[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[patrolman]

putting zero was a stupid choice.

How much would you pay for gas? 4 dollars a gallon, 1 dollar again, 0 dollars gas is free...

Not necessarily, it weeds out the negative nancies...

I don't think you can differentiate between people who selected nothing because they wont use the service and people who selected nothing because they are cheap bastards.

Maybe the question should have been "What do you think is a fair price?"

Although in this day and age perhaps there is a greater sense of entitlement than at any other moment in history, so maybe the result wouldn't change too much.

[novaboy2k]

We have eCash now, why not send emails to merchants that accept darkcoin and ask them to enable gpg email.

This will allow us to buy things and have them shipped totally anonymous.

Once people see us buying things totally anon, people will come running!

[nsimmons]

putting zero was a stupid choice.

How much would you pay for gas? 4 dollars a gallon, 1 dollar again, 0 dollars gas is free...

Not necessarily, it weeds out the negative nancies...

I don't think you can differentiate between people who selected nothing because they wont use the service and people who selected nothing because they are cheap bastards.

Maybe the question should have been "What do you think is a fair price?"

Although in this day and age perhaps there is a greater sense of entitlement than at any other moment in history, so maybe the result wouldn't change too much.

we should put
I would use this service and pay zero
I would not use this service

[thefrog]

We have eCash now, why not send emails to merchants that accept darkcoin and ask them to enable gpg email.

This will allow us to buy things and have them shipped totally anonymous.

Once people see us buying things totally anon, people will come running!

How would a gpg mail help you to ship anonymously ?
Each merchant has to comply with local laws. And to ship something, ithere has to be some name and some address, right ?

[stonehedge]

RC5 and enforcement is way more interesting than naming a feature that may not ever happen and if it does, will take months to develop.

Ok, so what do you have to say about RC5 and enforcement except for that its being worked on?

I don't know, maybe the master node voting system bug that was reported today that shows that masternode voting has been non random.  Sadly, random variance hasn't been the entire reason why some master nodes are luckier than others.

[novaboy2k]

We have eCash now, why not send emails to merchants that accept darkcoin and ask them to enable gpg email.

This will allow us to buy things and have them shipped totally anonymous.

Once people see us buying things totally anon, people will come running!

How would a gpg mail help you to ship anonymously ?
Each merchant has to comply with local laws. And to ship something, ithere has to be some name and some address, right ?

You send your address with gpg, they then ship to that address.

Like silk road.

[thelonecrouton]

- What I'd like to know is how will it be usable?
(By that I mean, will you need a special browser that connects to the MN network? Or will you just use your normal browser with it pointing at some sort of "DarkTor" proxy client installed on your system?)
- If you do use your current browser, what are the ramifications of that same browser then connecting to websites directly without going through DarkTor? (i.e. cookies, history, cache, etc)
- If you need to use a special browser, what are the development and maintenance ramifications of this?
- Will you be able to browse to any current website anonymously and will everything work like it currently does?

If MasterNet functions as a distributed VPN, then you buy credit on it in-wallet, are issued some kind of numeric token and then point your existing browser at whatever the designated proxy is (a MN presumeably) specifying your credit token and do everything as normal, except securely and privately.

- Is it likely there will be websites that sit exclusively within the DarkTor network? What special advantages might they have? What would be a high level domain associated with this and what are the technical ramifications of this?
- What about bandwidth issues if the user wants to stream video, share desktops, etc?
- What about protocols other than HTTP(S)? Will we open it to all sorts of things or restrict it?

.dark, .private, .anything you like, the MNs could run their own DNS service. (Another revenue stream - DarkGoDaddy )
Bandwidth would be capped depending on what you've paid for.
As to protocols, everything currently existing will work, it depends what 'we' choose to allow, and new protocols such as mnp could be implemented if/as needed.

And with regards to the name, I have a few ideas too, but firstly:

- Who will use this service?
- What would we expect the demographic to be (which is important in terms of pricing)?
- Who is offering the service? (obviously, it's the collective MNs, but is that "DarkCoin")
- If it's "DarkCoin" offering the service, what are the risks to the value of DRK if the service is compromised?
- Is it likely we'll travel along unscathed or will DarkTor likely become a magnet for guv hackers everywhere to break or takedown?
- Will the risk we're exposing DRK to via this service be worth it?
- Will DarkTor (or whatever it will be called) being associated with DarkCoin impact the wider adoption and take-up of DRK as a payment option?

There are different schools of though about the target demographic. I think the easiest solution is to make it as cheap as possible and let people decide for themselves what they want to use it for, if they want to use it at all.

DS+ gives users a sliding scale of transactional anonymity, although 2 rounds is probably enough for anyone, nobody has traced a 2 round transaction yet - maybe any future MasterNet pricing and structure could also be mutable to different needs.

edit: I've stated before that I think Evan and team should just facilitate all this by making it easy for anyone to use the MN network via some sort of API, but I don't really see any reason why the core team shouldn't be producing their own stuff to run on it too, legailities permitting.

Can you see where I'm going with this? A whole lot more discussion is needed on what this is, how it meshes (DarkMesh?) into the rest of DarkCoin's plan and strategy and what the long term potential is. There needs to be a lot more clarity and then I think a name will be chosen that's likely to be more accurate for the service's ultimate goal. It's very easy to get all hyped up early on, pick a name that ultimately doesn't make sense (anyone remember Apple's Lisa?). Iris sounds good and all but when you look at the definition of iris (from wikipedia)...

"The iris (plural: irides or irises) is a thin, circular structure in the eye, responsible for controlling the diameter and size of the pupil and thus the amount of light reaching the retina"

...that concept "the amount of light reaching the retina" isn't really a metaphor for what this service is about. We're not "restricting the amount of light reaching the retina" I would think, we're opening everything up but making the light invisible (DarkInvis perhaps?)

Anyway, some things to consider.

You're right this all needs a lot of thought!

[thefrog]

We have eCash now, why not send emails to merchants that accept darkcoin and ask them to enable gpg email.

This will allow us to buy things and have them shipped totally anonymous.

Once people see us buying things totally anon, people will come running!

How would a gpg mail help you to ship anonymously ?
Each merchant has to comply with local laws. And to ship something, ithere has to be some name and some address, right ?

You send your address with gpg, they then ship to that address.

Like silk road.

Where is difference to a web order placed on a ssl encrypted connection in merchants webshop ?
preferably using tor and paying with anonymized drk ? In case merchant accepts it ?

But yes, I agree with that everyone caring about privacy, merchant or individual, should use gpg.
Merchant should have gpg key on their website.

[jjiimm_64]

This is all terribly exciting. Seeing all the ideas and suggestions flowing is great, but it's also like watching a room full of 1st year university marketing students jointly working on some sort of project their lecturer has set them.

I think before we get too carried away with all the hoopla about what this TOR-like thing is going to earn in DRK/$ for MN operators and what we'll call it, I'd like to get far more detail on how it will work. So far from Evan we have:

Utilizing the Masternode network - DarkTor

    One of the future goals is to turn the masternode network into a decentralized business for masternode operators. To do this we’ll add features that improve the privacy of end users and compete with centralized businesses. Our first endeavor into this is to make a completely private tor network within Darkcoin.

    The Darkcoin network will begin to offer anonymous internet access via the masternode network. As a user, all you’ll have to do is pay a fee for 24 hours of access. This fee will be paid to a masternode in much the same way the masternode fees are paid, using a deterministic algorithm for distributing the payments evenly across the whole network.

    There’s a few benefits to running a private tor network through Darkcoin.

        Sybil resistant - Due to the cost of obtaining masternodes, it will be very difficult for any one person to view all traffic.
        Anonymous Payments - Users can pay anonymously for the service
        Private Network - Our tor network will be internal to darkcoin only. All traffic will be paid traffic, so the cost of running the service should be profitable for the masternode operators.
        Faster than tor - Tor has historically been very slow. This will be a lean version, that has much higher throughput.

- What I'd like to know is how will it be usable?
(By that I mean, will you need a special browser that connects to the MN network? Or will you just use your normal browser with it pointing at some sort of "DarkTor" proxy client installed on your system?)
- If you do use your current browser, what are the ramifications of that same browser then connecting to websites directly without going through DarkTor? (i.e. cookies, history, cache, etc)
- If you need to use a special browser, what are the development and maintenance ramifications of this?
- Will you be able to browse to any current website anonymously and will everything work like it currently does?
- Is it likely there will be websites that sit exclusively within the DarkTor network? What special advantages might they have? What would be a high level domain associated with this and what are the technical ramifications of this?
- What about bandwidth issues if the user wants to stream video, share desktops, etc?
- What about protocols other than HTTP(S)? Will we open it to all sorts of things or restrict it?

And with regards to the name, I have a few ideas too, but firstly:

- Who will use this service?
- What would we expect the demographic to be (which is important in terms of pricing)?
- Who is offering the service? (obviously, it's the collective MNs, but is that "DarkCoin")
- If it's "DarkCoin" offering the service, what are the risks to the value of DRK if the service is compromised?
- Is it likely we'll travel along unscathed or will DarkTor likely become a magnet for guv hackers everywhere to break or takedown?
- Will the risk we're exposing DRK to via this service be worth it?
- Will DarkTor (or whatever it will be called) being associated with DarkCoin impact the wider adoption and take-up of DRK as a payment option?

Can you see where I'm going with this? A whole lot more discussion is needed on what this is, how it meshes (DarkMesh?) into the rest of DarkCoin's plan and strategy and what the long term potential is. There needs to be a lot more clarity and then I think a name will be chosen that's likely to be more accurate for the service's ultimate goal. It's very easy to get all hyped up early on, pick a name that ultimately doesn't make sense (anyone remember Apple's Lisa?). Iris sounds good and all but when you look at the definition of iris (from wikipedia)...

"The iris (plural: irides or irises) is a thin, circular structure in the eye, responsible for controlling the diameter and size of the pupil and thus the amount of light reaching the retina"

...that concept "the amount of light reaching the retina" isn't really a metaphor for what this service is about. We're not "restricting the amount of light reaching the retina" I would think, we're opening everything up but making the light invisible (DarkInvis perhaps?)

Anyway, some things to consider.

Thank you for thinking this out and taking the time to type it up....

[thefrog]

Own DNS ?
Are we now talking about recreating the Namecoin functionality ?

[vertoe]

If open bazzar acceptés darkcoin would we need darktor  Just thinking out loud

open bazaar = market place
dark tor = deep net

I'm yet to decide which feature would be better for DRK to come first. Judging by how long people have been asking for a decentralized marketplace/network I'm gonna say Open Bazaar. From the looks of it there is a beta going to be ready in August and a final release till the end of the year. Hopefully DRK will be integrated into it by then. Given enough time Dark Tor could also be coded (Q4 is enough I believe).
Imagine if both services hit the coin in the same week. It would be fun to watch people fight to get DRK.

That's the plan actually. Darkcoin integration into OpenBazaar is not that hard, but we wont make it till the launch this month, but later this year is realistic.

[thelonecrouton]

Own DNS ?
Are we now talking about recreating the Namecoin functionality ?

Custom DNS services have been around for donkeys years, it's not hard to do.

[vertoe]

If open bazzar acceptés darkcoin would we need darktor  Just thinking out loud

open bazaar = market place
dark tor = deep net

From the brief look I've had at OB you can pay with whatever multisig-capable currency you like, the payment side is completely up to the multisig parties. As vertoe has already sussed, all that really needs doing is some kind of selector / filter for DRK maybe. And possibly better packaging so it's a 1-click install, although it's not exactly difficult as is.

Anyone who wants a distributed marketplace should have a play with it, maybe come up with some (or noodle with existing) DRK artwork that would fit if you'd like to see a rebranded DarkBazaar.

I strictly want to avoid rebranding or forking OpenBazaar. It's not good to have two networks one for BTC and one for DRK, the goal really should be to be able to simply choose the coin you want to sign your stuff with inside the OB network.

[Freckleg]

Would it be possible to offer an anti ddos network for business?

in other words, the to be reached ip is hidden by DRK TOR therefore the DDOS attack would only be succesful if all masternodes would be attacked. Companies would pay for this service thats for sure.

Kind of  powerpumped anti ddos network

[vertoe]

MN count went way up today !
That 'whale' must have turned on some MN's !!

Total Masternodes: 780 = 661 actives + 119 inactives      PM Asia
Total Masternodes: 771 = 635 actives + 136 inactives      Am Asia

 

Pretty sure that was Vertoe

did he score another 20something MN's
haaa
he definitely deserves that ...>>
 

Yes, sorry for pumping up the stats and driving down your earnings lol
20 more to follow this weekend.

[oblox]

With the wide variance with the MN payouts, why couldn't the MN payment be split by how many active MN's are on the network and paid out evenly on each block? Or would this cause too many micro transactions? Each MN would receive P2Pool-like payouts.

[thelonecrouton]

Would it be possible to offer an anti ddos network for business?

in other words, the to be reached ip is hidden by DRK TOR therefore the DDOS attack would only be succesful if all masternodes would be attacked. Companies would pay for this service thats for sure.

Kind of  powerpumped anti ddos network

Distributed webhosting, sure...  

edit: This alone is potentially worth serious money.

[vertoe]

With the wide variance with the MN payouts, why couldn't the MN payment be split by how many active MN's are on the network and paid out evenly on each block? Or would this cause too many micro transactions? Each MN would receive P2Pool-like payouts.

Too much dust. And blwoing up the blockchain if there are 800 vouts for simply the block reward.

[thefrog]

If open bazzar acceptés darkcoin would we need darktor  Just thinking out loud

open bazaar = market place
dark tor = deep net

From the brief look I've had at OB you can pay with whatever multisig-capable currency you like, the payment side is completely up to the multisig parties. As vertoe has already sussed, all that really needs doing is some kind of selector / filter for DRK maybe. And possibly better packaging so it's a 1-click install, although it's not exactly difficult as is.

Anyone who wants a distributed marketplace should have a play with it, maybe come up with some (or noodle with existing) DRK artwork that would fit if you'd like to see a rebranded DarkBazaar.

I strictly want to avoid rebranding or forking OpenBazaar. It's not good to have two networks one for BTC and one for DRK, the goal really should be to be able to simply choose the coin you want to sign your stuff with inside the OB network.

+1 for OB
with coin choice

[oblox]

If open bazzar acceptés darkcoin would we need darktor  Just thinking out loud

open bazaar = market place
dark tor = deep net

From the brief look I've had at OB you can pay with whatever multisig-capable currency you like, the payment side is completely up to the multisig parties. As vertoe has already sussed, all that really needs doing is some kind of selector / filter for DRK maybe. And possibly better packaging so it's a 1-click install, although it's not exactly difficult as is.

Anyone who wants a distributed marketplace should have a play with it, maybe come up with some (or noodle with existing) DRK artwork that would fit if you'd like to see a rebranded DarkBazaar.

I strictly want to avoid rebranding or forking OpenBazaar. It's not good to have two networks one for BTC and one for DRK, the goal really should be to be able to simply choose the coin you want to sign your stuff with inside the OB network.

+1 for OB
with coin choice

Agreed.