[ActiveMining] Official Shareholder Discussion Thread [Moderated]

[LorenzoMoney]

I agree totally with Wildfire.ca.
His reasoning on why it make sense to go with Havelock is very clear.
Also, it really is about time that the BitFunder shares get transferred over to a real exchange.
There have been enough promises and delays in doing that.

When will we verify our shares? Or has that time already passed? I have all the info needed from bitfunder just need to verify them with ken. Has everyone done this already? should I just pm him?

That is a great question I have listed Ken's responses to questions about when shares will be verified and able to be traded for you below.

Sorry for the delay in getting Crypto-Trade up and running.  I am still working on some legal aspects of the tender offer. December 17th

Edit: Getting trading up and running is now my number one mission. 21st Jan 2014

We will start moving Investors shares to Crypto-Trade within the next 7 days. - Jan 22nd 2014

We will start the process of verifying the shares tomorrow. Jan 30th 2014

It is going to be a few more days before, I can get the verifying program uploaded to the server. Jan 31st 2014

Yes, I will be working on this the next few days.  I don't see to many problems getting it running ASAP. Jan 31st 2014

I am hoping to get shareholders shares transferred ASAP and get full trading up and running. Feb 13th 2014

In response to 'AND GET US OUR SHARES AND DIVS!'

KEn's reply 'Working on that.' March 31st 2014

Next week I will start transferring shares to CT so our investors can start trading. 4th April 2014

I will start working on the verification program on Monday, moving it up to the server and testing it out. April 6th

Working on getting the verification site up this week. April 9th 2014

The end of the week is 3 days away, please make this happen. I don't want to have to hear that you're working on getting us our share's for the 11th time in 4 months. I honestly think you should get us listed at https://www.havelockinvestments.com They are government accredited, have their money transmitting license and they have decent volume. It is very easy to get listed there and they are more than willing to help you get listed. I have been dealing with them for one and a half years now with no problems and I send every Canuck I know that wants to buy coins to www.cavirtex.com/orderbook, Havelock's sister company. CT's total 24h volume for every single security that they have listed is less than 1 coin. There 30 day average for all security's listed is also less than one coin, where AM's 24hr average on Havelock is 25 coins a day. Being listed on the same site as our competitor would be a great benefit as we could take advantage of the speculators bouncing between companies. Canada is and has been very Bitcoin friendly when most other country's can't seem to make up their mind day to day. Also contact Bitpay and get us a BTC payment processor, we are a Bitcoin mining company, that sells Bitcoin mining gear, but we do not take Bitcoin? Still to this day I have a hard time believing that someone could have had coins on Mt. Gox. 90% of people that are in Bitcoin knew that Mountain of Cox was a POS company and was doing a death rattle.  If you could screen shot your Mt. Gox profile screen and show it to the people waiting for refunds they might be a bit more understanding. I think this is one of the times when you were not telling people what was going on and it could have been prevented. It has been stated before that within your shareholders you have some very knowledgeable people that want nothing but the best for this company. Feel free to ask for peoples opinions on stuff, you don't have to take the advice but if you were to just put the idea out there we would have never lost 200 coins for example. Remember, it takes a pillage to raze a village, or something like that.  For the most part the shareholders are extremely glad to see progress and that we can see some light at the end of the tunnel, but as shareholders we do wish to hold our share's.

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[gogxmagog]

I propose that all shareholders who actually did transfer to AMC tender get rewarded with immediate transfer to CT and let Ken figure out the rest.

[Simon Templar]

This is beyond a joke.  Ken needs to sort out the shares mess immediately.  If he doesn't then I would strongly suggest he stops referencing the shares in his updates because it's now got to the stage where doing so is blatant deception.  No more words on this issue Ken only action is acceptable.  Get it done today.

[gogxmagog]

I know

With btc collapsing, I would like to cash out my hodlings  pdq

[gjpminingco]

he achieves absolutely nothing by holding the shares, You folks have been hounding him to get stuff done and now that is is busting his ass and balls on trying to get the farm up and running now you guys also want to make him get the shares going at the same time, I wish people would just pick one item for ken to work and focus on and then don't bitch and whine and complain when he dont finish the other item that he stopped doing to work on what you wanted him to work on


Me and ken may not see eye to eye on things but i respect the man for all he has accomplished and done, and if some of you would just take the time to get to know the man you will see he is actually pretty cool and someone you can have an intelligent conversation with


N.

Admin of DCMCo-Op.com

[VinceSamios]

Looking at daily volumes, I very much would prefer ActM trade on havelock... which has literally 50x the daily volume...

Also I believe havelock have offered to do all the hard work in verifying shares etc...

[drawingthesun]

Looking at daily volumes, I very much would prefer ActM trade on havelock... which has literally 50x the daily volume...

Also I believe havelock have offered to do all the hard work in verifying shares etc...

+1.

Also CT is still broken displaying 700,000 issued shares.

[sparky999]

he achieves absolutely nothing by holding the shares, You folks have been hounding him to get stuff done and now that is is busting his ass and balls on trying to get the farm up and running now you guys also want to make him get the shares going at the same time, I wish people would just pick one item for ken to work and focus on and then don't bitch and whine and complain when he dont finish the other item that he stopped doing to work on what you wanted him to work on


Me and ken may not see eye to eye on things but i respect the man for all he has accomplished and done, and if some of you would just take the time to get to know the man you will see he is actually pretty cool and someone you can have an intelligent conversation with


N.

Admin of DCMCo-Op.com

For most people the issue is the constant quotes form Ken saying 'shares are my top priority' 'share transfer will start tomorrow' etc etc he hasn't missed his own deadline once or twice it is actually a full dozen times he has told us he is about to start doing share verification/transfer and missed every one of his personally set deadlines.

He has even said the verification program is ready and just needs uploading to the server and then told us a few weeks later that he is about to start work on the share verification program - I mean at least one of those comments has to be an outright lie.

[minerpart]

On another note. Is the bitcoin price drop a good or bad thing for activemining?

It depends on how we hold our reserves - cash or BTC. I've mentioned a few times on here that if we held reserves in BTC it might be a good time to think about converting to FIAT to ride out the coming depreciation. No-one was interested, not a single comment on it if I remember correctly. Now this may be coming to bite us on the ass - maybe not if we have FIAT reserves.

I've asked Ken about the company sustaining itself through a big fall in BTC prices. I suggested we should be in a position to be able to suspend operations (switch off the farm, halt R+D, lay of contractors) to reduce costs near to zero. I think that would be a strong position to be in because a lot of mining companies (farms and sales) could go out of business if BTC stays at $200 for a few months. If we could stay solvent during that scenario we would be able to quickly re-start operations when BTC recovers. As a bonus we would at that point likely gain a larger share of the hash network which would have been reduced in size if other mining operations who tried to work through the fall had ended up bankrupt.

Anyway Ken said BTC would have to fall a very long way before our mining farm couldn't cover the rent and electric bill.

[drawingthesun]

On another note. Is the bitcoin price drop a good or bad thing for activemining?

It depends on how we hold our reserves - cash or BTC. I've mentioned a few times on here that if we held reserves in BTC it might be a good time to think about converting to FIAT to ride out the coming depreciation. No-one was interested, not a single comment on it if I remember correctly. Now this may be coming to bite us on the ass - maybe not if we have FIAT reserves.

I've asked Ken about the company sustaining itself through a big fall in BTC prices. I suggested we should be in a position to be able to suspend operations (switch off the farm, halt R+D, lay of contractors) to reduce costs near to zero. I think that would be a strong position to be in because a lot of mining companies (farms and sales) could go out of business if BTC stays at $200 for a few months. If we could stay solvent during that scenario we would be able to quickly re-start operations when BTC recovers. As a bonus we would at that point likely gain a larger share of the hash network which would have been reduced in size if other mining operations who tried to work through the fall had ended up bankrupt.

Anyway Ken said BTC would have to fall a very long way before our mining farm couldn't cover the rent and electric bill.

1) If the difficulty does decrease because many miners stop hashing then this might be good advice.

2) If the difficulty continues to increase even at $100 levels then this advice is the end of us. Because when the price goes back up the difficulty is now 10 - 100 times what is was when we stopped.

If 1 happens then looking into a type of close down scenario might work. However...

If 2 happens and we close down, we might as well never turn on again no matter the price.

My fear:

Most miners are irrational actors and will continue to mine at a loss or are continuing to mine because of cheap electricity and a location in cold climates.

EDIT:

If we really are buying GH for $1 then we are in a good position compared to most of the miners in the network. I am interested what the monthly power bill to run 100Th/s - 1,000Th/s would be including Air Con.

Also Minerpart, we can't really reduce costs to zero, we would have to pay datacentre rent or move the entire stock into cold storage and pay that rent. Storage can be expensive for us because it needs to be somewhat climate controlled as humidity can ruin electronics that are just sitting there.

[Flashman]

My gut feelings are...

* BTC is worth mining at a cost equal to modest mid term price projections i.e. if you think it's definitely going to top $3000 a year hence, then you will mine at a cost of $3000/BTC

* Fiat reserve should be in the neighbourhood of 3-6 months running costs.

* Reserve should be tapped when BTC 90 day moving average drops... or other xx day rolling average, or 10% drop from, some chart work to optimise that would be good.

[minerpart]

My gut feelings are...

* BTC is worth mining at a cost equal to modest mid term price projections i.e. if you think it's definitely going to top $3000 a year hence, then you will mine at a cost of $3000/BTC

But if it's costing you $250 to mine a single BTC and you can buy coins on an exchange for $180 it makes no economic sense to keep mining - unless the 'running costs' for a switched off datacentre exceed $70 per coin that you buy on an exchange. Does that make sense?

[drawingthesun]

My gut feelings are...

* BTC is worth mining at a cost equal to modest mid term price projections i.e. if you think it's definitely going to top $3000 a year hence, then you will mine at a cost of $3000/BTC

But if it's costing you $250 to mine a single BTC and you can buy coins on an exchange for $180 it makes no economic sense to keep mining - unless the 'running costs' for a switched off datacentre exceed $70 per coin that you buy on an exchange. Does that make sense?

Well this discussion revolves around the electricity (boards+cooling) being more expensive than just buying bitcoin with cash.

I wonder what that price point is. The hashfast chips are meant to be some of the most efficient on the market. If anyone is left mining it would be us right?

I can't imagine $200 a coin being anywhere near the cost of the power+aircon.

[sparky999]

My gut feelings are...

* BTC is worth mining at a cost equal to modest mid term price projections i.e. if you think it's definitely going to top $3000 a year hence, then you will mine at a cost of $3000/BTC

* Fiat reserve should be in the neighbourhood of 3-6 months running costs.

* Reserve should be tapped when BTC 90 day moving average drops... or other xx day rolling average, or 10% drop from, some chart work to optimise that would be good.

This post has to be a complete level, right? I literally con not even begin to imagine the thought process that made you arrive at this conclusion. I would strongly suggest you take a mathematics 101 course because your gut is going to lose every penny you own currently.

[Flashman]

No, if you react in fear at every single twitch of the exchange rate and difficulty, you'll not make money.... in retrospect you can look at the charts and say, if I'd switched off exactly there, and turned on exactly there, I'd be $$ better off, but yah, I can do that too, take the chart data from 2013 and I'll show you how only an idiot would have failed to make a million bucks from an initial 50 cent investment...

Don't even attempt to predict every future second of time, and micromanage accordingly, you'll never do shit, you'll turn on too late, you'll sell too late, you'll turn off too early, play the general trend.

[drawingthesun]

No, if you react in fear at every single twitch of the exchange rate and difficulty, you'll not make money.... in retrospect you can look at the charts and say, if I'd switched off exactly there, and turned on exactly there, I'd be $$ better off, but yah, I can do that too, take the chart data from 2013 and I'll show you how only an idiot would have failed to make a million bucks from an initial 50 cent investment...

Don't even attempt to predict every future second of time, and micromanage accordingly, you'll never do shit, you'll turn on too late, you'll sell too late, you'll turn off too early, play the general trend.

I think the point was; if it costs more in electricity to mine a bitcoin, we must not mine that bitcoin but rather buy it instead. Mining at a real loss due to the energy required cannot be done. If we had funds to drown into a hole of energy waste we would rather buy bitcoin to get a better return.

However I am not convinced that $100 - $300 bitcoins will be uneconomical to mine. If someone could make an educated guess as to our electricity costs, the efficiency of the miners and the cost of cooling a datacentre we might be able to compile a realistic price point for unprofitable mining where we are spending more fiat on energy than getting in bitcoin (hence the logic of buying that bitcoin instead)

[sparky999]

No, if you react in fear at every single twitch of the exchange rate and difficulty, you'll not make money.... in retrospect you can look at the charts and say, if I'd switched off exactly there, and turned on exactly there, I'd be $$ better off, but yah, I can do that too, take the chart data from 2013 and I'll show you how only an idiot would have failed to make a million bucks from an initial 50 cent investment...

Don't even attempt to predict every future second of time, and micromanage accordingly, you'll never do shit, you'll turn on too late, you'll sell too late, you'll turn off too early, play the general trend.

I think the point was; if it costs more in electricity to mine a bitcoin, we must not mine that bitcoin but rather buy it instead. Mining at a real loss due to the energy required cannot be done. If we had funds to drown into a hole of energy waste we would rather buy bitcoin to get a better return.

However I am not convinced that $100 - $300 bitcoins will be uneconomical to mine. If someone could make an educated guess as to our electricity costs, the efficiency of the miners and the cost of cooling a datacentre we might be able to compile a realistic price point for unprofitable mining where we are spending more fiat on energy than getting in bitcoin (hence the logic of buying that bitcoin instead)

I feel like your wasting your breath here. If he can't see what is wrong with his gut after two explanations, I think the third and fourth are just burning unnecessary calories.

[Ozymandias2]

So are we expecting to reach 60th/s in the next day or so?

Soon, we have one part that was on backorder, holding us up.  We will have the part in on Friday morning.

Did that part show up?

[kslaughter]

So are we expecting to reach 60th/s in the next day or so?

Soon, we have one part that was on backorder, holding us up.  We will have the part in on Friday morning.

Did that part show up?

Yes, they are being installed now.   That is way the hash rate is going down, due to the fact that we have to shutdown some machines when we install the part.

[auto2nr1]

So are we expecting to reach 60th/s in the next day or so?

Soon, we have one part that was on backorder, holding us up.  We will have the part in on Friday morning.

Did that part show up?

Yes, they are being installed now.   That is way the hash rate is going down, due to the fact that we have to shutdown some machines when we install the part.

Thanks for the update. The week is almost over. Are we ready to start verifying our shares so we can start trading next week?