Ukraine rejects Russia Gazprom gas price hike

[bryant.coleman]

US can't really put up sanctions against China. It is just too profitable for them to have trade relations with China. This is because of the sheer size of China and it's economy. We are talking about a country that has more than 1/7 of the world's population here. For every 7 people in the one, one of them is from China.
If they put trade sanctions on China, it means they are cutting 1/7 of the world off from their trade market! How crazy would that be? @@
That is why time and again they have let China get away with its shenanigans. As long as they don't act crazy like Putin.

Along with Japan, China is also one of the top holders of the United States Treasury bonds (China holds somewhere around $1 trillion and $2 trillion worth of treasury bonds). So sanctions against China are simply not viable.

[Nemo1024]

Absurdity reigns! According to Jatsenjuk, it is now Russia that stole gas from Ukraine for 1 billion dollars:
http://top.rbc.ru/economics/27/05/2014/926463.shtml

He says that gas was stolen together with Crimea:
http://finance.rambler.ru/news/economics/146124870.html
Hmm.. he may actually have a point there (I don't know if his numbers are correct), that some Ukrainian-purchased gas was stored in Crimea

While Naftogas blames Gasprom for failed negotiations:
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/05/27/naftogaz/

Can they pay up, already?!

[lost7]

I'm not even sure what I think about the situation anymore

[Nemo1024]

It's madness wrapped in schizophrenia with a touch of evil.


Right, there seems to be some headway:

Kiev negotiators agree to pay $2bn to Gazprom to cover part of gas debt
http://rt.com/business/161560-ukraine-must-pay-oettinger/

[Slark]

It's madness wrapped in schizophrenia with a touch of evil.


Right, there seems to be some headway:

Kiev negotiators agree to pay $2bn to Gazprom to cover part of gas debt
http://rt.com/business/161560-ukraine-must-pay-oettinger/

So now if they couldn't conquer them they will make them pay and eventually Ukraine will be full time economic slave to Russia. Future is pretty grim for them.

[Nemo1024]

It's madness wrapped in schizophrenia with a touch of evil.


Right, there seems to be some headway:

Kiev negotiators agree to pay $2bn to Gazprom to cover part of gas debt
http://rt.com/business/161560-ukraine-must-pay-oettinger/

So now if they couldn't conquer them they will make them pay and eventually Ukraine will be full time economic slave to Russia. Future is pretty grim for them.

As opposed to what? Free gas?
Last time I checked Germany, Poland, Baltics, and other countries pay for the Russian gas. What makes Ukraine so exceptional?

[bryant.coleman]

So now if they couldn't conquer them they will make them pay and eventually Ukraine will be full time economic slave to Russia. Future is pretty grim for them.

Paying for the gas makes them slaves of Russia? If I go by that definition, then almost all the nations in the European Union will become slaves to the Russian Federation. If they don't want to give money to the Russians, then don't use the gas. Very simple.

[deisik]

So now if they couldn't conquer them they will make them pay and eventually Ukraine will be full time economic slave to Russia. Future is pretty grim for them.

Paying for the gas makes them slaves of Russia? If I go by that definition, then almost all the nations in the European Union will become slaves to the Russian Federation

Actually, you're correct!

But this is only half-true, since you become enslaved only when you have to pay and have nothing to get paid for. Otherwise it is called interdependence...

[Slark]

So now if they couldn't conquer them they will make them pay and eventually Ukraine will be full time economic slave to Russia. Future is pretty grim for them.

Paying for the gas makes them slaves of Russia? If I go by that definition, then almost all the nations in the European Union will become slaves to the Russian Federation. If they don't want to give money to the Russians, then don't use the gas. Very simple.

There are very simple resolutions for almost all human problems yet we are constantly fighting and making our problem even worse. And yes EU it to certain degree slave, every debt is some sort of slavery after all. Current economic system is build that way, only to deepen our debt.

[Nemo1024]

Here's Yatsenjuk's 1 billion dollar claim in English:
http://rt.com/business/161644-moscow-expects-ukraine-payment/

[kuroman]

I'm surprised that Russia managed to sell their gas to China at more than decent rates, considering the situation, I guess it's a win win situation for both Russia and China here, not to mention that if this deal is combined with the deal to pay each other in their own currencies and by pass the $ that's a double blow right there to the US of A


Edit: btw Russia still selling gas to Ukrain at 260$ rate ...

[Nemo1024]

Wasn't it gong to be 480 payable by today for the coming month?

[Rigon]

Interesting move:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/put-sanctions-china-invading-vietnam-territory-deployment-oil-rig-haiyang-981/p2b7Rnnv

This one is not only interesting but also ridiculous. People seem to get extreme. Is anybody here gonna sign it lol?

by the way this is the first time I see a petition for sanction (normally I have seen and signed many petitions requesting someone to stop something, not to punish someone else). Anybody has a precedent?

Ignoring all real political and economical reasons for US not to (or not be able to) put any sanction against China, the approach of this petition itself is ... allow me to say stupid. First of all this is for US people to raise their voice to their government and thus, of course, it should be (and must be) for the interest of US and its citizens, I mean direct interest. Those guys across the ocean better protect their land by themselves than waiting for a move of foreigners. The White House has enough worriness recently.

What a joke!

[zolace]

China I would say the hard working culture is the main thing in this economic miracle of China ... Their family are lot different than ours (when I say ours I mean on normal US family) they respect more family and have different way of thinking , from childhood they re constantly fed by that how you can only by hard work and fair job make something in your life .
I'm not saying that in the US, families are not taught by the same thing , but they are lot different

[zolace]

Interesting move:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/put-sanctions-china-invading-vietnam-territory-deployment-oil-rig-haiyang-981/p2b7Rnnv

This one is not only interesting but also ridiculous. People seem to get extreme. Is anybody here gonna sign it lol?

by the way this is the first time I see a petition for sanction (normally I have seen and signed many petitions requesting someone to stop something, not to punish someone else). Anybody has a precedent?

Someone please tell those people that if Obama could, it would be the first thing he does. Nobody wishes to stop China to become a superpower more than US does. Come one give me a break, life is not that easy.

It is funny that it is even showed in the petition that 100k signatures are adequate.

@ Rigon LOL if you didn't mention it, I would have forgotten about it! I remember those two ridiculous petitions. For the Texas secession petition, most of the people whose names were on it weren't even from Texas! Just people who were anti-Obama.

Imagine if they had succeeded. The people of Texas would have literally been 'kicked out' of the country by their own countrymen!

Anyway, that website is an official government website though. I can appreciate the government's effort to reach out to the people by having them make petitions. It is a solid approach to stay connected with the people. But this is the internet. There's simply too much dumbs.

[Rigon]

the website is an appreciated effort of the government for a democratic environment. Some people just go too far. Anyway I think many of them do some strange or funny things on purpose. For example this petition, it will not ring a bell in the white house but it will definitely raise hate of Chinese to people who petition against them, in this case it is Vietnamese.

[zolace]

the website is an appreciated effort of the government for a democratic environment. Some people just go too far. Anyway I think many of them do some strange or funny things on purpose. For example this petition, it will not ring a bell in the white house but it will definitely raise hate of Chinese to people who petition against them, in this case it is Vietnamese.

Rigon I would like to emphasize that the international press calls those islands and rocks "in dispute", and so far no verdict has been released with respect to legal sovereignty by any court. So the addressing of the name "Vietnam" in the petition is specifying target for the hate of the chinese crowd. Then this move must not be from Vietnamese government unless they are insane (or stupid).
the website itself declares they do not control how signature is made, which implies they accept fake accounts for signing.

[noviapriani]

the website is an appreciated effort of the government for a democratic environment. Some people just go too far. Anyway I think many of them do some strange or funny things on purpose. For example this petition, it will not ring a bell in the white house but it will definitely raise hate of Chinese to people who petition against them, in this case it is Vietnamese.

Interesting. But if it comes down to a choice, who do you think the US gov will choose? The Vietnamese government or the Chinese government?
Despite the infamous history of the Vietnam War, Vietnam today is one of the most pro-American countries in Asia, with 71% of Vietnamese people viewing the U.S. favorably in 2002.
Vietnamese students form the 8th largest group of international students studying in the United States, representing 2% of all foreigners pursuing higher education in America.
No matter how you look at it, today Vietnam is totally an Ally to US and they need Allies now all the more especially with the conflict against Putin.

[Nemo1024]

... especially with the conflict against Putin.

If Putin sitting back and twiddling his thumbs is a conflict, I hate to see real action. 

As for Vietnam after napalm - we've seen another such indoctrination - in Japan, after the nukes.

[Rigon]

Washing will choose its interest. In this case I guess they will keep certain cooperation with Vietnam, just enough to send China some necessary messages without pissing China off while strengthening their support to Philippine.
US will not unilaterally jump in a war with China. No way. A smart move is they will wait for some country or UN to start first, then they will join. Then presently US will wait and see.