rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;)

[bassclef]

TLDR bitcoin is a global digital currency, regulation was created in tandem with development and adoption, bitcoin is not and never was meant to be a liberty promoting value exchange. There is no "satoshi". The central banks are already the largest holders of bitcoin. Bitcoin IS going to the moon because of this.

I don't really buy it. The logic recipe is the same I've seen all over conspiracy forums: a handful of unverifiable evidence, a healthy dose of hyperbole, a smidgen of paranoia and a dash of bad storytelling. Check out the full-on schizophrenic conspiracies... those are great fun to read and would make great fiction if the writers didn't actually believe what they wrote.

But let's pretend that you're right. By your reasoning the NSA/government has access just about everything... social media, bittorrent, hardware, operating systems. Even Linux is likely backdoored. That gives them access to basically everything. What about whistleblowers? Of course they are plants to placate us. So we're all doomed. What's the solution? Altcoins? Those would be eventually compromised too...

Abandon all hope? OK, if you say so

In reality if Gavin's credibility were ever put into question, he would be replaced in a heartbeat by consensus. There are many other devs who contribute to Bitcoin code. Also, how do Central Banks/governments change the Bitcoin protocol to further their tyrannical control if the consensus is left to the miners?

Is it really that simple, or do we live in an imperfect world with imperfect individuals attempting to run imperfect systems of governments?

Look, I'm not opposed to conspiracies. I simply think that most of them are a lazy cop-out without much merit. They're good stories, but that's it.

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[madmat]

TLDR bitcoin is a global digital currency, regulation was created in tandem with development and adoption, bitcoin is not and never was meant to be a liberty promoting value exchange. There is no "satoshi". The central banks are already the largest holders of bitcoin. Bitcoin IS going to the moon because of this.

I don't really buy it. The logic recipe is the same I've seen all over conspiracy forums: a handful of unverifiable evidence, a healthy dose of hyperbole, a smidgen of paranoia and a dash of bad storytelling. Check out the full-on schizophrenic conspiracies... those are great fun to read and would make great fiction if the writers didn't actually believe what they wrote.

But let's pretend that you're right. By your reasoning the NSA/government has access just about everything... social media, bittorrent, hardware, operating systems. Even Linux is likely backdoored. That gives them access to basically everything. What about whistleblowers? Of course they are plants to placate us. So we're all doomed. What's the solution? Altcoins? Those would be eventually compromised too...

Abandon all hope? OK, if you say so

In reality if Gavin's credibility were ever put into question, he would be replaced in a heartbeat by consensus. There are many other devs who contribute to Bitcoin code. Also, how do Central Banks/governments change the Bitcoin protocol to further their tyrannical control if the consensus is left to the miners?

Is it really that simple, or do we live in an imperfect world with imperfect individuals attempting to run imperfect systems of governments?

Look, I'm not opposed to conspiracies. I simply think that most of them are a lazy cop-out without much merit. They're good stories, but that's it.

Thanks for this message, i was truly amazed so many people bought this conspiracy theory without any evidence.

[hdbuck]

TLDR bitcoin is a global digital currency, regulation was created in tandem with development and adoption, bitcoin is not and never was meant to be a liberty promoting value exchange. There is no "satoshi". The central banks are already the largest holders of bitcoin. Bitcoin IS going to the moon because of this.

I don't really buy it. The logic recipe is the same I've seen all over conspiracy forums: a handful of unverifiable evidence, a healthy dose of hyperbole, a smidgen of paranoia and a dash of bad storytelling. Check out the full-on schizophrenic conspiracies... those are great fun to read and would make great fiction if the writers didn't actually believe what they wrote.

But let's pretend that you're right. By your reasoning the NSA/government has access just about everything... social media, bittorrent, hardware, operating systems. Even Linux is likely backdoored. That gives them access to basically everything. What about whistleblowers? Of course they are plants to placate us. So we're all doomed. What's the solution? Altcoins? Those would be eventually compromised too...

Abandon all hope? OK, if you say so

In reality if Gavin's credibility were ever put into question, he would be replaced in a heartbeat by consensus. There are many other devs who contribute to Bitcoin code. Also, how do Central Banks/governments change the Bitcoin protocol to further their tyrannical control if the consensus is left to the miners?

Is it really that simple, or do we live in an imperfect world with imperfect individuals attempting to run imperfect systems of governments?

Look, I'm not opposed to conspiracies. I simply think that most of them are a lazy cop-out without much merit. They're good stories, but that's it.

Thanks for this message, i was truly amazed so many people bought this conspiracy theory without any evidence.

Problem with conspirators is that they are way too powerful, if not smart, to leave bold evidences.
And i would tend to argue that NSA dont care about the government. I mean, these guys are la creme de la creme of our modern society.
Dont be silly, they understand and have access to technology you would not even dream of.

However, History has highlighted many times that things go way deeper behind the curtains.
Sure there is no proofs, but just by witnessing the global propaganda, the failing financial system, the ideological imperialism, wars, or even 911 (which is now being more and more acknowledged as a conspiracy indeed) etc...

So imo the real question is who is playing who? Is the NSA playing/trolling the old establishment and their f#cked up archaic financial system? Dont you think these guys have run all the calcs in order to switch from this dying paradigm and take the lead? Does global surveillance rings a bell? Google it may be.. ^^

Anyhow, for example, imho it is not because we dont have global media covered proofs of UFOs that they necessarily dont exist.

So here i am, just being a suspicious agnostic.

[rpietila]

Anyhow, for example, imho it is not because we dont have global media covered proofs of UFOs that they necessarily dont exist.

Even to the contrary: so many global media pet stories "EVIDENCE" are either proven lies, soon-to-be-proven lies, obvious lies, etc. that IF something is clearly pushed through as evidence, the truth is more likely not there.

A good reason to totally ignore all media, except social.

[hdbuck]

Anyhow, for example, imho it is not because we dont have global media covered proofs of UFOs that they necessarily dont exist.

Even to the contrary: so many global media pet stories "EVIDENCE" are either proven lies, soon-to-be-proven lies, obvious lies, etc. that IF something is clearly pushed through as evidence, the truth is more likely not there.

A good reason to totally ignore all media, except social.

true this, although i think my previous points are still valid. The NSA is just out of reach in terms of technological advancement and mindgames.

on a side note, i recommend to give the following document a read: http://cryptome.org/2014/08/deep-state-wins.pdf (why the deep state always wins)

imho its all just a world domination game we are sadly trapped in and our silly freedom beliefs are just implacable illusions.

but hey, gogo bitcoin ^^

[Capt Drake]

TLDR bitcoin is a global digital currency, regulation was created in tandem with development and adoption, bitcoin is not and never was meant to be a liberty promoting value exchange. There is no "satoshi". The central banks are already the largest holders of bitcoin. Bitcoin IS going to the moon because of this.

I don't really buy it. The logic recipe is the same I've seen all over conspiracy forums: a handful of unverifiable evidence, a healthy dose of hyperbole, a smidgen of paranoia and a dash of bad storytelling. Check out the full-on schizophrenic conspiracies... those are great fun to read and would make great fiction if the writers didn't actually believe what they wrote.

But let's pretend that you're right. By your reasoning the NSA/government has access just about everything... social media, bittorrent, hardware, operating systems. Even Linux is likely backdoored. That gives them access to basically everything. What about whistleblowers? Of course they are plants to placate us. So we're all doomed. What's the solution? Altcoins? Those would be eventually compromised too...

Abandon all hope? OK, if you say so

In reality if Gavin's credibility were ever put into question, he would be replaced in a heartbeat by consensus. There are many other devs who contribute to Bitcoin code. Also, how do Central Banks/governments change the Bitcoin protocol to further their tyrannical control if the consensus is left to the miners?

Is it really that simple, or do we live in an imperfect world with imperfect individuals attempting to run imperfect systems of governments?

Look, I'm not opposed to conspiracies. I simply think that most of them are a lazy cop-out without much merit. They're good stories, but that's it.

Thanks for this message, i was truly amazed so many people bought this conspiracy theory without any evidence.

Problem with conspirators is that they are way too powerful, if not smart, to leave bold evidences.
And i would tend to argue that NSA dont care about the government. I mean, these guys are la creme de la creme of our modern society.
Dont be silly, they understand and have access to technology you would not even dream of.

However, History has highlighted many times that things go way deeper behind the curtains.
Sure there is no proofs, but just by witnessing the global propaganda, the failing financial system, the ideological imperialism, wars, or even 911 (which is now being more and more acknowledged as a conspiracy indeed) etc...

So imo the real question is who is playing who? Is the NSA playing/trolling the old establishment and their f#cked up archaic financial system? Dont you think these guys have run all the calcs in order to switch from this dying paradigm and take the lead? Does global surveillance rings a bell? Google it may be.. ^^

Anyhow, for example, imho it is not because we dont have global media covered proofs of UFOs that they necessarily dont exist.

So here i am, just being a suspicious agnostic.

I remember that I saw a movie or I it was a game that the world was fucked up by the government, like the financial crisis, wars and diseases. It all was made by the government to fuck the world and then the population was desesperate for something to save from all these catastrophes and who do you think was the hero to bring the world to peace again?

Right, the government! The house never loses...

Yes maybe bitcoin is this kind of hero that we are hoping so much to bring the world hope, wealth and power to the people, however, it may be our doom... 

[fewcoins]

or maybe the government made bitcoin 

[NotLambchop]

...
Yes maybe bitcoin is this kind of hero that we are hoping so much to bring the world hope, wealth and power to the people, however, it may be our doom... 

Bitcoin is the hero we deserve

[blatchcorn]

...
Yes maybe bitcoin is this kind of hero that we are hoping so much to bring the world hope, wealth and power to the people, however, it may be our doom... 

Bitcoin is the hero we deserve

But not the one we need right now

[rpietila]

imho its all just a world domination game we are sadly trapped in and our silly freedom beliefs are just implacable illusions.

TL;DR, but do you actually think the above is true?

I think they are the ones sadly trapped in their system that they did not design (originally), and that is taking them to hell (literally).

We at least have a chance!

[NotLambchop]

...
We at least have a chance!

Keep hoping, earthlings.  That's what gives you your prized flavor.



  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

[hdbuck]

imho its all just a world domination game we are sadly trapped in and our silly freedom beliefs are just implacable illusions.

TL;DR, but do you actually think the above is true?
I think they are the ones sadly trapped in their system that they did not design (originally), and that is taking them to hell (literally).
We at least have a chance!

as i said im a suspicious agnostic so i could never be sure its all true per say.
but it certainly feels like we arent the ones empowered (even with bitcoin) and that there are very dark forces (as in 'deep state' or 'intelligencia') behind all the mess around.
they have the knowledge, the networks, the power, the money, to keep on going until they reach their grail: Artificial Intelligence and Transhumanism.

[fonsie]

...
We at least have a chance!

Keep hoping, earthlings.  That's what gives you your prized flavor.



  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

Please delete the quoted post from LittleLamb, he's a trollscammer.

[prophetx]

...
We at least have a chance!

Keep hoping, earthlings.  That's what gives you your prized flavor.



  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

Please delete the quoted post from LittleLamb, he's a trollscammer.

troll's cammer you say?

[molecular]

TLDR bitcoin is a global digital currency, regulation was created in tandem with development and adoption, bitcoin is not and never was meant to be a liberty promoting value exchange. There is no "satoshi". The central banks are already the largest holders of bitcoin. Bitcoin IS going to the moon because of this.

I don't really buy it. The logic recipe is the same I've seen all over conspiracy forums: a handful of unverifiable evidence, a healthy dose of hyperbole, a smidgen of paranoia and a dash of bad storytelling. Check out the full-on schizophrenic conspiracies... those are great fun to read and would make great fiction if the writers didn't actually believe what they wrote.

But let's pretend that you're right. By your reasoning the NSA/government has access just about everything... social media, bittorrent, hardware, operating systems. Even Linux is likely backdoored. That gives them access to basically everything. What about whistleblowers? Of course they are plants to placate us. So we're all doomed. What's the solution? Altcoins? Those would be eventually compromised too...

Abandon all hope? OK, if you say so

In reality if Gavin's credibility were ever put into question, he would be replaced in a heartbeat by consensus. There are many other devs who contribute to Bitcoin code. Also, how do Central Banks/governments change the Bitcoin protocol to further their tyrannical control if the consensus is left to the miners?

Is it really that simple, or do we live in an imperfect world with imperfect individuals attempting to run imperfect systems of governments?

Look, I'm not opposed to conspiracies. I simply think that most of them are a lazy cop-out without much merit. They're good stories, but that's it.

Thanks for this message, i was truly amazed so many people bought this conspiracy theory without any evidence.

phew, thanks guys. There I was thinking btctalk or at least this thread had gone insane. Just answering with "great post" and "yeah, they're 20 year in front of us and everyone ignoring my attempt to point out some of the more colorful fantasies (like the "greenaddres PRIMARY KEY derived from biometric data" story).

This is not to say all of coinits points are false or should be ignored, but his post doesn't deserved unreflected cheering like that. It contains extraordinary claims and no real evidence for most of them. The fact that conspirators carefully avoid leaving hard evidence doesn't make the claims true, either.

Anyway, glad to see not everyone has gone apeshit.

[conspirosphere.tk]

The fact that conspirators carefully avoid leaving hard evidence doesn't make the claims true, either.

their aims are all in your face (FATCA, etc.). The aim of the control grid is to milk every taxable cent from the peasants wherever they go (and the power of expropriating them just pressing a button). This for the masses. For higher levels knowing the dirty laundry of everyone makes them blackmailable.

The lack of evidence is just about btc. But if the state find a way to tame them, crypto could become dystopic.

[Wekkel]

The fact that conspirators carefully avoid leaving hard evidence doesn't make the claims true, either.

But if the state find a way to tame them, crypto could become dystopic.

I think it is better to focus on this question that the conspiracy that Bitcoin is a government tool for total domination.

[rpietila]

The fact that conspirators carefully avoid leaving hard evidence doesn't make the claims true, either.

their aims are all in your face (FATCA, etc.). The aim of the control grid is to milk every taxable cent from the peasants wherever they go (and the power of expropriating them just pressing a button). This for the masses. For higher levels knowing the dirty laundry of everyone makes them blackmailable.

I might add. It is about power, not about money. The world is abundant with resources currently, it can be proven by observing that 90% of people in western countries do not do useful work, rather all they do is connected to generating money to pay taxes, and the taxes in turn pay the jobs that do not exist to produce anything, except more suffocating control and making it even more difficult for the minuscule minority to live and produce.

There is no need to collect taxes, if there was no need to enslave people in the system. When you pay taxes next time, remember that none of it (in general) is used in anything else but to enslave you even more with the system. If all taxes would be abolished, the people would do just fine. The production of useful goods would not suffer. Only all the jobs that only exist to systematize human life would disappear since no one would even consider paying for them from his own pocket.

No it was not always like this. This is the endgame. Most of the degradation has happened in the last 50 years, and the last 25 years have already brought great advances, but also shown the totality of the dystopy that the self-proclaimed "elite" will want to force on us. In my understanding, we are about to enter in the millennial kingdom, and the evil enslavement plans will suffer loss.

Personally what puzzles me the most, is how it's only so tiny percentage of people who get it. It's just sad to see them in the law courts judging me for non-compliance with the enslavement, and nothing at all they understand what is going on. Christians, at minimum, should realize that compliance with the enemy is not ok. And with adequate revelation, this does force some changes in your life (to the better, ofc )

[JayJuanGee]

The fact that conspirators carefully avoid leaving hard evidence doesn't make the claims true, either.

their aims are all in your face (FATCA, etc.). The aim of the control grid is to milk every taxable cent from the peasants wherever they go (and the power of expropriating them just pressing a button). This for the masses. For higher levels knowing the dirty laundry of everyone makes them blackmailable.

I might add. It is about power, not about money. The world is abundant with resources currently, it can be proven by observing that 90% of people in western countries do not do useful work, rather all they do is connected to generating money to pay taxes, and the taxes in turn pay the jobs that do not exist to produce anything, except more suffocating control and making it even more difficult for the minuscule minority to live and produce.

There is no need to collect taxes, if there was no need to enslave people in the system. When you pay taxes next time, remember that none of it (in general) is used in anything else but to enslave you even more with the system. If all taxes would be abolished, the people would do just fine. The production of useful goods would not suffer. Only all the jobs that only exist to systematize human life would disappear since no one would even consider paying for them from his own pocket.

No it was not always like this. This is the endgame. Most of the degradation has happened in the last 50 years, and the last 25 years have already brought great advances, but also shown the totality of the dystopy that the self-proclaimed "elite" will want to force on us. In my understanding, we are about to enter in the millennial kingdom, and the evil enslavement plans will suffer loss.

Personally what puzzles me the most, is how it's only so tiny percentage of people who get it. It's just sad to see them in the law courts judging me for non-compliance with the enslavement, and nothing at all they understand what is going on. Christians, at minimum, should realize that compliance with the enemy is not ok. And with adequate revelation, this does force some changes in your life (to the better, ofc )

I agree with you to the extent that you are asserting that there may be some disruptive and transformative aspects of crypto-currencies that cause major changes in societal make-up. 

However, your dreams of getting rid of all taxes and government is pure pie in the sky.  In that regard, you need to be a little more realistic in your considerations of the multi-tude of services that are performed through tax revenues and to incorporate this into your vision of the future.  Surely, these services may NOT need to be carried out in the same way as they currently are carried out; however, to suggest that there need NOT be any community pooling of money or that these services will be accomplished voluntarily seems sheer lunacy to me.

[rpietila]

to suggest that there need NOT be any community pooling of money or that these services will be accomplished voluntarily seems sheer lunacy to me.

Yes, this is what people have always done. Tax = extortion, community pooling = sharing and caring 

to suggest that there need NOT be any community pooling of money or that these services will be accomplished voluntarily seems sheer lunacy to me.

I have quite resently realized that despite my full time efforts of several years, there is still more to learn about how the world works. So I have no time to argue. If you want to get it, you slowly do. Very slowly. (unless you are smarter than me). I will just share some inspirationals here; my ability to concentrate does not allow writing conscise works atm, also they would find very little audience.

Watchman Nee is perhaps the most important Christian in the 20th century. How many copies his collected works has sold?

I don't know, but when I bought mine, it was still in first edition, 5,000 printed.