[POOL][Scrypt][Scrypt-N][X11] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com

[phzi]

why the dramatic slide in revenue per mh over the past 5 days?

- Litecoin and other scrypt coins falling against bitcoin
- Significant amounts of new hashing power entering the scrypt market (ASICs from innosilicon and zeus) - although this is going to have the biggest impact over the NEXT few days after difficulty jumps.

So, the same amount of LTC buys you less BTC then it did a week ago, and you earn less LTC per MH then you did a week ago.

Scrypt is basically dead for GPU miners; other algorithms are more profitable.
The algorithm has come of age, and it's time for it to get dominated by ASIC equipment and for Litecoin take it's proper place as king of scrypt .

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[jjj0923]

why the dramatic slide in revenue per mh over the past 5 days?

- Bitcoin increasing in price
- Litecoin and other scrypt coins falling against bitcoin
- Significant amounts of new hashing power entering the scrypt market (ASICs from innosilicon and zeus)

Scrypt is basically dead for GPU miners; other algorithms are more profitable.  Scrypt has come of age, and it's time for it to get dominated by ASIC equipment and have Litecoin take it's proper place as king of scrypt .

well with the exception of bitcoin's price rising no seminal event has occurred in the last 5 days

[phzi]

well with the exception of bitcoin's price rising no seminal event has occurred in the last 5 days

But along with bitcoin's rise in price, most scrypt coins have slipped against bitcoin.

[poolwaffle]

why the dramatic slide in revenue per mh over the past 5 days?

- Bitcoin increasing in price
- Litecoin and other scrypt coins falling against bitcoin
- Significant amounts of new hashing power entering the scrypt market (ASICs from innosilicon and zeus)

Scrypt is basically dead for GPU miners; other algorithms are more profitable.  Scrypt has come of age, and it's time for it to get dominated by ASIC equipment and have Litecoin take it's proper place as king of scrypt .

As part of this as well, very few coins are more profitable than straight Litecoin (on a decent scale at least), and if they are, its by an extremely small amount (1-2%, for a few seconds at a time).

For example, check out the graphs for the two most mined coins (check the 1W or 1M graphs for the best view):
Litecoin: https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/3
Dogecoin: https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/132

Some of the last couple days has just been luck (we should on average be above 100% LTC), but a week+ ago when the market was more fluid we were averaging 105% (+- 5% luck), and now at 101-102% (+-5% luck), we'll see more days <100%.

One thing to note, is this is benched against perfect efficiency on LTC at 0% fees, something you're not going to ever get (just mining LTC straight, you'd see 90% to 110% days extremely frequently).

All of this said, I've been pounding away at getting the new algorithms in place, today has been a day of backend script upgrades, and hopefully will have some exciting news later in the week

[jjj0923]

it's hard for me to want to bring my hash anywhere other than ltcrabbit when I'm consistently making about .00265/mh day in and day out.

I've got over 100mh and little differences add up over the course of a week or a month.



I wish there were a historical simulator that would allow me to plug in hash rate a date in the past and have the simulator plug in ltc price, btc price and difficulty to see what the difference would be in terms of actual yield.

[poolwaffle]

it's hard for me to want to bring my hash anywhere other than ltcrabbit when I'm consistently making about .00265/mh day in and day out.

I've got over 100mh and little differences add up over the course of a week or a month.



I wish there were a historical simulator that would allow me to plug in hash rate a date in the past and have the simulator plug in ltc price, btc price and difficulty to see what the difference would be in terms of actual yield.

Absolutely understand, each person does what they think is best, I'm certainly not going to tell you you're wrong

You're just trading the variance that a profit-switching pool offers.  Instead of some days at 110%, and some days at 90%, you're getting every day at 98% (2% fee on LTCRabbit), you'll get this with any PPS pool

[jjj0923]

r
it's hard for me to want to bring my hash anywhere other than ltcrabbit when I'm consistently making about .00265/mh day in and day out.

I've got over 100mh and little differences add up over the course of a week or a month.



I wish there were a historical simulator that would allow me to plug in hash rate a date in the past and have the simulator plug in ltc price, btc price and difficulty to see what the difference would be in terms of actual yield.

Absolutely understand, each person does what they think is best, I'm certainly not going to tell you you're wrong

You're just trading the variance that a profit-switching pool offers.  Instead of some days at 110%, and some days at 90%, you're getting every day at 98% (2% fee on LTCRabbit), you'll get this with any PPS pool

not exactly - rabbit does do some profit switching

I'm not an advocate for them - just seeking the best return and would switch in a NYC minute if I thought you guys would provide me a better yield and I'm doubling my hash rates this week too.

and you guys guys do charge 2% also

[poolwaffle]

not exactly - rabbit does do some profit switching

I'm not an advocate for them - just seeking the best return and would switch in a NYC minute if I thought you guys would provide me a better yield and I'm doubling my hash rates this week too.

I'm not terribly familiar with them, but from what I can tell from just a cursory glance (please point out if I'm wrong), they do profit switching, but they keep the profits.  They're profit-switching to mine the best coin, but paying miners with straight LTC PPS (as if you were mining LTC directly).

My guess is this is how they're able to run a PPS pool with 2% fees.  I don't have the link here, but if memory serves me correctly, a straight PPS pool has a good chance (>50%) of going bankrupt if fees are less than 4-5%.
Edit: Found the link, http://arxiv.org/pdf/1112.4980.pdf, see Appendix C, "Safety Nets for PPS Pools".  Was written for Bitcoin, but the math applies for LTC/others.

[jjj0923]

not exactly - rabbit does do some profit switching

I'm not an advocate for them - just seeking the best return and would switch in a NYC minute if I thought you guys would provide me a better yield and I'm doubling my hash rates this week too.

I'm not terribly familiar with them, but from what I can tell from just a cursory glance (please point out if I'm wrong), they do profit switching, but they keep the profits.  They're profit-switching to mine the best coin, but paying miners with straight LTC PPS (as if you were mining LTC directly).

My guess is this is how they're able to run a PPS pool with 2% fees.  I don't have the link here, but if memory serves me correctly, a straight PPS pool has a good chance (>50%) of going bankrupt if fees are less than 4-5%.
Edit: Found the link, http://arxiv.org/pdf/1112.4980.pdf, see Appendix C, "Safety Nets for PPS Pools".  Was written for Bitcoin, but the math applies for LTC/others.

well - they've been around for quite a bit of time and what's really nice is that they offer this: https://www.ltcrabbit.com/index.php?page=os which made it a snap for me to start with them before I started switching to asics.

thanks for the info - I'll be keeping an eye on your pool although I'm not a fan of once per days payout and do like to often arb my coins instead of going right to btc, but thanks much!

[phzi]

not exactly - rabbit does do some profit switching

I'm not an advocate for them - just seeking the best return and would switch in a NYC minute if I thought you guys would provide me a better yield and I'm doubling my hash rates this week too.

I'm not terribly familiar with them, but from what I can tell from just a cursory glance (please point out if I'm wrong), they do profit switching, but they keep the profits.  They're profit-switching to mine the best coin, but paying miners with straight LTC PPS (as if you were mining LTC directly).

My guess is this is how they're able to run a PPS pool with 2% fees.  I don't have the link here, but if memory serves me correctly, a straight PPS pool has a good chance (>50%) of going bankrupt if fees are less than 4-5%.
Edit: Found the link, http://arxiv.org/pdf/1112.4980.pdf, see Appendix C, "Safety Nets for PPS Pools".  Was written for Bitcoin, but the math applies for LTC/others.

That's right, LTCRabbit only pays out for 'profit switching' when they make extra profits.  Right now, I don't believe they aren't profit switching at on all scrypt (since Apr 5th, I believe), or very rarely.  But I haven't mined there in ages, so I couldn't say I've been watching the coins.

Although it seems to have changed sometime in the last few months, I am pretty sure LTCRabbit used to manage a 2% fee because they weren't "real" PPS.  They set their PPS rate based on their block discovery rate for the last x number of blocks (I believe it was 50, but my memory is foggy).  It seems now tho, they are calculating $PPSvalue = 50/(65536 * $ltc_network_difficulty).

But anyway, it really seems like scrypt mining is reaching an equilibrium where Litecoin is the main coin worth mining.  Good news for litecoin at least =).

[gaalx]

But anyway, it really seems like scrypt mining is reaching an equilibrium where Litecoin is the main coin worth mining.  Good news for litecoin at least =).

Litecoin for the score ASIC turns into the principal coin, but it is far not so. Now a large number of GPU of installations in search and waiting (I think that total power of GPU of an order 200 of Gkh in an interpretation script) as soon as one of algorithms will show the advantage, this power will start flowing there and it isn't known that will be with ASIC  Litecoin.
What at it global advantages? This coin was now popularized by a large number of miners that after leaving of GPU it won't be absolutely clear especially as old to ASIC are already sold and it is possible to develop the following generation.

[gaalx]

All of this said, I've been pounding away at getting the new algorithms in place, today has been a day of backend script upgrades, and hopefully will have some exciting news later in the week

And what you tasty offer us? Don't weary!

[haploid23]

Does anyone on this pool still mine with GPUs? I'm assuming all the GPU miners already dumped their GPUs, or switched to another algo.

[jemmyboy]

Does anyone on this pool still mine with GPUs? I'm assuming all the GPU miners already dumped their GPUs, or switched to another algo.

Moved all my GPU miners over to hirocoin, mining their multipool using X11
http://hiropool.org/hiro/index.php?page=home

[ericlfg]

Does anyone on this pool still mine with GPUs? I'm assuming all the GPU miners already dumped their GPUs, or switched to another algo.

+1

Long time lurker first time poster -- I am also interested in seeing what other GPU miners are doing.. 

[jedimstr]

Does anyone on this pool still mine with GPUs? I'm assuming all the GPU miners already dumped their GPUs, or switched to another algo.

+1

Long time lurker first time poster -- I am also interested in seeing what other GPU miners are doing.. 

If the other GPU miners didn't shutdown, or keep them running with cheap/free electricity, they could be doing what I'm doing... renting them out.  While most of the multipools like Waffle and Clever have been hovering around 0.003 or lower BTC per MH/day, renting on BetaRigs or LeaseRig can yield anywhere from 0.0035 to 0.005 BTC per MH/day.  Who knows what the renters are actually mining that make the premium worth it, but it's better than the rates we've been seeing lately on the straight scrypt pools and somewhat competitive with the X11/Scrypt-N rates.

[poolwaffle]

Does anyone on this pool still mine with GPUs? I'm assuming all the GPU miners already dumped their GPUs, or switched to another algo.

+1

Long time lurker first time poster -- I am also interested in seeing what other GPU miners are doing.. 

If the other GPU miners didn't shutdown, or keep them running with cheap/free electricity, they could be doing what I'm doing... renting them out.  While most of the multipools like Waffle and Clever have been hovering around 0.003 or lower BTC per MH/day, renting on BetaRigs or LeaseRig can yield anywhere from 0.0035 to 0.005 BTC per MH/day.  Who knows what the renters are actually mining that make the premium worth it, but it's better than the rates we've been seeing lately on the straight scrypt pools and somewhat competitive with the X11/Scrypt-N rates.

We should have an alternative as well later in the week (I hope).  Making steady progress

[ericlfg]

Thanks for everything, WP.  Love the pool and excited to see what happens later in the week!

[poolwaffle]

Later today we'll be switching the way shifts are ended, basically no one should really notice any change, just figured I'd mention it before getting emails/posts

We've previously closed shifts every X shares (where X is currently 200,000,000), and would change that occasionally to try to keep shifts at roughly 10min each.  But when we would have huge swings in hash rate, we'd have slow or fast shifts for a while.  Starting later today we'll be moving to static shifts which will be closed after 10min each.

This is first to just remove a small piece of dynamic stuff that I have to change every so often (one less thing to remember), and second to deal with the changes that are coming soon which will make it more of a hassle to remember/update

[jimlite]

Yeah, but I am using an X11 multipool (waiting for Waffle!) which pays the rates you say about .003, but
i use half the electricity, so that is a big plus in profits.