★ ZEIT ★ [COMMUNITY & KNIGHTS] [ULTRA LOW INFLATION] [MICRO-PAYMENTS]

[LionOfNarnia]

Yes,

It is the responsibility of Ray, and Ray alone, to say what is to be & what is not.

The rest of us only have the choice of whether to support him, or not.

I have NO PROBLEM with that.

All I request is some clarity.

[kiklo]

What is being missed here is that Lion has made a point about gambling that he regards as a fundamental principle. I had a feeling that the issue was being glossed over as if his opinion didn't matter. Whilst I haven't agreed with everything Lion has said in the past, I regard him as major contributor to Zeitcoin. Without him, Zeitcoin wouldn't have the same voice. He should be listened to.

All he is asking for is a definite statement on Zeitcoin distancing itself from gambling. I think that is reasonable. Ray, that would be up to you as the present owner of the coin. Some of us would like to know of the ground that we stand upon.

Then You or LION Say with your Authority in a POST what you believe.
For we are all owners of zeitcoins.

But you should know their is No Authority,

Authority is the Consensus of the Community.

You Both state where did my Authority come from , it came from the fact that very few disagreed with the ideas.

It is the consensus that defines what is Authority.

So if what you say is agreed on by many it will be seen as Authority, if it is not you will be seen as a fool.    

 

 

[BainbridgeJ]

Let the organ grinder speak, not the monkey.

[kiklo]

Yes,

It is the responsibility of Ray, and Ray alone, to say what is to be & what is not.

The rest of us only have the choice of whether to support him, or not.

I have NO PROBLEM with that.

All I request is some clarity.

The Fact that you try to place all of the Weight on Ray is not good.

Why do you think the original dev left, the weight is too much for 1 man as time goes on the burden becomes too great and they leave, that is why the ZeitKnights are so important , a shared weight can be handled easily whereas a single man may be crushed under it.

State your own idea and be seen as an Authority or a Fool , or remain a follower ,
your Choice.  

 

[Mitras]

As a couple of times said. The Knights will made a decision.
And remember we speak about a pokergame and not selling teenage crack whores.

[Rent_a_Ray]

It's good to have a voice of dissent.
I didn't agree on many things Lion said in past, but 'hey'... that's pure democracy. 

I actually thought that we have completed that 'gambling' point?!
It's on the voting list.

For me the poker game is no fundamental principle for this coin (sorry) and it has nothing to do with our ground and our targets.
To prohibit or to control gambling is dictatorial.
In Germany we had such restrictions for many years. But not anymore.

You want me to make a decision in that point? No.

Did Lion answer my question about his mining in relation to the TZM principles? No.

Cheers,
Ray

[kiklo]

Let the organ grinder speak, not the monkey.

You were offered the chance to take over the whole counsel idea in the beginning and you ran away from that chance as fast as you could.

So if you want to start up your own version now, then go ahead.
No one is stopping you except for you.

But the ZeitKnights will happen either way.
And No backbiting by you or LION will stop it.


 

P.S.
It seems like you too are more into tearing apart the idea of the zeitknights than promoting it.
Maybe you should refocus that energy into creating something else instead of trying to destroy something.
Because your efforts at destroying the zeitknights will be wasted.   

[LionOfNarnia]

It's good to have a voice of dissent.
I didn't agree on many things Lion said in past, but 'hey'... that's pure democracy.  

I actually thought that we have completed that 'gambling' point?!
It's on the voting list.

For me the poker game is no fundamental principle for this coin (sorry) and it has nothing to do with our ground and our targets.
To prohibit or to control gambling is dictatorial.
In Germany we had such restrictions for many years. But not anymore.

You want me to make a decision in that point? No.

Did Lion answer my question about his mining in relation to the TZM principles? No.

Cheers,
Ray

1) When I asked about clarity, it wasn't about gambling, it was about 'what this coin means'. I guess I want you to stand up & be a leader.

(Every time I try to be succinct, I get mis-interpreted )

2) I didn't understand what your question (about mining) meant, and it seemed somewhat trivial in the light of everything else going on. If it's important to you please rephrase it in a way I can relate to & I'll give a full & true answer.

[Mitras]

What's so hard to understand? Zeitcoin was founded as a clean Coin. Mining was just possible for a short time.
Zeitcoin should grow about minting and not about wasting a lot of energy with mining. Graphiccards needs a lot of energy which could be used much more useful.

Leader??? I think you don't know anything about Zeitcoin.
Zeitcoin is a COMMUNITY coin.

[kiklo]

Zeitcoin is a COMMUNITY coin.

+1

 

[stevegreer]

What's so hard to understand? Zeitcoin was founded as a clean Coin. Mining was just possible for a short time.
Zeitcoin should grow about minting and not about wasting a lot of energy with mining. Graphiccards needs a lot of energy which could be used much more useful.

Leader??? I think you don't know anything about Zeitcoin.
Zeitcoin is a COMMUNITY coin.

So in your mind, just because Zeit is no longer in a POW phase that means that anyone who owns Zeit should not mine other coins? I fail to see the issue with him mining other coins that he trades off for Zeit. Not everyone has enough money left out of their paychecks to purchase a ton of coins every month, and not all of us are big enough bagholders to subsist on minting alone. Lion mines other coins that he trades off for Zeit. I hit up faucets to get Doge and PND which I use to trade off for Zeit. I do not see a problem here as we are still taking Zeit off of the exchanges, putting them in our wallets and keeping them out of the hands of the whales and serial dumpers.

[Mitras]

I don't have a problem with it at all. I do the same. But lion is always showing up the principles of Zeit.
But he just dammed " gambling" not wasting energy.
It doesn't matters what ideas we all had, he was against it. The principles of Zeit !!!
Don't damme one think and do just another

[Rent_a_Ray]

1) When I asked about clarity, it wasn't about gambling, it was about 'what this coin means'. I guess I want you to stand up & be a leader.

(Every time I try to be succinct, I get mis-interpreted )

2) I didn't understand what your question (about mining) meant, and it seemed somewhat trivial in the light of everything else going on. If it's important to you please rephrase it in a way I can relate to & I'll give a full & true answer.

1) I have no idea. I've tried to rescue Zeit. I am not any TZM guy - i like >>some<< of their ideas. I am not the leader of ZEIT, i'm the unwanted administrator.
That's the reason why we need the Knights.

2) Please read my posts carefully. My english is not good at all, but i am sure you will understand the question...

I want to give up ZEIT into good hands. The counsel seems to be a good option.

Cheers & good night
Ray

[LionOfNarnia]

The only two reasons I re-started mining were

a) To support Zeitcoin &

b) Because mining is the most efficient method I have access to for heating my whole cottage.

A 500w PC providing cheaper heat than even the 'Economy 7' radiators fitted - by a factor of about FIVE! - is a NO-BRAINER as far as my finances go.

AS A REMINDER I have been with this coin since day fucking one, I mined about 20 million during PoW & have steadily increased my holding to 150 million since.

I am not, & will not be, intimidated by any johnny-come-lately's with big mouths & bad attitudes. Better than you have come & gone already.

Ray - you can't let the foxes make up the rules for guarding the henhouse!

[stevegreer]

I don't have a problem with it at all. I do the same. But lion is always showing up the principles of Zeit.
But he just dammed " gambling" not wasting energy.
It doesn't matters what ideas we all had, he was against it. The principles of Zeit !!!
Don't damme one think and do just another

Ok, I understand what you are saying now. But in my opinion, if he is using that energy to mine coins that he can trade off for Zeit, is he truly wasting energy? And in reality, not having Zeit associated with gambling is a much more realistic goal than having the world embrace clean energy any time in the foreseeable future. And it's not really that people don't want to embrace it, moreso that the greedy elite won't let loose of dirty energy until they've fleeced the sheep for every cent they can.

[Mitras]

Ray - you can't let the foxes make up the rules for guarding the henhouse!


Which Foxes? I don't think that anyone here isn't fully behind the Zeitcoin.
I was one of the first too but I was always in the background, but we all have a voice and now I want to be heard.

[kiklo]

I am not, & will not be, intimidated by any johnny-come-lately's with big mouths & bad attitudes. Better than you have come & gone already.

Ray - you can't let the foxes make up the rules for guarding the henhouse!

Who are you intimidated by ?

And if you don't want the ZeitKnights,
No one is stopping you from creating the ZeitLions (where principles are more important than actions)  


 

P.S.
You & BainbridgeJ could be the 1st 2 members of the zeitlions.
Start your own zeitlion Postings and let the community know what you are trying to do instead of just being a bunch of NAY Sayers to everyone else.

2nd P.S
You have not even posted any info on the forum about the proxy regulations that you wanted so badly.
So it could be discussed.

[stevegreer]

Who are you intimidated by ?

And if you don't want the ZeitKnights,
No one is stopping you from creating the ZeitLions (where principles are more important than actions)  
 

Ok, I'm scratching my head on this one. Let me make sure I understand you here. Actually, please tell me that your vision for this coin is not action over principles. Or even worse, no principles at all. Because if that is the case, then this coin is doomed. It will end up as nothing more than a stepping stone for the whales to pump and dump us into oblivion. The original basis of this coin was one founded on Zeitgeist principles. I know, I was there in the beginning before our original dev abandoned us. Even though we have removed ourselves from any attempts to gain support from TZM does not mean we have to or want to abandon the principles on which the coin was founded. We CAN have both principles AND action. In fact, I dare say we NEED both in order to truly set us apart from the hundreds of other coins currently floundering on the markets.

[kiklo]

Who are you intimidated by ?

And if you don't want the ZeitKnights,
No one is stopping you from creating the ZeitLions (where principles are more important than actions)  
 

Ok, I'm scratching my head on this one. Let me make sure I understand you here. Actually, please tell me that your vision for this coin is not action over principles. Or even worse, no principles at all. Because if that is the case, then this coin is doomed. It will end up as nothing more than a stepping stone for the whales to pump and dump us into oblivion. The original basis of this coin was one founded on Zeitgeist principles. I know, I was there in the beginning before our original dev abandoned us. Even though we have removed ourselves from any attempts to gain support from TZM does not mean we have to or want to abandon the principles on which the coin was founded. We CAN have both principles AND action. In fact, I dare say we NEED both in order to truly set us apart from the hundreds of other coins currently floundering on the markets.

The statement was meant to reflect that LION Seems intent on talking about principles but never taking any action to make things better.
Which sadly is just like the TZM, the amount of money they blow on concerts would have easily help make zeitcoin up in the top 5 coins.

The ZeitKnight's End Game,
To make this World a Better Place for All who reside in it.
By making zeitcoin into a tool that can help someone next door or someone across the world.
When we get zeitcoin to $1 and still have a free faucet which we as knights still fund with our Zeit Interest , it will help people worldwide. And they can decide for themselves how best to use it to help themselves. Once the knight registrations in Feb 2015 are over they can start voting on all of the other stuff they want to say and how they want to say it.
Like I said some Knights may focus only on the area they desire, and no one is forced into anything.
And that is part of the problem with the current discussion , you are trying to control and define what the Knights can or can't do. That will be up to the group once they are fully formed.
You Know Majority Vote, remember that, if you don't like what they do start your own.
The More Groups the Merrier, but the nay saying needs to move on unless it is specific & constructive to the ideas.

 
 

FYI:

Let me make sure I understand you here. Actually, please tell me that your vision for this coin is not action over principles.

What I am saying is Principles without Actions is nothing.
Basically what was happening when I arrived in this Forum, except for Ray who had taken the weight of Zeitcoins on his Shoulders alone while others in here Bicker about actions but make none.
Actions need to be guided by principles to make Change in our world.
But what you need to realize is that the future knights have not even been added to the round table yet, and some of you want me or Ray to state what all of their principles are going to be, do you see how silly that is when none of us even know who the other knights will be. For example if their are 20 new knights and 15 of them vote for something me or Ray don't approve of, We don't have to help them achieve that goal, that is up to the 15 that voted for it. But any issue I do agree with them on , I will throw my full support behind. It will be that way for each ZeitKnight, (It is Called Freedom of Choice).
It is sad in this world that concept is so hard to get across when it should be apparent.
Just shows how much work has to be done to undue the damage that has been done to this world.
Some are looking for a Leader to hold accountable for everything, the thing is a ZeitKnight will Hold no one accountable but himself and look to himself to change the world for the better.

[Mitras]

Well said kiklo !!!