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Author Topic: [9 TH] Bitparking Pool, DGM 0%,vardiff,stratum,Merge Mining  (Read 151106 times)
doublec
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May 05, 2013, 12:05:47 PM
 #501

Surely the length of time it takes to solve the block has no bearing on the reward?
It does with DGM. In longer rounds slightly more is paid in an attempt to offset the pain of the long round. In shorter rounds less is paid to help the pool build up a buffer. You can see this reflected in the existing payouts on that page. This is in turn affected by the variance the pool has been experiencing in that future rounds will pay more to make up for the lesser amounts paid in the unlucky rounds.

The actual effect of the adjustments is controlled by the parameters the pool operator chooses for o, f and c as described in the double geometric method post. The parameters I picked result in up to approximately 5.8 BTC extra per block payout to correct for variance/long rounds. That's why you're seeing the existing estimate increasing much more slowly around the 30BTC value.
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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin-Qt, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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May 05, 2013, 12:23:25 PM
 #502

Surely the length of time it takes to solve the block has no bearing on the reward?
It does with DGM. In longer rounds slightly more is paid in an attempt to offset the pain of the long round. In shorter rounds less is paid to help the pool build up a buffer. You can see this reflected in the existing payouts on that page. This is in turn affected by the variance the pool has been experiencing in that future rounds will pay more to make up for the lesser amounts paid in the unlucky rounds.

The actual effect of the adjustments is controlled by the parameters the pool operator chooses for o, f and c as described in the double geometric method post. The parameters I picked result in up to approximately 5.8 BTC extra per block payout to correct for variance/long rounds. That's why you're seeing the existing estimate increasing much more slowly around the 30BTC value.

I'd also suspect that with missing for this long the pool has lost a some of it's hash rate so those still mining are gaining % against those who have stopped this round.

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May 05, 2013, 12:36:16 PM
 #503

Surely the length of time it takes to solve the block has no bearing on the reward?
It does with DGM. In longer rounds slightly more is paid in an attempt to offset the pain of the long round. In shorter rounds less is paid to help the pool build up a buffer. You can see this reflected in the existing payouts on that page. This is in turn affected by the variance the pool has been experiencing in that future rounds will pay more to make up for the lesser amounts paid in the unlucky rounds.
The actual effect of the adjustments is controlled by the parameters the pool operator chooses for o, f and c as described in the double geometric method post. The parameters I picked result in up to approximately 5.8 BTC extra per block payout to correct for variance/long rounds. That's why you're seeing the existing estimate increasing much more slowly around the 30BTC value.

Ahhh, thanks very much for pointing that out.
My fault for not paying more attention in DGM classes.  Smiley


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May 05, 2013, 02:47:40 PM
 #504

Heh. Know what would crack me up? For this block to go up to around the 72 hrs mark. And when it's finally solved, for it to be an orphan teehee.
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May 05, 2013, 04:02:01 PM
 #505

Heh. Know what would crack me up? For this block to go up to around the 72 hrs mark. And when it's finally solved, for it to be an orphan teehee.

That's cruel man.

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firefop
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May 05, 2013, 04:45:29 PM
 #506

Heh. Know what would crack me up? For this block to go up to around the 72 hrs mark. And when it's finally solved, for it to be an orphan teehee.

That's cruel man.

True, but hilarious if it happened.

According to the pool hashrate we should be averaging a block in under 14 hours. so between 1 and 2 a day...

Bad Luck is Just Bad.

Are we sure there isn't something going on with the backend re:internet access or the nodes pier connections?

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May 05, 2013, 10:44:07 PM
 #507

Bad Luck is Just Bad.

Are we sure there isn't something going on with the backend re:internet access or the nodes pier connections?
Believe me this always goes through an operators mind during long rounds. Paranoia sets in. I have checked and things are fine. We're solving namecoin blocks at a normal rate for example. We're just not finding hashes close enough to the bitcoin target. The best hash we've found so far is:

Code:
00000000000001d26460346f49a03d529a843b1603e90507824582f2edb98b7f <= so far
00000000000001AA3D0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 <= bitcoin target

We've had a bunch close to that but nothing over. Currently luck is around 19%. We've had worse (about 14% I think). I'm sure other pool operators have had worse too. OzCoin had a 100+ million share round recently. It's definitely not the best timing just as we switch to DGM scaring a bunch of high hash rate miners off unfortunately but what can you do.
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May 06, 2013, 12:19:03 AM
 #508

The only thing we can do is stick it out.
Honestly I like this methodology or pps the best.

The other pools and the way they divvy out the shares can be very cruel.  Think of this scenario.  You have been crunching this one for 60 hours, then your internet goes out for an hour or power failure, or your system goes down for some reason.  you bring it back up to find that during that hour down time the hash was solved, but since you were gone for more than what is it 15 minutes?  You are considered a 'hopper' and got nothing for those 60 hours of work you put in.  This is the reason I choose PPS, and now, this method of mining.  Ive been burnt many times.

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May 06, 2013, 12:45:59 AM
 #509

Once is accidental. Twice is coincidence. Three times is conspiracy. Ever since the recent difficulty increase, my sense is that nearly ALL pools have been having "Bad luck." Of course blocks will take longer due to difficulty increase. But "luck" or CDF has been consistently bad for BitMinter, Slush, and it seems Bitparking as well.

The first two pools I know first-hand by mining and checking their pool's own stats. Their threads in this forum coincide with Bitparking users' own complaints of poor luck. Is this coincidence or conspiracy?

I'm not into FUD, but this is an interesting theory: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27062.msg2017786#msg2017786

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doublec
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May 06, 2013, 01:33:40 AM
 #510

I'm not into FUD, but this is an interesting theory: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27062.msg2017786#msg2017786
Block withholding is always a legitimate concern, especially on PPS pools. In my darker moments as I was watching my PPS reserve whittle away I was wondering if some asic devices weren't block withholding since it's in their best interests to do so (helps stop difficulty increasing but they get the same reward). I did check to make sure the big miners were actually solving bitcoin blocks occasionally. That's the paranoia I mentioned in my previous post. The variance in mining really is quite large and it's possible to have long periods of the wrong side of it.
jl2012
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May 06, 2013, 04:44:43 AM
 #511

Sorry but I may need to jump the boat very soon due to the soaring difficulty.

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May 06, 2013, 05:10:54 AM
 #512

Sorry but I may need to jump the boat very soon due to the soaring difficulty.

you mean exit mining?  or this pool?

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May 06, 2013, 05:14:41 AM
 #513

Sorry but I may need to jump the boat very soon due to the soaring difficulty.

you mean exit mining?  or this pool?

This pool. As difficulty is soaring, mining in a low hash rate DGM pool is suicidal. Due to the longer rounds, you will expect less reward when difficulty is still low

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doublec
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May 06, 2013, 05:20:30 AM
 #514

Finally got past the long block, block 234756 was found. Here's hoping for some shorter rounds and better luck.
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May 06, 2013, 05:42:34 AM
 #515

No pps, now watch your hash rate fall... oh well it was fun while it lasted. The only reasonable solution for a small-medium sized pool is a payout system more like coinotron
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May 06, 2013, 05:48:04 AM
 #516

The only reasonable solution for a small-medium sized pool is a payout system more like coinotron
Isn't Coinotron using DGM for bitcoin payments?
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May 06, 2013, 09:45:35 AM
 #517

The only reasonable solution for a small-medium sized pool is a payout system more like coinotron
Isn't Coinotron using DGM for bitcoin payments?

Yes, for Bitcoin they use DGM only with a 2% fee. For the other coins the methods and fees are: PPC - PPS 12%, RBPPS 2% / LTC - PPS 5%, RBPPS 2% / TRC - RBPPS 4% / FRC - PPS 5%, RBPPS 4%. There are also rather high minimum withdrawal thresholds for all coins and high fees in certain cases (ex. 0.1 LTC fee for withdrawals below 10 LTC). I mined there for a long time and can testify that my humble OC'd 7950 earns a lot more on Bitparking. They also don't pay for orphans in most cases (like Bitcoin) and there's no mention of where the transaction fees go. Not recommended.
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May 06, 2013, 10:29:02 AM
 #518

Some results from the !exchange command in #mmpool:

Code:
< mmbot> NMC is 0.00915001 BTC per NMC at Vircurex, we earn 221.383927344 NMC per bitcoin block = 2.02566514904 BTC or 8.1% additional BTC per block
< mmbot> IXC is 0.000189 BTC per IXC at Vircurex, we earn 7036.7594417 IXC per bitcoin block = 1.32994753448 BTC or 5.32% additional BTC per block
< mmbot> DVC is 2.08e-06 BTC per DVC at Vircurex, we earn 366497.887589 DVC per bitcoin block = 0.762315606184 BTC or 3.05% additional BTC per block
< mmbot> Total extra BTC per block is 4.1179282897 or 16.47% extra income

Seems a lot. Someone want to check the math?
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May 06, 2013, 10:46:09 AM
 #519

Seems a lot. Someone want to check the math?
http://dustcoin.com/mining pretty much agrees. They use BTC-e, Vircurex and Bter data.

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May 06, 2013, 12:48:51 PM
 #520

Some results from the !exchange command in #mmpool:

Code:
< mmbot> NMC is 0.00915001 BTC per NMC at Vircurex, we earn 221.383927344 NMC per bitcoin block = 2.02566514904 BTC or 8.1% additional BTC per block
< mmbot> IXC is 0.000189 BTC per IXC at Vircurex, we earn 7036.7594417 IXC per bitcoin block = 1.32994753448 BTC or 5.32% additional BTC per block
< mmbot> DVC is 2.08e-06 BTC per DVC at Vircurex, we earn 366497.887589 DVC per bitcoin block = 0.762315606184 BTC or 3.05% additional BTC per block
< mmbot> Total extra BTC per block is 4.1179282897 or 16.47% extra income

Seems a lot. Someone want to check the math?

It is a lot, why do you think you're so popular/awesome?  Wink

However, Freicoin is where my power's at right now, but I'm sure once it crashes & burns, I'll be back within a few days.  The other coins rarely keep my profits higher for more than 3-5 days before Bitparking starts to win again.

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