SealsWithClubs.eu | Largest Bitcoin Poker Site | No Banking | Fast Cashouts

[HollowIP]

ty to loyal bitcointalk users:

FFF-T9F4AF8F!S
FFF-S619!4752S

Thanks for that! Ended up winning it

[kjlimo]

ty to loyal bitcointalk users:

FFF-T9F4AF8F!S
FFF-S619!4752S

Thanks for that! Ended up winning it

Congrats!

[Micon]

ty to loyal bitcointalk users:

FFF-T9F4AF8F!S
FFF-S619!4752S

Thanks for that! Ended up winning it

Congrats!

Fantastic!  Ooops! I am going to do it again!  like Britney, bitch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CduA0TULnow

but seriously you are going to need to wash that out with some ytcracker:

https://soundcloud.com/ytcracker/ytcracker-computer-crime

and then some free #bitcoin poker action: 

FFF-AS2!4F78TT
FFF-8F5FAS2AT4
FFF-371T!SFTF4

[Dabs]

Hi. I'm sorry I didn't read all 114 pages, but I have a quick question that isn't answered anywhere in the website. Is this game provably fair? Meaning, can players verify they were dealt cards from a fairly shuffled deck, or do we just have to trust the software client and server that this is happening? (When I say "provably fair", I'm talking about stuff like on bitcoin dice sites, where you can see you won or lost fairly.)

[addi]

Hi. I'm sorry I didn't read all 114 pages, but I have a quick question that isn't answered anywhere in the website. Is this game provably fair? Meaning, can players verify they were dealt cards from a fairly shuffled deck, or do we just have to trust the software client and server that this is happening? (When I say "provably fair", I'm talking about stuff like on bitcoin dice sites, where you can see you won or lost fairly.)

You have to trust the software producers Briggs Softworks which their software is bought from

[NLNico]

Hi. I'm sorry I didn't read all 114 pages, but I have a quick question that isn't answered anywhere in the website. Is this game provably fair? Meaning, can players verify they were dealt cards from a fairly shuffled deck, or do we just have to trust the software client and server that this is happening? (When I say "provably fair", I'm talking about stuff like on bitcoin dice sites, where you can see you won or lost fairly.)

In the BTC community provably fair is obviously very important. Yet with poker, millions of hands, several devices (site/client/android) this might be a bit difficult (I don't know details of the process tbh - I only know basics from your lotto )

Most times on poker websites they have certificates from trusted companies that have tested the RNG. For example on the biggest site Stars: http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/rng/

Like addi said, Seals uses Briggs Softworks' Poker Mavens. They do not have certificates for the RNG (probably because this costs > a lot <) But the advantage of this software is that other companies and sites also use that (which for me makes it a bit more trustworthy.) There is also a open source Card Shuffling Simulator to check this: http://www.briggsoft.com/docs/pmavens/Utilities.htm#shuffle Obviously in the end I think Seals just have a decent history and with that a lot of trust.

[faiza1990]

I sort of love the 50/50 table.  Very cool idea

[xkeyscore89]

requesting free chips, username: xkeyscore

[darkmule]

Hi. I'm sorry I didn't read all 114 pages, but I have a quick question that isn't answered anywhere in the website. Is this game provably fair? Meaning, can players verify they were dealt cards from a fairly shuffled deck, or do we just have to trust the software client and server that this is happening? (When I say "provably fair", I'm talking about stuff like on bitcoin dice sites, where you can see you won or lost fairly.)

No, it isn't provably fair.  Nobody has actually figured out how to do that yet.  I know you're working on it, but if you succeed, you will be the first person to manage this feat.

There have, in fact, been collusion gangs busted and kicked off Seals, specifically at the Pot-Limit Omaha tables.  Players caught them, and the site removed them, and divvied up the stolen money between the victims.

[Sicilian]

No, it isn't provably fair.  Nobody has actually figured out how to do that yet.  I know you're working on it, but if you succeed, you will be the first person to manage this feat.

It sounds very hard to do for poker.  For one thing, you don't want people to know the cards that other players folded even after the hand is over.

[HollowIP]

No, it isn't provably fair.  Nobody has actually figured out how to do that yet.  I know you're working on it, but if you succeed, you will be the first person to manage this feat.

It sounds very hard to do for poker.  For one thing, you don't want people to know the cards that other players folded even after the hand is over.

What if each person were to just input a client seed prior to the game, and the combined inputs would be the shuffle?

Say its a 20 digit seed. 1st round shuffle would be the combination of all 1st digit inputs, 2nd shuffle the 2nd digit, etc.

[Sicilian]

No, it isn't provably fair.  Nobody has actually figured out how to do that yet.  I know you're working on it, but if you succeed, you will be the first person to manage this feat.

It sounds very hard to do for poker.  For one thing, you don't want people to know the cards that other players folded even after the hand is over.

What if each person were to just input a client seed prior to the game, and the combined inputs would be the shuffle?

Say its a 20 digit seed. 1st round shuffle would be the 1st digit, 2nd shuffle the 2nd digit, etc.

How do you verify without being given the whole deck after the hand?

[HollowIP]

No, it isn't provably fair.  Nobody has actually figured out how to do that yet.  I know you're working on it, but if you succeed, you will be the first person to manage this feat.

It sounds very hard to do for poker.  For one thing, you don't want people to know the cards that other players folded even after the hand is over.

What if each person were to just input a client seed prior to the game, and the combined inputs would be the shuffle?

Say its a 20 digit seed. 1st round shuffle would be the 1st digit, 2nd shuffle the 2nd digit, etc.

How do you verify without being given the whole deck after the hand?

The only idea I can come up with for verification would be listing all the client seeds after the game is complete. It would be hard to verify during the game anyways. So after completion, you are given whatever was input prior to the game, so you can check back to make sure everything went the way it 'should have'

[Dabs]

Without hijacking the thread, I'm testing what I believe will turn out to be a provably fair game of poker or any other card game for that matter.

What would be the requirements for such an assertion? I'll try to enumerate.
1. Players can cut or shuffle the deck. Without seeing the cards.
2. Players see all server hashes (SHA256) before the game starts.
3. Players see only what they are allowed to see.
4. Players can verify their own cards.
5. Players can see the deck is being shuffled, without knowing the cards.
6. Players can not verify cards they are not meant to see, like folds, mucks, and the unused deck.

Am I missing something? Some of the above may look like duplicates.

I have no solution yet for 6 to verify without knowing the cards, so that may be my only flaw at this point.

Btw, this also means hand histories and analysis are just for your own cards, right? Or do other poker websites reveal the deck after the hand?

Oh yah, I don't want to derail this thread, so you may reply on my thread instead. Its in the games subforum under gambling.

Thanks.

[Sicilian]

Without hijacking the thread, I'm testing what I believe will turn out to be a provably fair game of poker or any other card game for that matter.

What would be the requirements for such an assertion? I'll try to enumerate.
1. Players can cut or shuffle the deck. Without seeing the cards.
2. Players see all server hashes (SHA256) before the game starts.
3. Players see only what they are allowed to see.
4. Players can verify their own cards.
5. Players can see the deck is being shuffled, without knowing the cards.
6. Players can not verify cards they are not meant to see, like folds, mucks, and the unused deck.

Am I missing something? Some of the above may look like duplicates.

I have no solution yet for 6 to verify without knowing the cards, so that may be my only flaw at this point.

Btw, this also means hand histories and analysis are just for your own cards, right? Or do other poker websites reveal the deck after the hand?

Oh yah, I don't want to derail this thread, so you may reply on my thread instead. Its in the games subforum under gambling.

Thanks.

#6 is the main obvious problem to solve, the only one I mentioned.

No site that I know of shows the whole deck after the hand is over, nor folded cards.

Some sites, maybe most, write mucked hands of players who call and lose at showdown to the hand history file, but don't show them during play.  Hand histories will show these mucked cards, your own cards, plus all dealt community cards and up cards for stud games.

There needs to be some kind of hash of the deck, which is revealed after the hand.  It needs to work in such a way that allows players to verify that all visible cards, and the order dealt, are consistent with the hashed deck.

[Micon]

1)  I appreciate the candid discussion about provably fair.  The group has discussed this many times, and is something for the future

2)  Server side improvements continue.  SwC is actively building as we are listening.

requesting free chips, username: xkeyscore

We run a freeroll every hour + FFF's randomly

How do you verify without being given the whole deck after the hand?

one possible idea along these same lines is a private-public key system where my un-seen holecards can have 2 different private keys and I could then "show 1"  if I wanted after the hand.  Maybe the public keys could checksum to prove it's a valid deck without revealing the actual cards. 

just 1 non-programmers' idea that isn't exactly a solution...

[HappyScamp]

An ongoing problem that I have is disconnects.  They seem, but I can not prove, that they happen far more often when I have a hot hand or when I am near or at the money line in a tournement.  I won't even play in tournies anymore that cost more than 10 chips to enter.  Suddenly my wireless disconnects and has to be reset.   IS it possible for other players to remotely grab your IP and send a signal that causes disruption?  Possibly.  I understand that a lot of players have access to other players' IP addresses.  That in itself is an extremely questionable arrangement.

Another curious thing about this operation is the tremendous degree of suckouts ... which we can here define as 2 or more players going all in before the river but and the one with the lesser hand winning.  This seems to happen far more often than it should.  One good way to study that is to just watch and see what the results are for a hundred events with suck-out potential (that is... going all in, and seeing how that works out a hundred times.  Then you would have a hard statistic.  The number wouldn't say too much in an absolute sense (unless it was enormously high... and it might be)... but what you could then do is go to other a few other sites and make similar observations.  Simple college statistical analysis would reveal in short order if there were something going on there.  A lot of the big poker sites are not available in the states, else I'd be inclined to make the time and give it a go myself.

Why would hands be jazzed up...?  More excitement, and.. more rake.

Just my opinions

[faiza1990]

requesting free chips usename faiza1990 

[pedrog]

I have a question about the affiliate program, in the description it says " Affiliate earnings paid monthly (must have over 2 BTC in earnings or account rolls over, you never lose credit)", I've noticed that chips generated from my referrals are being added to my balance in 24 hours or so after confirmed.

So, no 2 BTC minimum required? I assume I can play with those chips, right?

[dave23]

I have a question about the affiliate program, in the description it says " Affiliate earnings paid monthly (must have over 2 BTC in earnings or account rolls over, you never lose credit)", I've noticed that chips generated from my referrals are being added to my balance in 24 hours or so after confirmed.

So, no 2 BTC minimum required? I assume I can play with those chips, right?

I think that is a typo.

It is not 2 BTC, it is 2 seals chips (0.002 BTC)


dave23