[ANN][WOLF] Project WOLF

[m0rf3u5]

We are in a situation where two things can happen now:

• People stop buying WOLF - consider nobody else buys all week, there is 100 BTC in the pot for next week already, the results will be more like week one with 80% average profit
• People keep buying WOLF - more BTC pots fill, and we get closer to the point where the supply is empty, with weekly 100 BTC bumps, short term profit is lower, mid term profit is higher

So I presume all the coins are given out when the BTC is received, not held over like the pot?

Honestly though, which of you thought that your fellow informed traders would let you double your bitcoin so easily?

I never expect it to be easy, I just expected there to be more of a game, more action. It is called Insanitycoin after all. This week it was Wetpaperbagcoin, the market got a little fluid and the bottom fell out pretty quickly. I'm picking up my groceries off the floor

[InsanityDev]

So I presume all the coins are given out when the BTC is received, not held over like the pot?

Correct.

I never expect it to be easy, I just expected there to be more of a game, more action. It is called Insanitycoin after all. This week it was Wetpaperbagcoin, the market got a little fluid and the bottom fell out pretty quickly. I'm picking up my groceries off the floor

Couldn't agree more, hence changing the dynamics a bit to give us scope to have a few hours of fun on market

new (big) week tomorrow, must sleep!

[flo_k]

• Trade List: http://5.9.111.71/results/w2/trades.csv

The prices are not visible, only zeros. Could you fix the list and repost it?

[JTB800]

I am a little nonplussed why people seem upset and/or surprised by the results for the week. Yes, I thought the price would be a bit higher on Sunday, but the general pattern was obvious.

I'm not trying to pretend that I am some expert trader. Even if someone didn't bother to think it through (busy lives and all that), these very pages had comments that explained how it was going to be this past week. It may behoove all to keep an eye on these pages for a little insight. Not only do many of the people commenting, flesh out the machinations of the "game", but Insanity Dev himself offers tips on a regular basis.

And while I am not disagreeing with some that have said it was a little less exciting than they had envisioned, I do want to push back a little. While it was certainly interesting how the prices turned out these past two weeks, I really had no desire to watch the events for 6 straight hours. (now 14). I have to refresh Poloniex every time I want to see what has happened anyway (maybe I am doing something wrong there), so it's not like I am seeing it live anyway.

I guess what I am saying is that I think that the excitement level is somewhat important for the entertainment value, I suppose, and one can glean some information from the way the trading unfolds. But, it is the results themselves that I find just as interesting and more useful. At least as it has gone on so far. 

[ap3311]

The problem with the tips from the dev etc is that they only work when everybody works together. That is never going to happen in a million years. Instead we all just put our sell orders lower and lower, that's human nature.

The only reason people made a decent profit in week 1 was because it had just started, low visability, some people didn't trust the dev or the game etc. Exactly the same as BTC.

Each week the average profit will go down and down.

[bitwarrior]

The problem with the tips from the dev etc is that they only work when everybody works together. That is never going to happen in a million years. Instead we all just put our sell orders lower and lower, that's human nature.

The only reason people made a decent profit in week 1 was because it had just started, low visability, some people didn't trust the dev or the game etc. Exactly the same as BTC.

Each week the average profit will go down and down.

Unless there is another alpha wolf lurking around and hopefully make a prepump and not a predump.

[JTB800]

The problem with the tips from the dev etc is that they only work when everybody works together. That is never going to happen in a million years. Instead we all just put our sell orders lower and lower, that's human nature.

The only reason people made a decent profit in week 1 was because it had just started, low visability, some people didn't trust the dev or the game etc. Exactly the same as BTC.

Each week the average profit will go down and down.

Yes, but that is what I am saying. If one had read the this forum before this past Sunday, they could have seen comments explaining why the 2nd Sunday was naturally going to have more downward pressure on pricing than the first Sunday. So, even if one impulsively bought some WOLF from the developer without really thinking through the "game", there were many commenters on this thread who explained it thoroughly.

As far as the developer's tips go, you really only mention one aspect. But, yes, there is indeed a very good reason to band together to become a "whale". The advantages of doing something like that are obvious, although possibly exaggerated (depending on how the "game" unfolds). The fact that it hasn't occurred yet (as far as I know) is not really his fault.

Of course, you are right in that human nature makes some of that difficult and could torpedo even a wily whale's game plan, but it could still work, especially assuming that the day trader's numbers are just not that high at this moment. But, one could go on and on of various strategies regarding individuals as well as a pack of WOLVES (whale).

My whole point is that Sunday's results were generally telegraphed ahead of time by a few comments on this very forum. So that even someone that hadn't really given the "game" more than a cursory thought could have caught up on the current thinking by reading just two or three pages of this forum.

[InsanityDev]

DEVELOPER UPDATE

Game Change
Repeating in case anybody missed it.

Decision
I want to change this back over two weeks to how it was.

Week 3
I will be buying and selling, making whale moves in both directions, and the spread will change up and down over several hours. Those playing will make the most money for the week by buying and selling, and focussing what I, the whale, am doing. Expect no huge bumps, just a volatile market where active traders will make profit... obviously a fair chunk of buy orders will be filled in the process though.

Week 4 - Supply End
The time will change from a fixed 6 hours, to me trading with the pot at any time whilst the supply is closed. 12:00 Sunday to 10:00 Monday.

Supply End - Week 9
Bump, at a random time each weekend, 100 BTC will buy up the book in a single order as high as it will go.

I've changed parameters based on feedback several times, it's made the game more boring, getting back to roots now

update

• Week 3: BTC Pot at 100 BTC
• Week 4: BTC Pot at 7.5 BTC
• Yesterday's Results & Coin Destruction: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5467732#msg5467732

Onwards!
This week is focussed on getting the website and information resources ready, along with defining the after-game block chain chain parameters.

On the last insanity sunday a market determined value of wolf will be established, with cap etc, at that point the game is over and we need the coin to be stable at it's core for all holders and users.
The current proposal is:

• KGW or a slight modification of it
• removal of percentage based fee, replace with a traditional fixed 0.002 WOLF fee
• a block reward of 0.48 WOLF for weeks 9-26 (total of 17 weeks, this would produce 27417.6 WOLF, 1612.8 per week)
• a block reward of 0.24 WOLF for weeks 26-52 (this would produce 20966.4, 806.4 per week)
• a permanent block reward of 0.12 WOLF after week 52 (this would produce 20966.4 per year)

previous discussion starts around here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5448417#msg5448417

Long Term

Now that we are entering the mid-game, would now the time to enlighten us with your future plans?

It will make a big impact on peoples decision whether to continue playing every week.
If there is the risk that I can't get rid of my WOLF with profit on Sundays, I'd like to have a positive outlook on the future of the coin.

I'd love to enlighten you all, I have mentioned several things in previous posts on this thread. There are a number of features which will potentially be rolled out, in which order, or which ones make the cut remain to be seen.

Generally, I'll be looking at migrating crypto currencies over to the web, first by boostrapping a number of key elements like the block chain, mining (in browser, perhaps as an alternative to the advert sponsored web), secure browser side web wallets & extensions, anonymous key pair authentication, distributed exchange, trade chains (like block chain but for exchange trades over different block chains), etc.. then there's the other side (wolf pack) which could cover anything from a decentralized whale (pack of traders voting on which trades to make acting as a whale, gamified), voting with currency and similar

So that gives a rough idea, I've been prototyping and planning for a few years now, my choice came down to creating a monster all in one like vitalik has with ethereum, or doing things iteratively on a working coin, adding features naturally so people can see their utility (or non-utility). I felt there was a need for a trading game, or coin that wasn't held by miners, and one thing naturally led to another and this felt like a natural path for me to take.

First though, comes the website and utilities on it to get measures on WOLF (coin supply, results, pot size, perhaps automated issuing of coins, etc), working on that this week.

n.b. there is a proper test chain also to test features on.

hope that helps.

edit: please do bear with me, we're only 14 days in though, it's been huge so far, I've done 300 posts,  30+ pages of in depth discussion, even more pms, over 100 traders and investors, 300 BTC of business, organised trading events, planning, maintenance etc, it's growing exponentially fast, and taking up 20 hours a day at the minute. I'm doing my very best to ensure this goes well for all.

Website and Information Resources
Please reply/pm/email any feature requests you have for the website. The obvious such as information, updates, weekly results, pot sizes, coin supply, general information, will of course be handled.

WOLF Supply is open again, same address as last week, ann updating now.

[Miracle_x]

 

[Philll90]

Week 3
I will be buying and selling, making whale moves in both directions, and the spread will change up and down over several hours. Those playing will make the most money for the week by buying and selling, and focussing what I, the whale, am doing. Expect no huge bumps, just a volatile market where active traders will make profit... obviously a fair chunk of buy orders will be filled in the process though.

I don't understand it. Is this for the whole current week or only for the insanity sunday next weekend? And what's the timeframe for this, same as the last two weekends or a new timeframe like week 4?

[flo_k]

That's simply your spreadsheet viewer needing a tweak, open the csv, highlight the trade column, then format -> number, and set the number of decimal places to 8

Yes, it's much better now: I see a 0 followed by other 8 zeros    
No, there is no information on the price column, the list of last week was ok and I could see it without problems (with both OpenOffice Calc and Ron's Editor).

[Zeegeuze]

Yes, it's much better now: I see a 0 followed by other 8 zeros    

Lol, 9 is better than 1, isn't it? 

[InsanityDev]

Yes, it's much better now: I see a 0 followed by other 8 zeros    

Lol, 9 is better than 1, isn't it? 

Whoops I see you what you mean, fixed.

Week 3
I will be buying and selling, making whale moves in both directions, and the spread will change up and down over several hours. Those playing will make the most money for the week by buying and selling, and focussing what I, the whale, am doing. Expect no huge bumps, just a volatile market where active traders will make profit... obviously a fair chunk of buy orders will be filled in the process though.

I don't understand it. Is this for the whole current week or only for the insanity sunday next weekend? And what's the timeframe for this, same as the last two weekends or a new timeframe like week 4?

Insanity Sunday this weekend (9th) timeframe 18:00-23:59.

[flo_k]

Whoops I see you what you mean, fixed.

Thanks

[gtac01]

So why should I buy from the dev when I can buy at .00095 from the exchange instantly?

[InsanityDev]

So why should I buy from the dev when I can buy at .00095 from the exchange instantly?

You should buy from the exchange at .00095 if it's available!

[gtac01]

So why should I buy from the dev when I can buy at .00095 from the exchange instantly?

You should buy from the exchange at .00095 if it's available!

What if it's always available under .001? The rest of the supply won't be bought and the pot won't be filled ?

It's as if there is a massive sell wall at .001 now from the dev..

[InsanityDev]

So why should I buy from the dev when I can buy at .00095 from the exchange instantly?

You should buy from the exchange at .00095 if it's available!

What if it's always available under .001? The rest of the supply won't be bought and the pot won't be filled ?

It's as if there is a massive sell wall at .001 now..

The "wall" is 1.5 btc worth of WOLF. The pot is 100 btc and there's only 61k WOLF in the book on poloniex and about the same in the wild after taking account of those holding + investors, destruction etc.

I think people have overestimated how much wolf is out there and available to purchase on market.. I could put up a 100 BTC wall at 0.001 and you couldn't empty it if you all dumped.

[The One]

So why should I buy from the dev when I can buy at .00095 from the exchange instantly?

Why ask silly a question when you already knew the answer.

[elija]

wow http://coinfinance.com/currencies/WOLF

Nice addition

BTC Pot is at ~65 BTC with about another 50 outstanding now from investors.

I'd like to discuss a money supply model for WOLF after 9 weeks, propose:

• removal of percentage based fee, replace with a traditional fixed 0.002 WOLF fee
• a block reward of 0.48 WOLF for weeks 9-26 (total of 17 weeks, this would produce 27417.6 WOLF, 1612.8 per week)
• a block reward of 0.24 WOLF for weeks 26-52 (this would produce 20966.4, 806.4 per week)
• a permanent block reward of 0.12 WOLF after week 52 (this would produce 20966.4 per year)

reasoning:

• 10% tx fee whilst fun at the start, will force hoarding and prevent people from moving WOLF around, even between exchanges
• the network needs supported, and miners need rewarded for that support
• we do not want to vastly increase the monetary supply, this proposal would mint ~8.5% of the wolf supply over the first year, then ~3.5% annually (slightly less than the world average inflation rate)

Please do comment, +1, or counter propose. offline for the night

It feels like this will go against the original WOLF spirit.  If possible, there should not be even a tiny amount of inflation.

To keep it rare after week 9, I think the block rewards should at most be equal to the 0.002 fee. e.g. you need to mine two blocks before you can send it.  This makes it more interesting.