[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[Hueristic]

Found this pic on the Monero subreddit....

Nice, but why is gold only partially fungible? I think any element is 100% fungible correct?

Good question.

Here in the real world, gold is only semi-fungible because:

A. Bullion contains a fingerprint of radioisotopes and trace minerals that betrays its origin.  No bullion is 100% pure.  And 100% purity would function as an identifying characteristic.

B. Larger bars often have a serial number.

C. The possibility of/propensity for whitelisting is non-trivial, because there is a movement akin to the "ZOMG Blood Diamonds" social justice bullshit which seeks to curtail the market's supply of non-kosher "conflict minerals."

D. The particular form factor of gold bullion is not trivially alterable and alterations (IE smelting/refining/repouring) incur thermodynamic and transactional/economic friction.  Even in nature, gold nuggets are unique.

Perhaps the best illustration of this is when you try to sell 1oz of gold to your local coin store, and the price depends on whether that 1oz is in the form of an American Gold Eagle, Panda, Maple/Brit/Philly, generic round, shot, or 14k jewelery.

In contrast, the price of 1 XMR is always the same whether it was mined by a Chinese botnet and previously used to pay Hillary's friends in ISIS or freshly mined by Fluffypony and never previously transferred, because there's no way to tell the difference.

I had no clue about all that shit but also can't see anyone testing a troy ounce ingot for any of that crap either, just purity.

[1714204800]

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[1714204800]

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[1714204800]

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[iCEBREAKER]

Found this pic on the Monero subreddit....

Nice, but why is gold only partially fungible? I think any element is 100% fungible correct?

Good question.

Here in the real world, gold is only semi-fungible because:

A. Bullion contains a fingerprint of radioisotopes and trace minerals that betrays its origin.  No bullion is 100% pure.  And 100% purity would function as an identifying characteristic.

B. Larger bars often have a serial number.

C. The possibility of/propensity for whitelisting is non-trivial, because there is a movement akin to the "ZOMG Blood Diamonds" social justice bullshit which seeks to curtail the market's supply of non-kosher "conflict minerals."

D. The particular form factor of gold bullion is not trivially alterable and alterations (IE smelting/refining/repouring) incur thermodynamic and transactional/economic friction.  Even in nature, gold nuggets are unique.

Perhaps the best illustration of this is when you try to sell 1oz of gold to your local coin store, and the price depends on whether that 1oz is in the form of an American Gold Eagle, Panda, Maple/Brit/Philly, generic round, shot, or 14k jewelery.

In contrast, the price of 1 XMR is always the same whether it was mined by a Chinese botnet and previously used to pay Hillary's friends in ISIS or freshly mined by Fluffypony and never previously transferred, because there's no way to tell the difference.

I had no clue about all that shit but also can't see anyone testing a troy ounce ingot for any of that crap either, just purity.

Your local coin store doesn't need to test to see whether its an Eagle, Maple, Philly, generic, or shot.  They just have to look at it.

The diamond guys also thought the "conflict mineral" stuff would never affect their fungibility.  Not sure how that worked out for them.  

Anyone know more about that?  Aminorex?  Fluffy?  Bueller?  Anyone?  

[Millionero]

Aminorex last posted in September.

[bitebits]

Just noticed this on store.bitcoin.com, pretty cool!

[c789]

Found this pic on the Monero subreddit....

Nice, but why is gold only partially fungible? I think any element is 100% fungible correct?

Good question.

Here in the real world, gold is only semi-fungible because:

A. Bullion contains a fingerprint of radioisotopes and trace minerals that betrays its origin.  No bullion is 100% pure.  And 100% purity would function as an identifying characteristic.

B. Larger bars often have a serial number.

C. The possibility of/propensity for whitelisting is non-trivial, because there is a movement akin to the "ZOMG Blood Diamonds" social justice bullshit which seeks to curtail the market's supply of non-kosher "conflict minerals."

D. The particular form factor of gold bullion is not trivially alterable and alterations (IE smelting/refining/repouring) incur thermodynamic and transactional/economic friction.  Even in nature, gold nuggets are unique.

Perhaps the best illustration of this is when you try to sell 1oz of gold to your local coin store, and the price depends on whether that 1oz is in the form of an American Gold Eagle, Panda, Maple/Brit/Philly, generic round, shot, or 14k jewelery.

In contrast, the price of 1 XMR is always the same whether it was mined by a Chinese botnet and previously used to pay Hillary's friends in ISIS or freshly mined by Fluffypony and never previously transferred, because there's no way to tell the difference.

I had no clue about all that shit but also can't see anyone testing a troy ounce ingot for any of that crap either, just purity.

Your local coin store doesn't need to test to see whether its an Eagle, Maple, Philly, generic, or shot.  They just have to look at it.

The diamond guys also thought the "conflict mineral" stuff would never effect their fungibility.  Not sure how that worked out for them.   

Anyone know more about that?  Aminorex?  Fluffy?  Bueller?  Anyone?   

Diamonds can have a unique microscopic laser etching ID, or custom messages:
https://www.serendipitydiamonds.com/blog/how-to-read-the-gia-laser-inscription-on-your-diamond/

[DiCE1904]

Just noticed this on store.bitcoin.com, pretty cool!

Tried to order but it seems you can only paste a BTC addy in there and not a XMR long one

[DaveyJones]

Maybe send their support a ticket so they fix it ^^

[CryptoRambler]

Found this pic on the Monero subreddit....

Nice, but why is gold only partially fungible? I think any element is 100% fungible correct?

Good question.

Here in the real world, gold is only semi-fungible because:

A. Bullion contains a fingerprint of radioisotopes and trace minerals that betrays its origin.  No bullion is 100% pure.  And 100% purity would function as an identifying characteristic.

B. Larger bars often have a serial number.

C. The possibility of/propensity for whitelisting is non-trivial, because there is a movement akin to the "ZOMG Blood Diamonds" social justice bullshit which seeks to curtail the market's supply of non-kosher "conflict minerals."

D. The particular form factor of gold bullion is not trivially alterable and alterations (IE smelting/refining/repouring) incur thermodynamic and transactional/economic friction.  Even in nature, gold nuggets are unique.

Perhaps the best illustration of this is when you try to sell 1oz of gold to your local coin store, and the price depends on whether that 1oz is in the form of an American Gold Eagle, Panda, Maple/Brit/Philly, generic round, shot, or 14k jewelery.

In contrast, the price of 1 XMR is always the same whether it was mined by a Chinese botnet and previously used to pay Hillary's friends in ISIS or freshly mined by Fluffypony and never previously transferred, because there's no way to tell the difference.

I had no clue about all that shit but also can't see anyone testing a troy ounce ingot for any of that crap either, just purity.

Your local coin store doesn't need to test to see whether its an Eagle, Maple, Philly, generic, or shot.  They just have to look at it.

The diamond guys also thought the "conflict mineral" stuff would never effect their fungibility.  Not sure how that worked out for them.  

Anyone know more about that?  Aminorex?  Fluffy?  Bueller?  Anyone?  

If it's a large enough silver holding they will test it. Apparently Chinese silver bars of questionable quality are all the rage

[cAPSLOCK]

Found this pic on the Monero subreddit.



https://en.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/5qpnh4/found_this_pic_on_the_bitcoin_subreddit_fixed_it/

It's really good.  A few more improvements will completely fix it.

1. Replace Transportable with (or add) a Digital category for BTC, XMR, and fiat.  Only giant stone Yap coins are not transportable, so it's moot.

1a. If leaving Transportable in, at least make the dollar faded (or cut the pic in half) to indicate the issues with moving non-trivial quantities of them.

2. Add Silver, indicate it is not Non-consumable (most is used for industry and not recovered).

3. Gold and Silver are fairly Divisible, more or less.  Bengals in South Asia, plus many denominations of gold coins throughout history.  Pieces of eight were like the Age of Exploration's Valcambi bars.   

4. Instead of (or in addition to) using the subtle faded icons for a weak property, cut the icons in half.  It's much easier to notice and intuitive for a semi-held property.

5. Change the shell pic to Nassarius gibbosulus and indicate monetized shells are both Scarce and Fungible.

Per the long-awaited sequel to the classic Shelling Out essay,

These people walked the shore not just in search of food, but also in search of a very specific set of uncommon yet authoritative objects – shells of the sea snail Nassarius gibbosulus. Once collected they were selected for size and intactness, and laboriously perforated.

Upper Paleolithic shell bead manufacturers were very selective of which size and shape of shells they chose to turn into beads: the resulting beads had “great consistency…of size and shape” compared to the natural biotic distribution of the shells.  Most variation in shell species, shape, and size was eliminated during manufacture. They were as similar in size, shape, and weight as it was possible for a collectable set of natural objects in that environment to be.

I want to try out the GUI, so the first three people to remake the image (.png please; we are not savages) with the above improvements gets 1 shiny new Monero.

Best version (my choice) gets a 1 XMR bonus.

Here is one version to your specs.

[marvykkio]

sorry, what would be the last miner to Monero 1070 gtx?

[jwinterm]

sorry, what would be the last miner to Monero 1070 gtx?

You don't want to mine Monero with a 1070, imo. Look here and set it for a 1070 GPU:
http://whattomine.com/

Monero is waaaay down the list. Mine Decred or Library or Zcash and trade out to BTC then to Monero and you will accrue more than directly mining Monero.

[bitebits]

Just noticed this on store.bitcoin.com, pretty cool!

Tried to order but it seems you can only paste a BTC addy in there and not a XMR long one

It has been fixed now for all three:
https://store.bitcoin.com/collections/physical-bitcoin/products/personalized-monero-wallet-keychain-dogtag
https://store.bitcoin.com/collections/physical-bitcoin/products/personalized-monero-wallet-keychain
https://store.bitcoin.com/collections/physical-bitcoin/products/personalized-monero-wallet-necklace

[derekleong75]

Hi Guys,

Just for the sake of trying it out, I set up a Monero mining pool using tools from the community and I am glad to say that everything is up and running.

The only thing is that being new, I need help to get some miners to help stress test it a bit.

If you are keen on semi-solo mining, please lend me your hashes @ www.sg-pool.com

I'm not IT trained and it took me a while to get things up to this state and I don't wanna break anything for now.
It took me a while to figure out how to register a domain name and the DNS work that goes along with it.

Would love to have more miners join in and see if we can find a block so that I can see what happens next with payments and such.

Regards.
Derek

PS.  Feel free to let me know what's a good next step.

[Ratatosk]

Hi all

About creating and managing multiple wallets in GUI beta...

In Windows, the wallet files are in directory
C:\Users\Xyz\Documents\Monero\wallets\nameofwallet1

So, if I want to create an other new wallet, I only have to RAR the folder nameofwallet1 and delete this directory ?

And doing so for every new wallet I want, and delete/restore the wallet folder from RAR, to switch between my several wallets ?

Is that OK ?

Or is there another better way ?

Is there a way to generate new receiving addresses for a given wallet ? Or a new unique integrated addresses, relative to a new payment ID ?

Thank you for your help and great job.

[MoneroMooo]

Hi all

About creating and managing multiple wallets in GUI beta...

In Windows, the wallet files are in directory
C:\Users\Xyz\Documents\Monero\wallets\nameofwallet1

So, if I want to create an other new wallet, I only have to RAR the folder nameofwallet1 and delete this directory ?

You can backup the wallets, but deleting seems unnecessary.
You might have been caught by the "auto load last wallet" system, but you can click on settings, then there's a button to close current wallet and open a new one. Or, press cancel when asked for the password for the first wallet, that moves you to the main screen when you can select "load from file", and you select whichever wallet you want to use.

[Ratatosk]

Thank you very much :-)

This system is not very clear, some info lines or popup text in this area could be welcome :-)

Any idea if or when it will be possible to generate new random receiving address for a same wallet, please ?
(like Bitcoin Armory wallet does it automatically when clicking on button Receive Bitcoins of a wallet, for example)

For a privacy/anonymous centric cryptocurrency, I think it's a very important and useful feature.

[cyrixcer]

Found this pic on the Monero subreddit.



https://en.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/5qpnh4/found_this_pic_on_the_bitcoin_subreddit_fixed_it/

It's really good.  A few more improvements will completely fix it.

1. Replace Transportable with (or add) a Digital category for BTC, XMR, and fiat.  Only giant stone Yap coins are not transportable, so it's moot.

1a. If leaving Transportable in, at least make the dollar faded (or cut the pic in half) to indicate the issues with moving non-trivial quantities of them.

2. Add Silver, indicate it is not Non-consumable (most is used for industry and not recovered).

3. Gold and Silver are fairly Divisible, more or less.  Bengals in South Asia, plus many denominations of gold coins throughout history.  Pieces of eight were like the Age of Exploration's Valcambi bars.   

4. Instead of (or in addition to) using the subtle faded icons for a weak property, cut the icons in half.  It's much easier to notice and intuitive for a semi-held property.

5. Change the shell pic to Nassarius gibbosulus and indicate monetized shells are both Scarce and Fungible.

Per the long-awaited sequel to the classic Shelling Out essay,

These people walked the shore not just in search of food, but also in search of a very specific set of uncommon yet authoritative objects – shells of the sea snail Nassarius gibbosulus. Once collected they were selected for size and intactness, and laboriously perforated.

Upper Paleolithic shell bead manufacturers were very selective of which size and shape of shells they chose to turn into beads: the resulting beads had “great consistency…of size and shape” compared to the natural biotic distribution of the shells.  Most variation in shell species, shape, and size was eliminated during manufacture. They were as similar in size, shape, and weight as it was possible for a collectable set of natural objects in that environment to be.

I want to try out the GUI, so the first three people to remake the image (.png please; we are not savages) with the above improvements gets 1 shiny new Monero.

Best version (my choice) gets a 1 XMR bonus.

Here is one version to your specs.

What do you mean fungible? Why bitcoin ain't but monero is?

[Millionero]

What do you mean fungible? Why bitcoin ain't but monero is?

It means every monero is exactly like every other monero.
But the same can't be said of bitcoins.  When coinbase tracks your coins and shuts your account if you sent some to a gambling site, that means some coins are different from others.
Simply being able to track coins means they can't be fungible, because different coins are used for different things, and you can tell which coins have been used for what.
Then the government would be able to prosecute you if you bought drugs or something.
If the coins were indistinguishable, that wouldn't happen.  Indistinguishable=fungible.

[MoneroMooo]

What do you mean fungible? Why bitcoin ain't but monero is?

Fungibility is the property of items to be equivalent to one another.
Basically, if I want to pay you X monero, and I offer you a choice of two outputs of the X monero, you don't have a particular reason to prefer one or the other. They are interchangeable.

Bitcoin is not really fungible because outputs have a traceable history. Monero outputs do not have an unambiguous history. Now, it's not perfect fungibility, as you can still tell whether a particular output has zero chance of having another history, or a non zero chance, but you basically can't incontrovertibly say an output comes from a particular history.

This means a third party cannot censor particular outputs based on their history without collateral damage, as some other outputs will also appear to share that history based on blockchain inspection, but will not actually have that history.

[iCEBREAKER]

That looks great!  Thanks for making it.

XMR addy plx   

What do you think about renaming it The Ascent of Money, and adding a timeline to show the progress from the dinosaur/caveman to the rocket shop/Starship Enterprise?

Also not sure why dollars aren't divisible.  Because there is nothing smaller than one cent coins?