★ ZEIT ★ [COMMUNITY & KNIGHTS] [ULTRA LOW INFLATION] [MICRO-PAYMENTS]

[atronite]

Hey, is there any way we could integrate a chat room into the wallet, maybe as part of an optional upgrade? Here's the code you can put into a website as a widget so that all you have to do is put in whatever username you like.

<iframe width="550" height="350" scrolling="no" src="http://widget.mibbit.com/?settings=f3e99721c5d2153e517f21c5fb790f4e&server=irc.Mibbit.Net&channel=%23Zeitcoin"></iframe>

It'd be cool to open the wallet, and then log into the Zeitcoin chat and connect with other wallet users if desired.

As you can see, you can click on the link and go to the IRC site. So if we put it right into the wallet, then it's basically a portal into the rest of the community. It'd be a reason to even keep the wallet open and minting while you chat away.

[Rent_a_Ray]

Hi guys,

i've recognized some serious fears from your side and will not keep my eyes closed in that point.

Let's play around with some possible scenarios / questions:

Q1) Is the counsel protected against a 51% invasion of a single stakeholder?
Answer: No, with an amount of 1 Billion he will have 10 Voices. We have no mechanism to verify it.

Q2) Is the counsel protected against a group of whales/amateurs (inside the counsel, of course) that want to manipulate the course and the value?
Answer: No, there is no way to control it (until now)

Q3) What can we do to solve Q1) Q2) ?

Q4) Is it necessary to launch a control committee besides? How can we trust them? Should we deal with it like jl777? (No action without the signature of 7 or 8 trusted people)

Q5) Is it needed to have a leader? What is his job? How can we trust him/her?

Let's go down to business.

Cheers and good morning,
Ray

PS: Yesterday while we were still kicking each other's heads, one guy was posting an interesting idea. Nobody takes notice.
Scroll back and the read the post of fxtronic.

[LionOfNarnia]

I don't have the time or the emotional energy to continue like this.

I can't even keep track of all the 'attacks' against me by kiklo & mitras, never mind respond sufficiently to them.

All I can say is that I refute every single one of them.

I will wait until the formation of the knights, and I will vote according to my conscience upon issues brought before us.

In the meantime, there are FAR more vital issues - personal, local & global - that are more efficient uses of my life-force.

'nuff said.

[BitcoinNational]

Zeitcoin is a COMMUNITY coin.

+1

 

There should be no personalities ... just sound ideas and just principles.
Block chain tech will allow cutting edge democratic administration.

[Rent_a_Ray]

Hey, is there any way we could integrate a chat room into the wallet, maybe as part of an optional upgrade? Here's the code you can put into a website as a widget so that all you have to do is put in whatever username you like.

<iframe width="550" height="350" scrolling="no" src="http://widget.mibbit.com/?settings=f3e99721c5d2153e517f21c5fb790f4e&server=irc.Mibbit.Net&channel=%23Zeitcoin"></iframe>

It'd be cool to open the wallet, and then log into the Zeitcoin chat and connect with other wallet users if desired.

As you can see, you can click on the link and go to the IRC site. So if we put it right into the wallet, then it's basically a portal into the rest of the community. It'd be a reason to even keep the wallet open and minting while you chat away.

That's no problem. We could place some kind of chat button in the qtGUI.
We should put this idea on our to-do list.

Ray

[Rent_a_Ray]

Explorer News

ZEIT Richlist: http://www.multifaucet.tk/index.php?blockexplorer=ZEIT&top_addresses=100

Search by address: http://www.multifaucet.tk/index.php?blockexplorer=ZEIT

[stevegreer]

What I am saying is Principles without Actions is nothing.
Basically what was happening when I arrived in this Forum, except for Ray who had taken the weight of Zeitcoins on his Shoulders alone while others in here Bicker about actions but make none.
Actions need to be guided by principles to make Change in our world.

I agree with this statement. Actions do need to be guided by principles. And this is why I suggested in a post yesterday, which got completely ignored, that we need to lay in advance the framework for what our principles are going to be.

But what you need to realize is that the future knights have not even been added to the round table yet, and some of you want me or Ray to state what all of their principles are going to be, do you see how silly that is when none of us even know who the other knights will be.

No one is asking you or Ray to state what all of the Zeitknight's principles will be. As stated above, what we want is to have laid out what the CORE of our principles will be. That can and should be laid out before the counsel is put into motion to avoid having this coin fall into disarray by having new member come in who do not support our core principles. The core principles need to be spelled out, and all members and future members of the counsel must by willing to stand by those core principles. In fact, that should be one of the requirements for being on the counsel. Otherwise, Zeit will become corrupted, there will be tons of in-fighting among the counsel members, and Zeit will fall into ruin.

It is sad in this world that concept is so hard to get across when it should be apparent.

The only thing sad about it is that you feel the concept is lost on some of us. It's not. It just seems to me, as an outsider looking in, that there are some who seem to feel they should have a bigger voice in the direction the coin is going than others. Now, this is the perception, and hopefully that's all it is and that perception can be changed sooner rather than later. But it seems as though some people say, "We're gonna do this and that and that's how it's gonna be." Were as there are others among us, as Ray pointed out in his recent post, that have made suggestions that have been totally ignored. He mentioned a post by fxtronic that got ignored. Atronite just made a post that, as of my typing this, was totally ignored. The post I made yesterday about laying out our principles in writing ahead of time and creating by-laws was totally ignored. I'm sure there are others.
My point is, if this is going to be a "democracy" then everyone should have an equal voice without fear of being ignored, or worse, bashed, for stating their position on certain things. I understand it will be a majority rules when all is said and done. But all opinions should be given their due regard.

*EDIT* I see that Ray has in fact responded to atronite's post. Thanks Ray!

[Varvarin]

Hey Hey ZeitKnights ..

Dude where is my horse?!? 


Went away for a week and I see someone bounced Zeit to 85+ litoshi and down to 30 .. erm .. thanks for the fish? Had a lot of buys 30-40 filled. Ta 

[Rent_a_Ray]

Let's build this Z-CORE together.
I think kiklo's slogan collection might be a good base.

One important point for me (Ray): Helping the helpless. (it is also the core of Chivalry)
It's very easy to help. (not only with ZEIT or FIAT)

Z-CORE (simplified)
-----------------------------------------
* helping the helpless
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
-----------------------------------------

Let's go on... First we should collect ideas.
(Please beware things like 'water for Africa' - it's the same like 'helping the helpless')
If we add Technology to the CORE - same here: Farming robots = Technology

Is this procedure acceptable for you?

Cheers,
Ray

[Rent_a_Ray]

Hey Hey ZeitKnights ..

Dude where is my horse?!? 

I have no idea where your horse is,
but my horse is amazing:

http://www.lookatmyhorsemyhorseisamazing.com/

Cheers,
Ray

[Varvarin]

Hey Hey ZeitKnights ..

Dude where is my horse?!? 

I have no idea where your horse is,
but my horse is amazing:

http://www.lookatmyhorsemyhorseisamazing.com/

Cheers,
Ray

Ahhh has been a while since I saw this wicked wicked song. Official Zeit Anthem? 

Am I missing something with the "funded" rich address list? Been away for a 2 weekends .. My wallet isn't on the list oddly enough with 273mil (added 25mil this week, woop woop)

[brian_nguyen]

Hey Hey ZeitKnights ..

Dude where is my horse?!? 

I have no idea where your horse is,
but my horse is amazing:

http://www.lookatmyhorsemyhorseisamazing.com/

Cheers,
Ray

Ahhh has been a while since I saw this wicked wicked song. Official Zeit Anthem? 

Am I missing something with the "funded" rich address list? Been away for a 2 weekends .. My wallet isn't on the list oddly enough with 273mil (added 25mil this week, woop woop)

Explorer News

ZEIT Richlist: http://www.multifaucet.tk/index.php?blockexplorer=ZEIT&top_addresses=100

Search by address: http://www.multifaucet.tk/index.php?blockexplorer=ZEIT

I'm in the same boat. We will need to move the coins back to the main wallet address because they staked and got moved to other addresses, but then we will loose the age of the coins. This will be a problem to prove the 100M for the knights.

[LionOfNarnia]

Let's build this Z-CORE together.
I think kiklo's slogan collection might be a good base.

One important point for me (Ray): Helping the helpless. (it is also the core of Chivalry)
It's very easy to help. (not only with ZEIT or FIAT)

Z-CORE (simplified)
-----------------------------------------
* helping the helpless
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
-----------------------------------------

Let's go on... First we should collect ideas.
(Please beware things like 'water for Africa' - it's the same like 'helping the helpless')
If we add Technology to the CORE - same here: Farming robots = Technology

Is this procedure acceptable for you?

Cheers,
Ray

A Voice for the Voiceless
Protection for the Defenceless

[Rent_a_Ray]

Let's build this Z-CORE together.
I think kiklo's slogan collection might be a good base.

One important point for me (Ray): Helping the helpless. (it is also the core of Chivalry)
It's very easy to help. (not only with ZEIT or FIAT)


---------------------------------------------
* Helping the Helpless
* A Voice for the Voiceless
* Protection for the Defenceless
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
---------------------------------------------

Let's go on... First we should collect ideas.
(Please beware things like 'water for Africa' - it's the same like 'helping the helpless')
If we add Technology to the CORE - same here: Farming robots = Technology

Is this procedure acceptable for you?

Cheers,
Ray

[LionOfNarnia]

TED Talks ‏@TEDTalks  27 minutes ago

"A leader isn't good because they're right; they're good because they're willing to learn and to trust."

http://trib.al/lEAWMLu

[atronite]

Let's build this Z-CORE together.
I think kiklo's slogan collection might be a good base.

One important point for me (Ray): Helping the helpless. (it is also the core of Chivalry)
It's very easy to help. (not only with ZEIT or FIAT)


---------------------------------------------
* Helping the Helpless
* A Voice for the Voiceless
* Protection for the Defenceless
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
* (PLACEHOLDER)
---------------------------------------------

Let's go on... First we should collect ideas.
(Please beware things like 'water for Africa' - it's the same like 'helping the helpless')
If we add Technology to the CORE - same here: Farming robots = Technology

Is this procedure acceptable for you?

Cheers,
Ray

And how would we transform Zeit into a tool that would actually achieve these things? Would it not be easier to use bitcoin or even fiat currency to do these things?

Everything you propose takes money, which is really the power to persuade one human being to part with his valuable resource (whether that be tangible, labor, experience, consultation, etc) for this medium of exchange so that they can USE that medium of exchange to acquire something else they desire (diamonds, food, gold, water, healthcare, internet, prostitutes, etc).

Right now, no one accepts Zeitcoins so how do you want to change that situation?

Anyways, as long as we're on the topic of slogans, here's one that should appeal to you all:

"Building a sustainable, resource-based world community using the technology of knowledge of today."

If you want it shorter, then maybe "Building a sustainable and self-sufficient community" will do.

[atronite]

To those who are still interested in the "gambling" discussion, I invite you to read this link and make your own conclusions:

https://stockbet.com/#/support/gambling

The crux of the matter: most people are gamblers whether they know it or not. The only difference between gambling and investment is that one is designated as legal, and the other is not (or is highly restricted in order to block competition).

[kiklo]

Hi guys,

i've recognized some serious fears from your side and will not keep my eyes closed in that point.

Let's play around with some possible scenarios / questions:

Q1) Is the counsel protected against a 51% invasion of a single stakeholder?
Answer: No, with an amount of 1 Billion he will have 10 Voices. We have no mechanism to verify it.

Q2) Is the counsel protected against a group of whales/amateurs (inside the counsel, of course) that want to manipulate the course and the value?
Answer: No, there is no way to control it (until now)

Q3) What can we do to solve Q1) Q2) ?

Q4) Is it necessary to launch a control committee besides? How can we trust them? Should we deal with it like jl777? (No action without the signature of 7 or 8 trusted people)

Q5) Is it needed to have a leader? What is his job? How can we trust him/her?

Let's go down to business.

Cheers and good morning,
Ray

I would like to know your thoughts & comments on a possible solution to the above questions.

It seems like problems stems from how a Democracy works, basically the majority vote means that the majority can vote to direct resources to goals any way they see fit, and that is a major concern in any group that a corrupt majority will have corrupt goals and co-opt an individual resources against their will or choice , and this causes resentment in the group.

So now one for the History book, we need a new system that brings people together to complete worthwhile goals , but also makes sure that individual rights & opinions are not ignored or individual resources taken against one's will.

What do you Think of a Zeitocracy ,
which is a group where any can call for a vote for a goal, and once the vote is taken, anyone who votes against that one item does not have to participate in that goal.
Anything that requires Labor , Time , or Financial Resources is always Voluntary.
This will preserve the rights of the individual while also Nullifying the Dangers posed by any Whales that would try to usurp control of the ZeitKnights. Even if the Whales won every vote , if the ones that voted no, just decline to add their resources to the goal, it weakens the Whales chance for success.
This type of system , will make sure that only the Most Agreed upon Goals has the Full Support of all the Knights.

On Votes that don't require Labor , Time , or Financial Resources like the Slogan, that would be simple Majority Vote (Most Votes Wins) .

The Subgroups for example May be setup in any way seen fit by that subgroup,
For Examples: (Only List 2 , sure there will be many more)
ZeitKnights-Charity
(Which would include the Free Faucet and more in the future)

ZeitKnights-Sword & Shield
(Provide Stability to the Zeitcoin Market Price)

Inside the Subgroups , they can chose the Zeitocracy or a Democracy, or even a Leadership based , if they so chose. Since they have the right to join or quit a subgroup. But anything that requires Labor , Time , or Financial Resources is always Voluntary even under subgroups.

On the WebSite at a later time, the Knights Names can be posted under whichever subgroup they join.
To show which Knights support which causes and give them recognition for their work to benefit zeitcoin & the world.

Well what do you think, ideas to improve or reasons it will fail
All Opinions & Suggestions Welcome.

 

[BainbridgeJ]

To those who are still interested in the "gambling" discussion, I invite you to read this link and make your own conclusions:

https://stockbet.com/#/support/gambling

The crux of the matter: most people are gamblers whether they know it or not. The only difference between gambling and investment is that one is designated as legal, and the other is not (or is highly restricted in order to block competition).

Nobody is suggesting that gambling should be banned, or regulated into non-existence in the outside world. The position that has been put forward here so far has been based on strongly-held personal beliefs and that it would conflict with the fundamental ideals upon which Zeitcoin was created. Some feel strongly that gambling should not be endorsed by Zeitcoin.

To give a response to your post in Pounds, Shillings and Pence terms: Ethics (principles) are a very important factor in marketing a business, or any venture in which you are asking people to subscribe to. Ask any large successful company. They spend £millions on being perceived to be acting 'ethically'. In the last episode of the Apprentice, which might still be available on the BBC's i-Player, Lord Sugar gave one of the Apprentices a barracking for being unethical. He said he would not employ anyone who acted unethically.

Being seen to be acting ethically is a powerful marketing tool. It engenders trust in the product, or idea that you are wanting people to buy into. That is the crux of the matter. To use your slogan as an example, some might think that there is a conflict between "Building a sustainable and self-sufficient community" and endorsing gambling on the Zeitcoin websites. Gambling isn't a sustainable activity, unless you are the House with the odds stacked in your favour.

For me that conflict would create distrust and suspicion. Is that something that you would wish to communicate to potential adopters of Zeitcoin?

Ray has already spoken out on the issue, so there is little point in continuing the debate here and now. He is the one who ultimately decides. Zeitcoin is his coin.

[atronite]

Nobody is suggesting that gambling should be banned, or regulated into non-existence in the outside world. The position that has been put forward here so far has been based on strongly-held personal beliefs and that it would conflict with the fundamental ideals upon which Zeitcoin was created. Some feel strongly that gambling should not be endorsed by Zeitcoin.

To give a response to your post in Pounds, Shillings and Pence terms: Ethics (principles) are a very important factor in marketing a business, or any venture in which you are asking people to subscribe to. Ask any large successful company. They spend £millions on being perceived to be acting 'ethically'. In the last episode of the Apprentice, which might still be available on the BBC's i-Player, Lord Sugar gave one of the Apprentices a barracking for being unethical. He said he would not employ anyone who acted unethically.

Being seen to be acting ethically is a powerful marketing tool. It engenders trust in the product, or idea that you are wanting people to buy into. That is the crux of the matter. To use your slogan as an example, some might think that there is a conflict between "Building a sustainable and self-sufficient community" and endorsing gambling on the Zeitcoin websites. Gambling isn't a sustainable activity, unless you are the House with the odds stacked in your favour.

For me that conflict would create distrust and suspicion. Is that something that you would wish to communicate to potential adopters of Zeitcoin?

Ray has already spoken out on the issue, so there is little point in continuing the debate here and now. He is the one who ultimately decides. Zeitcoin is his coin.

You do have some good points. It's always been my thought that the only real people you can really market this coin to without bringing in people who may bring in "polluting" ideas are the people in the TZM and other libertarian minded and anti central-banks types of people. That is this coin's original intended audience after all. It is from people who identify with TZM, or at least like the videos, that this coin will appeal to, at least if it is to ever have a future at all. Guess I should have realized that the same people who hate wall street are generally not going to enjoy texas holdem poker for what it is supposed to be, entertainment. =/

Still, I have yet to see any ideas that will actually boost the coin's intrinsic value and put an upward push on the coin's value. Also, I did a test deposit and test withdraw from cryptsy, and so far i haven't gotten my zeit back. Says it is "pending".