[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[illodin]

Would it not also incentivize acronym agencies to own exit nodes?

This is a good point.

The smaller the pool of participants the easier it will be to gain a portion of that pool to potentially compromise DarkTor.

One can assume that there will be a portion of Masternode operators who will not want to operate Tor nodes at all.

Lets assume the rest will. There will be a portion within this group that doesn't want to operate exit nodes.

So essentially a spy agency could purchase just enough to compromise the DarkTor network without having to even come close to the power necessary to compromise the Masternode network.

This is a valid concern and something that needs to be considered.

To run a Tor node they wouldn't have to even purchase anything. Do you all agree "DarkTor" would still be better than standard Tor in that regard?

Btw, how are legit companies like F-Secure able to run VPN services (http://freedome.f-secure.com/en/home.html), why don't SWAT raid their offices?

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[erok]

Tor and legality:

- if the provider (exit node owner) has no control over data send through his node and he is not snooping data in any way there is no responsibility for the data handled. This is exactly what Master Node Tor will look like.

ISPs have some obligations on the traffic that they allow through their networks (DarkWallet has been targeted I understand). But ISPs make enforcement based on evidence of illegality and court orders being presented.  

If 99% of DarkTor traffic is legal, then they need to track down those hosting the illegal content. DarkTor nodes are relays like millions of Cisco boxes around the world. No one tries to shut down Cisco boxes.

Except for Verizon! HAHA! Layer 3 gold nugget joke right there!

[Drobek]

Mistake? Will lost in front of the courts and is on probation now.

That looks very strange. Never hear of similar case, the guy must have been involved in something.
Will search for more details, thanks.

Anyway, the same thing may happen for using crypto - exchanging the money is more sensitive than exchanging information

[salmion]

We’re very interested to get the community’s response to see if it’s viable .

I do have concerns about viability of the DarkTor concept.  TOR exit nodes face some challenging liability issues because of the statistical likelihood they will output illegal content at some point (see discussion at https://www.torproject.org/eff/tor-legal-faq).  For that reason many TOR node operators choose to only operate relay nodes. 

If the proposal here is to essentially turn every masternode into a potential TOR exit node (when its turn comes up in some deterministic algorithm), I think that could present new and challenging new legal risks for DRK's masternode operators AND the providers that host them, at least in many jurisdictions.

If that's a serious concern, presumable Evan could set it up so masternodes can opt out of being an exit node (so just be a relay), and have a specific fee paid just to exit nodes. Then the market will sort it out. The less masternodes want to be exit nodes the more the remaining exit nodes will get, adding incentive to be an exit node.

That's a very good idea actually.

Essentially you would be getting paid to be watched and tagged by the government as node passing packets about ton of illegal crap? There is a good idea. But then if that person got hit, post mortem data would point everything back to it's original sender.

Would it not also incentivize acronym agencies to own exit nodes?

Well everyones invited to the party! With the stats for decrypting a darksend+ transaction it takes owning a ridiculous amount of the masternodes to obtain a small percentage probability. And coupled to that is multi-layer ip obfustication of RC5. So it will be difficult. Also their would be multiple countries interested. Will be interesting.

[qwizzie]

Would it not also incentivize acronym agencies to own exit nodes?

This is a good point.

The smaller the pool of participants the easier it will be to gain a portion of that pool to potentially compromise DarkTor.

One can assume that there will be a portion of Masternode operators who will not want to operate Tor nodes at all.

Lets assume the rest will. There will be a portion within this group that doesn't want to operate exit nodes.

So essentially a spy agency could purchase just enough to compromise the DarkTor network without having to even come close to the power necessary to compromise the Masternode network.

This is a valid concern and something that needs to be considered.

To run a Tor node they wouldn't have to even purchase anything. Do you all agree "DarkTor" would still be better than standard Tor in that regard?

Btw, how are legit companies like F-Secure able to run VPN services (http://freedome.f-secure.com/en/home.html), why don't SWAT raid their offices?

maybe we should avoid calling it DarkTor.. maybe we should call it DarkFreedom

[coins101]

It's not a conspiracy to suggest that there are backdoors in computer hardware. It's a fact and we've known about it for a while.

His link has "possibly" in the fuckin title. There is no ANON currency yet including DRK even without the thought of the NSA! Not one currency has had a third party confirm anonymity. If that was the case we would have a gold standard crypto right now. But we don't. But I digress. How will darktor handle exit nodes so people don't get arrested? The update literally was just bugs and this new idea to setup tor on the masternodes. All words of nothingness.

The financial incentive means that there will always be nodes, regardless of what governments do. Look at all the torrent sites if you want evidence. It's impossible to take down all of them.

That has nothing to do with what I am asking.

interesting posts you made on the ANN Cloak thread :



Edit : i'm gonna follow yr own advice and put you on ignore.... over and out.

sorry, who are you putting on ignore?

[coins101]

maybe we should avoid calling it DarkTor.. maybe we should call it DarkFreedom

DRKTor sounds good to me.

Its already got a brand name that people understand.

[qwizzie]

It's not a conspiracy to suggest that there are backdoors in computer hardware. It's a fact and we've known about it for a while.

His link has "possibly" in the fuckin title. There is no ANON currency yet including DRK even without the thought of the NSA! Not one currency has had a third party confirm anonymity. If that was the case we would have a gold standard crypto right now. But we don't. But I digress. How will darktor handle exit nodes so people don't get arrested? The update literally was just bugs and this new idea to setup tor on the masternodes. All words of nothingness.

The financial incentive means that there will always be nodes, regardless of what governments do. Look at all the torrent sites if you want evidence. It's impossible to take down all of them.

That has nothing to do with what I am asking.

interesting posts you made on the ANN Cloak thread :



Edit : i'm gonna follow yr own advice and put you on ignore.... over and out.

sorry, who are you putting on ignore?

erok...

[coins101]

Development Update - 8/19/14

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-update-august-19-2014.2086/

That's pretty newsworthy outside of cryptoland too..

+101

We've got the email addresses of the guys at Wired and CoinDesk.  Where is Fernando when you need someone who writes pretty decently and with DRKPassion.

[thelonecrouton]

maybe we should avoid calling it DarkTor.. maybe we should call it DarkFreedom

DRKTor sounds good to me.

Its already got a brand name that people understand.

DRKTor Who?

[coins101]

It's not a conspiracy to suggest that there are backdoors in computer hardware. It's a fact and we've known about it for a while.

His link has "possibly" in the fuckin title. There is no ANON currency yet including DRK even without the thought of the NSA! Not one currency has had a third party confirm anonymity. If that was the case we would have a gold standard crypto right now. But we don't. But I digress. How will darktor handle exit nodes so people don't get arrested? The update literally was just bugs and this new idea to setup tor on the masternodes. All words of nothingness.

Has anyone ever been sued or prosecuted for running Tor?

No, we aren't aware of anyone being sued or prosecuted in the United States just for running a Tor relay. Further, we believe that running a Tor relay — including an exit relay that allows people to anonymously send and receive traffic — is legal under U.S. law.

Source: Tor Project

https://www.torproject.org/eff/tor-legal-faq

I would suggest there be a dialog for MN operators who don't want to participate in DarkTor when it comes online. Obviously if you are running an exit node, you could possibly draw scrutiny from law enforcement agencies as they see the traffic coming from your IP.

In Australia a guy had his house raided because he was running an exit node. It's something Masternode operators will have to ask themselves. Whether or not they want to possibly put themselves out there like that. If the answer to that question is no they should obviously be able to opt out.

http://www.zdnet.com/austrian-man-raided-for-operating-tor-exit-node-7000008133/

subbed. thanks.

[luke997]

[coins101]

maybe we should avoid calling it DarkTor.. maybe we should call it DarkFreedom

DRKTor sounds good to me.

Its already got a brand name that people understand.

DRKTor Who?

ROFL  

Cheers, Sir Crouton.

[raganius]

Hey there, my friends, I am so glad that things are getting calmer here again. These last days have been so distressful with all the boring trolls and fights. During these days my ignore button helped so much, but still, I have avoided coming here.

But now we have peace again, and that's so good

One awesome thing in these last days was the opportunity everyone had to buy cheap DRKs! I bought as much as I could afford (I wish I could have been able to buy even more) and I am so happy with it.

I'd like, once again, to congratulate Evan, our Dev team, and our community for Darkcoin's achievements.

Now, I would like to know if there are still any Masternode shares services running and accepting new investors. I was participating in vertoe's, and I was very satisfied (vertoe is really great), but unfortunately he had to stop his services, so now I am an orphan of masternode

It's good to be with you guys.

All the best

Try Ghostplayer.. i think he has a link in his signature.

Edit : on second thought he is more involved in setting up MN ... not so much in shares i think .. but contact him anyways.

Thank you, I'll try talking to him

[oblox]

Why couldn't there be a DRK/BTC decentralized exchange? Use the masternodes to host the portal of buys and sells (when an offer is agreed on, the ad is removed from the portal), when someone wants to buy/sell, each respective party puts up their side of the coins to the masternode network, once both send their end of the deal, the masternodes exchange to the other party. In the event one party backs out, the masternode sends it back to the original party. The portal would show up in each client wallet under an exchange tab. Essentially, the MN network acts as a built in escrow.

[othe]

Mistake? Will lost in front of the courts and is on probation now.

That looks very strange. Never hear of similar case, the guy must have been involved in something.
Will search for more details, thanks.

Anyway, the same thing may happen for using crypto - exchanging the money is more sensitive than exchanging information

Dunno in what naive world you life, but normally cops just ask who owns what ip and then storm your house. Doesn´t matter if its an exit node or not. Non-speciliased cops prolly dont even know what exit nodes are.

http://itnomad.wordpress.com/2006/09/10/germany-crackdown-on-tor-node-operators/
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/08/26/0017203/the-eff-reflects-on-ice-seizing-a-tor-exit-node
http://spyblog.org.uk/blog/2009/03/passion-and-dalliance-blog-why-you-need-balls-of-steel-to-operate-a-tor-exit-nod.html
...

Has a reason why every good anonymity service that interacts with the plain WWW has a bunch of lawyers.

[illodin]

I would probably run a couple of masternodes with drk_tor_exitnode=1 config on some VPS provider who accepts DRK payments and is located in some liberal country.

And relaying only with the rest of the nodes.

If this gets implemented, it will be interesting to see how many will run exit nodes. If there won't be enough people doing that, then that's that, maybe there will, maybe there won't.

[erok]

Yeah you are welcome for the constructive criticism. I suppose the crypto community is just used to bogus info. Well I speak truth and ask real questions. Fuck me for that right? Consumer advocacy fuck that right? Great community.

For you Luke997:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560138.0

[TsuyokuNaritai]

Why couldn't there be a DRK/BTC decentralized exchange? Use the masternodes to host the portal of buys and sells (when an offer is agreed on, the ad is removed from the portal), when someone wants to buy/sell, each respective party puts up their side of the coins to the masternode network, once both send their end of the deal, the masternodes exchange to the other party. In the event one party backs out, the masternode sends it back to the original party. The portal would show up in each client wallet under an exchange tab.

To be truly DRK, you'd need a trustless way for a masternode to hold bitcoin. Maybe masternodes taking part in it could have their server do bitcoin walletty things to receive and send a limited amount of bitcoin, up to a total amount that the bitcoin sellers would be happy for the masternode's 1000DRK to act as collateral...

[salmion]

Why couldn't there be a DRK/BTC decentralized exchange? Use the masternodes to host the portal of buys and sells (when an offer is agreed on, the ad is removed from the portal), when someone wants to buy/sell, each respective party puts up their side of the coins to the masternode network, once both send their end of the deal, the masternodes exchange to the other party. In the event one party backs out, the masternode sends it back to the original party. The portal would show up in each client wallet under an exchange tab.

To be truly DRK, you'd need a trustless way for a masternode to hold bitcoin. Maybe masternodes taking part in it could have their server do bitcoin walletty things to receive and send a limited amount of bitcoin, up to a total amount that the bitcoin sellers would be happy for the masternode's 1000DRK to act as collateral...

But they don't need to hold the actual coins in the same way they don't hold actual drk... because that's dangerous.

They shouldn't and don't currently "hold" anything as I understand it.

Swap keys not coins