[POOL][Scrypt][Scrypt-N][X11] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com

[zezeto]

Hello, I joined recently so far everything is good, but I wanted to check if there's an IRC channel for this pool (official/unofficial)? the one at freenode seems to be invite only at the moment.

Error(473): #wafflepool Cannot join channel (+i) - you must be invited

 

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[zneww]

Hello, I joined recently so far everything is good, but I wanted to check if there's an IRC channel for this pool (official/unofficial)? the one at freenode seems to be invite only at the moment.

Error(473): #wafflepool Cannot join channel (+i) - you must be invited

 

##wafflepool

[SavageWS6]

New to this multi-pool, what's the normal time when coins get confirmed? I got a lot of unconfirmed right now, people were saying AC and WC was taking a while to confirm.

[poolwaffle]

New to this multi-pool, what's the normal time when coins get confirmed? I got a lot of unconfirmed right now, people were saying AC and WC was taking a while to confirm.

Depends on the coins, when you mine a new block, they need to be "buried" by a certain number of blocks on top of them before they are unlocked and spendable.  We don't have any control over it (neither does any pool)

[SavageWS6]

New to this multi-pool, what's the normal time when coins get confirmed? I got a lot of unconfirmed right now, people were saying AC and WC was taking a while to confirm.

Depends on the coins, when you mine a new block, they need to be "buried" by a certain number of blocks on top of them before they are unlocked and spendable.  We don't have any control over it (neither does any pool)

Ah gotcha, now that you mention it... It makes sense now with new blocks need to be found on top of the one "Already" found and needing confirmations on that coins network.

[Pacepa]

I don't care if everything we mine is hidden, as long as it put BTC in the wallet at the end of the day!

[bbbbbb2014]

One of the next major features I'd like to work on (although it is a very large codebase change) is optional payouts in the coins that we mine.  Essentially you'd be able to "register" (sign a message from your btc account) an altcoin address, and those addresses would get paid mined coins (before exchange), and any leftover balance would be exchanged.  So essentially, depending on the coins we've mined, you might get back 50% in that coin, and 50% in btc, and the next day a different amount (depending on how much was mined).

It has a bunch of benefits for everyone, we can avoid the exchange (fees), can avoid pushing down the market a bit (not selling those coins), and people get to hold coins they want to hold (optional).  Its a win-win, its just a lot of code

PW, you should elaborate this 'other coins' feature more:

- would it be possible to be paid in LTC instead of BTC - I mean some cryptos are traded for LTC also (Cryptsy)?
- payout could be in mined coins - BUT you should indicate at what price level should these cryptos be sold off - in order to maintain profitability


I mean - the point is not that I hold coins - as I have to pay some expenses. The point is - that if you pay me in native coins - then I have more chance to sell off coins in a week or so.

Also, coins must be paid out ASAP they are mature.

[poolwaffle]

One of the next major features I'd like to work on (although it is a very large codebase change) is optional payouts in the coins that we mine.  Essentially you'd be able to "register" (sign a message from your btc account) an altcoin address, and those addresses would get paid mined coins (before exchange), and any leftover balance would be exchanged.  So essentially, depending on the coins we've mined, you might get back 50% in that coin, and 50% in btc, and the next day a different amount (depending on how much was mined).

It has a bunch of benefits for everyone, we can avoid the exchange (fees), can avoid pushing down the market a bit (not selling those coins), and people get to hold coins they want to hold (optional).  Its a win-win, its just a lot of code

PW, you should elaborate this 'other coins' feature more:

- would it be possible to be paid in LTC instead of BTC - I mean some cryptos are traded for LTC also (Cryptsy)?
- payout could be in mined coins - BUT you should indicate at what price level should these cryptos be sold off - in order to maintain profitability


I mean - the point is not that I hold coins - as I have to pay some expenses. The point is - that if you pay me in native coins - then I have more chance to sell off coins in a week or so.

Also, coins must be paid out ASAP they are mature.

None of what I'm about to say is fully fleshed out yet, its just my first stab at how it would be handled (what makes sense as fitting into the existing payout/balances system).  It is very likely to change.

Payouts would still be done at the normal timings (2x daily).  We wouldn't be offering to exchange coins into anything other than BTC, just offering to send out coins we had mined (and possibly only a subset of the actively mining coins) instead of exchanging them to BTC first.  For this example, lets say we added payouts in LTC.  When we did the normal process of exchanging coins to BTC, we would look at how many people wanted payouts in LTC, what their balances were, and keep that amount of LTC off to the side (instead of exchanging), the rest would be sent to the exchange as usual.  When were to run payouts later, we would have some users who requested LTC.  These users would be paid from the LTC that was held aside from exchanging, and any other balance in BTC.  For example, if we didn't mine any LTC that day and didn't have any LTC, you may have requested LTC as a payout option, but would be getting payouts that day in BTC (no LTC held aside, no earnings in LTC for the day).  Other days, if we mined 50% LTC, 50% others, you would get 50% of your payout in LTC, 50% in BTC.

Essentially everything would stay the same in terms of exchanging.  Coins would always go XX -> BTC, just some coins could bypass our exchange process, and be held for payouts.

The issue of what price they're "sold" at I hadn't thought much about yet.  I imagine we'd have two valid options there, neither is quite right, but both seem close-enough to be acceptable.  One option is to use the last-trade price (or highest bid), since these aren't actually being sold immediately, they don't affect depth/etc.  So if we sent you 1 LTC, we would count that as exchanged to BTC (for profitability calculations) at the current price.  The other alternative would be to use our existing pricing system, which accounts for depth/markets.  The first option would be high (not everyone can sell at the highest bid), the 2nd option would be low (we estimate prices extremely cautiously).  Maybe we average them?

Most likely (at least to start), we'll only be adding a few of our larger coins that we mine on a daily basis (and mine in enough quantity to justify payouts).  The ones that come to mind immediately are LTC/DOGE.  Adding more wouldn't be difficult, but those two are a good starting point I think

An extension to this (and a decently sized extension it is), would be to allow for some of your BTC balance to be "exchanged" to LTC locally.  For example, if you wanted LTC payouts, and we had another user who didn't want LTC payouts, we could theoretically "exchange" some of your already converted BTC earnings (non LTC earnings) for his not-yet-converted LTC earnings (exchange price makes more of a difference here).  This is just something we could theoretically do, it wouldn't be planned for the initial implementation (way more things could go wrong here comparatively).

[edonkey]

None of what I'm about to say is fully fleshed out yet, its just my first stab at how it would be handled (what makes sense as fitting into the existing payout/balances system).  It is very likely to change.

Payouts would still be done at the normal timings (2x daily).  We wouldn't be offering to exchange coins into anything other than BTC, just offering to send out coins we had mined (and possibly only a subset of the actively mining coins) instead of exchanging them to BTC first.  For this example, lets say we added payouts in LTC.  When we did the normal process of exchanging coins to BTC, we would look at how many people wanted payouts in LTC, what their balances were, and keep that amount of LTC off to the side (instead of exchanging), the rest would be sent to the exchange as usual.  When were to run payouts later, we would have some users who requested LTC.  These users would be paid from the LTC that was held aside from exchanging, and any other balance in BTC.  For example, if we didn't mine any LTC that day and didn't have any LTC, you may have requested LTC as a payout option, but would be getting payouts that day in BTC (no LTC held aside, no earnings in LTC for the day).  Other days, if we mined 50% LTC, 50% others, you would get 50% of your payout in LTC, 50% in BTC.

Essentially everything would stay the same in terms of exchanging.  Coins would always go XX -> BTC, just some coins could bypass our exchange process, and be held for payouts.

The issue of what price they're "sold" at I hadn't thought much about yet.  I imagine we'd have two valid options there, neither is quite right, but both seem close-enough to be acceptable.  One option is to use the last-trade price (or highest bid), since these aren't actually being sold immediately, they don't affect depth/etc.  So if we sent you 1 LTC, we would count that as exchanged to BTC (for profitability calculations) at the current price.  The other alternative would be to use our existing pricing system, which accounts for depth/markets.  The first option would be high (not everyone can sell at the highest bid), the 2nd option would be low (we estimate prices extremely cautiously).  Maybe we average them?

Most likely (at least to start), we'll only be adding a few of our larger coins that we mine on a daily basis (and mine in enough quantity to justify payouts).  The ones that come to mind immediately are LTC/DOGE.  Adding more wouldn't be difficult, but those two are a good starting point I think

An extension to this (and a decently sized extension it is), would be to allow for some of your BTC balance to be "exchanged" to LTC locally.  For example, if you wanted LTC payouts, and we had another user who didn't want LTC payouts, we could theoretically move "exchange" some of your already converted BTC earnings (non LTC earnings) for his not-yet-converted LTC earnings (exchange price makes more of a difference here).  This is just something we could theoretically do, it wouldn't be planned for the initial implementation (way more things could go wrong here comparatively).

This really does sound like an interesting feature. The option of receiving coin in the currency mined (as specified by the user) would let us more or less automatically diversify our coin holdings. Of course the percentage of diversification per day would be based on what was mined, which is arbitrary and based on profit. But still I think this is a useful feature.

I also agree the priority of offering this in the larger coins only to start. I'm personally not interested in holding coins other than BTC, LTC, and DOGE right now.

I don't quite understand the issue you raise about what price is "sold". Is this just a statistics reporting issue? Because if there's no exchange, then there's just a transfer from the pool to the user. Or is the issue that in order to determine the share or fees for a user you have to come up with the equivalent of a "sold" price?

Thanks for thinking about this feature.

[poolwaffle]

This really does sound like an interesting feature. The option of receiving coin in the currency mined (as specified by the user) would let us more or less automatically diversify our coin holdings. Of course the percentage of diversification per day would be based on what was mined, which is arbitrary and based on profit. But still I think this is a useful feature.

I also agree the priority of offering this in the larger coins only to start. I'm personally not interested in holding coins other than BTC, LTC, and DOGE right now.

I don't quite understand the issue you raise about what price is "sold". Is this just a statistics reporting issue? Because if there's no exchange, then there's just a transfer from the pool to the user. Or is the issue that in order to determine the share or fees for a user you have to come up with the equivalent of a "sold" price?

Thanks for thinking about this feature.

Yep, its just a statistics problem.  Everything we list on the stats page is based on you (miners) earning BTC exclusively.  So if we pay out in LTC, how do we count that towards the day's BTC earnings (it never got converted to BTC)?  In the case of LTC it matters less (since it by definition is 100% profitability all of the time), but for something like DOGE, how do we count its profitability?

In the long run I don't think its going to be a huge issue, it will either be reported a bit high (this is what most multipools that don't exchange do, count everything at last-trade price), or a bit low (the minimum we expect to be able to sell it for - barring major changes in market), or somewhere in between.  Again, it matters a bit more if we do "exchanges" between accounts, because each side wants a different exchange price, so maybe the easy answer is the average between last-price and expected-sell price.

[ozzy1926]

what was the link of my real time status page?

[diwskwmx]

what was the link of my real time status page?

You can get stats every 5 minutes at www.wafflecharts.com.

http://waffles.wilschrader.com/ was one of the early ones, but its currently offline, I'm not sure if its coming back or not, but that info is likely buried in this thread.

[ak111in]

what was the link of my real time status page?

try www.wafflepoolmonitor.com

[miless2111s]

the option to pay out in mined coins (or better yet a user configurable % of the twice daily payout to be in mined coins) sounds interesting however the reason I came over from multipool was that I got very frustrated by the dust that was generated - i.e. coins that I had which were too small a balance to actually sell - this nailed my profitability and didn't really even give me something to hold onto and speculate on.   Would it be possible to avoid this or would this just be part of the risk that we'd be taking on with this option?

Miles

[DrunkenDonkey]

You won't be forced to, it is for those that want it, and besides, you can tell only 1 currency to get besides BTC, and this is one of the major ones - LTC/doge and only if the server mined it that day, the "dust" will autosell for BTC just as it is now.

[poolwaffle]

the option to pay out in mined coins (or better yet a user configurable % of the twice daily payout to be in mined coins) sounds interesting however the reason I came over from multipool was that I got very frustrated by the dust that was generated - i.e. coins that I had which were too small a balance to actually sell - this nailed my profitability and didn't really even give me something to hold onto and speculate on.   Would it be possible to avoid this or would this just be part of the risk that we'd be taking on with this option?

This will be completely opt-in (and opt-out if you don't want it anymore).

[bbbbbb2014]

Payouts would still be done at the normal timings (2x daily).  We wouldn't be offering to exchange coins into anything other than BTC, just offering to send out coins we had mined (and possibly only a subset of the actively mining coins) instead of exchanging them to BTC first.  For this example, lets say we added payouts in LTC.

Let me be more specific.

If specific coins are mined:

a) either you'll sell it
b) either I'll be selling it
c) I'll keep the coins

Obviously I am for option b). And if that's the option - then I am interested in:

a) get coins as soon as they are mature (and not twice a daily)
b) I want to know what was the target price your switcher decided they are worth mining - as I don't want to sell them under that target price - otherwise it is pointless that your switcher has chosen the coin - and I sold them cheap (i.e. under the target price).

Was I clear enough?

[poolwaffle]

Payouts would still be done at the normal timings (2x daily).  We wouldn't be offering to exchange coins into anything other than BTC, just offering to send out coins we had mined (and possibly only a subset of the actively mining coins) instead of exchanging them to BTC first.  For this example, lets say we added payouts in LTC.

Let me be more specific.

If I'd be paid in some specific coins then:

a) either you'll sell it
b) either I'll be selling it
c) I'll keep the coins

Obviously I am for option b). And if that's the option - then I am interested in:

a) get coins as soon as they are mature (and not twice a daily)
b) I want to know what was the target price your switcher decided they are worth mining - as I don't want to sell them under that target price - otherwise it is pointless that your switcher choosed the coin - and I sold them cheap (i.e. under the target price).

Was I clear enough?

I understand.  However:
a) Most likely not going to happen.  Don't think its really feasible due to the fees required sending small amounts of extremely new coins to hundreds/thousands of users, we'd ask to send you 1 coin, and we'd be paying half of that in fees.  Obviously that depends on hashrate somewhat, but its a very high amount typically.
b) This doesn't really make sense.  All that matters is the price at the time that you get them (and even that doesn't really matter).  When you get the coins, either you'll decide to hold them for a time period because you think the price is going to go up, or you'll decide to sell them immediately because you think the price will go down.  What the switcher decided doesn't matter, the coins are already mined and is essentially a sunk-cost.  You decide if you think price is going up or down, and make a decision based on that, and that alone.

[Namachieli]

So I think Hashcows is already doing something similar. (payout in other than BTC)

You can see a post about it on their News page: https://hashco.ws/news/ (march 25th)

Glad to see more pools adopting this idea though. I would love to paid out in DigitalCoin only.  

As for payout of specific alts mined and trading the rest out, they have been doing that for quite some time now.

Can't hurt to have more pools doing this though.

[Wexlike]

Please add a blackcoin payout !