New Official AMT Thread

[sabre]

Why You Should Comply with the Rule

Merchants who violate the Rule can be sued by the FTC for injunctive relief, monetary civil penalties of up to $16,000 per violation (any time during the five years preceding the filing of the complaint), and consumer redress (any time during the three years preceding the filing of the complaint). When the mails are involved, the Postal Service also has authority to take action for problems such as non-delivery. State law enforcement agencies can take action for violating state consumer protection laws.

Well, well... looks like $16,000 per violation from the FTC.

Does FEDEX mail come under the authority of the Postal Service? 

Well, fedex does not come into play if it has "not been delivered". So the US Postal Service authority will come into play if 30 days of non-communication has occurred. They cannot ship without consent by any mail service after 30 days of non-communication. And this rule does not go away if they ship via FedEx after 30 days (its not a protection).

And this $16,000 is only from the FTC ! When a legal ruling will occur any company may potentially also have to pay legal fees and other associated losses that may occur to the customer. So it will be more than $16,000 per violation (or 1.2 TH order). Private lawyers will jump on this open and shut case.

Here's some more info...

COMPLAIN IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM

Phone the company right away for help. Follow up with a letter to the company's customer service department and keep a copy.

Seek third-party help if the company won't help you. Send your letter asking for help and copies of records to the consumer protection agency or Better Business Bureau (BBB) and the U.S. Postal Inspection Service office where the business is located. You can get the address of the Postal Inspection Service office, which has authority over mail orders, from your local postmaster.

U.S. Postal Inspection Service office where the business is located.
Here's a handy form from the USPS for Mail Fraud..

http://ehome.uspis.gov/FCSExternal/pdf/ps8165.pdf

[loshia]

Guys
Take  a legal action against Zipkin as individual not against amt
If that is possible at all that will be the thing to move his ass quickly where it belongs
Ask you lawyers what options do yo have

[sabre]

Guess I was wrong, it can be a criminal case as well !

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/fraud.html

What the Law Says About Fraud
Laws against fraud vary from state to state, and can be criminal or civil in nature.

While the exact wording of fraud charges varies among state and federal laws. the essential elements needed to prove a fraud claim in general include:

(1) a misrepresentation of a material fact; (AMT stating a shipping date as well as specifications of miner's performance)
(2) by a person or entity who knows or believes it to be false; (AMT management knew shipping dates were being missed and yet lied and stated otherwise)
(3) to a person or entity who justifiably relies on the misrepresentation; and (the customer who is patiently waiting)
(4) actual injury or loss resulting from his or her reliance. ($$$ paid amount + loss of bitcoin mining profit)


AMT needs to get their act together and start communicating truthfully the reason for the delays or refunding. The longer they take not to say anything the worse it will be for them. I have been politely stating this to them from the start but yet they cant's seem to understand mature business advice from established business folks.

And simply stating we have been shipping (we know you've been shipping your little miners - but not our orders !) everything will come out during discovery when the customer list is taken from them and their bank accounts checked for all the wire transfers for the 1.2 TH miners).

[sabre]

Guys
Take  a legal action against Zipkin as individual not against amt
If that is possible at all that will be the thing to move his ass quickly where it belongs
Ask you lawyers what options do yo have

Our payment was sent to AMT so we cant sue Zipkin directly. Now if he truly didn't make a LLC or some other proper business entity then yes, the same lawsuit would apply to him directly. Either way, the owners personal assets would be assessed as well for payback even if they declared bankruptcy.

[Syke]

Our payment was sent to AMT so we cant sue Zipkin directly. Now if he truly didn't make a LLC or some other proper business entity then yes, the same lawsuit would apply to him directly. Either way, the owners personal assets would be assessed as well for payback even if they declared bankruptcy.

AMT is not registered to do business in PA, so yes, they do not have a proper business entity.

[loshia]

Our payment was sent to AMT so we cant sue Zipkin directly. Now if he truly didn't make a LLC or some other proper business entity then yes, the same lawsuit would apply to him directly. Either way, the owners personal assets would be assessed as well for payback even if they declared bankruptcy.

AMT is not registered to do business in PA, so yes, they do not have a proper business entity.

Nice so criminal charges then even better

[regtable69]

Well, for starters I am asking the police to arrest them right now on the grounds that I feel my family is in danger. They posted my name and address here which creates a threat to my family knowing my purchasing habits of expensive computer equipment which was private information. I am very upset and have asked them to remove my name form the forums. I want everyone at the company arrested, I am filing charges against everyone there since they all use the name AMT_Miners.  I want this all documented for my own safety.

this isnt direct to you mrpark but to all of you. america must be a different place to Britain because if i phoned my local constabulary they would tell me to f off politely, far too busy catching murderers and the sorts.

[sabre]

I am free to file charges, as I've said I feel my family is threatened and that is a valid enough reason. The police do not judge, I am filing charges against them and a judge will decide.

So sad ! All AMT has to do is delete off your personal information which would take seconds. Your request is completely reasonable. Actually for them not to remove off your post seems to me that they PURPOSELY did it to cause you personal distress and are keeping it there for this same reason.

AMT, stop playing games !!! This is serious stuff here that you are ignoring !

[opieum2]

Our payment was sent to AMT so we cant sue Zipkin directly. Now if he truly didn't make a LLC or some other proper business entity then yes, the same lawsuit would apply to him directly. Either way, the owners personal assets would be assessed as well for payback even if they declared bankruptcy.

AMT is not registered to do business in PA, so yes, they do not have a proper business entity.

They are registered in Delaware. In most cases that is enough. If they have the proper tax forms and licenses put in which are not necessarily public record, then they are fine. This is normal and not in any shape or forum illegal. They likely are a legitimate business entity in PA. Their outsourced assembly plant would have required the proper information just to do business with them. A Tax EIN would have been required to validate that kind of work or it can be a liability to the assembly company they are sourcing to as well.

By your logic then Microsoft, Google, Apple and just about every fortune 500 is operating illegally out of their home states. This is almost a standard practice because of the beneficial tax status that one gets from starting a corporation in Delaware. It is not something EVERY corporation does, as I didn't with my own corporation. I instead preferred the tax benefits of my home state and other breaks for keeping it local.

A little primer on this. http://www.bizfilings.com/learn/incorporate-delaware-nevada.aspx I imagine AMT has their tax filings and all other local licenses in order or it would be a HUGE problem for them otherwise. But that bit of info usually is not public. Though that might vary from state to state.

[opieum2]

Well, for starters I am asking the police to arrest them right now on the grounds that I feel my family is in danger. They posted my name and address here which creates a threat to my family knowing my purchasing habits of expensive computer equipment which was private information. I am very upset and have asked them to remove my name form the forums which they did not. I want everyone at the company arrested, I am filing charges against everyone there since they all had access to the computer posting under the name AMT_Miners.  I want this all documented for my own safety.

Well I guess that pretty much ends AMT. Now noone gets anything. But I do agree it is poor form to be posting anyones private info underacted on the internet like that. I would be pretty pissed too if they posted more than my first name on here and even my first name I would not want out there.

Hopefully they delete your info before this needs to escalate any more.

[Syke]

They are registered in Delaware. In most cases that is enough. If they have the proper tax forms and licenses put in which are not necessarily public record, then they are fine.

They are "incorporated" in DE. PA requires registration as a "foreign business". Business registration records are public. Not only is AMT not registered to do business in PA, but they are using the name of another business.

By your logic then Microsoft, Google, Apple and just about every fortune 500 is operating illegally out of their home states.

No, because those business are correctly registered to do business in other states. Let's take a look at how a fine upstanding business does it.

Incorporated in WY:

https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?eFNum=149144214231010201167112190255028042109060235081

Registered in KS (perform business entity search, search for "bf labs"):

https://www.kansas.gov/bess/flow/main?execution=e2s1

[AMT_miners]

Well, for starters I am asking the police to arrest them right now on the grounds that I feel my family is in danger. They posted my name and address here which creates a threat to my family knowing my purchasing habits of expensive computer equipment which was private information. I am very upset and have asked them to remove my name form the forums which they did not. I want everyone at the company arrested, I am filing charges against everyone there since they all had access to the computer posting under the name AMT_Miners.  I want this all documented for my own safety.

Actually Brian, we posted your name and state. Just in shier instance that you might be correct on that one we went ahead and deleted your name and township. So now it could be any Brian in New Jersey. Feel safe.

And how about Josh's family, friends, all of his personal addresses that have been posted over and over again on this thread. How about how clients showed up at his house on 8 different occasions? How about the car windows that were smashed in front of his house?

How about the first office they worked out of which was his fathers office that was broken into (nothing was stolen) which basically forced AMT out of that office into a new location? How about the affiliated groups associated with Josh's father that questioned his affiliation or recognition based on the sick bastards on this thread that have nothing better to do with their lives than screw with companies that had the best intentions in the world and drive them to verge of something close to clinical depression.

And how about the banking institutions that AMT has operated with that have been screwed with buy clients who didn't want to wait.. Back in November 1 week after a client ordered and then read crap on this thread.

Or the messages left on Josh's voice mail threatening his family directly from Craig Lenell himself.

Its a public forum, and it sucks when your personal info is posted on it and found on google later, it could really effect how a start up company works with banks, institutions, vendors, or more simply can't, because of the preliminary google search that most vendors or institutions do prior to recruiting a reseller or client.

You think making a mining company is easy?  It's the hardest thing any of us have ever to do, and during the whole process we said to ourselves "It'll be worth it in the end, let's just tuff it out, get over this hurdle, just wait", which is now the furthest thing from the truth.

[sabre]

Well, for starters I am asking the police to arrest them right now on the grounds that I feel my family is in danger. They posted my name and address here which creates a threat to my family knowing my purchasing habits of expensive computer equipment which was private information. I am very upset and have asked them to remove my name form the forums which they did not. I want everyone at the company arrested, I am filing charges against everyone there since they all had access to the computer posting under the name AMT_Miners.  I want this all documented for my own safety.

Actually Brian, we posted your name and state. Just in shier instance that you might be correct on that one we went ahead and deleted your name and township. So now it could be any Brian in New Jersey. Feel safe.

And how about Josh's family, friends, all of his personal addresses that have been posted over and over again on this thread. How about how clients showed up at his house on 8 different occasions? How about the car windows that were smashed in front of his house?

How about the first office they worked out of which was his fathers office that was broken into (nothing was stolen) which basically forced AMT out of that office into a new location? How about the affiliated groups associated with Josh's father that questioned his affiliation or recognition based on the sick bastards on this thread that have nothing better to do with their lives than screw with companies that had the best intentions in the world and drive them to verge of something close to clinical depression.

And how about the banking institutions that AMT has operated with that have been screwed with buy clients who didn't want to wait.. Back in November 1 week after a client ordered and then read crap on this thread.

Or the messages left on Josh's voice mail threatening his family directly from Craig Lenell himself.

Its a public forum, and it sucks when your personal info is posted on it and found on google later, it could really effect how a start up company works with banks, institutions, vendors, or more simply can't, because of the preliminary google search that most vendors or institutions do prior to recruiting a reseller or client.

You think making a mining company is easy?  It's the hardest thing any of us have ever to do, and during the whole process we said to ourselves "It'll be worth it in the end, let's just tuff it out, get over this hurdle, just wait", which is now the furthest thing from the truth.

Wow! So you're taking revenge on what happened to Josh with your other customers who had nothing to do with those postings? And you didn't learn that by posting Brian's information that he could have his home broken into?

Grow up AMT ! You say you have all these hardships ? Well, LEARN FROM THEM and start COMMUNICATING.

Oh and what , you think a mining company is hard? Guess what, running ANY business is hard and customer service is one key factor in a businesses success. You think we have no companies that we are running ourselves? That we don't know how hard it is?  Stop acting like the victim. You took our money and you have nothing to show. Not even a voice,  You should be calling all of your customers and giving them updates.

All your hardships are self inflicted by you. By communicating you could have avoided a large number of issues.

[mrpark]

I am willing to forgive them, let's not hammer them for that now it's over. Let's all be professional here and resolve our issues in a civil manner.

[sabre]

I am willing to forgive them, let's not hammer them for that now it's over. Let's all be professional here and resolve our issues in a civil manner.

Sounds good. You are gracious for forgiving them.

Ok, AMT, so how about some updates on where you are with our miners? What is the expected ship date now? If you don't want to reply here then reply to all your customers via email. I'll get the update that way as well.

[sabre]

Well, for starters I am asking the police to arrest them right now on the grounds that I feel my family is in danger. They posted my name and address here which creates a threat to my family knowing my purchasing habits of expensive computer equipment which was private information. I am very upset and have asked them to remove my name form the forums which they did not. I want everyone at the company arrested, I am filing charges against everyone there since they all had access to the computer posting under the name AMT_Miners.  I want this all documented for my own safety.

Actually Brian, we posted your name and state. Just in shier instance that you might be correct on that one we went ahead and deleted your name and township. So now it could be any Brian in New Jersey. Feel safe.

And how about Josh's family, friends, all of his personal addresses that have been posted over and over again on this thread. How about how clients showed up at his house on 8 different occasions? How about the car windows that were smashed in front of his house?

How about the first office they worked out of which was his fathers office that was broken into (nothing was stolen) which basically forced AMT out of that office into a new location? How about the affiliated groups associated with Josh's father that questioned his affiliation or recognition based on the sick bastards on this thread that have nothing better to do with their lives than screw with companies that had the best intentions in the world and drive them to verge of something close to clinical depression.

And how about the banking institutions that AMT has operated with that have been screwed with buy clients who didn't want to wait.. Back in November 1 week after a client ordered and then read crap on this thread.

Or the messages left on Josh's voice mail threatening his family directly from Craig Lenell himself.

Its a public forum, and it sucks when your personal info is posted on it and found on google later, it could really effect how a start up company works with banks, institutions, vendors, or more simply can't, because of the preliminary google search that most vendors or institutions do prior to recruiting a reseller or client.

You think making a mining company is easy?  It's the hardest thing any of us have ever to do, and during the whole process we said to ourselves "It'll be worth it in the end, let's just tuff it out, get over this hurdle, just wait", which is now the furthest thing from the truth.

Ummmm, AMT, you are the moderator of this forum, so you need to remove off Brian's full name from all the quotes referenced from your original post as well...

[FrictionlessCoin]

Grow up AMT ! You say you have all these hardships ? Well, LEARN FROM THEM and start COMMUNICATING.

Oh and what , you think a mining company is hard? Guess what, running ANY business is hard and customer service is one key factor in a businesses success. You think we have no companies that we are running ourselves? That we don't know how hard it is?  Stop acting like the victim. You took our money and you have nothing to show. Not even a voice,  You should be calling all of your customers and giving them updates.

All your hardships are self inflicted by you. By communicating you could have avoided a large number of issues.

+1  The lack of responses to email, phone calls and shipmend drop offs only leads to a very ugly result.

Maybe AMT thinks that taking $12,000 from a hard working person has no consequences, but for some people, that's a lot of money.  It could be their life savings...  I recommended that AMT start sending out refunds immediately!

[s1crow]

Nothing will change with AMT.  None of them even know how to run a company.   How hard is it to give updates.  Yet they have promised again and again they would be better. How can you tell if AMT is telling a lie?  Their mouth/fingers (for typing) are moving.  They have no loyal customers because they haven't taken care of even one of their customers.   Remember back in the day when a number of customers defended AMT??  Even some of those customers now suing them.  Well no one is in those ranks anymore.  You reap what you Sow AMT  Your Reaping is coming.  No one likes being lied to, especially REPEATEDLY!

[FrictionlessCoin]

It seems FedEx has tried to deliver my miner for the third time unsuccessfully, the last attempt was today at 11:52 am. I am still hopeful you will go and pick up the miner today at FedEx as you've said AMT. Thank You.

Absolutely ridiculous,  what use is an RMA if there is nobody to receive shipment on the other side?

[FrictionlessCoin]

Could you please tell the person sitting in the dark at the desk on the laptop to answer the door once in a while?

If a company is deliberately not accepting deliveries,  then it is crystal clear that this company is not operating in a *normal* manner.

Let's just put it this way,  AMT claimed that they had a shortage of power supplies.  So where are those back-ordered power supplies going to be shipped to when they arrive?

The fact that AMT *refuses* to reveal to you and all other customers their *real* shipping address, tells you that this vendor cannot be trusted.