized 2 experiments that can disprove flat earth and ball-shaped earth, respectively:


1) Non-stop flight from Santiago, Chile to Auckland, NZ takes only 12 hours and is operated on a constant basis. It should be reasonably possible to board this flight as a passenger and observe all conditions during the flight. To happen on a flat earth, the airplane should be capable on flying almost double the usual cruising speed, because the distance between the places is almost double compared to the ball earth model (which fits the flight time given).

2) If North Star is visible south of Equator.

Take into account refraction at the horizon

[macsga]

A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!"

— Hawking, 1988, "A brief history of time"

Maybe Hyena got it right, and all the rest of us are too dumb to understand it... who knows?

[Hyena]

A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!"

— Hawking, 1988, "A brief history of time"

Maybe Hyena got it right, and all the rest of us are too dumb to understand it... who knows?

No need to assume that I believe in tortoises and dumb shit like that. To be honest, the flat earth theory doesn't appeal to me at all, but who knows, maybe it's the truth. What I do know is that current mainstream science is full of shit and even the primitive things such as the curvature of Earth (or lack of it) is yet to be disclosed. And what the hell is there on Antartica? Why is it a military guarded area where tourists are not allowed? And why is North Pole also a restricted area? This is pissing me off. I want answers.

[macsga]

There's no distinction of truth or lie when it comes to a theory. There's only experimental proof. For instance, there's a strong possibility both earth curvature and flat earth theories be absolutely true (some complex mathematics, parabolic geometry and a unified gravitational field within a 5th dimension point could justify that both are -at the same time- right). Nevertheless, as I posted above (about my extraordinary claim of us populating a Dyson Sphere) there's lack of extraordinary evidence...

Pity. I could use the money from a Nobel prize to buy more coinz 

[Hyena]

There's no distinction of truth or lie when it comes to a theory. There's only experimental proof. For instance, there's a strong possibility both earth curvature and flat earth theories be absolutely true (some complex mathematics, parabolic geometry and a unified gravitational field within a 5th dimension point could justify that both are -at the same time- right). Nevertheless, as I posted above (about my extraordinary claim of us populating a Dyson Sphere) there's lack of extraordinary evidence...

Pity. I could use the money from a Nobel prize to buy more coinz 

This is correct. According to the Beatles we all live in the yellow submarine which is also a possibility no worse than all the other theories currently out there.

https://youtu.be/fbgGKCRF5X8?t=305

[Pruden]

Just when I thought it couldn't get any better.

[BitChick]

And what the hell is there on Antartica?

Ice, mostly.

Why is it a military guarded area where tourists are not allowed?

Tourists are allowed.
It may cost you a bit more than rpietila round the world trip, but with a bit of motivation you can go to Antartica.

And why is North Pole also a restricted area? This is pissing me off. I want answers.

It's not. Going there is mostly a matter of having enough money.

(But obviously these are just scam sites designed to make me feel like it's actually possible to get there, when in fact all reservations are canceled at the last minute. Sure.)

I flew over the North Pole last year on my flight from LAX to Hyderabad, India.  I was actually shocked to see where we were on the GPS map and it felt a bit unnerving to know I was so far from civilization if we needed to make an emergency landing. 

I guess for some long haul flights going over the pole is a shorter distance though.

Not sure what all this discussion is about anyway?  I suppose there is something to the thought that there are other dimensions that we are not aware of, but the earth is a sphere within the dimension we currently are experiencing.  What more is out there?  We will find out after death I believe.  I just finished a book called "Imagine Heaven" by John Burke that speaks of NDE's and touches on extra dimensions people have encountered and it is exciting to ponder what more there is beyond what we see in our current physical state.

[DieJohnny]

concave or not, there's one thing for sure: WE DON'T KNOW what the shape of the Earth is. There's not enough publicly available evidence to even support the Copernicus'es model. The important question is --- why are we being deceived and who is deceiving us?

Agree with you...sorta... , but you are defeating your own message by discussing a concave earth in any real sense other than one of many ideas.

We don't know the answers, however, we are not being purposely deceived, we are deceived by the arrogance of man's limited mind and by the sheeple mentality of the vast human population.

We want to have answers, we want "smart" people to provide them, we trust and build more answers upon their "facts". In the end we have a model of the world that is fiction but real enough for 99.99% of people on the planet.

[Bagatell]

we are not being purposely deceived,

Oh we are. Climategate proved that and the TPP confirmed it.

[Hyena]

I flew over the North Pole last year on my flight from LAX to Hyderabad, India.  I was actually shocked to see where we were on the GPS map and it felt a bit unnerving to know I was so far from civilization if we needed to make an emergency landing. 

I guess for some long haul flights going over the pole is a shorter distance though.

If what you said is correct and you actually flew directly over the north pole then this is huge news. They don't allow flights directly over the north pole, not even the satellites. It's speculated that there is a polar opening directly at the north pole. The north pole does not exist because there's a large entrance/exit hole inside the crust of the Earth. For example, google maps are obviously glitchy at the north pole, what are they trying to hide?

In the image below the tracks of satellites around the Earth are cautiously directed away from the opening in the North Pole. It necessarily produces frustrations amongst scientists as certain data is inaccessible as we can read on the NASA site: "The circular gap over the Earth's geographic pole is due to a gap in the satellite coverage."

source: http://thegreaterpicture.com/hollow-earth.html

Agree with you...sorta... , but you are defeating your own message by discussing a concave earth in any real sense other than one of many ideas.

We don't know the answers, however, we are not being purposely deceived, we are deceived by the arrogance of man's limited mind and by the sheeple mentality of the vast human population.

We want to have answers, we want "smart" people to provide them, we trust and build more answers upon their "facts". In the end we have a model of the world that is fiction but real enough for 99.99% of people on the planet.

well currently the concave earth model is my personal favourite but it does no way try to tell you that this is the most plausible one or whatever. If I left such an impression then it was not my intention. I just wanted to throw the concave earth model into the equation due to the fact that currently the flat earth model has gained a lot of popularity which makes people think that if you don't support the Copercnican system then you are automatically a flat earth believer, which is kind of dumb. There are shit load of theories out there and the flat earth theory is just one of them, with its own holes in it.

[Hyena]

By the way, here's a good educational video about the science mafia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F-CBiuJJrk