PowerOut
Newbie
 Offline
Activity: 1
Merit: 0
|
 |
March 31, 2014, 12:47:51 AM |
|
We've been the lowest fee profit-switching pool since our start, but we do have to raise the pool fee from 1%, to 2%.
In an effort to keep with the transparency that this pool has always tried to put forth, a full explanation of the reasoning/rationality follows.
Essentially, it is nearly impossible to run the pool the way I'd like it to be run at a 1% fee. Of that fee, a huge portion comes off the top immediately to exchange fees. Using cryptsy as the example because most of our exchanging happens there, we lose 0.3% immediately. We also lose a bit (depending on the coin) to transaction fees to get coins from our account, to the exchange, a bit more from the exchange to our bitcoin account, and a decently large chunk in bitcoin fees (this has gone down in 0.9, but its still a decent amount with our volume of low-priority coins) when we run payouts (and a lot more on sundays when we run 0.001 minimums).
After all of these fees, plus hosting costs (which have doubled due to the DDOS and constant attacks on our boxes), DDOS protection, server monitoring, etc, we're left with an extremely small amount for actually running the pool. At the end of the day, with me working on the pool for 40hrs/wk (a very conservative estimate), I'm looking at what amounts to a manager's job at walmart. Except the manager at walmart doesn't get woken up nightly due to server pages.
Essentially, for me to be able to justify the amount of work I put in on wafflepool, I need to raise the fees.
I've been wrestling with the decision for a few weeks now, and during the start of the DDOS/attacks was at the point of saying "fuck this, its just not worth the stress", but decided to fight through it and get 3hrs of sleep a night for the week. We're back, and today is our best profit day in a while (thank god for bad luck streaks...), but its at this point that I need to raise the fees to make it worth it to run in the future.
2% seems reasonable to me. It matches almost all of our competitors (who were smart enough to do it in the beginning), and isn't a huge change to the end user (1% to 2% isn't a major change in profitability). And allows me to sink more work into the pool without feeling screwed at the end of the day.
Again, sorry it has to happen, feel free to rant about how this is the end of WP/multipools/etc, it wasn't a decision made lightly.
Completely understandable. Keep up the good work!
Just a thought with respect to transaction fees though... I bet many (if not most) of the pool memebers have a Cryptsy account. Since you're using Cryptsy to exchange coins, why don't you consider allowing pool members to provide their Cryptsy Trade Address so that you can transfer coins to their account without incurring transfer fees. Obviously, this is just a small part of the expense but every bit helps, right? Also, you could consider requesting members to add you as a referrer on Cryptsy so that you get a reduction in your exchange fees.  |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Each block is stacked on top of the previous one. Adding another block to the top makes all lower blocks more difficult to remove: there is more "weight" above each block. A transaction in a block 6 blocks deep (6 confirmations) will be very difficult to remove.
|
|
|
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
suchmoon
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
|
|
March 31, 2014, 12:49:50 AM |
|
@suchmoon you replied: I wouldn't trust anything that can be changed by knowing just my address, which is not supposed to be secret in the first place. I can put it in my signature like utahjohn here and that should not mean I don't get paid today. my reply: I had not considered that before I proposed the idea  Indeed this could be used as a vector for pool attack ... but isn't "userpass" submitted with every share submitted and would negate the effect of someone else hijacking your address to change your threshold? And thus attacker would have to be mining for you I don't understand the inner workings of stratum protocol. Correct me if I am wrong. And explain to me how this could be a problem and potential exploit, it would still be shares going to your payout address ... Depending on how it works it might be enough to send just one share at an appropriate time. Not easy to pull off and kind of pointless, but so is a DDOS. If you don't think it's a risk, how about another scenario. Let's say I have 20 rigs pointed at waffle and decided I don't want a 2-day payout anymore and would like daily instead. Or the other way around. Change config on each and restart just to change the payout schedule? What if the rigs end up with different settings, accidentally or otherwise? I think it's just not the type of setting that's suitable for configuring at the mining software level. |
|
|
|
|
|
utahjohn
|
|
March 31, 2014, 01:24:28 AM
Last edit: March 31, 2014, 12:11:25 PM by utahjohn |
|
@suchmoon you replied: I wouldn't trust anything that can be changed by knowing just my address, which is not supposed to be secret in the first place. I can put it in my signature like utahjohn here and that should not mean I don't get paid today. my reply: I had not considered that before I proposed the idea Indeed this could be used as a vector for pool attack ... but isn't "userpass" submitted with every share submitted and would negate the effect of someone else hijacking your address to change your threshold? And thus attacker would have to be mining for you I don't understand the inner workings of stratum protocol. Correct me if I am wrong. And explain to me how this could be a problem and potential exploit, it would still be shares going to your payout address ... Depending on how it works it might be enough to send just one share at an appropriate time. Not easy to pull off and kind of pointless, but so is a DDOS. If you don't think it's a risk, how about another scenario. Let's say I have 20 rigs pointed at waffle and decided I don't want a 2-day payout anymore and would like daily instead. Or the other way around. Change config on each and restart just to change the payout schedule? What if the rigs end up with different settings, accidentally or otherwise? I think it's just not the type of setting that's suitable for configuring at the mining software level. Thanks for the reply. Again something I had not considered as I have only one mining rig. So this would have to be done at stratum server level and would terribly complicate things by needing user registration to manage such things as someone suggested (I nodded off and fell asleep watching TV and did not notice your reply for a while). Well it was a thought anyway for PW to reduce his transaction costs and make him more money. EDIT: If one or more multiple rigs was reconfigured for a lower payout threshold I would guess that IF the payout process is run at the time a share was submitted by mis-configured rig this would trigger payout at the lower threshold and if it was not the last currently submitted share to server that payout would be held until next payout process is run this could occur repeatedly until you had reached either threshold. Again not a major problem ... Config is your responsibility at the miner level. If user registration becomes required, might as go all the way and make options for payout coin at a specific threshold and trading options so you can hold coins until user selected threshold is reached or let it be traded to BTC automatically at the pool op's settings. |
|
|
|
|
|
BookofNick
|
|
March 31, 2014, 02:06:58 AM |
|
I'm using the widget. Does it auto update? Would love the option to set custom auto-update times. |
|
|
|
|
LPCobris
|
|
March 31, 2014, 03:28:47 AM |
|
@suchmoon you replied: I wouldn't trust anything that can be changed by knowing just my address, which is not supposed to be secret in the first place. I can put it in my signature like utahjohn here and that should not mean I don't get paid today. my reply: I had not considered that before I proposed the idea Indeed this could be used as a vector for pool attack ... but isn't "userpass" submitted with every share submitted and would negate the effect of someone else hijacking your address to change your threshold? And thus attacker would have to be mining for you I don't understand the inner workings of stratum protocol. Correct me if I am wrong. And explain to me how this could be a problem and potential exploit, it would still be shares going to your payout address ... Depending on how it works it might be enough to send just one share at an appropriate time. Not easy to pull off and kind of pointless, but so is a DDOS. If you don't think it's a risk, how about another scenario. Let's say I have 20 rigs pointed at waffle and decided I don't want a 2-day payout anymore and would like daily instead. Or the other way around. Change config on each and restart just to change the payout schedule? What if the rigs end up with different settings, accidentally or otherwise? I think it's just not the type of setting that's suitable for configuring at the mining software level. Thanks for the reply. Again something I had not considered as I have only one mining rig. So this would have to be done at stratum server level and would terribly complicate things by needing user registration to manage such things as someone suggested (I nodded off and fell asleep watching TV and did not notice your reply for a while). Well it was a thought anyway for PW to reduce his transaction costs and make him more money. If user registration becomes required, might as go all the way and make options for payout coin at a specific threshold and trading options so you can hold coins until user selected threshold is reached or let it be traded to BTC automatically. IMO WP should not overcomplicate thiings... Registration is a way of complicate things... Keep it anonimous, keep it simple... And no mandatory crypsy account... There is so many to enhance why complicate stuff... Lets work on the profits.... LPC |
|
|
|
|
toxic0n
Member
Offline
Activity: 413
Merit: 10
|
|
March 31, 2014, 03:41:27 AM |
|
I'm using the widget. Does it auto update? Would love the option to set custom auto-update times. It updates every 30 minutes. I will be adding support for shorter time periods as well as click to refresh soon. |
|
|
|
|
|
utahjohn
|
|
March 31, 2014, 04:06:50 AM
Last edit: March 31, 2014, 04:17:45 AM by utahjohn |
|
Yes increasing profit should be the top priority.
By going to higher payout thresholds PW's profit would be increased.
Coin-switcher should always be the absolute top at list and frequently tuned.
Re-evaluation of coin conversion rates and methods should be next.
I am not that concerned about payout rates and going longer between payouts is acceptable to me.
zzzzz I keep nodding out, taking a nap ... Please consider my suggestions that can increase profits for ALL.
|
|
|
|
|
|
gtraah
|
|
March 31, 2014, 04:52:47 AM |
|
JHammer, you really should stop being so critical of everything. If you want it how you want it, make your own pool. You have a gripe with every pool?
Your right.. As I am making freaking twice as much here as I was at that lame pool you pimp.. CoinSolver.. What are you even doing in this thread.. Go back to CoinSlover where you make 0.0021 per MH's per day.. lollllll Well for one, it is annoying as dog shit watching you bitch on EVERY post. I am not defending CS or anything I am just saying to stop commenting uselessness. I am sure you are making a "killing" over $1 a day........I am a pimp, let me dust my shoulders off. Who says that...lol I help people when I can in these forums...i didn't know I was locked to one threads. Thanks, come again. As for you gtaah, keep laughing Can I see your twice as much as well? lolol EDIT: and what a surprise it is JHammer and gtaah bitcheing about stuff. Shocker. You obviously have a serious mental disorder and I hope your seeking treatment for it.. @ zneww?? Bitching Your a fool keep talking out of your ass u dk... I am stating what people have stated so that the pool owner knows there may be an issue IDIOT... How is stating that I am getting much more rejects than previous bitching. There maybe an issue which requires attention who knows, A few people were saying it all at the same time.. .. JHammer is 100% right go get yourself checked out u fool ... Tfehhh ... |
|
|
|
|
aagert
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 330
Merit: 250
📱 Electroneum 📱 cryptocurrency
|
|
March 31, 2014, 04:57:05 AM |
|
We've been the lowest fee profit-switching pool since our start, but we do have to raise the pool fee from 1%, to 2%.<...>
Again, sorry it has to happen, feel free to rant about how this is the end of WP/multipools/etc, it wasn't a decision made lightly.
Don't say sorry - 2% is perfectly OK for all your efforts and hard work. We love you  and your pool, of course. But please-please-please, make a Scrypt-N pool as soon as possible! Even if it will be only one coin from the start (e.g. VertCoin) or few of them, just make a Scrypt-N pool. It will be great for many of us, GPU miners. We'll appreciate that. |
|
|
|
azebro
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 52
Merit: 0
|
|
March 31, 2014, 05:12:20 AM |
|
So... Its not worth it for the price they are asking (200€) right?
I wouldn't buy them at 200 EUR. But do your own math with your assumptions, risk tolerance, opportunity cost etc. I know they are a bit overpriced (a lot!), but what is crushing me is the energy bill... I have currently a system doing 1200w for 2.5 mhash and another for 1000w doing 1.8 mhs... Plus my main systems with 1.7mhash doing 700w So it s a lot of consuption... If that gridseed costed 200€ but have 660khash, that would be a good alternative, but for now i don´t think so... Too low khash for so much money... LPC One risk factor to add is defective units. I assume you have almost no warranty on them. With GPU bought you still have 1-3 year warranty. A. |
|
|
|
|
|
gaalx
|
|
March 31, 2014, 05:28:25 AM
Last edit: March 31, 2014, 05:50:04 AM by gaalx |
|
I'm a big fan of wafflepool, have been from start. Personally as a few others suggested I feel 1% to 2% is too much of a jump, a 100% fee increase is massive when the edges are already so thin between various mining pools. 1.5% be much more of a fair compromise I feel.
+1 We've been the lowest fee profit-switching pool since our start, but we do have to raise the pool fee from 1%, to 2%.<...>
Again, sorry it has to happen, feel free to rant about how this is the end of WP/multipools/etc, it wasn't a decision made lightly.
Don't say sorry - 2% is perfectly OK for all your efforts and hard work. We love you and your pool, of course. But please-please-please, make a Scrypt-N pool as soon as possible! Even if it will be only one coin from the start (e.g. VertCoin) or few of them, just make a Scrypt-N pool. It will be great for many of us, GPU miners. We'll appreciate that. +1. Do something revolutionary and we will pay 2% PS with a pool when we still had about 600Mh. concerning DDOS http://coinspot.ru/analysis/sluxi-panika-i-ataki-ddos-dikaya-nedelya-dlya-huobi/Гoвopят, чтo нecкoлькo гpoмкиx DDoS-aтaк, имeвшиx мecтo в пocлeднee вpeмя, являютcя peзyльтaтoм пoпытoк шaнтaжa. Caйт yпpaвлeния пpoeктaми Basecamp (извecтный paннee кaк 37signals) тaкжe «yшeл в oффлaйн», чтo eгo влaдeльцы oxapaктepизoвaли кaк пoпыткy вымoгaтeльcтвa. Кpoмe тoгo, пapy нeдeль нaзaд oни пoлyчили «интepecнoe» cooбщeния: «Baш кoнкypeнт oбpaтилcя кo мнe c пpocьбoй выпoлнить aтaкy DDoS нa вaшeм caйтe. Я мoгy пpeдoтвpaтить aтaкy зa 300$. Ecли вы зaинтepecoвaны в мoeм пpeдлoжeнии, cooбщитe мнe». И дaжe ecли эти DDoS-инцидeнты нe имeют к шaнтaжy никaкoгo oтнoшeния, oни yкaзывaют нa пocлeдниe тeндeнции в oблacти кoмпьютepныx пpecтyплeний. B пocлeднee вpeмя знaчитeльнo yвeличилocь кoличecтвo cлyчaeв вымoгaтeльcтвa, кaк y пpeдпpиятий, тaк и y чacтныx лиц, либo пocpeдcтвoм явныx yгpoз, кaк в cлyчae c пoлyчeнным cooбщeниeм, либo пpи пoмoщи вpeдoнocныx пpoгpaмм типa CryptoLocker, paзpaбoтчики кoтopыx тaкжe тpeбyют aнaлoгичныe cyммы oт cвoиx жepтв. |
|
|
|
azebro
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 52
Merit: 0
|
|
March 31, 2014, 06:30:59 AM |
|
PW, I've asked that before but received no answer. (Or quite possible missed the reply ) Is there an API to pull the individual stats? I know that there is one for global, but I need to pull my workers stats, and would like to avoid screen scraping. TIA, A. |
|
|
|
|
miless2111s
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 55
Merit: 0
|
|
March 31, 2014, 07:35:47 AM |
|
Thanks for that - some feedback: 1) it displays as a 4x1 bar but only uses 2x1 - either make it 2x1 or use the extra space for something 2) it's name is "a waffle widget" which means that it is shown under "a" rather than "w" which is where I was looking for it in my alphabetically arranged widgets 3) it would be good to have the worker stats... 4) could it change colour based on thresholds so you get a visual cue if the hash rate drops below X? 5) my confirmed is currently showing as 7.95E-4 which isn't the same format as U: 0.007731 even though there is the space... Thanks very much for sharing this Miles |
|
|
|
|
miless2111s
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 55
Merit: 0
|
|
March 31, 2014, 07:37:05 AM |
|
PW, I've asked that before but received no answer. (Or quite possible missed the reply ) Is there an API to pull the individual stats? I know that there is one for global, but I need to pull my workers stats, and would like to avoid screen scraping. TIA, A. There must be one as the linked stats display has worker charts (at 1 hour resolution)... Miles |
|
|
|
|
azebro
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 52
Merit: 0
|
|
March 31, 2014, 07:44:43 AM |
|
PW, I've asked that before but received no answer. (Or quite possible missed the reply ) Is there an API to pull the individual stats? I know that there is one for global, but I need to pull my workers stats, and would like to avoid screen scraping. TIA, A. There must be one as the linked stats display has worker charts (at 1 hour resolution)... Miles You can get this by screen scraping as well, so not much of the proof. A. |
|
|
|
|
chipxtreme
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 34
Merit: 0
|
|
March 31, 2014, 09:21:25 AM |
|
Could you add GBP as payment amounts as well for us in the UK |
|
|
|
|
|
ak111in
|
|
March 31, 2014, 10:10:17 AM |
|
Wafflepool Monitor Android App Update 1.3 [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508017.0] : Hashrate graph updated to show hashrate as well as balances. : Worker graphs added showing hashrate as well as stale percent. Download https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.watcron.wafflepoolmonitor  IMP: This is a paid app and you need to pay .003BTC per address to use this app. In case you can't pay please do not download the app as it would not work.Payment address:1MrEdZWv5HqE7kJf2jAnYLF9LYGBDM11Zv |
|
|
|
|
|
LPCobris
|
|
March 31, 2014, 11:56:41 AM |
|
Wafflepool Monitor Android App Update 1.3 [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508017.0] : Hashrate graph updated to show hashrate as well as balances. : Worker graphs added showing hashrate as well as stale percent. Download https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.watcron.wafflepoolmonitor IMP: This is a paid app and you need to pay .003BTC per address to use this app. In case you can't pay please do not download the app as it would not work.Payment address:1MrEdZWv5HqE7kJf2jAnYLF9LYGBDM11Zv For me software is like sex... Is WAY better when is free... Sorry i will pass your app... LPC |
|
|
|
|
|
utahjohn
|
|
March 31, 2014, 12:23:21 PM
Last edit: March 31, 2014, 12:51:14 PM by utahjohn |
|
as LPC said:
For me software is like sex...
Is WAY better when is free...
Sorry i will pass your app...
I agree: shareware is only way I accept an app. Asking for donations is acceptable at a rate the enduser feels the app is worth to them. Change your strategy if you want your app accepted and to be successful with profit from developing it.
How is a potential user even able to evaluate it if payment is required upfront! LOL
has Linus Torvalds the Linux guru ever required payment for his work? He does this all for the good of the growing Linux community and users contribute to development (Donations are his compensations). Some dists do require payment but I reject them...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
