[BCN] Bytecoin. Secure, private, untraceable since 2012

[kazuki49]

There's the other side, the tech side:

1) Even though I like Dashcoin as an experiment, I highly doubt it to be a valid long-term investment. Something that is cloned cannot lead the market. Let's say, there's no more Bytecoin, which would make Dashcoin hault and degrade.

2) Monero is fun, it has a nice community. However, I haven't seen any achievements that could indicate that its technology is going anywhere. Please, do not start bombarding me here with each and every random feature you know was implemented. What's more, intended plans is not what I'm talking about.

3) Bytecoin is the Innovator. Invented/implemented CryptoNote technology, released awesome GUI, highload wallet for businesses (just to name a few significant achievements). Bytecoin possesses this technology and the expertise to move it further, whether you like it or not.

That's why my investment is Bytecoin.

And once again, the world doesn't start and end with bitcointalk. What you are saying is that you were able to discover Bytecoin when the info was first posted on this forum.

Bitcoin is not the best coin out there, but it's the first. Don't underestimate first-mover advantage. Having an established community and large market cap are 80% of a coin's success. Some say monero's technology is slightly better than DarkCoin -- I don't agree, but even if it were true, monero may have arrived at the party too late. Having a slightly better coin doesn't matter if nobody uses it.

There is no such thing as the only party in the block, Monero created its own party.

CN > degraded CN > BTC

I rather use Bytecoin or other cryptonote than DarkCon.

[jwinterm]

What can be inferred from this:

VOLUME(24h) / MARKETCAP
LTC:  0.0407
XPM:  0.0384
BLK:  0.0371
DOGE: 0.0190
PPC:  0.0109
XMR:  0.0059
DASH: 0.0058
NXT:  0.0045
BCN:  0.0007

Interesting how the anon coins are generally lower ratio, and not surprising that BCN is another order of magnitude lower. Is this including scam exchange hitbtc?

[Rias]

There's also

BanxShares - 0.00051
MaidSafeCoin - 0.00060

Comparison is a ditch.

[illodin]

Is this including scam exchange hitbtc?

Yes.

[illodin]

There's also

BanxShares - 0.00051
MaidSafeCoin - 0.00060

Comparison is a ditch.

That is interesting, I picked randomly some top coins I recognized, never heard of BanxShares and was surprised it was in TOP-10. Any idea of the distribution of BanxShares and MaidSafeCoin?

[Wanderlust]

when was that cryptonote TOR site set-up?

my research points to it appearing out of nowhere in early 2014. It may have taken since 2011 to develop but BCN was not launched in 2012.

I really wanted to believe this is running since 2012 but my efforts have been frustrated by lack of evidence and transparency.

Hold on…

1) Are u saying there is just as much confusion about the birth date of CrytpoNote as there is confusion about the birth date of BCN? Does anybody here KNOW when CN was launched/developed?

2) Does anybody dispute that the CN devs and BCN devs are part of the same circle/maybe the same people?

3) Was there any US legislation post-2012 that would have made development of this crypto "risky"?

thanks

@illodin- what's ur point?

[Rias]

And yet we are back on the same page. Uhm.

1) Are u saying there is just as much confusion about the birth date of CrytpoNote as there is confusion about the birth date of BCN? Does anybody here KNOW when CN was launched/developed?

2) Does anybody dispute that the CN devs and BCN devs are part of the same circle/maybe the same people?

The story of CryptoNote goes as follows. In late 2011 somebody (supposedly Nicolas van Saberhagen) invented the protocol. It was refined and developed in the first half of 2012. CryptoNote team has mentioned on a number of occasions that Bytecoin developers helped them implement the protocol in code and launch the coin. 

At some point in time the teams split up. CryptoNote is more about research and general technology promotion, while Bytecoin is currently the main developer of all software features in CryptoNote coins.

However, my bet is that either nobody here knows if that's the case or for some reason would not say it. I don't like premine accusations as they sound completely nonsense to me, so in my opinion it's a matter of information asymmetry (might be quite significant asymmetry).

3) Was there any US legislation post-2012 that would have made development of this crypto "risky"?

Why necessarily US?

[kazuki49]

The story of CryptoNote goes as follows. In late 2011 somebody (supposedly Nicolas van Saberhagen) invented the protocol. It was refined and developed in the first half of 2012. CryptoNote team has mentioned on a number of occasions that Bytecoin developers helped them implement the protocol in code and launch the coin.  

At some point in time the teams split up. CryptoNote is more about research and general technology promotion, while Bytecoin is currently the main developer of all software features in CryptoNote coins.

Yep. Thats the history they told us: https://web.archive.org/web/20141204145921/http://bitcoinbarbie.com/cryptonote-open-source-technology-concept/

As we’ve mentioned before, CryptoNote team was not interested in building a currency. That is when Bytecoin developers took the lead. They are the team of top notch p2p and cryptocurrency developers, which have been contributing to the sphere for quite some time. They finalized our cryptographic and currency prototypes and coded a beautiful solution to represent CryptoNote.
By the way, Bytecoin was not the very first realization of CryptoNote, as there was a so-called “BetaNote”, which was used for a couple of months before the launch of Bytecoin to test whether the currency works as designed. This test coin was presented to a large number of influential people in educational, scientific, and gaming industries, who eventually became the first miners of Bytecoin. I believe this “circle of a few” affected the way the currency developed during the next year and why the information was slow to spread. It is not in the nature or business of these participants to post on the Web, so all the mining teams grew in number through word-of-mouth only.
Anyway, when the coin was launched, CryptoNote team gradually departed from Bytecoin team to finalize the white paper (which eventually became available in December 2012) and returned back to other projects. After nearly a year, the team gathered back to review the white paper, catch up with Bytecoin news and decide on our strategy.
It turned out that even though Bytecoin had grown and was indeed working as a currency (accepted at certain deep and dark web projects, circulating as a main local currency in one very large international research center, traded on small OTC exchanges), it lacked mass adoption. Ironically, the coin was simply under conventional business radars, while Bytecoin devs were wholly obsessed by the technology they were working on and didn’t pay much attention to spreading the word about it. That is when CryptoNote team decided to let the world know about the technology and promote new CryptoNote currencies, while ensuring that Bytecoin team (main contributing developers for CryptoNote) is still devoted to technology development.

That was before the suppose java-based Cryptonote history of now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CryptoNote#Bytecoin_.28BCN.29

Bytecoin is the first implementation of CryptoNote protocol. It should not be confused with another Bytecoin (BTE), a now defunct absolute copy of Bitcoin. Since launch in July 2012, a number of improvements have been introduced into Bytecoin, including multisignature transactions[29] and several security updates. In 2013 original CryptoNote protocol implementation on Java has been rewritten from scratch using C++.

So what it is, "BetaNote" or Java 

[Rias]

How do a testnet coin name and the language it's written in contradict each other?

[kazuki49]

How do a testnet coin name and the language it's written in contradict each other?

The way its written, their own words, it sounds like the original Cryptonote guys needed help of an unrelated team to implement BetaNote in 2012(?), that would eventually become Bytecoin and we all know its based on C not Java, but if the "original CryptoNote protocol implementation" was written in 2013 using Java this means BCN from 2012 is not an original implementation but one would think so as how they said to having worked with the Bytecoin team to create it, so what the heck it is, there is so much conflicting information.

I'm still researching and learning about this, correct me if I'm wrong, thanks to Wanderlust for reviving my interest in Cryptonote/Bytecoin origins.

[Rias]

I think that you misinterpret this line:

In 2013 original CryptoNote protocol implementation on Java has been rewritten from scratch using C++.

For me it clearly states that it was rewritten in 2013 from Java to C++. So before that it was written in Java (presumably since 2012). It's not clear though what Betanote itself is.

[Wanderlust]

And yet we are back on the same page. Uhm.

1) Are u saying there is just as much confusion about the birth date of CrytpoNote as there is confusion about the birth date of BCN? Does anybody here KNOW when CN was launched/developed?

2) Does anybody dispute that the CN devs and BCN devs are part of the same circle/maybe the same people?

The story of CryptoNote goes as follows. In late 2011 somebody (supposedly Nicolas van Saberhagen) invented the protocol. It was refined and developed in the first half of 2012. CryptoNote team has mentioned on a number of occasions that Bytecoin developers helped them implement the protocol in code and launch the coin.  

At some point in time the teams split up. CryptoNote is more about research and general technology promotion, while Bytecoin is currently the main developer of all software features in CryptoNote coins.

However, my bet is that either nobody here knows if that's the case or for some reason would not say it. I don't like premine accusations as they sound completely nonsense to me, so in my opinion it's a matter of information asymmetry (might be quite significant asymmetry).

3) Was there any US legislation post-2012 that would have made development of this crypto "risky"?

Why necessarily US?

I'll take that as a yes - there IS just as much confusion. Both stories are legend and unverifiable (at the moment at least). FASCINATING. CN's birth is AS mysterious as BCN's. In a way this bodes well…

Not necessarily the US, but u get the idea… might there have been a reason to fudge dates (besides the obv) assuming they were fudged at all?

[Wanderlust]

And once again, the world doesn't start and end with bitcointalk. What you are saying is that you were able to discover Bytecoin when the info was first posted on this forum.

Agreed that BCT is not the center of the universe. So can you show me an archive.org link that mentions bcn/cryptonote anywhere on the web prior to 2014?

It's the simplest thing.

I'll lower the bar. Will anybody raise a hand to say they knew of BCN pre-2014?

This guy respond to your question, try to talk to him.

I was mining BCN late 2012 - in fact I recently found this thread and luckily got my wallet open. It's all working like a dream, thank you very much.

Anyway - he came on here and called me a liar with the same crap about Bytecoin being a few months old etc, etc.

Just ignore him. He is a bitter and twisted individual with too much emotional investment in a scam clonecoin.  
Like I said - after being called a liar I checked out other threads here and the Monero he supports is a scamcoin, the followers are irritaing FUDsters and scammers and they are pretty much pariahs in the crypto world!  

thanks for the link. quite a character. account created on 9/11 2013 and last post on April Fool's 2014. 44 posts in total (any Chinese here?) Whoever HE is he's got style.

[oniromancia]

when was that cryptonote TOR site set-up?

my research points to it appearing out of nowhere in early 2014. It may have taken since 2011 to develop but BCN was not launched in 2012.

I really wanted to believe this is running since 2012 but my efforts have been frustrated by lack of evidence and transparency.

Hold on…

1) Are u saying there is just as much confusion about the birth date of CrytpoNote as there is confusion about the birth date of BCN? Does anybody here KNOW when CN was launched/developed?

2) Does anybody dispute that the CN devs and BCN devs are part of the same circle/maybe the same people?

3) Was there any US legislation post-2012 that would have made development of this crypto "risky"?

thanks

@illodin- what's ur point?

CryptoNote whitepaper was out on october 17, 2013, and the first commit to the Github repo was on november 15, 2013. Had the BCN network started in november nobody would be questioning it. By means of a comparison: nakamoto released the btc whitepaper in november 2008, and the network started in january 2009 with the first client, a not-too-disimilar timeframe. Would it stand to reason, by all accounts, that the individuals behind the cryptoNote whitepaper either wrote the initial code and gave it to the bytecoin developer(s) who then ran with this, falsified a blockchain (trivial), and released it publicly in march after blockchain falsification was complete. Just lol.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

CryptoNote whitepaper was out on october 17, 2013, and the first commit to the Github repo was on november 15, 2013. Had the BCN network started in november nobody would be questioning it. By means of a comparison: nakamoto released the btc whitepaper in november 2008, and the network started in january 2009 with the first client, a not-too-disimilar timeframe. Would it stand to reason, by all accounts, that the individuals behind the cryptoNote whitepaper either wrote the initial code and gave it to the bytecoin developer(s) who then ran with this, falsified a blockchain (trivial), and released it publicly in march after blockchain falsification was complete. Just lol.

No no no. That makes way too much sense.

Here's what I think happened: a bunch of world-class cryptographers got together and created a digital currency in 2012 with groundbreaking, never-before-seen privacy technology, using funding they collectively saved in a penny jar. And who needs a whitepaper, right? Instead, they elevator-pitched many technically savvy (yet unaffiliated) individuals to mine the coin but not so much as mention its existence anywhere (you know, because miners love worthless coins that nobody knows about). And finally, over a year later, they eventually got around to writing a whitepaper that magically references the future.

[Wanderlust]

CryptoNote whitepaper was out on october 17, 2013, and the first commit to the Github repo was on november 15, 2013. Had the BCN network started in november nobody would be questioning it. By means of a comparison: nakamoto released the btc whitepaper in november 2008, and the network started in january 2009 with the first client, a not-too-disimilar timeframe. Would it stand to reason, by all accounts, that the individuals behind the cryptoNote whitepaper either wrote the initial code and gave it to the bytecoin developer(s) who then ran with this, falsified a blockchain (trivial), and released it publicly in march after blockchain falsification was complete. Just lol.

No no no. That makes way too much sense.

Here's what I think happened: a bunch of world-class cryptographers got together and created a digital currency in 2012 with groundbreaking, never-before-seen privacy technology, using funding they collectively saved in a penny jar. And who needs a whitepaper, right? Instead, they elevator-pitched many technically savvy (yet unaffiliated) individuals to mine the coin but not so much as mention its existence anywhere (you know, because miners love worthless coins that nobody knows about). And finally, over a year later, they eventually got around to writing a whitepaper that magically references the future.

Hail! - For here come the holier-than-thou brigade, the bigoted, self-entitled would-be crypto-guardians of BCT! Gaze as the Sword of Damocles hovers over their heads, inexorably descending so smoothly upon their hapless incumbency even as I speak!

oh - by-the-by - curious how the cn team dont cry afoul. it is also curious how the cn whitepaper release date is as controversial as the release of BCN. I dont believe the Monerian view of the world adequately captures the subtleties of this crypto-currency.

BTW - Do the CN Team (on their official site) not state a whitepaper date? What do they say?

[jwinterm]

CryptoNote whitepaper was out on october 17, 2013, and the first commit to the Github repo was on november 15, 2013. Had the BCN network started in november nobody would be questioning it. By means of a comparison: nakamoto released the btc whitepaper in november 2008, and the network started in january 2009 with the first client, a not-too-disimilar timeframe. Would it stand to reason, by all accounts, that the individuals behind the cryptoNote whitepaper either wrote the initial code and gave it to the bytecoin developer(s) who then ran with this, falsified a blockchain (trivial), and released it publicly in march after blockchain falsification was complete. Just lol.

No no no. That makes way too much sense.

Here's what I think happened: a bunch of world-class cryptographers got together and created a digital currency in 2012 with groundbreaking, never-before-seen privacy technology, using funding they collectively saved in a penny jar. And who needs a whitepaper, right? Instead, they elevator-pitched many technically savvy (yet unaffiliated) individuals to mine the coin but not so much as mention its existence anywhere (you know, because miners love worthless coins that nobody knows about). And finally, over a year later, they eventually got around to writing a whitepaper that magically references the future.

Hail! - For here come the holier-than-thou brigade, the bigoted, self-entitled would-be crypto-guardians of BCT! Gaze as the Sword of Damocles hovers over their heads, inexorably descending so smoothly upon their hapless incumbency even as I speak!

oh - by-the-by - curious how the cn team dont cry afoul. it is also curious how the cn whitepaper release date is as controversial as the release of BCN. I dont believe the Monerian view of the world adequately captures the subtleties of this crypto-currency.

BTW - Do the CN Team (on their official site) not state a whitepaper date? What do they say?

Well, it seems like they agree that BCN was launched on 4 July 2012:
https://cryptonote.org/news/2014/7/4/july-4th-birthday-of-bytecoin-bcn

And the original white paper is "dated" 12 Dec 2012:
https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper_v1.pdf

[GuessWho?]

Im new to this coin but I like it already. I am mining the coin like crazy. 

I will look into hosting a Bytecoin faucet in the near future.

[BSdetector]

Its ok really, you have just awoken from a long sleep.

Everything here is just how it seems.

[Wanderlust]

…

Well, it seems like they agree that BCN was launched on 4 July 2012:
https://cryptonote.org/news/2014/7/4/july-4th-birthday-of-bytecoin-bcn
…

this seems like a pretty conclusive confirmation. wow! and thanks. surely it's not that easy!