Ukraine rejects Russia Gazprom gas price hike

[Nemo1024]

None of that recent stuff (past few months) explains how Yanukovych's dentist son became a billionaire. I suppose the US bribed his family for years?

No, that's "just" corruption. Both Yanukovich and the West's darling Timoshenko were feeding from the same fizzy gassy sources. Make no mistake Yanukovich was a corrupt leader, who was trying to milk two cows (there's a saying for that: "a kind calf suckles two cows"). Russians are not particularly happy having Yanikovich sitting there, looking all smug.

(For the record, Russia was not against EU-Ukraine-Russia trade cooperation, but EU dug their heels in demanding Ukraine either chooses EU way or the highway.)

[bryant.coleman]

No, that's "just" corruption. Both Yanukovich and the West's darling Timoshenko were feeding from the same fizzy gassy sources. Make no mistake Yanukovich was a corrupt leader, who was trying to milk two cows (there's a saying for that: "a kind calf suckles two cows"). Russians are not particularly happy having Yanikovich sitting there, looking all smug.

That's why I believe that the US made a mistake by removing Yanukovych. He would have made Ukraine a EU member nation in the near future. The Americans were impatient, and now they lost half of Ukraine.

[Nemo1024]

No, that's "just" corruption. Both Yanukovich and the West's darling Timoshenko were feeding from the same fizzy gassy sources. Make no mistake Yanukovich was a corrupt leader, who was trying to milk two cows (there's a saying for that: "a kind calf suckles two cows"). Russians are not particularly happy having Yanikovich sitting there, looking all smug.

That's why I believe that the US made a mistake by removing Yanukovych. He would have made Ukraine a EU member nation in the near future. The Americans were impatient, and now they lost half of Ukraine.

Well, Americans followed the American model of business communications, while in this case a German approach would have been better.
http://www.businessinsider.com/communication-charts-around-the-world-2014-3

[darthcoin]

They can either agree or refuse buying gas, I don't think russia will be changing it's opinion about that anytime soon.

[Bitcoin Fiction]

They can either agree or refuse buying gas, I don't think russia will be changing it's opinion about that anytime soon.

They can't refuse - there is no cheap alternative to Russian gas.

[AtomTom]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-26902522

Ukraine has rejected moves by Russia to almost double the price of Russian gas supplies to the country and threatened legal action. Ukraine's interim PM, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, said Moscow's hikes were a form of "economic aggression".

I don't know what the Ukraine PM was expecting after he threatened to nuke all the ethnic Russians living in Ukraine. 

[bryant.coleman]

They can't refuse - there is no cheap alternative to Russian gas.

They are not refusing the gas supplies from Russia. They are just refusing to pay up for those gas supplies. Both are different. So there won't be any problem until Russia stops the gas supplies.

[Nemo1024]

On a related note. Russia decided not to impose sanctions on Europe, but the reality of the economic state cannot be denied:
http://rt.com/business/putin-ukraine-gas-europe-640/

Ukraine’s total debt to Russia, including the $2.2 billion bill for gas, now stands at $16.6 billion, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said on Thursday.

Ukraine has not paid for Russian gas since the beginning of 2013, and with all discounts withdrawn it is now charged $485 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas.

[zolace]

Don't start a fight and then complain when the other guy fights back.

According to my understanding, you are allowed to do that as long as the Americans promises to support you. Whether they really support you or not in the end is another concern.

Well in my opinion ,USA  should had some patience  and let the EU to handle the problem.

[bryant.coleman]

Well in my opinion ,USA  should had some patience  and let the EU to handle the problem.

Too late. The Americans have already shipped in hundreds of mercenaries from various private contractor firms back home. It is the Eu, which is not militarily interfering in the crisis.

[Nemo1024]

Slovakia is ready to send reverse deliveries of gas to Ukraine:
http://www.gazeta.ru/business/news/2014/04/10/n_6074989.shtml

So, either Slovakia (EU) is doing it for free (paying for it from our, taxpayers' pockets) or they are selling the gas at market price on credit, would be almost the same as the price that Russia demanded (minus non-payer penalties). In the latter case, EU can forget about ever seeing that money.

In the meantime, Russia apprised its economic help to Ukraine over the last 4 years by the means of reduced gas prices to 35.4 billion dollars. This was one of the point made by president Putin in a letter to leaders of EU countries.
http://ria.ru/economy/20140410/1003386120.html

Here is the letter:
http://itar-tass.com/politika/1111982

US State Department tells Russia that the price they ask from Ukraine is not the market price, that it's higher than what they ask from EU countries. (Well, of course it's higher. Heard about back-payments?!)
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1112685?utm_medium=rss20

[bryant.coleman]

Slovakia is ready to send reverse deliveries of gas to Ukraine:
http://www.gazeta.ru/business/news/2014/04/10/n_6074989.shtml

This can be good news for Gazprom. Getting the payments from Kiev is almost impossible. But now, as Slovakia is an EU member they will be legally obliged to make the payments.

[Nemo1024]

Ukraine decided to go to Stockholm court after all:
http://www.bfm.ru/news/254077?doctype=news

[Balthazar]

Funny...

1) Don't pay;
2) Receive a warning;
3) Pay $23 millin from $2.3 billion and tell that you are sorry for that;
4) Receive a GTFO suggestion from your partner;
5) Sue with the partner.

Nothing changed during the last 20+ years 

[bryant.coleman]

Nothing changed during the last 20+ years 

It has happened twice before. And the EU and the US had blamed Russia for the crisis then. What makes you think that things will be a little bit different this time around?

[Nemo1024]

More detailed explanation of the Ukrainian economic situation from President Putin:
http://rt.com/business/putin-west-ukraine-help-948/

"The dramatic situation includes the fact that in the first quarter of this year [Ukraine] had the lowest gas prices, and even at those prices our Ukrainian partners stopped paying,” he said as April 7 was another due date for payment according to the current gas contract.

“Out of the $540 million owed, not a single dollar or ruble was paid. Absolutely nothing, zero," Putin said.

...

In the past four years, with all the discounts provided by Russia, Moscow claims to have subsidized Ukraine’s economy to the tune of $35.4 billion, coupled with a $3 billion loan tranche in December last year.

[Nemo1024]

Kiev does not see any reasons to pay for Russian gas at the new prices so they are stopping all payments for the duration of negotiations.
http://www.bfm.ru/news/254202?doctype=news

So, what's new? They didn't pay before, and they are still not paying...

EU does not see any legal way of performing virtual reverse deliveries of gas to Ukraine without Gasprom's consent, while physical reverse delivery is technically impossible:
http://www.forbes.ru/news/254559-es-priznal-nevozmozhnost-reversa-gaza-na-ukrainu-bez-soglasiya-gazproma

[bryant.coleman]

Kiev does not see any reasons to pay for Russian gas at the new prices so they are stopping all payments for the duration of negotiations.
So, what's new? They didn't pay before, and they are still not paying...

OK... here is a compromise. Ukraine should clear its debts to Gazprom within the next 7 days. If it is not doing so, then Russia should seize Eastern and Southern Ukraine, and write-off the Ukrainian debts.

[niothor]

Kiev does not see any reasons to pay for Russian gas at the new prices so they are stopping all payments for the duration of negotiations.
So, what's new? They didn't pay before, and they are still not paying...

OK... here is a compromise. Ukraine should clear its debts to Gazprom within the next 7 days. If it is not doing so, then Russia should seize Eastern and Southern Ukraine, and write-off the Ukrainian debts.

I take this as a joke... if not I will cry

[Nemo1024]

Kiev does not see any reasons to pay for Russian gas at the new prices so they are stopping all payments for the duration of negotiations.
So, what's new? They didn't pay before, and they are still not paying...

OK... here is a compromise. Ukraine should clear its debts to Gazprom within the next 7 days. If it is not doing so, then Russia should seize Eastern and Southern Ukraine, and write-off the Ukrainian debts.

I take this as a joke... if not I will cry

Well, every joke has a grain of truth in it, doesn't it?
If you don't pay for your mortgage, the bank takes your house...

That said, the only acceptable way for Russia to annex South-Eastern regions would be after a referendum in those regions. I also think that for such an important question, the number of votes for joining Russia must be over 70-80% (and not the customary 50% as during "normal" voting).

The other option would be buying that land (Alaska precedent). Given that Ukraine has a large debt, the value of that debt should be subtracted from the purchase price. I remember that recently Germany actually offered to buy some islands from Greece and write off their debt, so it seems to be an EU-approved venue.