[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[flailing Junk]

Just join a P2P Pool node or start your own node.

P2Pool does not appear to be a solution to the mining pool centralization problem. Almost no one uses it. Maybe if mining pools prove untrustworthy it will be used after that. Still I think my question deserves an answer. If the answer is yes I think it would be quite important.

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[Solarminer]

Just join a P2P Pool node or start your own node.

P2Pool does not appear to be a solution to the mining pool centralization problem. Almost no one uses it. Maybe if mining pools prove untrustworthy it will be used after that. Still I think my question deserves an answer. If the answer is yes I think it would be quite important.

Long term this shouldn't be an issue.  Pools that actually make a profit will have higher fees than P2P Nodes.  Pools with 0 fees now are not sustainable.

[illodin]

So if these masternode quorums are assumed to be safe and miners don't have any power on what is included in the blockchain, why not eliminate the X11 DASH mining completely?

As far as I understand miners only choose the quorums. They have no other purpose. Miners are only used as a kind of "independent oracle".

That task can be done using some other external oracle, you don't need to mine a separate blockchain for that.
Maybe use the bitcoin block hashes for this? Hash rate is bigger, so this is very safe.

I don't think DASH needs PoW if masternode quorums are as safe as you guys tell us they are.
Let the Masternodes write the blockchain and double the payments for masternode rewards (90%) and dev (10%) fund!

I normally wouldn't talk to you, but since you were quoted and this could be a valid question, though I suspect you know the answer, I'll answer.

The POW hash is what is used to select the Masternode Quorums.  The miners also "write" the block onto the chain.  It's really simple, complementary and still needed.

Why can't masternodes write the transactions in some kind of blockchain database?
After all, InstantX is safe, no?

The oracle used for selecting the quorums can be anything... Bitcoin block hashes, DASH block hashes or even some university publishing real-time timestamps of radioactive decay.

If there is a DoS attack or some other outage the transactions default back to normal miner confirmations so the attackers won't even bother trying.

Depending on a 3rd party outside DASH itself like you're suggesting seems very bad for a trustless decentralized currency.

[Sub-Ether]

Hi! Where can I download cpu miner (win) for DASH? Help, please!

Try Elmad's miner first, happy to answer questions at the end if can, what cpu do you have?
https://dashtalk.org/threads/sub-ethers-guide-to-cpu-mining.6170/

[alex-ru]

So if these masternode quorums are assumed to be safe and miners don't have any power on what is included in the blockchain, why not eliminate the X11 DASH mining completely?

As far as I understand miners only choose the quorums. They have no other purpose. Miners are only used as a kind of "independent oracle".

That task can be done using some other external oracle, you don't need to mine a separate blockchain for that.
Maybe use the bitcoin block hashes for this? Hash rate is bigger, so this is very safe.

I don't think DASH needs PoW if masternode quorums are as safe as you guys tell us they are.
Let the Masternodes write the blockchain and double the payments for masternode rewards (90%) and dev (10%) fund!

Double safety is always better than just a safety...

But if Dash can protect blockchain(-s)    without miners and spend "miner's money" more effectively for more useful tasks - why not...

Let's see what Dash's Evolution is about, soon.

[Lukas_Jackson]

...
Pretty much the same except his opinion is listened to by many, many more people than yours (or mine).

Yes, and he didn't say anything negative about Dash. He also said "Dash is pretty innovative" but you didn't hear that, did you?

[smooth]

...
Pretty much the same except his opinion is listened to by many, many more people than yours (or mine).

Yes, and he didn't say anything negative about Dash. He also said "Dash is pretty innovative" but you didn't hear that, did you?

What did he say right after saying that Dash is trying to be innovative?

[dashwhale]

Dashwhale android app update: full proposal information and comments

The dashwhale android app has been updated. It now shows full DASH budget proposal information as well as budget comments, in addition to displaying comprehensive masternode monitoring information.

Please check out the screenshots (maybe somebody can post the screenshots on my behalf; image posts are still locked for my account):

https://www.dashwhale.org/downloads/dw_screenshot12.png
https://www.dashwhale.org/downloads/dw_screenshot14.png

You can download the app here!

If you are interested to include DASH proposal information within your own website or app, please check out our public DASH proposal API: https://www.dashwhale.org/dbin

[dnaleor]

So if these masternode quorums are assumed to be safe and miners don't have any power on what is included in the blockchain, why not eliminate the X11 DASH mining completely?

As far as I understand miners only choose the quorums. They have no other purpose. Miners are only used as a kind of "independent oracle".

That task can be done using some other external oracle, you don't need to mine a separate blockchain for that.
Maybe use the bitcoin block hashes for this? Hash rate is bigger, so this is very safe.

I don't think DASH needs PoW if masternode quorums are as safe as you guys tell us they are.
Let the Masternodes write the blockchain and double the payments for masternode rewards (90%) and dev (10%) fund!

I normally wouldn't talk to you, but since you were quoted and this could be a valid question, though I suspect you know the answer, I'll answer.

The POW hash is what is used to select the Masternode Quorums.  The miners also "write" the block onto the chain.  It's really simple, complementary and still needed.

Why can't masternodes write the transactions in some kind of blockchain database?
After all, InstantX is safe, no?

The oracle used for selecting the quorums can be anything... Bitcoin block hashes, DASH block hashes or even some university publishing real-time timestamps of radioactive decay.

If there is a DoS attack or some other outage the transactions default back to normal miner confirmations so the attackers won't even bother trying.

Depending on a 3rd party outside DASH itself like you're suggesting seems very bad for a trustless decentralized currency.

So the settlement eventually happens by the miners, through PoW in the blockchain?

So InstantX can't be trusted?

[illodin]

So if these masternode quorums are assumed to be safe and miners don't have any power on what is included in the blockchain, why not eliminate the X11 DASH mining completely?

As far as I understand miners only choose the quorums. They have no other purpose. Miners are only used as a kind of "independent oracle".

That task can be done using some other external oracle, you don't need to mine a separate blockchain for that.
Maybe use the bitcoin block hashes for this? Hash rate is bigger, so this is very safe.

I don't think DASH needs PoW if masternode quorums are as safe as you guys tell us they are.
Let the Masternodes write the blockchain and double the payments for masternode rewards (90%) and dev (10%) fund!

I normally wouldn't talk to you, but since you were quoted and this could be a valid question, though I suspect you know the answer, I'll answer.

The POW hash is what is used to select the Masternode Quorums.  The miners also "write" the block onto the chain.  It's really simple, complementary and still needed.

Why can't masternodes write the transactions in some kind of blockchain database?
After all, InstantX is safe, no?

The oracle used for selecting the quorums can be anything... Bitcoin block hashes, DASH block hashes or even some university publishing real-time timestamps of radioactive decay.

If there is a DoS attack or some other outage the transactions default back to normal miner confirmations so the attackers won't even bother trying.

Depending on a 3rd party outside DASH itself like you're suggesting seems very bad for a trustless decentralized currency.

So the settlement eventually happens by the miners, through PoW in the blockchain?

So InstantX can't be trusted?

No, that's not what I said. If the InstantX is not working because of a DoS attack or something, then the receiver does not get the InstantX confirmations within seconds so there is no InstantX transaction to be trusted in the first place, and instead the first confirmation comes when the next block is mined.

[BrainShutdown]

[illodin]

If a miner mines a block and includes a conflicting transaction, or the big miner causes a reorg and removes that IX transaction, then yeah, you'd be fucked.

Invalid blocks are rejected by the network.

An invalid block can be for example a block which has a transaction that conflicts with an already locked InstantX transaction.

https://www.dashpay.io/instantx/

[illodin]

If a miner mines a block and includes a conflicting transaction, or the big miner causes a reorg and removes that IX transaction, then yeah, you'd be fucked.

Invalid blocks are rejected by the network.

An invalid block can be for example a block which has a transaction that conflicts with an already locked InstantX transaction.

https://www.dashpay.io/instantx/

And the reorg scenario?

I'm not sure but blocks are still validated even when reorg happens and if they contain conflicting transactions to locked ones they will be rejected?

Perhaps some expert will chime in.

[Bitock]

Hi! Where can I download cpu miner (win) for DASH? Help, please!

Try Elmad's miner first, happy to answer questions at the end if can, what cpu do you have?
https://dashtalk.org/threads/sub-ethers-guide-to-cpu-mining.6170/

i7-5820K

[illodin]

If a miner mines a block and includes a conflicting transaction, or the big miner causes a reorg and removes that IX transaction, then yeah, you'd be fucked.

Invalid blocks are rejected by the network.

An invalid block can be for example a block which has a transaction that conflicts with an already locked InstantX transaction.

https://www.dashpay.io/instantx/

And the reorg scenario?

I'm not sure but blocks are still validated even when reorg happens and if they contain conflicting transactions to locked ones they will be rejected?

Perhaps some expert will chime in.

I don't think the IX lock would exist forever - this would mean there's a lock for every IX TX ever...

If the IX lock exists longer than it takes for standard confirmations to be considered safe (6 or so?) it's still safer than basic block confirmations, right?

[BrainShutdown]

If a miner mines a block and includes a conflicting transaction, or the big miner causes a reorg and removes that IX transaction, then yeah, you'd be fucked.

Invalid blocks are rejected by the network.

An invalid block can be for example a block which has a transaction that conflicts with an already locked InstantX transaction.

https://www.dashpay.io/instantx/

And the reorg scenario?

I'm not sure but blocks are still validated even when reorg happens and if they contain conflicting transactions to locked ones they will be rejected?

Perhaps some expert will chime in.

I don't think the IX lock would exist forever - this would mean there's a lock for every IX TX ever...

If the IX lock exists longer than it takes for standard confirmations to be considered safe (6 or so?) it's still safer than basic block confirmations, right?

https://dashtalk.org/threads/instantx-questions.5751

Enjoy 

[noobtrader]

So if these masternode quorums are assumed to be safe and miners don't have any power on what is included in the blockchain, why not eliminate the X11 DASH mining completely?

As far as I understand miners only choose the quorums. They have no other purpose. Miners are only used as a kind of "independent oracle".

That task can be done using some other external oracle, you don't need to mine a separate blockchain for that.
Maybe use the bitcoin block hashes for this? Hash rate is bigger, so this is very safe.

I don't think DASH needs PoW if masternode quorums are as safe as you guys tell us they are.
Let the Masternodes write the blockchain and double the payments for masternode rewards (90%) and dev (10%) fund!

I normally wouldn't talk to you, but since you were quoted and this could be a valid question, though I suspect you know the answer, I'll answer.

The POW hash is what is used to select the Masternode Quorums.  The miners also "write" the block onto the chain.  It's really simple, complementary and still needed.

Why can't masternodes write the transactions in some kind of blockchain database?
After all, InstantX is safe, no?

The oracle used for selecting the quorums can be anything... Bitcoin block hashes, DASH block hashes or even some university publishing real-time timestamps of radioactive decay.

If there is a DoS attack or some other outage the transactions default back to normal miner confirmations so the attackers won't even bother trying.

Depending on a 3rd party outside DASH itself like you're suggesting seems very bad for a trustless decentralized currency.

So the settlement eventually happens by the miners, through PoW in the blockchain?

So InstantX can't be trusted?

If a miner mines a block and includes a conflicting transaction, or the big miner causes a reorg and removes that IX transaction, then yeah, you'd be fucked.

can we actually send donation to p2pool, then those donation added as bonus to all miner connected to p2pool ?

if there is a way to do this then we can at least try to centralized the miner to p2pool (which is decentralized pool btw)

[dnaleor]

So if these masternode quorums are assumed to be safe and miners don't have any power on what is included in the blockchain, why not eliminate the X11 DASH mining completely?

As far as I understand miners only choose the quorums. They have no other purpose. Miners are only used as a kind of "independent oracle".

That task can be done using some other external oracle, you don't need to mine a separate blockchain for that.
Maybe use the bitcoin block hashes for this? Hash rate is bigger, so this is very safe.

I don't think DASH needs PoW if masternode quorums are as safe as you guys tell us they are.
Let the Masternodes write the blockchain and double the payments for masternode rewards (90%) and dev (10%) fund!

I normally wouldn't talk to you, but since you were quoted and this could be a valid question, though I suspect you know the answer, I'll answer.

The POW hash is what is used to select the Masternode Quorums.  The miners also "write" the block onto the chain.  It's really simple, complementary and still needed.

Why can't masternodes write the transactions in some kind of blockchain database?
After all, InstantX is safe, no?

The oracle used for selecting the quorums can be anything... Bitcoin block hashes, DASH block hashes or even some university publishing real-time timestamps of radioactive decay.

If there is a DoS attack or some other outage the transactions default back to normal miner confirmations so the attackers won't even bother trying.

Depending on a 3rd party outside DASH itself like you're suggesting seems very bad for a trustless decentralized currency.

You do understand that, in case InstantX is actually safe, it doesn't really matter which oracle you use for quorum selection?
If anything, the bitcoin block hashes are more safe to use, due to less centralization of mining power and a bigger hashrate compared to DASH.

[illodin]

So if these masternode quorums are assumed to be safe and miners don't have any power on what is included in the blockchain, why not eliminate the X11 DASH mining completely?

As far as I understand miners only choose the quorums. They have no other purpose. Miners are only used as a kind of "independent oracle".

That task can be done using some other external oracle, you don't need to mine a separate blockchain for that.
Maybe use the bitcoin block hashes for this? Hash rate is bigger, so this is very safe.

I don't think DASH needs PoW if masternode quorums are as safe as you guys tell us they are.
Let the Masternodes write the blockchain and double the payments for masternode rewards (90%) and dev (10%) fund!

I normally wouldn't talk to you, but since you were quoted and this could be a valid question, though I suspect you know the answer, I'll answer.

The POW hash is what is used to select the Masternode Quorums.  The miners also "write" the block onto the chain.  It's really simple, complementary and still needed.

Why can't masternodes write the transactions in some kind of blockchain database?
After all, InstantX is safe, no?

The oracle used for selecting the quorums can be anything... Bitcoin block hashes, DASH block hashes or even some university publishing real-time timestamps of radioactive decay.

If there is a DoS attack or some other outage the transactions default back to normal miner confirmations so the attackers won't even bother trying.

Depending on a 3rd party outside DASH itself like you're suggesting seems very bad for a trustless decentralized currency.

You do understand that, in case InstantX is actually safe, it doesn't really matter which oracle you use for quorum selection?
If anything, the bitcoin block hashes are more safe to use, due to less centralization of mining power and a bigger hashrate compared to DASH.

I'd be all for getting rid of electricity consuming miners if there were no drawbacks, but I think a coin should stand on its own and not depend on a 3rd party. And what if DASH overtakes Bitcoin (yea yea not gonna happen but just like someone taking over all masternodes isn't gonna happen so just in case) the mining would have to be restarted as the smaller coin couldn't provide the security anymore, and the consensus for the change would be hard to achieve as the miners would need some reward for their services.

And something can be said about distributing coins by mining, I assume masternode owners tend to hold instead of autodumping what they generate.

Also, the miners act as a "backup" in case someone decides to DoS the InstantX process so people can still transact, but without IX.

[eduffield]

Why can't masternodes write the transactions in some kind of blockchain database?

We already use something like the blockchain to store InstantX transactions and where the users promised the funds to go. This "blockchain" is managed by quorum messages; you can't add to it as a user. If any new blocks or txes conflict, they are rejected by the entire network.

That is what this datastructure is for:
https://github.com/dashpay/dash/blob/master/src/instantx.cpp#L23

If a miner mines a block and includes a conflicting transaction, or the big miner causes a reorg and removes that IX transaction, then yeah, you'd be fucked.

You can't cause a reorg, because you can't get the block in question approved by the network in the first place. Miners blocks have to qualify to get accepted by the network, it's not as simple as the Bitcoin system.

Even if you could do a reorg, IX only goes up to $2000 worth of coin, a reorg would cost more than that in processing power to pull off. You can't simply sent the conflicting transaction to a miner, they have the list of IX transactions and already will side with the masternode network.

https://github.com/dashpay/dash/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L2973

So InstantX can't be trusted?

Given that you can't get a block approved with a conflicting transaction, it can be trusted 100% of the time. These attacks are more theoretical, where the double spend attack that we're stopping is trivial to pull off. On Bitcoin anyone can double spend against you by submitting two conflicting transactions to separate edges of the network, there is no question our network is safer to do business on because of this.

For more information read 4.2, 4.3, 4.4 and 4.5:
https://www.dashpay.io/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/InstantTX.pdf