★ ZEIT ★ [COMMUNITY & KNIGHTS] [ULTRA LOW INFLATION] [MICRO-PAYMENTS]

[kiklo]

Nobody - certainly not me - is saying that what any individual chooses to do with their own coins is any business but their own.

What HAS been said, very clearly, is that there should be no 'official' promotion or support for gambling.

No Argument on that ,  Notice there was never any gambling or poker added to the goal list.

 

 

[BainbridgeJ]

I do not think it is an issue that can be voted on. It is not within the ethos/principles of the coin.

...but that in itself is an issue for discussion before the formation of the knights -

"What are our 'Terms of Reference'?"

I hope that you are not referring to Ray's alternative nag.

But on a more serious note, I know you are referring to the gambling issue. Whoever owns the coin decides its future. Possession is nine tenths of the law and the community does not possess the coin. Democracy isn't always the best policy (especially when it conflicts with an individual belief). However, important contributors like yourself should be heeded.

If people don't like what is happening, they can chose not to be involved. Those in 'possession' should take note. I have made my views known. If there is to be a Council, then fundamental principles must be established first. Anyone who has been in a business partnership will fully understand this.

I welcome kiklo's post which came in just as I was about to post mine.

[Rent_a_Ray]

I do not think it is an issue that can be voted on. It is not within the ethos/principles of the coin.

Please tell us more about your mining rigs, Lion. I'm sure your 'waste of energy' is not within the ethos/principles of Zeitgeist.
Who has been defined the ethos/principles of this coin in the past? The founder didn't define anything about gambling (see his lottery link on OP).
The Counsel will makes its decision. What are you afraid of?

[BainbridgeJ]

I do not think it is an issue that can be voted on. It is not within the ethos/principles of the coin.

Please tell us more about your mining rigs, Lion. I'm sure your 'waste of energy' is not within the ethos/principles of Zeitgeist.
Who has been defined the ethos/principles of this coin in the past? The founder didn't define anything about gambling (see his lottery link on OP).
The Counsel will makes its decision. What are you afraid of?

I don't what Lion is afraid of, or whether he is afraid at all. I'll tell you what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of a bunch of amatuers making decisions that could adversely affect the value my considerable holding. Sorry to be so blunt.

[kiklo]

Well kiklo, do we have the gambling issue as a proposition for a vote on your provisional 'to-do' list?

No Need, by not placing the creation of a Gambling site in the Goal List.
The Knights never officially recommended it so why would there be a need to officially deny it.

Plus in earlier post, this is not a Knights issue this a personal issue.
We are not going to be governing the community , we are there to ensure its success.
Whatever site an individual or a band of individuals start outsite of the knights is up to them.
The Zeit Community will decide if their sites are a success or not by using or not using their sites.
Freedom of Choice is Paramount to ZEIT, and that is one of the Things the Knights will ENSURE.

However if you feel the need when you become a knight in Feb 2015 to keep up a posting of values and things that the knights are against feel free. Looking forward to your thoughts on the many subjects that will come up.

 

[kiklo]

I don't what Lion is afraid of, or whether he is afraid at all. I'll tell you what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of a bunch of amatuers making decisions that could affect the value my considerable holding. Sorry to be so blunt.

Please list what decisions you are worried the ZeitKnights might make , and we can address them specifically to alleviate your concerns.

 

[Rent_a_Ray]

I don't what Lion is afraid of, or whether he is afraid at all. I'll tell you what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of a bunch of amatuers making decisions that could affect the value my considerable holding. Sorry to be so blunt.

Seems to me that you are not to be for the counsel with its 'bunch of amateurs'. Maybe you backed the wrong horse - maybe not. 

[BainbridgeJ]

I don't what Lion is afraid of, or whether he is afraid at all. I'll tell you what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of a bunch of amatuers making decisions that could adversely affect the value my considerable holding. Sorry to be so blunt.

Please list what decisions you are worried the ZeitKnights might make , and we can address them specifically to alleviate your concerns.

 

Since the decisions haven't been made yet, at least not publicly, I'm not worried about them. Maybe they have been made privately, since you actually refer to them as "decisions". kiklo, I like your energy, but you should proceed with caution.

[BainbridgeJ]

I don't what Lion is afraid of, or whether he is afraid at all. I'll tell you what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of a bunch of amatuers making decisions that could affect the value my considerable holding. Sorry to be so blunt.

Seems to me that you are not to be for the counsel with its 'bunch of amateurs'. Maybe you backed the wrong horse - maybe not.  

Kiklo privately offered me an unreserved position on the 'Counsel' weeks ago. I declined. Perhaps he can confirm that to you. I would urge you to tread with caution too.

[kiklo]

Since the decisions haven't been made yet, at least not publicly, I'm not worried about them. Maybe they have been made privately, since you actually refer to them as "decisions". kiklo, I like your energy, but you should proceed with caution.

No Worries, any ideas or questions are always welcome if you have a specific concern.
(Use the word decisions because of reference from your post so we be on the same thought process)
We are Summoning the ZeitKnights from the World of Imagination to be a Force for Good in the Physical World.

Here some of what is being planned.
1. Keep at least 1 million ZeitCoins in the Free Faucet every Month.

2. Wallets Updates

3. ZeitKnight Registration in 2015

4. Get an Enhanced Block Explorer.

5. Sword & Shield (ZeitKnights that volunteer will help stabilize our Marketcap in the short term)
    Until we get some sort of virtual to Real world economy active

I see no reason anyone would be afraid of any of those, but if so post your concerns.

 

[Rent_a_Ray]

Kiklo privately offered me an unreserved position on the 'Counsel' weeks ago. I declined. Perhaps he can confirm that to you. I would urge you to tread with caution too.

Thanks, i will keep my eyes open.

[kiklo]

I don't what Lion is afraid of, or whether he is afraid at all. I'll tell you what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of a bunch of amatuers making decisions that could affect the value my considerable holding. Sorry to be so blunt.

Seems to me that you are not to be for the counsel with its 'bunch of amateurs'. Maybe you backed the wrong horse - maybe not.  

I would urge you to tread with caution too.

No Offense BainbridgeJ, but Rent_a_Ray Support for Zeitcoin is Beyond Reproach.

Without Rent_a_Ray , Zeitcoin would have died , if you need details , I will Go into a LIST for you.

Question anyone else Here, Me included,
But Never Question Rent_a_Ray Loyalty to ZEIT as without him everything would have died Months Ago.
Time Energy and his own money without asking for help, he is the real deal , don't disrespect him when you can't show the same.
Rent_a_Ray is the Only True Professional in Zeitcoin.

 

[Mitras]

Wow hard stuff

I do not think it is an issue that can be voted on. It is not within the ethos/principles of the coin.

Please tell us more about your mining rigs, Lion. I'm sure your 'waste of energy' is not within the ethos/principles of Zeitgeist.
Who has been defined the ethos/principles of this coin in the past? The founder didn't define anything about gambling (see his lottery link on OP).
The Counsel will makes its decision. What are you afraid of?

I don't what Lion is afraid of, or whether he is afraid at all. I'll tell you what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of a bunch of amatuers making decisions that could adversely affect the value my considerable holding. Sorry to be so blunt.

If I understood that right you bainbridgej and lion think to sort the " Knights"
Is Zeit your coin? Hey we are all Zeit and everybody should have a voice.
And what Ray is saying about lions rig is absolutely right. You waste energy and what are you mining??? You have to change it into other coins so you " help " these coins which are probably used to by drugs or something else. Is that in your mind?
Don't spit in other faces look in the mirror first

[LionOfNarnia]

Then several VITAL questions emerge:-

By WHAT 'authority' does kiklo claim the right to make such an offer? Or make any 'decisions' at all, for that matter?

As Ray is the de facto 'owner' of the coin:-

Ray, did you authorise kiklo to have a free hand to carry on as he sees fit? Or have you just not found a reason to reign him back (yet)?

[kiklo]

Then several VITAL questions emerge:-

By WHAT 'authority' does kiklo claim the right to make such an offer? Or make any 'decisions' at all, for that matter?

With the Same Authority used to Offer it to You.  

Since the original idea was mine.

 

[Mitras]

In my opinion kiklo and Ray did something. But lion what have you done just being against everything. I don't know you very long but you are against everything we made.

[Mitras]

The biggest mistake was that you offered a lot of Zeit to everybody who let the wallet closed.
It was at the forum. That was so stu....
A coin which isn't tradet is going to hell

[Rent_a_Ray]

Then several VITAL questions emerge:-

By WHAT 'authority' does kiklo claim the right to make such an offer? Or make any 'decisions' at all, for that matter?

As Ray is the de facto 'owner' of the coin:-

Ray, did you authorise kiklo to have a free hand to carry on as he sees fit? Or have you just not found a reason to reign him back (yet)?

Have a look at the voting. I like his ideas and his energy. Seems to me that i am not alone with that opinion.
We have the chance to become the first (real) community-driven-non-scam coin. What's wrong with that?

Would you have me instead of the counsel? 

Zheers,
Zidel Zastro

[stevegreer]

This in-fighting is exactly the type of thing that we need to nip in the bud right away. The counsel isn't even formed as of yet, so I don't know how the word "decisions" can even be used right now. There should be "recommendations" at this point. Lion, Bainbridge and I have already expressed our desire to not have Zeit officially affiliated with any gambling sites. I think that has been addressed as it has been pointed out that there is nothing of the sort in the OP. What people do with their Zeit is their business. However, there should never be a point in time at all where Zeit as a community endorses gambling. My two cents.

I think the major concern is that we need to lay the groundwork for what the coin and community are going to stand for and what our principles and values are going to be before the counsel is formed. We had already started going in that direction long before talk of any counsel or Zeitknights even came about. Take a look at the Zeit forum for reference. What we need to be concerned with and address now is the very real possibility that the counsel will go the same route all of the major world governments have. And that is to say that, for instance, we have ten people on the counsel and someone wants to do something that he/she knows will not have full support and that goes against our values. That person could very well start a private campaign to gain majority support and end up taking the coin in a direction that we shouldn't go. I don't mean to sound paranoid, and I know that's unfortunately how many democracies work, but that is a real concern, and exactly why we need to lay the framework out now. We need to set up by-laws of some sort that states what we stand for, and stick to it.

Back in 1913, Woodrow Wilson sold out the American people to the global banking elite by passing the Federal Reserve Act, which fundamentally changed the U.S. dollar from a powerful, gold-backed money into a worthless, debt-backed piece of paper. Right now, crypto-currency is beyond the total control of the global elite. We have to do our part to ensure that it stays that way, and that Zeit ends up at the forefront of alt-coins where it belongs. It is up to us to ensure that Zeit remains beyond corruption and fair and equally distributive. That should be one of our main focuses.

[BainbridgeJ]

What is being missed here is that Lion has made a point about gambling that he regards as a fundamental principle. I had a feeling that the issue was being glossed over as if his opinion didn't matter. Whilst I haven't agreed with everything Lion has said in the past, I regard him as major contributor to Zeitcoin. Without him, Zeitcoin wouldn't have the same voice. He should be listened to.

All he is asking for is a definite statement on Zeitcoin distancing itself from gambling. I think that is reasonable. Ray, that would be up to you as the present owner of the coin. Some of us would like to know of the ground that we stand upon.

The issue can be resolved here and now.