[ActiveMining] Official Shareholder Discussion Thread [Moderated]

[zumzero]

We are mining bitcoins not the US Dollar.  To say that we will mine $X and then the mine will be dead does not hold when there are so many unknowns at this time.

There is no 28nm chip.  He has a mining farm with his own custom boards.  That's going to maybe make $200,000 to $300,000 before it's dead.  That means everyone gets 3 cents total per share before this company is out of money unless Ken sells more shares to generate enough funds to build a custom chip.

EDIT:  It could be the case that Ken has been expecting everything to be out in the open by the end March, namely the hardware products and specs (selling and listed on the website) and the mining farm details etc.
If that has been the case it would tie in with his statement that financials would be released around the same time as these may throw light on things.  Just a thought.

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[tempestb]

Chip Fabs don't take Bitcoin.  But have it your way ZZ.  It's certainly possible that Bitcoins will be worth 10,000 USD in a week's time.

I dunno why Ken has received such optimism from you, but he should do more to earn it.

I'm done talking about it.  Until we all have our shares, this talk of chips and bitcoin value is really pointless anyway.  Might as well be arguing over who makes the better paper-airplane.

[drawingthesun]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-25/bitcoin-is-property-not-currency-in-tax-system-irs-says.html

So after we deduct the losses (Several million dollars) ActiveMining will have to sell 30%-40% of every mined bitcoin on the day!

So now we have only a third for reinvestment and a third for dividends.

[stenkross]

The dividends must be insane for the shares to reach that kind of valuation.

Dividends and Hype. The shares will not be worth that much, but dumb money tends to follow smart money and be irritional when doing so. When this operation succeeds and the selling resistance from shareholders like drawingthesun is dried up the price will be pumped to insane levels by stupid investors, this is when I will be selling. Last year we saw AM share price go to 2-4 BTC +...any fool buying at those prices didn't realize how inflated the company was with a market cap of 2 Million BTC. The same thing is bound to happen to this company when the shock and awe of success kicks in.


edit: I do indeed have information that the public does not, all because of some careful digging by myself

Well, I'm glad that someone else than Zum is positive, he sure can use some help.
Personally, I went from positive to sceptic back in december last year, and I haven't changed my opinion since.

right now I'm gonna place myself in the 'sceptic corner' and not trust a single word from Ken unless there is some kind of proof backing it up.

[JoTheKhan]

@Zum I think $300,000 is around the net Revenue the 200TH will get us if we start hashing now. (I didn't source any of this, just making a small assumption. I apologize)

670,000 of 850,000 lost. 100,000 of which shouldn't be paid back (Due to it being Mt.Gox and they are in debt for it). So 750,000?

https://twitter.com/CanarslanEren/statuses/448418452701974528¹

NOTICE: Anything said below is purely from the tweet that was posted in this thread a few comments up. NOTICE AGAIN: Do not claim that them finding 670,000BTC is fact yet, or that they will be paying back that 670,000BTC is fact either. ²

If they pay back at a ratio of 670/850 that's .788BTC back per BTC lost. We lost like 450 coins? .788* 450 gets us about 350BTC back.

If they pay back at a ratio of 670/750 that's .892BTC back per BTC lost. Again that is .892 * 450 or about 401BTC.

1. Apparently this guy knew about the 200,000 that was found before it was announced too. I would take this with a healthy dose of salt though.

2. I noticed that some guys like to take rumors in this thread, exaggerate them, turn the exaggeration into fact, and then yell at people because it really wasn't a fact in the first place.

[tempestb]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-25/bitcoin-is-property-not-currency-in-tax-system-irs-says.html

So after we deduct the losses (Several million dollars) ActiveMining will have to sell 30%-40% of every mined bitcoin on the day!

So now we have only a third for reinvestment and a third for dividends.

It'd be a capital gain subject to around 15% tax.  But that's only if the gains are spent.  In other words, the IRS sees this as an item.  You sell the item, then the IRS gets their 15%.  If you don't sell the item, they don't get anything.  So if Ken distributes the items to share holders (Ha!) then each person would be responsible for their own capital gain tax.  Since a lot of people live out of the country, they would not be subject to the tax.  U.S. Tax Filers would be.  And generally the IRS isn't interested unless you move around more than $10,000.  Though they'd like you to report if you've made more than $600 on anything, they don't really flag something for an investigation unless it's over $10,000.  I believe Amazon sends tax papers to the IRS for their resellers if they make more than $11,000 in a year.  So that gives you some idea.  If Amazon isn't reporting on anyone making less than $11,000 I'm pretty sure we don't have anything to worry about.

It's the same as buying a stock on the stock market.  Not that big of a deal. 

[JoTheKhan]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-25/bitcoin-is-property-not-currency-in-tax-system-irs-says.html

So after we deduct the losses (Several million dollars) ActiveMining will have to sell 30%-40% of every mined bitcoin on the day!

So now we have only a third for reinvestment and a third for dividends.

It'd be a capital gain subject to around 15% tax.  But that's only if the gains are spent.  In other words, the IRS sees this as an item.  You sell the item, then the IRS gets their 15%.  If you don't sell the item, they don't get anything.  So if Ken distributes the items to share holders (Ha!) then each person would be responsible for their own capital gain tax.  Since a lot of people live out of the country, they would not be subject to the tax.  U.S. Tax Filers would be.  And generally the IRS isn't interested unless you move around more than $10,000.  Though they'd like you to report if you've made more than $600 on anything, they don't really flag something for an investigation unless it's over $10,000.  I believe Amazon sends tax papers to the IRS for their resellers if they make more than $11,000 in a year.  So that gives you some idea.  If Amazon isn't reporting on anyone making less than $11,000 I'm pretty sure we don't have anything to worry about.

It's the same as buying a stock on the stock market.  Not that big of a deal. 

I believe Coinbase reports on $10,000 and over also. I don't know if its $10,000 in one sale or $10,000 throughout the year though. I know little and less about tax laws and tax policies.

[tempestb]

Money laundering rules require financial institutions to report on any single transaction over $10,000    It's why Rush Limbaugh would take out $9,000 at a time to support his drug habit.  (True!)

[22naru]

good news maybe in 1 month we can start to trade   our shares.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=517139.0

[knybe]

The dividends must be insane for the shares to reach that kind of valuation.

Dividends and Hype. The shares will not be worth that much, but dumb money tends to follow smart money and be irritional when doing so. When this operation succeeds and the selling resistance from shareholders like drawingthesun is dried up the price will be pumped to insane levels by stupid investors, this is when I will be selling. Last year we saw AM share price go to 2-5 BTC +...any fool buying at those prices didn't realize how inflated the company was with a market cap of 2 Million BTC. The same thing is bound to happen to this company when the shock and awe of success kicks in.


edit: I do indeed have information that the public does not, all because of some careful digging by myself

I love how you're stirring up the popcorn kettle.

[toastee]

The dividends must be insane for the shares to reach that kind of valuation.

Dividends and Hype. The shares will not be worth that much, but dumb money tends to follow smart money and be irritional when doing so. When this operation succeeds and the selling resistance from shareholders like drawingthesun is dried up the price will be pumped to insane levels by stupid investors, this is when I will be selling. Last year we saw AM share price go to 2-4 BTC +...any fool buying at those prices didn't realize how inflated the company was with a market cap of 2 Million BTC. The same thing is bound to happen to this company when the shock and awe of success kicks in.


edit: I do indeed have information that the public does not, all because of some careful digging by myself

Well, I'm glad that someone else than Zum is positive, he sure can use some help.
Personally, I went from positive to sceptic back in december last year, and I haven't changed my opinion since.

Not all of the optimists feel the need to post here very often. I'm certainly in the same camp as thefunkybits.

[kslaughter]

ZZ...  You can take 100th and go to a mining estimate site and figure out for yourself how much that will generate over a period of time.  The difficulty is only so good until BFL, Black Arrow, KNC and Asicminer start shipping.  They are all really imminent.  And so far, Ken hasn't shipped anything so doing any calculations against today's difficulty is a bit pointless as well since we don't know really when these miners will actually be installed and then start mining for VMC.  They first have to mine for AMC refunds.

  We asked Ken how much money AMC and VMC has.  You can look back through his comments, I'm not going to quote him.  He said AMC has 1400 some Bitcoins total and provided access to the wallet.  And that VMC lost all their funds on MtGox so he could no longer conduct refunds.

Where is the rest of the money?  That's a fine question.  I'm with you on that one.  That has never been explained.  eASIC had some supposedly which likely went to fund the boards.

I believe Ken said he'd provide all the financial information at the end of March, as this was his optioning to postpone sending in a third party auditor of the operation.  I think if that doesn't happen (Which it likely won't) I think we should have the auditor go in and provide us info that Ken does not.  Then we'd all have our answers.

Wrong, VMC did not loose all of it funds; however, the MtGox losses reduced our cash postion to a place where we had to delay refunds.  Those refunds will be paid out from VMC funds not AMC funds.

[DeadwoodDan]

Wrong, VMC did not loose all of it funds; however, the MtGox losses reduced our cash postion to a place where we had to delay refunds.  Those refunds will be paid out from VMC funds not AMC funds.

When can we get a real financial statement with meaningful information, listing all the various expenses over the years?

[tempestb]

Wrong, VMC did not loose all of it funds; however, the MtGox losses reduced our cash postion to a place where we had to delay refunds.  Those refunds will be paid out from VMC funds not AMC funds.

Based on what you wrote earlier, I'm assuming that VMC is charging AMC for the hardware.  So in other words, VMC is producing these boards and AMC is buying the hardware from VMC.  Is this correct?  Because if so, then you're just doing a shell-game where AMC is paying the refunds by buying boards at whatever premium you choose from VMC.

But if VMC is producing these boards and AMC is buying them, then what did you do with all of AMC's money?

[elmwar]

Wrong, VMC did not loose all of it funds; however, the MtGox losses reduced our cash postion to a place where we had to delay refunds.  Those refunds will be paid out from VMC funds not AMC funds.

When can we get a real financial statement with meaningful information, listing all the various expenses over the years?

Within a few days if Ken is a man of his word.

I've been advised that the best first step we as shareholders could make is to have the company audited by an independent third party, if necessary funded by us as a group.

I can see no reason why Ken should not allow this unless he has something to hide - it would cost the company nothing, the information would only be provided to actual shareholders and not released into the public domain. IT would prove once and for all if our situation is a result of a scam or just simple mismanagement and incompetence and would provide us with physical evidence one way or the other.  There are 3-4 members of staff that are just twiddling their thumbs at the moment and have been for the last 6 months at least, I'm sure they can find time to pull up whatever documents the auditor requires.

@Ken - will you allow an independent third party chosen by shareholders to do a full audit of the company? The shareholders will agree to collectively fund the audit and reimburse the company for any staff hours lost due to the audit.


I suggest we all continue to ask this question from Ken until we get a definitive response. If he refuses to allow this I think we have our answer as to whether or not this is an outright scam or not.

I have no problem with that; however, I don't think it is necessary as we will be releasing financials for last year by the end of the month.

[shrodes]

Wednesday update this week?

[kslaughter]

Weekly Update 3/26/2014

AMC Mining:

We have completed the signing of our lease for our ~3,700 sq feet datacenter.  The datacenter has 2 480 Volt 250 amp 3 phase power supplies, plus a backup generator which supplies the same amount, the air conditioning has it own power supply.  we are in the process of bringing this datacenter online with ~100 TH of mining equipment.  We also expect to increase to 200 TH within 4 weeks after bringing up the first 100 TH.  The datacenters power and air conditioning can easily support up to 800 TH of mining equipment.  We are planning on adding 100 TH per month until we reach the maximum above.

Shares:

We want to get share trading up and running on Colored Coins as soon as it is safe and legal to do so.

VMC:

VMC will be issuing a press release in the near future.

 

[drawingthesun]

Ken. Are we still creating a 28nm chip of our own? Or is that project on hold?

Also, I assume the boards we are using are our own. Is that correct (minus whoever's chip we're using for now)

[DeadwoodDan]

Weekly Update 3/26/2014

AMC Mining:

We have completed the signing of our lease for our ~3,700 sq feet datacenter.  The datacenter has 2 480 Volt 250 amp 3 phase power supplies, plus a backup generator which supplies the same amount, the air conditioning has it own power supply.  we are in the process of bringing this datacenter online with ~100 TH of mining equipment.  We also expect to increase to 200 TH within 4 weeks after bringing up the first 100 TH.  The datacenters power and air conditioning can easily support up to 800 TH of mining equipment.  We are planning on adding 100 TH per month until we reach the maximum above.

Shares:

We want to get share trading up and running on Colored Coins as soon as it is safe and legal to do so.

VMC:

VMC will be issuing a press release in the near future.

 

How much space did you lease, and how much will it cost?  How long is the lease, and when do you estimate the miners not to make a profit anymore?

Is it safe and legal for ActiveMining to be trading right now on Crypto-Trade, where you recently sold Ukyo's shares?  Because trading is still going on there. 

[kslaughter]

What happened with the Eligius hash power?

The Eligius hash power was from a Demo/Development board.  This hashing power is subject to removal at any time to do a Demo or to do Development work.  We are using the board at the present time to help us bringing up our 100 TH along with the boards power supply which has to be modified.