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Author Topic: ChangeNow.io (Evercode Lab) - Scam. Illegally holding of 100 BCH (11 bitcoins).  (Read 33900 times)
Polina_ChangeNOW
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September 12, 2018, 03:08:53 PM
 #341

Quote
First of all I used a random proxy IP generator so you guys at changenow never find out my real IP address and location

Second, I went to etherscan and took an ethereum address at random

Third, I was trying to make a demo trade of 15 BTC to change in to Ethereum (not real coins but just a demo to see what happens next)

Fourth, there were no warnings about AML/KYC. This trade should never have been allowed to go through at all without ID verification because the amount is too high. You stated earlier that you have an automated system that flags up suspicious trades but you never made it known on your website what will happen to that trade after you receive the funds and if the sender refuses to send ID. You must inform the user which international law enforcement agencies you fall under because you are registered in Belize and claim to have offices in multiple jurisdictions including Russia and Europe.

Fifth, who will bother reading the TOS and privacy policy so highlight that key information on the trade page.

Finally, before the QR code was created there should have been an alert for the user to notify that ID would be required but even more than two months after changenow have kept the OPs funds they still have not added this to their system. What confirmation are you waiting for and from which international law enforcement agency?

How long will it take you to update you website to show the AML/KYC is mandatory when a customer tries to make a trade beyond a certain value?

Nobody is by any means required to send us their documents. However, is this case we might not be able to process their transaction. To give you an example: if an exchange, Bittrex, Kraken, Poloniex, whatever, decides to freeze someone's funds and ask them for info regarding the source of funds (this is a real case, by the way), the customer in question can refuse to provide any. In that case, said customer has to be aware that they're risking getting their funds blocked until they satisfy the exchange's requirements. You either play by the rules or find a different game.

We do totally agree with you here: the interface can be made more convenient. We'll be glad to improve the interface once we've gotten a confirmation from our legal team on whether we can do that without compromising the procedure's integrity.
By the way: the exchange amount is not the only thing that might trigger a KYC check. There is an entire set of criteria at play.
There's no doubt that we have to give our users more information, we'll do our best on that.

It's actually pretty sad that no one bothers to read ToS and PP. Don't you read loan agreements or mortgage contracts, for example? Crypto is real money, and our documents are present on the website for a reason, and we will try to encourage our clients to read them even more vigorously.

I would like to reiterate that the amount is not the main criterion. And it's not only about getting the site updated: adding a notification is easy. We need to solve a task, first and foremost: how do we add a notification on the site and still maintain the KYC procedure's integrity? It's clear that if we provide all the details on our KYCP, there will be people who will try to abuse the algorithm. We understand the inportance of the task, are working on it, and will keep the community updated. Thank you for your ideas.
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JollyGood
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September 12, 2018, 03:26:10 PM
Last edit: September 12, 2018, 04:19:42 PM by JollyGood
 #342


Nobody is by any means required to send us their documents. However, is this case we might not be able to process their transaction. To give you an example: if an exchange, Bittrex, Kraken, Poloniex, whatever, decides to freeze someone's funds and ask them for info regarding the source of funds (this is a real case, by the way), the customer in question can refuse to provide any. In that case, said customer has to be aware that they're risking getting their funds blocked until they satisfy the exchange's requirements. You either play by the rules or find a different game.

We do totally agree with you here: the interface can be made more convenient. We'll be glad to improve the interface once we've gotten a confirmation from our legal team on whether we can do that without compromising the procedure's integrity.
By the way: the exchange amount is not the only thing that might trigger a KYC check. There is an entire set of criteria at play.
There's no doubt that we have to give our users more information, we'll do our best on that.

It's actually pretty sad that no one bothers to read ToS and PP. Don't you read loan agreements or mortgage contracts, for example? Crypto is real money, and our documents are present on the website for a reason, and we will try to encourage our clients to read them even more vigorously.

I would like to reiterate that the amount is not the main criterion. And it's not only about getting the site updated: adding a notification is easy. We need to solve a task, first and foremost: how do we add a notification on the site and still maintain the KYC procedure's integrity? It's clear that if we provide all the details on our KYCP, there will be people who will try to abuse the algorithm. We understand the inportance of the task, are working on it, and will keep the community updated. Thank you for your ideas.

Many thanks for the post and your clarifications. I hope you will implement some of those changes as soon as possible and I wish you success in your business.

Regarding the OP who has his funds frozen, it is about time you returned the funds to him using the same address you received them from. What confirmation are you waiting for and from who?

.
.Duelbits.
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User44a
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September 12, 2018, 03:28:07 PM
 #343

It looks like ChangeNow.io is another website I'll never visit again. 11BTC is lots of money in any country and you simply don't have the right to play a judge. ChangeNow has written "Selective SCAM" all around it.
Hope nobody will ever send you this kind of money before reading this thread.
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September 12, 2018, 03:35:48 PM
Last edit: September 12, 2018, 03:54:44 PM by ni23457
 #344

To give you an example: if an exchange, Bittrex, Kraken, Poloniex, whatever, decides to freeze someone's funds and ask them for info regarding the source of funds (this is a real case, by the way), the customer in question can refuse to provide any. In that case, said customer has to be aware that they're risking getting their funds blocked until they satisfy the exchange's requirements. You either play by the rules or find a different game.
You are not Bittrex, Kraken, Poloniex
You are:
https://postimg.cc/image/i8a8z5nj5/
https://postimg.cc/image/odwzy37rl/
https://postimg.cc/image/b52djluz5/
https://postimg.cc/image/9d9eoze9t (the page was removed a 5 weeks ago)
https://postimg.cc/image/6j69bhmdd/ (the founders were changed 3 weeks ago; the office was abandoned, new address of the office is secret)

You are just ridiculous and not one sane person can take you seriously. Return my crystal clear 5-years-old coins and forget about crypto world. Your papa Gladych (CEO and founder of Changelly) can confirm that I have whitelisted account there

***********************************************************
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September 12, 2018, 04:01:09 PM
 #345

Quote
So you're saying the company forwarding your mail there knows where you really are hiding? Or do they forward it to the nexts PO box?


We've never hidden from anyone, we just don't have an office that we use for representative purposes. We offer an entire variety of ways to get in touch with us (our emails, our Telegram chat, our support, etc.) which is how most IT/blockchain businesses work.


Quote
I'm not sure what to make of this. On a related subject: why did you switch accounts? -2 looks almost just as bad as -4.

Well, thanks to our friend ni23457 here I can't use the official account for the time being. So I, as ~a marketing manager~ have to use my personal one. We want to communicate in a constructive manner with the community, and this appears to be the only way for now.


Quote
trusted escrow on this forum

Am I right to think that what you're offering here is to send our client's funds to a random person on the Internet and that would  be secure and trustworthy? Alas, this is not how money business works. These funds are not ours, they are our client's, first and foremost, and sending them to an unknown third party would be a disaster.
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September 12, 2018, 04:19:58 PM
 #346

@Polina_ChangeNOW

Many thanks for the post and your clarifications. I hope you will implement some of those changes as soon as possible and I wish you success in your business.

Regarding the OP who has his funds frozen, it is about time you returned the funds to him using the same address you received them from. What confirmation are you waiting for and from who?

.
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Bazinga442
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September 12, 2018, 05:44:31 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #347

Am I right to think that what you're offering here is to send our client's funds to a random person on the Internet and that would  be secure and trustworthy? Alas, this is not how money business works. These funds are not ours, they are our client's, first and foremost, and sending them to an unknown third party would be a disaster.

No, you are wrong. What he is offering is the use of a trusted escrow on this platform. These are individuals that have proved their trustworthiness over several years in this forum. You are not trusted, they are. You lack credibility, they have it in abundance and have held amounts larger than 11 BTC.

Here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2439910.0
Polina_ChangeNOW
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September 12, 2018, 07:04:23 PM
 #348

@Polina_ChangeNOW

Many thanks for the post and your clarifications. I hope you will implement some of those changes as soon as possible and I wish you success in your business.

Regarding the OP who has his funds frozen, it is about time you returned the funds to him using the same address you received them from. What confirmation are you waiting for and from who?

Our legal team is dealing with this case right now and we're waiting for a resolution from them.
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September 12, 2018, 07:32:59 PM
 #349

Regarding the OP who has his funds frozen, it is about time you returned the funds to him using the same address you received them from. What confirmation are you waiting for and from who?

Our legal team is dealing with this case right now and we're waiting for a resolution from them.

Thank you for the update. At least we now know there is traction, thank you for letting us know.

It has already been 2 months that you have been holding funds that do not belong to you so how much longer will your legal department take? This 60+ days of limbo is unfair on the OP therefore we hope it will be resolved within a day or two.

Thank you for your assistance and clarifications.

.
.Duelbits.
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September 12, 2018, 08:44:53 PM
 #350

We will keep you notified of any updates that we might have.
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September 13, 2018, 03:07:35 PM
 #351

Regarding the OP who has his funds frozen, it is about time you returned the funds to him using the same address you received them from. What confirmation are you waiting for and from who?

Our legal team is dealing with this case right now and we're waiting for a resolution from them.

Thank you for the update. At least we now know there is traction, thank you for letting us know.

It has already been 2 months that you have been holding funds that do not belong to you so how much longer will your legal department take? This 60+ days of limbo is unfair on the OP therefore we hope it will be resolved within a day or two.

Thank you for your assistance and clarifications.

Are you really taken them seriously? I lost a lot of time reading this and it seems an obvious scam with the usual delay tactics: block account, demand verification, lots of time, ask for more documents and media, lots of time, reject documents as being fake and keeping the money.
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September 13, 2018, 03:21:40 PM
 #352

Are you really taken them seriously? I lost a lot of time reading this and it seems an obvious scam with the usual delay tactics: block account, demand verification, lots of time, ask for more documents and media, lots of time, reject documents as being fake and keeping the money.

I think they will refund the OP within a day or two maximum. This whole incident has been a massive PR disaster for changenow because they did not expect somebody would challenge them in the way the OP did by paying for adverts to explain what happened and by using the forum.

If they see common sense they will refund the OP and then make all necessary changes on their website to make it clear if ID verification is needed then the option to refund will be offered.


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Crashing
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September 13, 2018, 03:35:50 PM
 #353

I don't know them. But they look like a very small exchange under threat by the russian authorities. And 70000 usds are a lot of money for a small exchange already burned by this scam. Since the OP has personal details from them he can try use that, but we all know how things work on Russia. OP you have all my sympathy but say goodbye to your money.
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September 13, 2018, 04:09:40 PM
 #354

I think they will refund the OP within a day or two maximum. This whole incident has been a massive PR disaster for changenow because they did not expect somebody would challenge them in the way the OP did by paying for adverts to explain what happened and by using the forum.

I see you are the only one capable of constructive dialogue. Well, I agree with you. But imagine that I, or someone else, will launch such a campaign against another little-known exchange, without betraying any facts other than his story. What we know:
- he makes an exchange for $ 70,000, while, as he says, without taking it seriously
- for some reason (we do not know, it's an internal algorithm), the transaction is blocked
- this person, fearing (LOL), sends the first picture (WTF?!)
- the exchange requires real documents and video communication to understand who this person is (agree that getting fake ID causes certain thoughts)
- for some reason (I do not believe in fear for my own life, it's stupid), this person refuses video communication
- He starts a campaign against the exchange, accusing ChangeNow of "fraud".


Now the question: what is fraud? Sending fake ID is not cheating? So the scammer accuses of fraud, spreading information, usually not mentioning what caused the problem - FAKE ID and his "frivolity".

Do you understand me? This is absurd, we did not see this transaction! That is, the exchange could generally deny this operation, but they recognize this, try to solve the problem, but as I see, OP wants to return the coins, remaining unknown. I think this is wrong.

Imagine, in place of ChangeNow, any known exchange in a similar situation. What could write all here on the forum, if in this situation was Binance?

And the last thing. I've seen so many times about ChangeNow that I'm ready to poke my eyes out. I admit, I do not like the methods of ni23457, and I do not understand why the majority of the participants of the forum support OP. Nobody but a few people is aware that this problem is the fault of both sides.
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September 13, 2018, 04:21:34 PM
 #355

I can tell by my life experince and knowledge that OP will get his BCH back.
I analysed this situation here and i have made my conclusion about this situation.

Changenow will return his bch back i can tell that by looking the whole communication and all the story.

Crashing
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September 13, 2018, 04:23:13 PM
 #356

Internal algorithm blocks have to be confirmed by humans. Blocking was a human decision. As far I could read they didn't say why they blocked his account and this is the very first sign of scam. Sending an obvious fake ID was absurd (did he really sent a Trump pic?), but an evident fake ID can just be seen as a deny to send his documents not as an absurd fraud attempt. And he cooperated after. Seen exchanges do this so many times...
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September 13, 2018, 04:27:18 PM
 #357

I see here 2 possible scenarious!
OP will cooperate then he will get back his funds.
Second option Changenow will talk with their legal team and they will return back his bch.

But one thing is for sure! All this case will end up  that way that the OP will get his funds back!
I can tell just because i have a lot life ecperince and knowledge thats why i see this i know how it will end !
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September 13, 2018, 05:10:58 PM
 #358

I think they will refund the OP within a day or two maximum. This whole incident has been a massive PR disaster for changenow because they did not expect somebody would challenge them in the way the OP did by paying for adverts to explain what happened and by using the forum.

I see you are the only one capable of constructive dialogue. Well, I agree with you. But imagine that I, or someone else, will launch such a campaign against another little-known exchange, without betraying any facts other than his story. What we know:
- he makes an exchange for $ 70,000, while, as he says, without taking it seriously
- for some reason (we do not know, it's an internal algorithm), the transaction is blocked
- this person, fearing (LOL), sends the first picture (WTF?!)
- the exchange requires real documents and video communication to understand who this person is (agree that getting fake ID causes certain thoughts)
- for some reason (I do not believe in fear for my own life, it's stupid), this person refuses video communication
- He starts a campaign against the exchange, accusing ChangeNow of "fraud".


Now the question: what is fraud? Sending fake ID is not cheating? So the scammer accuses of fraud, spreading information, usually not mentioning what caused the problem - FAKE ID and his "frivolity".

Do you understand me? This is absurd, we did not see this transaction! That is, the exchange could generally deny this operation, but they recognize this, try to solve the problem, but as I see, OP wants to return the coins, remaining unknown. I think this is wrong.

Imagine, in place of ChangeNow, any known exchange in a similar situation. What could write all here on the forum, if in this situation was Binance?

And the last thing. I've seen so many times about ChangeNow that I'm ready to poke my eyes out. I admit, I do not like the methods of ni23457, and I do not understand why the majority of the participants of the forum support OP. Nobody but a few people is aware that this problem is the fault of both sides.

Thank you for your post.

Several things you did not mention included the OP was under the impression changenow were "anonymous and limitless" as this was mentioned on their website in the past, that was the sole reason he used them.

The OP was not offered the opportunity to decline the trade and receive a full refunds when ID was requested as a result of the internal algorithm so he suspected changenow might be selective scamming and decided to never send his ID to an organisation he was suspecting of being a scam. It was this lack of option that prompted the OP to send "fake" ID to changenow.

With all of the information available on hand including your wonderfully written post, most people seem to be supporting the OP because he was forced to send ID after he sent his crypto. All that information should have been made available by changenow before the OP started the trade.

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.Duelbits.
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Bazinga442
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September 13, 2018, 05:53:43 PM
Last edit: September 13, 2018, 06:16:38 PM by Bazinga442
 #359

I think they will refund the OP within a day or two maximum. This whole incident has been a massive PR disaster for changenow because they did not expect somebody would challenge them in the way the OP did by paying for adverts to explain what happened and by using the forum.

I see you are the only one capable of constructive dialogue. Well, I agree with you. But imagine that I, or someone else, will launch such a campaign against another little-known exchange, without betraying any facts other than his story. What we know:
- he makes an exchange for $ 70,000, while, as he says, without taking it seriously
- for some reason (we do not know, it's an internal algorithm), the transaction is blocked
- this person, fearing (LOL), sends the first picture (WTF?!)
- the exchange requires real documents and video communication to understand who this person is (agree that getting fake ID causes certain thoughts)
- for some reason (I do not believe in fear for my own life, it's stupid), this person refuses video communication
- He starts a campaign against the exchange, accusing ChangeNow of "fraud".


Now the question: what is fraud? Sending fake ID is not cheating? So the scammer accuses of fraud, spreading information, usually not mentioning what caused the problem - FAKE ID and his "frivolity".

Do you understand me? This is absurd, we did not see this transaction! That is, the exchange could generally deny this operation, but they recognize this, try to solve the problem, but as I see, OP wants to return the coins, remaining unknown. I think this is wrong.

Imagine, in place of ChangeNow, any known exchange in a similar situation. What could write all here on the forum, if in this situation was Binance?

And the last thing. I've seen so many times about ChangeNow that I'm ready to poke my eyes out. I admit, I do not like the methods of ni23457, and I do not understand why the majority of the participants of the forum support OP. Nobody but a few people is aware that this problem is the fault of both sides.


Let me humor you. I'll bite.

You are right about both sides being at fault. However, the fact remains that only the OP has lost something. Changenow can get away with their mistakes + $70.000. If they had handled this better it would never have come to this, which leads me and many others to think this is selective scamming.

Changenow mistakes

1) They claimed to be anonymous and unlimited, hence attracting the OPs business.
2) They never warned the OP, before depositing his coins, that the transaction had been flagged and they would require KYC. This would have prevented this mess. Unless, it is standard practice in crypto, to trap peoples coins then demand KYC. I know gambling websites love doing this.
3) Upon the OPs refusal to cooperate, they should have reported the matter to the appropriate regulatory bodies, if they suspected him of any malfeasance. Or simply returned the coins to the same address.
4) This is most important for me. How can a business that hides behind a shell company in Belize demand KYC? These cowardly fuckers deleted their information from their whitepaper. Who does that? All for $70K? If they are legitimate, they wouldn't be hiding behind Polina's skirts. Are these men you wanna entrust your coins and personal information to? These same people threatened the OP? It's all here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5007142.msg45176576#msg45176576

You keep banging on about his wallets and addresses. He is not obligated to share them with you. Imagine strangers asking to see your bank accounts or physical wallets, how will you feel? Luckily, the exchange isn't denying they received the coins, making this point irrelevant.

OPs mistake:

1) Sending that much to this little known exchange without doing his due diligence
2) Sending the 1st ID. He should have refused and stood his ground.

About his response and spreading the word about this scam. How do you expect him to deal with it? For one, he is never going to send them his ID. So what do you suggest? Please don't say KYC, cos we all know that he won't. He is doing what he feels is necessary to retrieve his property. You may not like his tactics, but IMO he hasn't done anything wrong drawing attention to this issue. At the end of the day, if Changenow isn't a scam, they will be a better exchange for it.
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September 13, 2018, 06:12:25 PM
 #360

I don't know them. But they look like a very small exchange under threat by the russian authorities. And 70000 usds are a lot of money for a small exchange already burned by this scam. Since the OP has personal details from them he can try use that, but we all know how things work on Russia. OP you have all my sympathy but say goodbye to your money.

Lol, new farmed acc.

Ni23457, could you please buy better accs? We don’t believe you Smiley
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