[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[toknormal]

1 is false. It's not equally as decentralized because you need a public IP address. People are using shit like Vultr to run their MNs, not running them from their houses.

Well, first I'd say we have to note that decentralised logic and decentralised hosting are two concepts which have nothing to do with each other.

I agree that - from a network redundancy point of view - a greater level of hosting redundancy is achieved if there are fewer co-hosted clusters. For example if half the nodes in the world are hosted on Amazon and the Amazon's entire service goes down across the board, then that will take out half the nodes until such time as their holders get them back up somewhere else.

But remember the masternode's existence is not particularly dependent on the host, it is dependent on the collateral address. A 'downed' host cannot knock out a masternode for any significant length of time because it only hosts an "instance" of the masternode and it can be "re-instanciated" anywhere, anytime.

Apart from that, it's just a consequence of decentralisation and something that affects all nodes in all currencies. There's also an ongoing debate about mining centralisation to boot. I'd say that the fact that this project has managed to meet the challenge of decentralising an articulated protocol logic in the first place far outweighs any host clustering issues which we would have had anyway with so called 'full nodes'.

2 is correct, but funny. It's totally okay to have an insecure system if it makes you money?

I'm not saying it's "ok" or "not ok", it's just a fact of life that most assets can be bought and the more money a purchaser has the more they can buy of it. It's not a democracy.

I always speculated that if I had limitless funds and wanted to destroy bitcoin, I would do this:

[1] - periodically start massive bull runs that push the price up to kingdom come over a period of a few weeks

[2] - start dumping and scare the hell out of the traders, collecting everything that gets dumped on the way down

[3] - allow the asset to continue to loose value on very low volume until it had 'washed out' all the sellers

[4] - start selling on larger volume to cause another 'scare' at the bottom

[5] - repeat from [1]

Various questions arise from that scenario which I haven't really answered like can you destroy the market when only a tiny portion of the entire coin supply is ever on exchanges, can you acquire a majority of the coin supply by doing this, what would be the use of doing that, etc etc.

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[toknormal]

Remember, I'm not worried about Amazon going DOWN. I'm worried about them being forced to give access to the government.

You mean that they're forced to divulge the names and addresses of account holders who run nodes in order to prosecute them ? (In the event that blockchains are made illegal)

[TanteStefana2]

I debate the "perfect" in your second assertion. It depends on MNs, which I think we can all agree are MOSTLY hosted in the US. If DASH becomes a problem for the government, i.e. they can't tell where transactions are going or coming from, they will issue a few national security letters and get root on most MNs, making it game over.

This is my only real problem with DASH that hasn't been refuted - the fact that it depends on PEOPLE running servers, not cryptography, to ensure privacy.

Actually, if you look here: http://178.254.18.153/~pub/Dash/Masternodes_Map.html  you will see that most of the MNs are in Europe Asia and Russia.  Actually, the distribution is great in the Northern Hemisphere, and could use a bit more in the Southern, yet still, very well distributed.  And the fact that one needs over 90% of the network to hope to decipher any information that's well hidden with 8 rounds of DS, you can see there is no way any single government could possibly do it.  Even North America  + Europe + Australia isn't enough.  I'd say there is very little hope for Governments to do this, ever.

It's just a matter of how much you want to mix.

Can you imagine the trouble the governments have to go through to access so many servers?  They can't just do that, at least in the USA.  They have to have a warrant.  If they can't show they'll get more than a 1% chance of real information from a random mix/transaction (not even the transactions they're looking for) they won't even be allowed to try.

Also, unless the MN is malicious, and recording mixings, there would be nothing to find.

I feel like this wasn't read?

[Solarminer]

1 is false. It's not equally as decentralized because you need a public IP address. People are using shit like Vultr to run their MNs, not running them from their houses.

Well, first I'd say we have to note that decentralised logic and decentralised hosting are two concepts which have nothing to do with each other.

I agree that - from a network redundancy point of view - a greater level of hosting redundancy is achieved if there are fewer co-hosted clusters. For example if half the nodes in the world are hosted on Amazon and the Amazon's entire service goes down across the board, then that will take out half the nodes until such time as their holders get them back up somewhere else.

But remember the masternode's existence is not particularly dependent on the host, it is dependent on the collateral address. A 'downed' host cannot knock out a masternode for any significant length of time because it only hosts an "instance" of the masternode and it can be "re-instanciated" anywhere, anytime.

Remember, I'm not worried about Amazon going DOWN. I'm worried about them being forced to give access to the government.

What I'm looking at is if DASH becomes huge - if it really becomes an anonymous currency used by the masses. I find the idea of the government secretly being able to undermine the security of what is believed to be secure against them distasteful.

There is a possibility that a government could try to block Dash ports or IPs.  Of course, that would be difficult in every country at the same time.  There has been testing using tor/.onion addresses for nodes and I see that as the long term solution if big brother feels like playing that game.

[TanteStefana2]

1 is false. It's not equally as decentralized because you need a public IP address. People are using shit like Vultr to run their MNs, not running them from their houses.

Well, first I'd say we have to note that decentralised logic and decentralised hosting are two concepts which have nothing to do with each other.

I agree that - from a network redundancy point of view - a greater level of hosting redundancy is achieved if there are fewer co-hosted clusters. For example if half the nodes in the world are hosted on Amazon and the Amazon's entire service goes down across the board, then that will take out half the nodes until such time as their holders get them back up somewhere else.

But remember the masternode's existence is not particularly dependent on the host, it is dependent on the collateral address. A 'downed' host cannot knock out a masternode for any significant length of time because it only hosts an "instance" of the masternode and it can be "re-instanciated" anywhere, anytime.

Remember, I'm not worried about Amazon going DOWN. I'm worried about them being forced to give access to the government.

What I'm looking at is if DASH becomes huge - if it really becomes an anonymous currency used by the masses. I find the idea of the government secretly being able to undermine the security of what is believed to be secure against them distasteful.

There is a possibility that a government could try to block Dash ports or IPs.  Of course, that would be difficult in every country at the same time.  There has been testing using tor/.onion addresses for nodes and I see that as the long term solution if big brother feels like playing that game.

Also, I think there is a plan in place to identify MNs from something other than IP address, like the initial hash, the MN private ip, or an entirely new hash.  It would at least be hidden on the network.  Is there a way to sniff this stuff otherwise?  I mean, can packets be followed back to their source if no IP address is used?

[splawik21]

...Time to open a beer   or two...

Sweet

And almost perfect english for someone speaking a second language 

Thnx Sub!
You know after almost two years of reading all this stuff around this thread every non english speaker improves his skills 100%

[iCEBREAKER]

I personally won't buy cloak because of the 7 day proof of work instamine.

instamining Dash in 2-3 days is GOOD....

instamining Cloak for 7 days which is BAD 

Dash's instamine was on accident, because Duffield didn't test the software before going live beause Dash is so important and urgent testing would have wasted precious time. 

God, Duff explained this like a thousand times already!  http://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118http://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118!!!1!

Cloak's instamine was on purpose, because c4shm4n tested his software before launching because Cloak isn't important because Dash is better.

How could you even compare the two?

You are such a troll smoothie!   

[iCEBREAKER]

I'm going to leave this here. 

I personally won't buy cloak because of the 7 day proof of work instamine.

LOL ^. But maybe to them it was a "FEATURE" hahaha


I guess instamining Dash in 2-3 days is GOOD....

than instamining Cloak for 7 days which is BAD 

lol, boy you're wasting lots of time and digging deep aren't you. i made pretty good call on avoiding cloak yes i know thank you. i warned people about xc too and now monero these days.

my problem with the cloak instamine was that they mined the total initial coin supply (4.5m) in 7 days and went to a highly inflationary 6% POS reward. this unfairly gave all the coins that could ever be mined to a very small group of people who then staked it @ a whooping 6% and controlled the supply. i knew that type of distribution model was doomed to fail.

 i feel the same way about the highly inflationary monero emission curve where ~ half the coins were mined in the first year and will have "Roughly 86% mined in 4 years".
bitcoin is almost 7 years old and only has 75% mined. and the btc block reward is fixin to half and it will take them another 4+ years to get to monero's 86%.
so it will take btc (& ltc) ~11+ years to get to ~86% and monero only 4 years. it will probably take dash another 20 years to get to 86%.

here's more of what i said about cloak around that time...
"Cloakcoin had a failed Ninja launch with a 7 day pow 4.5 million coin instamine that has a 6% pos inflation issue. it's also a self-moderated thread that has been censored to cover up launch issues."

reminds me of the monero launch issues and purposely confusing multiple threads started in the wrong place by a admitted scam dev pushing a crippled miner. a dev that is probably still involved but with a new anon nick like smooth or smothie or fluffy, who knows.

Ahh yes, there's the long-winded Duffsplanation we all knew was coming.  Nice doublethink.

Too bad your criticisms of Cloak's ninja-mine obviously apply to Dash's ninja launch (probably more, since Dash lied about its launch time).

You get the basic facts wrong in your final deflection attempt; ie smoothie and fluffy are not anon.  One is Hawaiian, the other South African.

One is famous for Lealeana physical BTC/LTC, the other for being the public face of Monero.

If you were involved in Bitcoin community beyond pushing the Dash scam, you would have known that.

[smooth]

One is famous for Lealeana physical BTC/LTC, the other for being the public face of Monero.

If you were involved in Bitcoin community beyond pushing the Dash scam, you would have known that.

fluffypony was well known before Monero, for Openrigs: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/interview-fluffypony-open-rigs-owner-long-time-miner/

[iCEBREAKER]

I debate the "perfect" in your second assertion. It depends on MNs, which I think we can all agree are MOSTLY hosted in the US. If DASH becomes a problem for the government, i.e. they can't tell where transactions are going or coming from, they will issue a few national security letters and get root on most MNs, making it game over.

I'm afraid that argument's a non-starter.

It's been gone over hundreds of times.

[1] - It would be like trying to swat a swarm of flies with a fishslice. A masternode is just a regular wallet daemon and equally as decentralised

[2] - If Dash ever became such a threat that a government would go to such lengths, you'd have already been a millionaire several times over

1 is false. It's not equally as decentralized because you need a public IP address. People are using shit like Vultr to run their MNs, not running them from their houses.
2 is correct, but funny. It's totally okay to have an insecure system if it makes you money?

"[1]" is also false because Dash artificially and exorbitantly raises the cost of the option to run a full node to 1000 coins + expenses, thus destroying any claim to be decentralized.  DashHoles think subsidizing Vultr/Amazon/DO nodes is good 'Because Decentralized' but all they are really accomplishing is amplifying Sybil attacks by encouraging more 'bad nodes' to exist.

"[2]" aptly demonstrates the greedy, "golden donkey" mindset of the DashHoles.  They are only in crypto to make more fiat, not to change the world for the better.

They are "totally okay" with "an insecure system" if it makes them more fiat.

DashHoles be like "Equation Group?  LOL who cares, I'm making a high yield on my masternode investment product!!1!"

This cargo cult's baffling utter disregard and contempt for opsec best practices (along with the mysterious lack of regulatory intervention) increases my suspicions Dash is a honeypot.

[afbitcoins]

I haven't read last 20 or so pages of this thread but get the impression we are as usual fighting against trolling from the Monero crew. I will say this, the trolling by Monero fans here is what has finally put me off Monero. I've sold the XMR I had at a loss and happy with my choice. Monero seems to be going nowhere. Dash is moving forward. Dash wins.

[toknormal]

...increases my suspicions Dash is a honeypot.

Just keeping the bears happy during recent visit  

[Jestah]

...increases my suspicions Dash is a honeypot.

How can anyone that is so heavily involved/invested with a project that is based on NSA authored technology point their finger at DASH and call it a honeypot?  I'm convinced more than ever that DASH is the future and the Monero cronies are just butthurt because of that completely ignorant statement.  Grasping at anything no matter how idiotic it makes you look.

Thank you for bumping our thread IB.... really.

[Honest Tim]

It's so fucking desperate today, it's cut and pasting it's earlier posts..... typos n all.

[Macrochip]

"[1]" is also false because Dash artificially and exorbitantly raises the cost of the option to run a full node to 1000 coins + expenses, thus destroying any claim to be decentralized.

Running a full node on the DASH network costs exactly 0 DASH, Eduardo de Assrape.
Offering Masternode services however requires a never-spent collateral of 1000 DASH.
People running nodes are free to choose, so yeah, exactly as decentralized as Bitcoin.
God, you're becoming more desperate every post.

They are only in crypto to make more fiat, not to change the world for the better.

LOL
Says the guy who scammed naive customers by selling non-existent ASIC miners. You fucking hypocrite belong into jail.

#RAPED

[AzzAz]

One is famous for Lealeana physical BTC/LTC, the other for being the public face of Monero.

If you were involved in Bitcoin community beyond pushing the Dash scam, you would have known that.

fluffypony was well known before Monero, for Openrigs: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/interview-fluffypony-open-rigs-owner-long-time-miner/

I remember him :-), like here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=29729.100   
Not to dig any further
And did you nice put inside " Dash scam" ... Isn't it painting all you post?

[MasterMined710]

my problem with the cloak instamine was that they mined the total initial coin supply (4.5m) in 7 days and went to a highly inflationary 6% POS reward. this unfairly gave all the coins that could ever be mined to a very small group of people who then staked it @ a whooping 6% and controlled the supply. i knew that type of distribution model was doomed to fail.

I'm pretty sure the masternode PoS rewards rate is higher than 6% and certainly was much higher when the number of masternodes was lower.

i hope you are just trolling and playing dumb. unlike cloak not all the coins were mined in the first 7 days. we still have millions of pow coins to balance things out and keep things fair.

troll harder next time, or better yet work on an official gui. over half your coin supply is mined and y'all still don't have a official gui, lol. and you call yourself a dev, pathetic. start deving and quit trolling.

[MasterMined710]

What I'm looking at is if DASH becomes huge - if it really becomes an anonymous currency used by the masses. I find the idea of the government secretly being able to undermine the security of what is believed to be secure against them distasteful.

which coins do you think are completely secure against guv?

none atm.

[smooth]

One is famous for Lealeana physical BTC/LTC, the other for being the public face of Monero.

If you were involved in Bitcoin community beyond pushing the Dash scam, you would have known that.

fluffypony was well known before Monero, for Openrigs: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/interview-fluffypony-open-rigs-owner-long-time-miner/

I remember him :-), like here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=29729.100   
Not to dig any further
And did you nice put inside " Dash scam" ... Isn't it painting all you post?

I'm not sure your point but I included the second line because it made the point about not knowing what is going on in the wider community. I've never been heavily involved with GPU mining but I had heard for openrigs.

[AzzAz]

One is famous for Lealeana physical BTC/LTC, the other for being the public face of Monero.

If you were involved in Bitcoin community beyond pushing the Dash scam, you would have known that.

fluffypony was well known before Monero, for Openrigs: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/interview-fluffypony-open-rigs-owner-long-time-miner/

I remember him :-), like here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=29729.100   
Not to dig any further
And did you nice put inside " Dash scam" ... Isn't it painting all you post?

I'm not sure your point but I included the second line because it made the point about not knowing what is going on in the wider community. I've never been heavily involved with GPU mining but I had heard for openrigs.

My point is
1. I remember many complaints about those rigs and not at all in favor of fluffy
2. What is "Dash scam" part doing in "point about not knowing what is going on in the wider community"?
 I noticed you repeating it in various contexts, giving me conclusion that purpose of all your posting is - just that, to wrap "Dash is scam"