[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[cebb]

Personally I don't see much value in a PC GUI wallet.  In order to make in-person transactions possible, in order to reach the many unbanked who have no PCs or have PCs with no Internet, you need a mobile wallet.  The main value of a PC GUI wallet is (1) online shoppers stuck in the 1990s, and (2) forcing trolls to be more creative.

There is a lot of value in a PC GUI wallet if we want to attract new users. There are lot of traders/investors out there who want to buy monero for its disruptive ring sig technology but are not willing to keep the coins on an exchange. These investors are not proficient in using command line wallet. and the .NET wallet is not reliable as well. Even transfer from one exchange to another is still not possible. Also we need to make it easier for new exchanges to list MRO. currently only poloniex is the only well known exchange to list it. we need BTER, Mintpal and Cryptsy as well.

Now why do we need new investors and exchanges who cannot even operate a command line wallet? Because we need MROs price to rise. MRO market cap may not fall much from its current value in USD/BTC but with every day passing, value of each MRO gets diluted because of majority of newly minted 24K new coins dumped everyday. This cause coins price to decline steadily.


I have seen a lot of posts in here saying that price of MRO does not matter and we are not after making a quick profit but to develop something new from scratch that will change the world. Similar posts were prevalent in Dogecoin. I am not comparing MRO with Dogecoin by any means but still there are lessons to be learned from failure the of Dogecoin.

A) No matter how involved the community is price of coin will not rise unless there is something done to absorb all the new coins in market.

B) If speculators/investors don't see value of coin rising, they simply will not buy it and without them price of coin will not rise.

Why do we need MRO price to rise? because there is little motivation to donate to bounties if the coins price falls. Lets say I buy 1000 MRO today for 4 BTC. After a week if they are worth only 3 BTC I will either hold them and forget about it or in worse case sell them at loss. But if it worth 5 BTC after a week and 6 BTC after 2 weeks. I have vested interest in coin and i would be happy to contribute 10 MRO to the bounties hoping it will further raise MRO price. Also more coders/devs will want to get involved if MRO price is on rise.

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[surfer43]

looks like the logo was decided 

https://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/monero-mro-cryptocurrency-logo-design-contest-382486

[aminorex]

I just hired somebody to do the client part of adding MRO to Mycelium the easy way, since I really don't have the time to run through an ADK learning cycle right now.  I'll do server-side stuff for it.

[darlidada]

I just hired somebody to do the client part of adding MRO to Mycelium the easy way, since I really don't have the time to run through an ADK learning cycle right now.  I'll do server-side stuff for it.

Cool! Thanks again for everything you bring to the community Aminorex.

Also, small message to the miners: it appears 10% of you are still not using the latest optimised miner. If you want a small bump in your HR, go use the code Wolf made:)

[eizh]

looks like the logo was decided  

https://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/monero-mro-cryptocurrency-logo-design-contest-382486

Yep, this wasn't what I thought would win but the group talked to advertising professionals and graphic designers and this one was a consistent top 3 choice. As one of them said, the logo that best represents a product/project best isn't necessarily the 'cool' looking one. This is money, and money gets used by a much wider demographic group than 20-something-year-old men. To quote him:

Reasons why I liked this one:

- Unique take on the "M" design
- The high contrast & predominance of the bright orange colour is eye-catching and will stand out amongst the competition
- For me, the design gives the impression of a structure resting on a solid foundation, which produces an association of strength, security & reliability
- The simplicity & sharp bold edges look modern & confident
- Will scale down well

[the_darkness]

Actually, I think keeping all of Mycelium, and just adding Monero as a new tab would be very cool, now that I think about it.  You could later on add local market with automated escrow quite easily, which would make it very easy to get monero p2p via advertisements, or do monero<->fiat in the same manner as bitcoin.

In fact, I made inquiries with the company to see if they would be interested in supporting MRO markets (and taking their fees) if I supplied client code of suitable quality.

I just hired somebody to do the client part of adding MRO to Mycelium the easy way, since I really don't have the time to run through an ADK learning cycle right now.  I'll do server-side stuff for it.

Wow you made quick work of that one. Thanks for taking charge on something that will likely really help to fuel adoption and real-world use.

[surfer43]

Wow, I am seeing a ton of orphans. Sometimes even several orphans on the same height. Looks like moneropool.com is mining lots of blocks on top of its own blocks, killing smaller pools and solo miners who have to wait for propagation to have others work on their blocks. 

We need to increase block time ASAP or say "bye" to decentralized mining.

[AlexGR]

We need to increase block time ASAP or say "bye" to decentralized mining.

And when you do that, don't increase the reward per block... too much inflation. Did I mention that already?

[eizh]

We need to increase block time ASAP or say "bye" to decentralized mining.

And when you do that, don't increase the reward per block... too much inflation. Did I mention that already?

Any block time adjustment will come with a block reward scaling to keep the emission curve the same. It's not fair to current or future users to have the rules changed after the blockchain has started. There would be a perpetual instamine stigma (for good reasons).

Inflation is a basic feature of PoW. There are plenty of other coins for the 'scarcity'-obsessed crowd (like XC, which is suddenly cutting the max supply to benefit the early adopters).

[devphp]

Yeah, maybe extending the coin supply generation a bit longer than now is a good idea. Better now than later, while the coin is still young. Make it not 80% over 4 years, but over 6 years, which is a sort of compromise and will please all - miners and investors.

Instamine stigma, hm, well, perhaps you're right. Actually 4 years is a long time, a lot of things change over the span of 2 months in the crypto currency scene

[AlexGR]

We need to increase block time ASAP or say "bye" to decentralized mining.

And when you do that, don't increase the reward per block... too much inflation. Did I mention that already?

Any block time adjustment will come with a block reward scaling to keep the emission curve the same. It's not fair to current or future users to have the rules changed after the blockchain has started. There would be a perpetual instamine stigma (for good reasons).

Inflation is a basic feature of PoW. There are plenty of other coins for the 'scarcity'-obsessed crowd (like XC, which is suddenly cutting the max supply to benefit the early adopters).

I admit I am in the scarcity-obsessed crowd and highly anti-inflationary in terms of economic philosophy. But you do have to realize that coin price will degrade if it needs 50-100 BTC per day to pull daily production off the market. And if price is degrading, the consensus is that "the coin is dying". And when the consensus builds up, people are like "fuck this" => sell => chain dumps => "it's dead" => taking a look at coinmarketcap => finding the highest ranked BCN clone => "that is successful" => buy buy buy that one => more success for that one, etc etc => establishing it as the dominant coin.

There are very strong points on why one shouldn't change something which is considered fixed (changing the rules of the game while the game is played => might turn off investors) and why they should change it if it threatens the coin with "death" (perceived death due to price degradation that catalyzes actual death).

The alternative is just to let price slide so that daily production can be absorbed with greater ease, and expect price rise when coin production will slow down after 3-4 years. With altcoins being the ADD-paradise, it seems unlikely that people will like MRO then. The rationale will be "ok, this is been around for 3-4 years with no success... why should it even interest me?". However this is a time stamped post and it will be fun if someone bumps my post (2017-8) to laugh at me.

[mistersushi]

Monero is now on minergate! First and only reliable CN pool. Join in.

Currently mining QCN on minergate.  Played with the the MRO and BCN, but the coins I mined for thosehaven't confirmed in three days.  What's the deal with that?

[damiano]

I just hired somebody to do the client part of adding MRO to Mycelium the easy way, since I really don't have the time to run through an ADK learning cycle right now.  I'll do server-side stuff for it.

Cool! Thanks again for everything you bring to the community Aminorex.

Also, small message to the miners: it appears 10% of you are still not using the latest optimised miner. If you want a small bump in your HR, go use the code Wolf made:)

Do you have a link to the miner?

[darlidada]

I just hired somebody to do the client part of adding MRO to Mycelium the easy way, since I really don't have the time to run through an ADK learning cycle right now.  I'll do server-side stuff for it.

Cool! Thanks again for everything you bring to the community Aminorex.

Also, small message to the miners: it appears 10% of you are still not using the latest optimised miner. If you want a small bump in your HR, go use the code Wolf made:)

Do you have a link to the miner?

in the op

[gusk73]

if mro wants to win the race against XC its gonna need to hurry  up

I think you're absolutely right.
For coins, time is money, who can go into the market, who is the winner!
 

[gusk73]

Looks like a good buy right now, the price will likely push up the next 24 hours.

I think you're absolutely right.
This is a very good coin, its price will rise in the future.
 

[drawingthesun]

We need to increase block time ASAP or say "bye" to decentralized mining.

And when you do that, don't increase the reward per block... too much inflation. Did I mention that already?

Any block time adjustment will come with a block reward scaling to keep the emission curve the same. It's not fair to current or future users to have the rules changed after the blockchain has started. There would be a perpetual instamine stigma (for good reasons).

Inflation is a basic feature of PoW. There are plenty of other coins for the 'scarcity'-obsessed crowd (like XC, which is suddenly cutting the max supply to benefit the early adopters).

I admit I am in the scarcity-obsessed crowd and highly anti-inflationary in terms of economic philosophy. But you do have to realize that coin price will degrade if it needs 50-100 BTC per day to pull daily production off the market. And if price is degrading, the consensus is that "the coin is dying". And when the consensus builds up, people are like "fuck this" => sell => chain dumps => "it's dead" => taking a look at coinmarketcap => finding the highest ranked BCN clone => "that is successful" => buy buy buy that one => more success for that one, etc etc => establishing it as the dominant coin.

There are very strong points on why one shouldn't change something which is considered fixed (changing the rules of the game while the game is played => might turn off investors) and why they should change it if it threatens the coin with "death" (perceived death due to price degradation that catalyzes actual death).

The alternative is just to let price slide so that daily production can be absorbed with greater ease, and expect price rise when coin production will slow down after 3-4 years. With altcoins being the ADD-paradise, it seems unlikely that people will like MRO then. The rationale will be "ok, this is been around for 3-4 years with no success... why should it even interest me?". However this is a time stamped post and it will be fun if someone bumps my post (2017-8) to laugh at me.

I agree with Alex. The emission is far too fast.

I can't see monero gaining value with the huge release as it is stands.

Supply will increase 600% in the next 48 weeks.

[eizh]

I agree with Alex. The emission is far too fast.

I can't see monero gaining value with the huge release as it is stands.

Supply will increase 600% in the next 48 weeks.

This logic doesn't check out. With the CryptoNote emission formula, the faster the emission, the faster the reduction in inflation.

If this was Bitcoin (constant reward) at the same age, supply would've increased ~1000% over the next 48 weeks (216k to 2.59 million).

If this was QuazarCoin (4x slower clone) at the same age, supply would've increased ~750% over the next 48 weeks (255k to 2.17 million).

As you can see when you do the math, (1) CryptoNote is already anti-inflationary by design and (2) a flatter emission actually draws out the inflationary phase.

Why the obsession with price per coin, anyway? What matters both for the individual and for the overall MRO market is price*amount. Price is lower, but the amount is correspondingly higher. There's always 42 Coin for those who want a high price per coin. Unfortunately, you might only own a tenth of one coin.

[smooth]

I agree with Alex. The emission is far too fast.

I can't see monero gaining value with the huge release as it is stands.

Supply will increase 600% in the next 48 weeks.

This logic doesn't check out.

The logic checks out insofar as these guys (whether they entirely realize it or not) are arguing if favor of the instamine approach of mining a lot of cheap and easy coins really fast, then (once they have theirs), slowing inflation way down to boost price.

It's not going to happen, but that's the logic behind these posts.

[eizh]

The logic checks out insofar as these guys (whether they entirely realize it or not) are arguing if favor of the instamine approach of mining a lot of cheap and easy coins really fast, then (once they have theirs), slowing inflation way down to boost price.

It's not going to happen, but that's the logic behind these posts.

For those unfamiliar with this coin's history, this was all already discussed. The devs wanted to implement a switch where all present coins had their value halved and the emission was changed to be 2x slower. This is the equivalent of having started the blockchain with a flatter emission -- the only fair way to do it while keeping the current chain. The plan was dropped because there was a backlash over 'taking half my coins away' (this line of thinking requires some numerical illiteracy ).

As I showed above, the inflation-related arguments actually favor MRO's curve because of the way the recurrence relation works. It's understandable if this is not intuitive to you guys because CryptoNote emission is so different from other altcoins. I posted some MATLAB scripts a few pages back if you want to check the numbers yourself and play with the parameters.

What we're arguing here only helps your value precisely because it screws over future buyers - i.e. not because of fundamentals but because you already got yours. This may be the flavor of the month in altcoins, but luckily this dev team is more ethical.