[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[noobtrader]

Why oh why ...

Get help.

I found the perfect song for him 
https://youtu.be/r9URPvejWHk

or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCdjvTTnzDU

or this ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9_YXGVmco4&list=PL1K_2u71AILJf0Trba9HZgchij2YDKIsu&index=2

[BrainShutdown]

[AlexGR]

BolehVPN accepts DASH - W H Y???
 
https://www.bolehvpn.net/blog/2015/12/14/what-is-dash-and-why-is-bolehvpn-accepting-it/

Thnx Reuben.

"We even received a strongly worded anonymous warning to threaten to boycott and spread negative publicity about us if we continued to accept Dash."
Unbelievable!

Trolling 24/7/365 - Check
Printing and spreading fliers to attack DASH - Check
Threatening businesses to not adopt DASH - Check

[BiteMyShinyMetalAss]

BolehVPN accepts DASH - W H Y???
 
https://www.bolehvpn.net/blog/2015/12/14/what-is-dash-and-why-is-bolehvpn-accepting-it/

Thnx Reuben.

"We even received a strongly worded anonymous warning to threaten to boycott and spread negative publicity about us if we continued to accept Dash."
Unbelievable!

Trolling 24/7/365 - Check
Printing and spreading fliers to attack DASH - Check
Threatening businesses to not adopt DASH - Check

Pathological condition... So they cant cash out money stolen with HASHfast scam. Its an end game for them and they know it... The last thing is to threaten people who use DASH...

[Minotaur26]

Liberty Entrepreneurs
Episode #8 – Improving Crypocurrency Through Competition With Evan Duffield Of Dash

https://youtu.be/e-wZr9chPrk

Great podcast! Ashe and Justin are great guys, follow their show if you can totally worth it.

[spatula]

It's awfully quiet in here. Anyone wanna speculate on price?

[alex-ru]

It's awfully quiet in here. Anyone wanna speculate on price?

"Anti-Dash Trolls" have stopped entertaining us - it seems their sponsor stopped paying them...  
But... they can always offer their services (lifting up DASH topic, entertaining us, ...) directly to us - as a Dash Decentralized budget proposal (but they have to become polite to get financing this time)...

[qwizzie]

Thread also on Dashtalk forum : https://dashtalk.org/threads/how-to-strenghten-dashs-voting-system.7309/

How to strenghten Dash's Voting System

Problem : masternode budget proposal voting participation is currently too low,  this can be observed on below overview's last column (Total Ratio).

https://dashninja.pl/budgets.html



Focus-point 1 :

How to reach more masternode owners with regards to budget proposals to vote on, taking into account the difference in location, language and use of forum ?

Possible solution :

Treat and publish every budget proposal the same way, regardless whether it is originating from the Dash development team or from someone in the Dash community. This means every single masternode budget proposal will need to get published on all available communication channels (Bitcointalk forum, Dashtalk forum, Dashwhale, Twitter and Reddit) and will most likely need to get translated on localized forums by local Dash representatives there as well.

Focus-point 2 :

Once we have reached the masternode owners with regards to new budget proposals, how do we keep them motivated to keep participating in the voting process ?  Both for now and in the future ?

Possible solution :

Incentivize masternode owners to participate in the voting system. Current payment schedule is as follows :

45% of each block goes to miners
45% of each block goes to masternodes
10% of each block goes to the decentralised budget fund

Lets say for sake of argument we lower the % of each block going towards masternodes from 45% to 40% and
create a piece of code or a spork that will randomly verify masternodes on whether they have voted
on all budget proposals or not.

If they have voted on a budget proposal it will pay them 5% of the block per budget proposal.
If they have not voted on a budget proposal or reached their max voting reward they get skipped for that 5% payout.

Process :

Code / spork checks random masternodes and finds one of the following conditions :

A : masternode voted on a budget proposal and has not been rewarded for it yet --> it gets 5% of the block as reward
B : masternode voted on a budget proposal but got rewarded already* --> it gets skipped for the 5% block reward
* max number of rewards = total number of budget proposals on which the masternode voted, this means if a masternode voted on 5 budget proposals it will be eligable for 5x 5% payouts, after which it reaches its max.
(this means each masternode will need to build up a voting score, so the system knows if it is eligable for the 5% block reward or not).
C : masternode did not vote on a budget proposal --> masternode gets skipped for that 5% block reward
D : network finds all masternodes voted on all budget proposals (100% participation, highly unlikely but a man can dream ) -->  it will deactivate the spork and the 5% flow back to the masternodes

This all could both encourage masternode owners to vote on budget proposals and inspire people
to create new budget proposals.

I'm thinking of asking the oracle part of the masternode network for advice but for now lets first discuss and see where it leads....

[Solarminer]

Thread also on Dashtalk forum : https://dashtalk.org/threads/how-to-strenghten-dashs-voting-system.7309/

How to strenghten Dash's Voting System

Problem : masternode budget proposal voting participation is currently too low,  this can be observed on below overview's last column (Total Ratio).


Focus-point 1 :

How to reach more masternode owners with regards to budget proposals to vote on, taking into account the difference in location, language and use of forum ?

Possible solution :

Treat and publish every budget proposal the same way, regardless whether it is originating from the Dash development team or from someone in the Dash community. This means every single masternode budget proposal will need to get published on all available communication channels (Bitcointalk forum, Dashtalk forum, Dashwhale, Twitter and Reddit) and will most likely need to get translated on localized forums by local Dash representatives there as well.

Focus-point 2 :

Once we have reached the masternode owners with regards to new budget proposals, how do we keep them motivated to keep participating in the voting process ?  Both for now and in the future ?

Possible solution :

Incentivize masternode owners to participate in the voting system. Current payment schedule is as follows :

45% of each block goes to Miners
45% of each block goes to masternodes
10% of each block goes to the decentralised budget fund

Lets say for sake of argument we lower the % of each block going towards masternodes from 45% to 40% and
create a piece of code or a spork that will randomly verify masternodes on whether they have voted
on all budget proposals or not.

If they have voted on a budget proposal it will pay them 5% of the block per budget proposal.
If they have not voted on a budget proposal or reached their max voting reward they get skipped for that 5% payout.

Process :

Code / spork checks random masternodes and finds one of the following conditions :

A : masternode voted on a budget proposal and has not been rewarded for it yet --> it gets 5% of the block as reward
B : masternode voted on a budget proposal but got rewarded already* --> it gets skipped for the 5% block reward
* max number of rewards = total number of budget proposals on which the masternode voted, this means if a masternode voted on 5 budget proposals it will be eligable for 5x 5% payouts, after which it reaches its max.
(this means each masternode will need to build up a voting score, so the system knows if it is eligable for the 5% block reward or not).
C : masternode did not vote on a budget proposal --> masternode gets skipped for that 5% block reward
D : network finds all masternodes voted on all budget proposals (100% participation, highly unlikely but a man can dream ) -->  it will deactivate the spork and the 5% flow back to the masternodes

This all could both encourage masternode owners to vote on budget proposals and inspire people
to create new budget proposals.

I'm thinking of asking the oracle part of the masternode network for advice but for now lets first discuss and see where it leads....

I made a rough budget notifier script.  Set it up on your masternode and it will email yourself when a budget is entered.  There is some setup (and probably bugs) and moocowmoo will eventually make it super simple with dashman.  Dashwhale should have email notifications for new budgets soon.  A notifier is key to get the word out.
Details for the budget notifier are here.
https://dashtalk.org/threads/december-2015-budget-proposal.7210/page-3#post-75898

As for adding a fee if you don't vote(take and then reward back=fee).....that is a bit touchy.  I would bet most nodes don't vote because their proposal is going to go through anyway, so why waste the time.  I would rather increase the requirements to get a proposal to pass - like to 30% for more than one payout and 20% for a single payout proposal.  Then nodes would be more likely to vote to get the outcome they want.  A non vote is also a vote.  The concept of voter turnout is not the desire....we want a fair system that only allocates funds to effective projects.

I think we can get better proposals too.  Think about a decentralized exchange that would be fundamentally important, right?  Something like that would get near the 100% votes.  Once we have 1000s of people thinking up proposals some good ones will start flowing through.  Evan is really hard to compete with now...Evolution....ground breaking stuff.

[spatula]

Thread also on Dashtalk forum : https://dashtalk.org/threads/how-to-strenghten-dashs-voting-system.7309/

How to strenghten Dash's Voting System

Problem : masternode budget proposal voting participation is currently too low,  this can be observed on below overview's last column (Total Ratio).


Focus-point 1 :

How to reach more masternode owners with regards to budget proposals to vote on, taking into account the difference in location, language and use of forum ?

Possible solution :

Treat and publish every budget proposal the same way, regardless whether it is originating from the Dash development team or from someone in the Dash community. This means every single masternode budget proposal will need to get published on all available communication channels (Bitcointalk forum, Dashtalk forum, Dashwhale, Twitter and Reddit) and will most likely need to get translated on localized forums by local Dash representatives there as well.

Focus-point 2 :

Once we have reached the masternode owners with regards to new budget proposals, how do we keep them motivated to keep participating in the voting process ?  Both for now and in the future ?

Possible solution :

Incentivize masternode owners to participate in the voting system. Current payment schedule is as follows :

45% of each block goes to Miners
45% of each block goes to masternodes
10% of each block goes to the decentralised budget fund

Lets say for sake of argument we lower the % of each block going towards masternodes from 45% to 40% and
create a piece of code or a spork that will randomly verify masternodes on whether they have voted
on all budget proposals or not.

If they have voted on a budget proposal it will pay them 5% of the block per budget proposal.
If they have not voted on a budget proposal or reached their max voting reward they get skipped for that 5% payout.

Process :

Code / spork checks random masternodes and finds one of the following conditions :

A : masternode voted on a budget proposal and has not been rewarded for it yet --> it gets 5% of the block as reward
B : masternode voted on a budget proposal but got rewarded already* --> it gets skipped for the 5% block reward
* max number of rewards = total number of budget proposals on which the masternode voted, this means if a masternode voted on 5 budget proposals it will be eligable for 5x 5% payouts, after which it reaches its max.
(this means each masternode will need to build up a voting score, so the system knows if it is eligable for the 5% block reward or not).
C : masternode did not vote on a budget proposal --> masternode gets skipped for that 5% block reward
D : network finds all masternodes voted on all budget proposals (100% participation, highly unlikely but a man can dream ) -->  it will deactivate the spork and the 5% flow back to the masternodes

This all could both encourage masternode owners to vote on budget proposals and inspire people
to create new budget proposals.

I'm thinking of asking the oracle part of the masternode network for advice but for now lets first discuss and see where it leads....

I made a rough budget notifier script.  Set it up on your masternode and it will email yourself when a budget is entered.  There is some setup (and probably bugs) and moocowmoo will eventually make it super simple with dashman.  Dashwhale should have email notifications for new budgets soon.  A notifier is key to get the word out.
Details for the budget notifier are here.
https://dashtalk.org/threads/december-2015-budget-proposal.7210/page-3#post-75898

As for adding a fee if you don't vote(take and then reward back=fee).....that is a bit touchy.  I would bet most nodes don't vote because their proposal is going to go through anyway, so why waste the time.  I would rather increase the requirements to get a proposal to pass - like to 30% for more than one payout and 20% for a single payout proposal.  Then nodes would be more likely to vote to get the outcome they want.  A non vote is also a vote.  The concept of voter turnout is not the desire....we want a fair system that only allocates funds to effective projects.

I think we can get better proposals too.  Think about a decentralized exchange that would be fundamentally important, right?  Something like that would get near the 100% votes.  Once we have 1000s of people thinking up proposals some good ones will start flowing through.  Evan is really hard to compete with now...Evolution....ground breaking stuff.

I think some kind of a notification system is the most important way to increase participation. We should NOT punish MN operators for not voting on items.

Refusing to vote on an item is just as valid as voting YES or NO. If you (as a MN operator) do not feel strongly on an issue either way, conflicted about an issue, or perhaps don't feel you know enough about a particular issue, then you should have the right to refuse to vote without being penalized.

[Honest Tim]

we need a wallet that knows if it's a masternode(s). Then you get a special voting screen and pie charts for every proposal.

This is absolutely, totally what we need.

[Solarminer]

we need a wallet that knows if it's a masternode's. Then you get a special voting screen and pie charts for every proposal.

The problem isn't a fancy wallet, it is telling someone to open their wallet or go to a webpage to vote on proposals.

[noah tall]

I'm liking our new drama-free thread.  Very soothing.  If anybody is missing some excitement in their lives, check this out over at "Days of Bitcoin Core Lives":

[noah tall]

[Macrochip]

LOL Noah! I was about to make a Star Wars reference as well

You know it really feels like Rebels vs Empire.

Rebels: DASH and BitcoinXT crowd (which are very receptive to Evan's suggestions to scaling and funding!)
Empire: XMR-brigade and bitcoin-core

I made this chart after I observed how their interests, intents and strategies seemed to merge more and more

[BitWater]

Anybody see this on BolehVPN's blog entry on DASH?

Update on Monero 16 December 2015:
I had a pleasant chat with some of the Monero community in their IRC channel and hopefully it’s the action of a few individuals rather than a big proportion of the community and it is unfair of us to make generalizations of the entire community from a handful of bad experiences (be it personal). We however hope that Monero could issue out a public notice that such marketing/messages are frowned upon to distance themselves from such unhealthy behaviour that is affecting their brand. We will look into accepting Monero once we can figure out a way to charge Monero in USD terms automatically.

This might explain why we haven't had as much trolling lately. BolehVPN basically wrote them off initially due to their "questionable" marketing techniques...

[110110101]

Liberty Entrepreneurs
Episode #8 – Improving Crypocurrency Through Competition With Evan Duffield Of Dash

https://youtu.be/e-wZr9chPrk

Thanks for the post tungfa, great interview!

[Macrochip]

Anybody see this on BolehVPN's blog entry on DASH?

Update on Monero 16 December 2015:
I had a pleasant chat with some of the Monero community in their IRC channel and hopefully it’s the action of a few individuals rather than a big proportion of the community and it is unfair of us to make generalizations of the entire community from a handful of bad experiences (be it personal). We however hope that Monero could issue out a public notice that such marketing/messages are frowned upon to distance themselves from such unhealthy behaviour that is affecting their brand. We will look into accepting Monero once we can figure out a way to charge Monero in USD terms automatically.

This might explain why we haven't had as much trolling lately. BolehVPN basically wrote them off initially due to their "questionable" marketing techniques...

ROFL! Damage control much? Well it's too late. We have undeniable public and backupped proof that lead devs of Monero have actively participated in the hate and slander campaign against DASH. Fuck that half-assed apology or whatever it was. Impossible to distance yourself from... well yourself? HA!

Faggypony even implicated members of the DASH community when some Moronero fucktard trolled Andreas Antonopolous on the other Bitcoin-forum. As if we have the need of reverse-trolling.

News flash: DASH doesn't give a flying fuck about XMR/CraptoBloat.

[Nthelight]

Thread also on Dashtalk forum : https://dashtalk.org/threads/how-to-strenghten-dashs-voting-system.7309/

How to strenghten Dash's Voting System

Problem : masternode budget proposal voting participation is currently too low,  this can be observed on below overview's last column (Total Ratio).

https://dashninja.pl/budgets.html

The main reason why I don't vote anymore, is that I have no incentive to vote, since the vote is primarily (solely) defined by the three founders (Evan, Daniel and ?) and Otoh. Together they probably own up to 1,000,000 coins. This is public knowledge. I don't know if they have set up masternodes for all the coins they own, but it would seem reasonable to assume they did so (or largely so). The voting threshold was set to 10% (Yes - No) votes, which is far too low to consider this to be somewhat of a democratic voting process, taking into account the total amount of masternodes these 4 individuals (probably) own. It's safe to assume they control the outcome of the voting process.

Evan avoided the question from the interviewer at the Mexico conference regarding this specific point. Evan didn't answer it truthfully, avoiding the essence of the question, so I'm sure he's aware this is not a long term (viable) setup. In the end it will just be a few people who will still vote, if nothing changes. A lot of time has gone by and it seemed to me that the initial configuration would remain so. This would effectively render DGBB a pointless functionality.

How can you motivate anyone who just owns 1 or even 10 masternodes to participate, in the current setup/configuration? It's just a formality without any significance whatsoever. This was entirely to be expected and I'm somewhat surprised it has taken this long to actually being discussed, as if you all don't know what's going on? You think people are incapable of executing simple commands in their wallet console? It was obvious from the first post regarding DGBB that this was going to happen. I personally imagined this to be changed once the DGBB functionality was proven to be successfully implemented (which seems to be the case), but it hasn't and there's been no communication on changing this threshold, so up to now I'm still disappointed to see new proposals before actually fine-tuning DGBB to a more righteous configuration.

Since I'm not being penalized for not voting and there's no financial incentive to vote, despite it primarily not being democratic, I've completely lost interest in voting for any new proposal. Why should I waste my energy on it? I have other projects I'm involved in, so I use my time where I'm of actual value.

The technology is probably good, but the threshold to pass a vote with DGBB is obviously wrong. Why such low targets? Scared no proposal would ever pass through? The Dash team really needed that salary proposal to pass through didn't they? So going for 10% made it a sure thing.

It's my opinion that the setting must be 50%+1 (Yes - No). If you don't achieve this, your proposal is simply not good or important enough. Feel free to try again. Yes this also means that some proposals from the Dash team itself may have a hard(er) time getting through. In my opinion, that's actually a good thing and would truly require (pretty much) the whole dash team ánd masternode owner community to vote and discuss/challenge/refine each proposal.

It's not about being notified there's a new proposal, it's not about how easy the voting process is, ... it's the treshold.

Raising the threshold will bring me back to the voting process.

[Macrochip]

Apart from the speculation on the amount of Masternodes owned by the founders I fully agree:

10% is pretty ridiculous. Budget proposals must be able to fail due to low participation. Maybe a dynamic limit should be implemented similar to difficulty adjustments.

Say maybe: Last time 43% voted on the last proposal, so let's try to reel in at least 46% of all eligible voters within 7 days and (if that fails) at least 40% within 14 days, otherwise the proposal fails.