[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[tombtc]

Imagine the few people dumping like 2-3k darks when the price is like $200 and there are not that many coins in the circulation. It's gonna be a hell of a rollercoaster! I mean when a few of them will do it, panic will start and then who will deposit their 1000's to an exchange first 

[1714851367]

1714851367

[Ignition75]

Would be great to eventually brand and name it something that promotes these aspects of its use.  I love Tor and its capabilities, just hate the word Tor as it has been smeared in the mainstream. But makes sense to call it DarkTor in the present stages as it easily explains what it is.

Could call it DarkMesh or something similar so its not "Tor"

+1

Nice name. Trademark it.

make it simple and don't use Tor: Dark Net

DarkNet initially sprang to mind as well... Then when it gets pimped, DarkNet+...

[RenegadeMan]

Your legitimate concern will not be understood well, is likely to be labeled as FUD and you may even be considered a troll now by people who are unfamiliar with strategic thinking, corporate vision and communication, long term outlook, marketing and promotion, product management, human psychology, public relations and so on. However, I do feel you 100%, marketing-wise, we're likely taking another step backwards (with the suggested DarkTor) or at least we're making it even more difficult to reach mainstream adoption. It's as if this is an unknown world to the core darkcoin supporters? Despite the wonderful technical innovation, the more darkness there will be in the image of the product, the less mainstream this product will end up being in my opinion (please understand the consequences). Most people look at the name/image/package of the product, rather than the superiority of the innerworkings (take Doge as a hint from within the crypto world).

I'm well aware that Evan has explicitly said that several features, including the name are now "locked in". Community members have said "it's already been discussed", but this is not really true (check the first few pages of this thread). I sincerely hope that some day Evan reconsiders the name. Doesn't he want to take his precious out there for everyone to enjoy? I'm starting to have some doubts to be honest. Try convincing non-tech, non-cryptocurrency people about the wonders of Darkcoin. Not easy. Not easy at all. All they hear is "dark", "dark", "dark" and their mind associates it with bad/illegal things. The general public doesn't like the name at all. I've undergone test cases which left me with an upset feeling in my stomach.

I've been thinking about this for a long time now, and the short answer is that Darkcoin deserves a much better 'mainstream' name to make promotion a much easier task "outside the crypto/tech world". Imho the name "ecash" could be a potential winner, as often used here in this forum. I like this one a lot and see no issues with it from a marketing perspective, but unfortunately this has been and is still used officially by certain organizations (needs to be investigated more deeply). We could however make it clear to everyone that this is ours to take.

Since this is clearly not the place to have an efficient and grown up intelligent discussion on branding, marketing and PR, I kindly invite you and anyone who shares the same concern to visit the darkcointalk.org thread I opened on 24/05/2014 (https://darkcointalk.org/threads/10-reasons-to-invest-in-darkcoin.814/#post-4804). Share your opinion and solutions to the issue. Let's see if we can work together to at least present alternatives to Evan which are a lot easier to market.

People need to stop thinking about what 'they' like, and consider what the general public likes.

Thanks Nthelight, you've added much to what I'm trying to articulate.

And before everyone jumps down our throats with a collective repulsion of: "stop worrying about 'what the public wants' and the 'mainstream' as DRK isn't about making 'the public' happy", you MUST understand that branding and public opinion are massively important to the success of a product or service, even if it's going to remain relatively niche. You simply cannot underestimate how badly this could turn out and how toxic the term "DarkCoin" could so easily become if perceptions are not carefully managed. The attitude here is quite often "f^*@ them, what would they know" and that's guaranteed to make DRK fail.

This bit you wrote...

#01 - The branding provides, in my humble opinion, challenges towards large market adoption. Merchants are not likely to readily accept darkcoin due to its associations with illicit activities, whether it's justified or not. The least you could say is that it's not mainstream and is effectively somewhat branded to end up in a niche market. When customers and businesses buy or accept darkcoins, they will reconsider or get rid off it when the image of illegality is omnipresent. You bought darkcoins? So, you're a criminal? What do you have to hide? Anyone, including the believers, will continue to associate dark technology with illicit activities, because it may briefly make the price go up. If you do not understand how damaging this will be to the image and value of the product, then you need to stop for a minute and try to think about the longer term and the big picture. Soon there may be no difference in people's mind between darkcoin, dark network and the infamous dark web. I find this the quintessential reason why Darkcoin MAY fail entirely, despite it's innovation.

...is key to the risk I've been talking about. If the factors above are not considered DRK will come unstuck badly. Having great technology is just one factor in a product's success (and, of course, a very important one) but the other factors around branding and perception are way more critical for long term sustainability/survival.

Thanks for your input, I will post over in that thread you've mentioned.

[vertoe]

I vote for vertoe to be an official dev!

Lol, a dev who does not develop? Or do you want me to develop for darkcoin?
Unfortunately, that's only possible if someone pays me for that as I got to feed 2 kids.

Are you developer?

In some way, yes. But not for DRK

[Minotaur26]

Imagine the few people dumping like 2-3k darks when the price is like $200 and there are not that many coins in the circulation. It's gonna be a hell of a rollercoaster! I mean when a few of them will do it, panic will start and then who will deposit their 1000's to an exchange first 

Passive recurrent income is a powerful thing the annual return on the 200K a masternode would be worth at that time would be far superior than having that fiat in the bank.  It definitely will be interesting, but one thing is clear  DRK will be much more valuable in the future so at this price is a no brainer! We can see about the details later for now is buy as much as you can.

[thelonecrouton]

The existing establishment is going to throw untold amounts of money at a media blitzkrieg for many years to come, it's gonna get really ugly before it gets better for Crypto, but as Alex said, 75% of the world is without banking and developed infrastructure, we have to ride Google's wave of getting cheap smartphones into the hands of the masses to show all their ads, and just make sure we have a super light and secure Darkcoin app running in the background  

There's already an Android wallet. It's on Play. If anyone hasn't used it yet, take it for a spin, tell the dev you like it, send him half a DRK... to work with DS+ AFAICT he just needs to update to the latest daemon and launch it with darksend enabled, rounds set to 2, and a new anonymised balance widget on screen.

So donate a small amount and ask politely for an RC4 update.  

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=hashengineering.darkcoin.wallet&hl=en

github: anyone with Android dev experience can pull it and experiment - https://github.com/HashEngineering/darkcoin-wallet

[Ignition75]

The existing establishment is going to throw untold amounts of money at a media blitzkrieg for many years to come, it's gonna get really ugly before it gets better for Crypto, but as Alex said, 75% of the world is without banking and developed infrastructure, we have to ride Google's wave of getting cheap smartphones into the hands of the masses to show all their ads, and just make sure we have a super light and secure Darkcoin app running in the background  

There's already an Android wallet. It's on Play. If anyone hasn't used it yet, take it for a spin, tell the dev you like it, send him half a DRK... to work with DS+ AFAICT he just needs to update to the latest daemon and launch it with darksend enabled, rounds set to 2, and a new anonymised balance widget on screen.

So donate a small amount and ask politely for an RC4 update.  

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=hashengineering.darkcoin.wallet&hl=en

github: anyone with Android dev experience can pull it and experiment - https://github.com/HashEngineering/darkcoin-wallet

Downloading it now, thanks 

[RenegadeMan]

I think RenegadeMan lack of global vision. We are not talking about US service or EU service, we are talking about something can help people all around the world.

China, Iran, Pakistan, Russia, some african countries, most of arab countries like Siria, Egipt, etc.. there are a lot of countries which are not regular democracies like US and EU. Every day journalists, freedom fighters are killed all around the world.

I fully understand what DRK's going to do for the millions of people in the world for who privacy isn't just something nice to have, their very life depends on it.

Contrary to some of the comments on here (which are hardly a surprise, so many people aren't able to think through counterpoint issues, they just return to a default position of rejecting even constructive criticism) I'm not misunderstanding the enormity of what DRK's potentially going to bring to the wider world. I'm talking about the risk to DRK of government and big business facilitating a whipping up of extreme public negative sentiment towards it resulting in a witch-hunt style of attack on anyone involved in running DRK MNs and/or DRK related businesses/services.

It's the risk to DRK of it becoming publicly associated first and foremost as a "criminals' network" that I'm highlighting, not whether DRK has validity, everyone here knows it does. The level of anonymity and privacy offered is a fundamental right that we all should be upholding.

I'm talking about the risk DRK faces and whether we can mitigate that risk to some extent.

So is just a marketing issue? Just spread the map I published. Freedom is a rare thing in our world! We need to make people think about that.

I had the exact same attitude as RenegadeMan when I first discovered Darkcoin, then I realised, it's this attitude that empowers the existing way of things.  You almost have to break free of this mental prism you are programmed with growing up in a developed society.

The world is thirsty for a change, whenever I'm on the street talking to regular folk about Crypto, I say that it gives the ability for people to exchange money, securely, without the need for banks...  You should see their eyes light up... Then the programming kicks on, "Oh I heard Bitcoin is not secure, what happened to that exchange that lost all it's money?"...

The existing establishment is going to throw untold amounts of money at a media blitzkrieg for many years to come, it's gonna get really ugly before it gets better for Crypto, but as Alex said, 75% of the world is without banking and developed infrastructure, we have to ride Google's wave of getting cheap smartphones into the hands of the masses to show all their ads, and just make sure we have a super light and secure Darkcoin app running in the background  

Ignition I have spent decades questioning almost every aspect of how we live, why we accept things being the way they are and why banks have become so powerful. I have an extensive knowledge of the greatest scam in the history of the world (guv issued fiat) that we've all been subject to for decades now and what a house of cards it involves.

I am not a person that has "this attitude that empowers the existing way of things".

I seem to be having the same difficulty here with everyone not peering down into the next layer of the argument I'm putting up here but simply returning to their comfort level around what THEY think DRK is all about.

I love what DRK stands for, what Evan's created and the potential for the millions who ABSOLUTELY NEED this technology to set them free. I'm not thinking from within the constraints of typical brainwashed westernised financial slavery that has trouble breaking away from rules, regulations and the status quo. I'm specifically talking about the risk to DRK from a runaway incorrect public perception. Just because we know what it's really about and we know the potential for good does not mean this is how it will be understood by society in general. At this point I would say the potential for it to be seen as an illegal network supporting criminal activity is way way stronger than it being seen as a tool to set people free.

A branding/positioning issue exists and all the techo/libertarian/cool conversations in the world aren't going to shift that. It needs consideration along the lines of Nthelight's posting above.

[Minotaur26]

I think Darkcoin is a great brand it is immediately relevant and spurs interest, if it wasnt called Darkcoin I probably wouldnt have paid attention to it in the beginning. It is not boring and the media will love it, will it become infamous I dont know but it is great for stories and we will have to make an effort to educate the public.

[erok]

Yes, it was a poor launch but Dark has evolved into so much more than it's beginnings.

I agree with that entirely.

[salmion]

I think RenegadeMan lack of global vision. We are not talking about US service or EU service, we are talking about something can help people all around the world.

China, Iran, Pakistan, Russia, some african countries, most of arab countries like Siria, Egipt, etc.. there are a lot of countries which are not regular democracies like US and EU. Every day journalists, freedom fighters are killed all around the world.

I fully understand what DRK's going to do for the millions of people in the world for who privacy isn't just something nice to have, their very life depends on it.

Contrary to some of the comments on here (which are hardly a surprise, so many people aren't able to think through counterpoint issues, they just return to a default position of rejecting even constructive criticism) I'm not misunderstanding the enormity of what DRK's potentially going to bring to the wider world. I'm talking about the risk to DRK of government and big business facilitating a whipping up of extreme public negative sentiment towards it resulting in a witch-hunt style of attack on anyone involved in running DRK MNs and/or DRK related businesses/services.

It's the risk to DRK of it becoming publicly associated first and foremost as a "criminals' network" that I'm highlighting, not whether DRK has validity, everyone here knows it does. The level of anonymity and privacy offered is a fundamental right that we all should be upholding.

I'm talking about the risk DRK faces and whether we can mitigate that risk to some extent.

So is just a marketing issue? Just spread the map I published. Freedom is a rare thing in our world! We need to make people think about that.

I had the exact same attitude as RenegadeMan when I first discovered Darkcoin, then I realised, it's this attitude that empowers the existing way of things.  You almost have to break free of this mental prism you are programmed with growing up in a developed society.

The world is thirsty for a change, whenever I'm on the street talking to regular folk about Crypto, I say that it gives the ability for people to exchange money, securely, without the need for banks...  You should see their eyes light up... Then the programming kicks on, "Oh I heard Bitcoin is not secure, what happened to that exchange that lost all it's money?"...

The existing establishment is going to throw untold amounts of money at a media blitzkrieg for many years to come, it's gonna get really ugly before it gets better for Crypto, but as Alex said, 75% of the world is without banking and developed infrastructure, we have to ride Google's wave of getting cheap smartphones into the hands of the masses to show all their ads, and just make sure we have a super light and secure Darkcoin app running in the background  

Ignition I have spent decades questioning almost every aspect of how we live, why we accept things being the way they are and why banks have become so powerful. I have an extensive knowledge of the greatest scam in the history of the world (guv issued fiat) that we've all been subject to for decades now and what a house of cards it involves.

I am not a person that has "this attitude that empowers the existing way of things".

I seem to be having the same difficulty here with everyone not peering down into the next layer of the argument I'm putting up here but simply returning to their comfort level around what THEY think DRK is all about.

I love what DRK stands for, what Evan's created and the potential for the millions who ABSOLUTELY NEED this technology to set them free. I'm not thinking from within the constraints of typical brainwashed westernised financial slavery that has trouble breaking away from rules, regulations and the status quo. I'm specifically talking about the risk to DRK from a runaway incorrect public perception. Just because we know what it's really about and we know the potential for good does not mean this is how it will be understood by society in general. At this point I would say the potential for it to be seen as an illegal network supporting criminal activity is way way stronger than it being seen as a tool to set people free.

A branding/positioning issue exists and all the techo/libertarian/cool conversations in the world aren't going to shift that. It needs consideration along the lines of Nthelight's posting above.

Start a branding/positioning thread on darkcointalk

Let's craft some messaging, get a campaign together. Distribute the ones officially endorsed. Can't hurt spreads awareness. And establishes a message before one is put out for us that isn't correct.

*edit and I'm not talking about changing the name!*

[tungfa]

Darkcoin roars back, gains over 200% in 24h

http://dcmagnates.com/darkcoin-roars-back-gains-over-200-in-24h/

 

[Ignition75]

Ignition I have spent decades questioning almost every aspect of how we live, why we accept things being the way they are and why banks have become so powerful. I have an extensive knowledge of the greatest scam in the history of the world (guv issued fiat) that we've all been subject to for decades now and what a house of cards it involves.

I am not a person that has "this attitude that empowers the existing way of things".

I seem to be having the same difficulty here with everyone not peering down into the next layer of the argument I'm putting up here but simply returning to their comfort level around what THEY think DRK is all about.

I love what DRK stands for, what Evan's created and the potential for the millions who ABSOLUTELY NEED this technology to set them free. I'm not thinking from within the constraints of typical brainwashed westernised financial slavery that has trouble breaking away from rules, regulations and the status quo. I'm specifically talking about the risk to DRK from a runaway incorrect public perception. Just because we know what it's really about and we know the potential for good does not mean this is how it will be understood by society in general. At this point I would say the potential for it to be seen as an illegal network supporting criminal activity is way way stronger than it being seen as a tool to set people free.

A branding/positioning issue exists and all the techo/libertarian/cool conversations in the world aren't going to shift that. It needs consideration along the lines of Nthelight's posting above.

I've worked for the banks, for many years, at a senior level... I've seen the ugliness first hand and I'm fully aware of what they are capable of...

If we meet them head on, using the same tools, we will never win...

By changing the way people think, you cut the snake off at the head...

I hear what you are saying, completely, I just feel that worrying about it and trying to combat it at that level will be futile...  We will need to think outside the box and try a different tact...

Already now, my girlfriend watches all the commercial dramas on TV, I listen in the background sometimes, for the last 6 months they have been linking Bitcoin to money laundering, terrorism and paedophiles... What you are saying is happening now and it's a very real problem...

My concern is, if we change our product or strategy based on fear, they have already won...

[CHAOSiTEC]

Whatever exchange you use, make sure you have activated 2FA, if you have trouble with it, dont leave ANY coins on ANY exchange.

i had trouble with my 2FA so i got it disabled, but i didnt take out my coins as soon as cryptsy had disabled it, and in less than 24 hours, i had lost my 131 drk.

Since i have 2FA on my gmail, they could not just withdraw, so what they did instead was trade all my coins to GDC and sold it to another account...

So, Please remember, USE 2FA AT ALL TIMES! and if not, make sure you dont have any coins ANYWHERE else but your wallet (with backup of your wallet.dat)

so now im starting from scratch again... sigh..


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[ddink7]

Guys, I'm so tired of the endless debate on the name. Yes, I understand that a brand is extremely important, but we are taking it a bit too far, aren't we?

The word "dark," to most people, simply means "absence of light" or "hidden from sight." It does not, to most people, immediately imply "evil" or "child porn" or "murder for hire." The word, in the context within which it's used, simply means "hidden coins."

[Btcvilla]

Im just pumping and dumping this worthless coin.

[bigrcanada]

The existing establishment is going to throw untold amounts of money at a media blitzkrieg for many years to come, it's gonna get really ugly before it gets better for Crypto, but as Alex said, 75% of the world is without banking and developed infrastructure, we have to ride Google's wave of getting cheap smartphones into the hands of the masses to show all their ads, and just make sure we have a super light and secure Darkcoin app running in the background  

There's already an Android wallet. It's on Play. If anyone hasn't used it yet, take it for a spin, tell the dev you like it, send him half a DRK... to work with DS+ AFAICT he just needs to update to the latest daemon and launch it with darksend enabled, rounds set to 2, and a new anonymised balance widget on screen.

So donate a small amount and ask politely for an RC4 update.  

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=hashengineering.darkcoin.wallet&hl=en

github: anyone with Android dev experience can pull it and experiment - https://github.com/HashEngineering/darkcoin-wallet

Downloading it now,
thanks 

Holy Shit... i didnt kniw this existed yet! that is really really cool.

[Terzo]

well well , after RC5 and open source DRK is going to be complete ANON COIN !

[RenegadeMan]

Ignition I have spent decades questioning almost every aspect of how we live, why we accept things being the way they are and why banks have become so powerful. I have an extensive knowledge of the greatest scam in the history of the world (guv issued fiat) that we've all been subject to for decades now and what a house of cards it involves.

I am not a person that has "this attitude that empowers the existing way of things".

I seem to be having the same difficulty here with everyone not peering down into the next layer of the argument I'm putting up here but simply returning to their comfort level around what THEY think DRK is all about.

I love what DRK stands for, what Evan's created and the potential for the millions who ABSOLUTELY NEED this technology to set them free. I'm not thinking from within the constraints of typical brainwashed westernised financial slavery that has trouble breaking away from rules, regulations and the status quo. I'm specifically talking about the risk to DRK from a runaway incorrect public perception. Just because we know what it's really about and we know the potential for good does not mean this is how it will be understood by society in general. At this point I would say the potential for it to be seen as an illegal network supporting criminal activity is way way stronger than it being seen as a tool to set people free.

A branding/positioning issue exists and all the techo/libertarian/cool conversations in the world aren't going to shift that. It needs consideration along the lines of Nthelight's posting above.

I've worked for the banks, for many years, at a senior level... I've seen the ugliness first hand and I'm fully aware of what they are capable of...

If we meet them head on, using the same tools, we will never win...

By changing the way people think, you cut the snake off at the head...

I hear what you are saying, completely, I just feel that worrying about it and trying to combat it at that level will be futile...  We will need to think outside the box and try a different tact...

Already now, my girlfriend watches all the commercial dramas on TV, I listen in the background sometimes, for the last 6 months they have been linking Bitcoin to money laundering, terrorism and paedophiles... What you are saying is happening now and it's a very real problem...

What I'm saying, is if we change our product or strategy based on fear, they have already won...

Okay, great. Agree totally, reset the platform upon which this stuff sits/get people to "think" using different tools/techniques (but we'll still need one foot in the existing modus operandi of "marketing/product positioning" or we'll never connect to enough people to get some sort of critical mass). The important point is consideration of DRK's outbound messaging is fundamentally important and we need to get ahead of the situation before it "forks" off into unrecoverability (look at any failed political campaign and you can generally see where the political party involved lost control of their message early on and failed to recover it).

I think Salmion's suggestion to get this going as a discussion on Darkcointalk is good and Nthelight's invite to that thread on the same forum where he's already put forward many key points around this same issue is worth accepting/being involved with too.

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/10-reasons-to-invest-in-darkcoin.814/#post-4804

[Drobek]

Whatever exchange you use, make sure you have activated 2FA, if you have trouble with it, dont leave ANY coins on ANY exchange.

i had trouble with my 2FA so i got it disabled, but i didnt take out my coins as soon as cryptsy had disabled it, and in less than 24 hours, i had lost my 131 drk.

Since i have 2FA on my gmail, they could not just withdraw, so what they did instead was trade all my coins to GDC and sold it to another account...

So, Please remember, USE 2FA AT ALL TIMES! and if not, make sure you dont have any coins ANYWHERE else but your wallet (with backup of your wallet.dat)

Can I ask you
1) how complicated your pw was?
2) whether you reused the pw on other websites?

I am using 10 characters long unique pw - would you say I still need the 2FA? How could anyone compromise my account?