[POOL][Scrypt][Scrypt-N][X11] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com

[DRKMSTR]

I have a few questions.

1. What if you worked with Cryptsy to allow us to keep the coins instead of instantly trading them? This would allow you to drop the fee a bit as well since you wouldn't have to pay the exchange fee.

2. What if you made a custom version of P2Pool that was more like M2Pool (just made that up) where the multipooling was decentralized.

I know there's a lot involved on the backend (and a lot is an understatement) but think about it. You could reference a few wallets with the nodes, then send the solution information to a few central/command nodes that would also tell the sub-nodes which coin to work on (or just send current coin data). This way DDOS attacks would be mitigated greatly. If you made it well enough, it might even run on it's own. Plus with Cryptsy integration, you wouldn't have to exchange anything. Finally, in order to make it run smoothly and to deter pool hopping even beyond PPLNS, you could have 5mh/s steps built in where for a certain period of time, the source miner mines a junk coin until it's in the system for enough time where it switches to profitable ones. This way the pool doesn't have to worry about getting nuked difficulty.

I know those are crazy suggestions and a decentralized multipool shouldn't be a wafflepool replacement, but it's an idea.

I'd do it myself, but I'm so busy and learning code is taking awhile. It took me all spring to make my own pool and it's decent at best.

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[poolwaffle]

I have a few questions.

1. What if you worked with Cryptsy to allow us to keep the coins instead of instantly trading them? This would allow you to drop the fee a bit as well since you wouldn't have to pay the exchange fee.

2. What if you made a custom version of P2Pool that was more like M2Pool (just made that up) where the multipooling was decentralized.

I know there's a lot involved on the backend (and a lot is an understatement) but think about it. You could reference a few wallets with the nodes, then send the solution information to a few central/command nodes that would also tell the sub-nodes which coin to work on (or just send current coin data). This way DDOS attacks would be mitigated greatly. If you made it well enough, it might even run on it's own. Plus with Cryptsy integration, you wouldn't have to exchange anything. Finally, in order to make it run smoothly and to deter pool hopping even beyond PPLNS, you could have 5mh/s steps built in where for a certain period of time, the source miner mines a junk coin until it's in the system for enough time where it switches to profitable ones. This way the pool doesn't have to worry about getting nuked difficulty.

I know those are crazy suggestions and a decentralized multipool shouldn't be a wafflepool replacement, but it's an idea.

I'd do it myself, but I'm so busy and learning code is taking awhile. It took me all spring to make my own pool and it's decent at best.

1) Has nothing to do with Cryptsy, we're actually working on this, and happens way before we send any coins to Cryptsy (or any exchange)

2) That's an interesting idea.  Unfortunately, I think a lot of the use of a multipool (and hopefully why everyone here sees it as worth it to pay a percent to the pool) is that I get to deal with finding new coins (a few hours each day), making sure coindaemons are up to date, and that we're always (or at least most of the time) mining on the right forks.  If you were to spend a ton of time each day on the same things that I do, you could probably (most days) do better than Wafflepool (or any multipool).  Just because you're a small miner, and you can likely exploit small gaps in the market better than the big guys.  But at the same time, a 3-5% daily increase, and 1.5% saved in fees, for 8-12 hours of your time, is a tough sell.  Which is why a large number of users use a multipool.  Building a p2pool version of a multipool wouldn't be terribly difficulty, but running 30 coindaemons, price pullers, switchers, etc, is a ton of work (lets be honest, not a large number of people will even run just straight p2pool - even though it is almost strictly better than a regular pool).

[aagert]

poolwaffle, do you have plans to add other algos to your pool? Scrypt-N, X11, Groestl are GPU miner friends now, since traditional scrypt coins difficulty rockets up due to ASICs.
I don't think it's too difficult. Create separate pool for each algo by copying your existing code for scrypt. Make different 3rd lvl domains like "x11.wafflepool.com" and "sn.wafflepool.com" and mirror existing frontend code there, just change the databases for new stats. Configure servers in the following way - "one port for one algo", like :3333 = scrypt; :4444 = scrypt-N; :1111 = x11.
Download and sync coins' chains. For start let it be one coin for each pool. Vertcoin for Scrypt-N, DarkCoin for X11. Or may be two. Add other coins later.
So. Will we see something like that soon?

[JHammer]

poolwaffle, do you have plans to add other algos to your pool? Scrypt-N, X11, Groestl are GPU miner friends now, since traditional scrypt coins difficulty rockets up due to ASICs.
I don't think it's too difficult. Create separate pool for each algo by copying your existing code for scrypt. Make different 3rd lvl domains like "x11.wafflepool.com" and "sn.wafflepool.com" and mirror existing frontend code there, just change the databases for new stats. Configure servers in the following way - "one port for one algo", like :3333 = scrypt; :4444 = scrypt-N; :1111 = x11.
Download and sync coins' chains. For start let it be one coin for each pool. Vertcoin for Scrypt-N, DarkCoin for X11. Or may be two. Add other coins later.
So. Will we see something like that soon?

They wont be GPU miner friends for long.. ASIC's will be eating these alive by early next year..

[DRKMSTR]

I have a few questions.

1. What if you worked with Cryptsy to allow us to keep the coins instead of instantly trading them? This would allow you to drop the fee a bit as well since you wouldn't have to pay the exchange fee.

2. What if you made a custom version of P2Pool that was more like M2Pool (just made that up) where the multipooling was decentralized.

I know there's a lot involved on the backend (and a lot is an understatement) but think about it. You could reference a few wallets with the nodes, then send the solution information to a few central/command nodes that would also tell the sub-nodes which coin to work on (or just send current coin data). This way DDOS attacks would be mitigated greatly. If you made it well enough, it might even run on it's own. Plus with Cryptsy integration, you wouldn't have to exchange anything. Finally, in order to make it run smoothly and to deter pool hopping even beyond PPLNS, you could have 5mh/s steps built in where for a certain period of time, the source miner mines a junk coin until it's in the system for enough time where it switches to profitable ones. This way the pool doesn't have to worry about getting nuked difficulty.

I know those are crazy suggestions and a decentralized multipool shouldn't be a wafflepool replacement, but it's an idea.

I'd do it myself, but I'm so busy and learning code is taking awhile. It took me all spring to make my own pool and it's decent at best.

1) Has nothing to do with Cryptsy, we're actually working on this, and happens way before we send any coins to Cryptsy (or any exchange)

2) That's an interesting idea.  Unfortunately, I think a lot of the use of a multipool (and hopefully why everyone here sees it as worth it to pay a percent to the pool) is that I get to deal with finding new coins (a few hours each day), making sure coindaemons are up to date, and that we're always (or at least most of the time) mining on the right forks.  If you were to spend a ton of time each day on the same things that I do, you could probably (most days) do better than Wafflepool (or any multipool).  Just because you're a small miner, and you can likely exploit small gaps in the market better than the big guys.  But at the same time, a 3-5% daily increase, and 1.5% saved in fees, for 8-12 hours of your time, is a tough sell.  Which is why a large number of users use a multipool.  Building a p2pool version of a multipool wouldn't be terribly difficulty, but running 30 coindaemons, price pullers, switchers, etc, is a ton of work (lets be honest, not a large number of people will even run just straight p2pool - even though it is almost strictly better than a regular pool).

Cool, I'm glad you're looking at that option, personally I'm exchanging all my BitCoin for DogeCoin at the moment. (P2Pool was 12k Doge/day, WafflePool exchanged gets me 14k-18k )

As far as P2Pool goes, the particular pool I made was a custom form of P2Pool for mining DogeCoin. It worked great, with a few tricks I was able to get the efficiency around 114% average, with a range from 109% - 120% on unlucky/lucky days. Unfortunately there are a few problems with the P2Pool network on DogeCoin.
1. The required / integrated generation of 10,000 DogeCoin blocks
 - This seems to be a glitch coded somewhere in the DogeCoin wallet that creates problems on certain P2Pools, keeping them from generating regular blocks.
2. Multipooling
 - Even though there's PPLNS, there seems to be a few resource jumpers who watch for low share difficulty and then switch which end up nuking the system. (Share diff goes from 1.3 to 4-5)
3. Node consistency
 - The secret to a high efficiency rate is low rejects and fast connections to many nodes. This way you can confirm your shares before somebody else can.

Anyways, on an ideal system (like mine) through fiber cable + cat6A shielded patch cable in between devices I could get a network (getwork) latency of 5.6ms on the high end.

A simple suggestion I would like to put forth is to update your nodes (addnode) on each of your coin daemons a drop from 50ms to 13ms boosted me quite a bit in my efficiency and only took the addition of about 2 nodes. I look at it the same way as I gamed, if you and somebody else on the network both do something at the same time, who will win? The guy who can talk to the system faster.

[TheFuneral]

anyone here have experience with optimizing gridseeds to run on wafflepool? Mine seem to be running at 3-5mh/s when on my side they report being at 7mh/s. Is this normal for other gridseed users?

[merkin51]

poolwaffle, do you have plans to add other algos to your pool? Scrypt-N, X11, Groestl are GPU miner friends now, since traditional scrypt coins difficulty rockets up due to ASICs.
I don't think it's too difficult. Create separate pool for each algo by copying your existing code for scrypt. Make different 3rd lvl domains like "x11.wafflepool.com" and "sn.wafflepool.com" and mirror existing frontend code there, just change the databases for new stats. Configure servers in the following way - "one port for one algo", like :3333 = scrypt; :4444 = scrypt-N; :1111 = x11.
Download and sync coins' chains. For start let it be one coin for each pool. Vertcoin for Scrypt-N, DarkCoin for X11. Or may be two. Add other coins later.
So. Will we see something like that soon?

I'd like to know this as well, despite what JHammer says. Good chance these coins will resist ASIC for a while.

[JHammer]

poolwaffle, do you have plans to add other algos to your pool? Scrypt-N, X11, Groestl are GPU miner friends now, since traditional scrypt coins difficulty rockets up due to ASICs.
I don't think it's too difficult. Create separate pool for each algo by copying your existing code for scrypt. Make different 3rd lvl domains like "x11.wafflepool.com" and "sn.wafflepool.com" and mirror existing frontend code there, just change the databases for new stats. Configure servers in the following way - "one port for one algo", like :3333 = scrypt; :4444 = scrypt-N; :1111 = x11.
Download and sync coins' chains. For start let it be one coin for each pool. Vertcoin for Scrypt-N, DarkCoin for X11. Or may be two. Add other coins later.
So. Will we see something like that soon?

I'd like to know this as well, despite what JHammer says. Good chance these coins will resist ASIC for a while.

I have GPU's to so I hope so..   But afraid it wont be long..  And 6 months in this hobby, is like 100 years in normal time..

[Mapuo]

anyone here have experience with optimizing gridseeds to run on wafflepool? Mine seem to be running at 3-5mh/s when on my side they report being at 7mh/s. Is this normal for other gridseed users?

cpuminer with autotune.

[JHammer]

anyone here have experience with optimizing gridseeds to run on wafflepool? Mine seem to be running at 3-5mh/s when on my side they report being at 7mh/s. Is this normal for other gridseed users?

I have GPU's at home and Greedspeeds hosted.. So I don't see and cant do much tweaking of my GS's

But I have noticed what my GPU's report to me, is a little low compared to what WP reports..  Like GPU's are steady at 3.2 MH's but WP reports anywhere from 3.2 to 4.0

But for my GS's WP reports a little low compared to what my Hosted UI reports.. Hosted UI reports steady 24.8 MH's,   WP reports 22 to 24.   I assume this is due to the small amount of errors the GS's get..

[poolwaffle]

Quick update guys.

We've got a ton of stuff in the pipeline, hopefully finishing up in the next week or so, however none of it is small changes, so while it looks like nothing is happening, thats actually a really good thing, because it means I haven't broken anything miserably.

Things I'm actively working on
- Expanding clusters in USW and SEA, both are getting a little close to capacity, both will be roughly doubled, possibly slightly more.  They're syncing blockchains now, and will be up later today (hopefully).
- Alternative payout currencies.  This is unfortunately a huge change, and deals with payouts, so I'm trying to be as careful as possible, this probably has another week or so to go, but is coming along at least a bit
- More algorithms for switching, X11, Scrypt-n, etc.  These aren't as difficult of a change, they're just something that will need careful planning for the updates (have to update some very large database tables), as well as some sizable changes to our stratum endpoints (this is less risky/problematic, since I can pull a server out of a cluster, upgrade it, and put it back in, repeat).

Thats all I've got for now, just wanted to give you guys an update on whats planned, and whats being worked on, and where WP is going over the next few weeks

[suchmoon]

- More algorithms for switching, X11, Scrypt-n, etc

Are you thinking about separate pools for each algorithm, or integrated switching across all coins making use of sgminer kernel hot-swapping?

This is going to be fun. GPU vs ASIC showdown .

[JHammer]

- More algorithms for switching, X11, Scrypt-n, etc

Are you thinking about separate pools for each algorithm, or integrated switching across all coins making use of sgminer kernel hot-swapping?

This is going to be fun. GPU vs ASIC showdown .

I am pretty sure PW does not want to lose 80% of his hash rate.. 

[poolwaffle]

- More algorithms for switching, X11, Scrypt-n, etc

Are you thinking about separate pools for each algorithm, or integrated switching across all coins making use of sgminer kernel hot-swapping?

This is going to be fun. GPU vs ASIC showdown .

The simple start is separated ports for people to choose, once those are up, we can see how much work the kernel swapping is

The modifications to the stratum servers for new algorithms are reasonably simple (proof of work functions, new coins, etc).  The bigger change is in the DB and making sure they're all separated (earnings, shares, etc), right now everything is just assumed to be Scrypt.  Need to split it up

[DRKMSTR]

anyone here have experience with optimizing gridseeds to run on wafflepool? Mine seem to be running at 3-5mh/s when on my side they report being at 7mh/s. Is this normal for other gridseed users?

What software are you using? What is your frequency?

Here's a quick tp: Double check your power connectors, sometimes they don't have a good connection which can give you 5-7MH/s intermittent, but still only get around 2.7 at pools. I only had one of my blades running for 2 days, what a waste.

The easiest way to check is watch the green lights and make sure they come on at least once per minute. I'm no genius, I only have 1 GBlade.

Thanks,
-DM

[DRKMSTR]

Quick update guys.

We've got a ton of stuff in the pipeline, hopefully finishing up in the next week or so, however none of it is small changes, so while it looks like nothing is happening, thats actually a really good thing, because it means I haven't broken anything miserably.

Things I'm actively working on
- Expanding clusters in USW and SEA, both are getting a little close to capacity, both will be roughly doubled, possibly slightly more.  They're syncing blockchains now, and will be up later today (hopefully).
- Alternative payout currencies.  This is unfortunately a huge change, and deals with payouts, so I'm trying to be as careful as possible, this probably has another week or so to go, but is coming along at least a bit
- More algorithms for switching, X11, Scrypt-n, etc.  These aren't as difficult of a change, they're just something that will need careful planning for the updates (have to update some very large database tables), as well as some sizable changes to our stratum endpoints (this is less risky/problematic, since I can pull a server out of a cluster, upgrade it, and put it back in, repeat).

Thats all I've got for now, just wanted to give you guys an update on whats planned, and whats being worked on, and where WP is going over the next few weeks

If you're looking at alternative payouts, does that mean you'll have to make an account system? Could you make sure there are still account-less options?

If people have to make accounts, you'll need some serious support (or 24 hr sleep deprivation for the first day or so)

If you're looking for helpful people, I'm available

[diwskwmx]

All sounds great to me, keep up the good work!

[poolwaffle]

Quick update guys.

We've got a ton of stuff in the pipeline, hopefully finishing up in the next week or so, however none of it is small changes, so while it looks like nothing is happening, thats actually a really good thing, because it means I haven't broken anything miserably.

Things I'm actively working on
- Expanding clusters in USW and SEA, both are getting a little close to capacity, both will be roughly doubled, possibly slightly more.  They're syncing blockchains now, and will be up later today (hopefully).
- Alternative payout currencies.  This is unfortunately a huge change, and deals with payouts, so I'm trying to be as careful as possible, this probably has another week or so to go, but is coming along at least a bit
- More algorithms for switching, X11, Scrypt-n, etc.  These aren't as difficult of a change, they're just something that will need careful planning for the updates (have to update some very large database tables), as well as some sizable changes to our stratum endpoints (this is less risky/problematic, since I can pull a server out of a cluster, upgrade it, and put it back in, repeat).

Thats all I've got for now, just wanted to give you guys an update on whats planned, and whats being worked on, and where WP is going over the next few weeks

If you're looking at alternative payouts, does that mean you'll have to make an account system? Could you make sure there are still account-less options?

If people have to make accounts, you'll need some serious support (or 24 hr sleep deprivation for the first day or so)

If you're looking for helpful people, I'm available

The plan is to make everything non-account based.  To change something you'll need to copy/paste a string to sign from your wallet, and paste the signature back to WP.  Essentially, you'll sign a string like "doge=xxxxxxx, ltc=yyyyyyyy", and we'll confirm it was signed by your address, and save those settings

We'll obviously need to take some screenshots of how to sign a message (varies by client), but thats what we've got so far

[JHammer]

Minor question for PW when he has a second..

When looking at my Hash Rate on the WP site it states (15min approximated)

But if I hit refresh over and over my hash rate sill bounces all around..

So what does (15min approximated) Mean exactly?


  Thanks!

[poolwaffle]

Minor question for PW when he has a second..

When looking at my Hash Rate on the WP site it states (15min approximated)

But if I hit refresh over and over my hash rate sill bounces all around..

So what does (15min approximated) Mean exactly?


  Thanks!

Its our approximation of your hashrate over 15min

Your local miner knows exactly what rate you're hashing at.  However, we only see when you find a share over 512 (this is the only time you send us data).  So we can only estimate based on how often we see a 512 share.  That means that if you get really lucky, and find 2 in quick succession, or go a longer time than normal without finding one (both of these are extremely common), we can't tell if it was you just getting lucky, or if you're a big/small miner.  So we average out how many 512 shares we see over 15min, and use that to guess your mining speed.

This is called variance (sort of), go read more about variance