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Author Topic: [ANN][CRYPT] CryptCoin x11 + PoS | P2P Anonymity | 0% Premine | Commander  (Read 506528 times)
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July 27, 2014, 10:57:31 AM
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Wallet is unable to find a connection to the network.   Cry
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July 27, 2014, 11:09:32 AM
 #5242

I think that this post is a good example of what can happen if the development of the coin is not open and transparent. CRYPT has extremely secret and non-transparent development and it is probably very vulnerable to attacks like this.

Does the community still think that the secret and non-transparent development of cryptocoin anonymity features should continue?

The reason for secrecy in the initial development is because there's lots of money involved, and getting a feature "first" makes a publicity difference.

I agree that in the long run it's not beneficial.

The problems mentioned in that reddit post seems serious, btw., but they're easily mitigated by applying relatively simple changes. E.g.  split up transactions and normalize amounts combined with more volume. The example is somewhat contrived because it depends on having low enough volume passing through the mixing nodes to be able to deduce the amounts. This will still leave odd transaction amounts vulnerable (e.g. someone transferring 9.15153 will be easier to trace than someone transferring 10, because presumably the likelihood of other transactions of value 10 also passing through is going to be much higher). Implementation is also going to matter a lot since e.g. timing attacks is an issue with that kind of model - a proper version will apply random delays, and will intentionally process transactions "out of order", and make sure to interleave partial transfers from multiple transactions.

The central node issue is a bit ugly but can also be mitigated somewhat by splitting up transfers and mixing through multiple (hopefully independent) nodes (this is basically the Tor model, and is still vulnerable if an adversary controls enough of the nodes).

None of this is unfixable, and I don't think it's a major issue with taking first stabs on these implementations in private.

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July 27, 2014, 12:22:13 PM
 #5243

This was posted on Reddit yesterday:

http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/2btj6m/reasons_why_keycoin_anonymity_doesnt_work/

I think that this post is a good example of what can happen if the development of the coin is not open and transparent. CRYPT has extremely secret and non-transparent development and it is probably very vulnerable to attacks like this.

Does the community still think that the secret and non-transparent development of cryptocoin anonymity features should continue?



Don't be such a pussy. Place your bets and let the game play out.  Nobody is going to tell you the future, this a high risk/ high reward, speculative investment. Don't you understand?  If you had all the secrets answered, then we also would know the secrets. Price would be appropriate and you still Would Not Buy. I just don't understand you people. You could take a risk right now, and buy cheap coins, and be rewarded for that early risk. Or you could walk away, and never make a real decision in your life. And of course a couple other possibilities we don't have time for today, but we can explore further in a future posting.

I suspect though, from following this thread from page one, that you want this information for another purpose. Like for example if you were developing coins yourself. You would be very interested in how this sausage is made. You would likewise become more persistent as time went on, fearing you may fall too far behind existing innovatios.  Also, many more possible scenarios to be explored here.

If you are for real though, which I doubt. How do ever buy anything? I picture you car shopping, or at the deli counter. Asking about all the ingredients, week after week, coming back in the store for answers. And the girl working the counter saying to her coworker "OMG! Here comes that wierdo again". "He fuckin' drives me crazy with his questions about everything in the store, its insane". " Sshh.. Here he comes".

Take a risk pussy, take a risk.
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July 27, 2014, 12:23:44 PM
 #5244

Great price move today! Nice to see us above 20k. This is just the beginning.  Wink

Someone got a bit impatient - someone bought up to 25k (not much volume though) on Cryptsy.


I didn't do it on Cryptsy, but I did buy the .5bc up to 24k on bittrex. Yeah I can tell I was a little impatient. I'm going to be afk for a bit, and felt like I was wrestling too much to get orders filled. Got caught trying to play the spread) Still learning, but I didn't lose more shares than I've gained doing this for past week.
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July 27, 2014, 12:34:00 PM
 #5245

This was posted on Reddit yesterday:

http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/2btj6m/reasons_why_keycoin_anonymity_doesnt_work/

I think that this post is a good example of what can happen if the development of the coin is not open and transparent. CRYPT has extremely secret and non-transparent development and it is probably very vulnerable to attacks like this.

Does the community still think that the secret and non-transparent development of cryptocoin anonymity features should continue?
This is why people are switching back from KEY to CRYPT Wink
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July 27, 2014, 12:39:20 PM
 #5246

This was posted on Reddit yesterday:

http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/2btj6m/reasons_why_keycoin_anonymity_doesnt_work/

I think that this post is a good example of what can happen if the development of the coin is not open and transparent. CRYPT has extremely secret and non-transparent development and it is probably very vulnerable to attacks like this.

Does the community still think that the secret and non-transparent development of cryptocoin anonymity features should continue?



Don't be such a pussy. Place your bets and let the game play out.  Nobody is going to tell you the future, this a high risk/ high reward, speculative investment. Don't you understand?  If you had all the secrets answered, then we also would know the secrets. Price would be appropriate and you still Would Not Buy. I just don't understand you people. You could take a risk right now, and buy cheap coins, and be rewarded for that early risk. Or you could walk away, and never make a real decision in your life. And of course a couple other possibilities we don't have time for today, but we can explore further in a future posting.

I suspect though, from following this thread from page one, that you want this information for another purpose. Like for example if you were developing coins yourself. You would be very interested in how this sausage is made. You would likewise become more persistent as time went on, fearing you may fall too far behind existing innovatios.  Also, many more possible scenarios to be explored here.

If you are for real though, which I doubt. How do ever buy anything? I picture you car shopping, or at the deli counter. Asking about all the ingredients, week after week, coming back in the store for answers. And the girl working the counter saying to her coworker "OMG! Here comes that wierdo again". "He fuckin' drives me crazy with his questions about everything in the store, its insane". " Sshh.. Here he comes".

Take a risk pussy, take a risk.

Why do you assume that the only reason why are people interested in anonymity features is the speculation and trading? People may be interested in this coin for other reasons. Some people may want to USE coin that provides anonymity features and not just speculate on its price.

And no, I'm not interested in developing another anon scamcoin.

What risk should I take?



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July 27, 2014, 12:42:21 PM
 #5247

Yeah now it definitely is obvious I was impatient) But cest La vie. pretty good sell off way lower than my last purchase. But overall only slight effect on my average.
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July 28, 2014, 06:17:26 AM
 #5248

This was posted on Reddit yesterday:

http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/2btj6m/reasons_why_keycoin_anonymity_doesnt_work/

I think that this post is a good example of what can happen if the development of the coin is not open and transparent. CRYPT has extremely secret and non-transparent development and it is probably very vulnerable to attacks like this.

Does the community still think that the secret and non-transparent development of cryptocoin anonymity features should continue?



Don't be such a pussy. Place your bets and let the game play out.  Nobody is going to tell you the future, this a high risk/ high reward, speculative investment. Don't you understand?  If you had all the secrets answered, then we also would know the secrets. Price would be appropriate and you still Would Not Buy. I just don't understand you people. You could take a risk right now, and buy cheap coins, and be rewarded for that early risk. Or you could walk away, and never make a real decision in your life. And of course a couple other possibilities we don't have time for today, but we can explore further in a future posting.

I suspect though, from following this thread from page one, that you want this information for another purpose. Like for example if you were developing coins yourself. You would be very interested in how this sausage is made. You would likewise become more persistent as time went on, fearing you may fall too far behind existing innovatios.  Also, many more possible scenarios to be explored here.

If you are for real though, which I doubt. How do ever buy anything? I picture you car shopping, or at the deli counter. Asking about all the ingredients, week after week, coming back in the store for answers. And the girl working the counter saying to her coworker "OMG! Here comes that wierdo again". "He fuckin' drives me crazy with his questions about everything in the store, its insane". " Sshh.. Here he comes".

Take a risk pussy, take a risk.

Why do you assume that the only reason why are people interested in anonymity features is the speculation and trading? People may be interested in this coin for other reasons. Some people may want to USE coin that provides anonymity features and not just speculate on its price.

And no, I'm not interested in developing another anon scamcoin.

What risk should I take?





If your saying your just here to use a good anon coin, your early. Come back when its finished, and we'll tell you how good it is. As for now, again, WE ARE IN A SPECULATION STAGE!  So place your bets, or move along. You will not get the answers you seek here. You should call a psychic.
There it is.
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July 28, 2014, 10:42:36 AM
 #5249



Why do you assume that the only reason why are people interested in anonymity features is the speculation and trading? People may be interested in this coin for other reasons. Some people may want to USE coin that provides anonymity features and not just speculate on its price.

And no, I'm not interested in developing another anon scamcoin.

What risk should I take?





If your saying your just here to use a good anon coin, your early. Come back when its finished, and we'll tell you how good it is. As for now, again, WE ARE IN A SPECULATION STAGE!  So place your bets, or move along. You will not get the answers you seek here. You should call a psychic.
There it is.


This community will tell me how good the anonymity solution is? You can't be serious. This community is seriously lacking experts (software security experts, mathematicians, cryptographers etc.). And most non-expert members of this community don't have enough (or any) critical attitude.

How can you explain the fact that no one could figure out that the anonymity solution from whitepaper can't work at all? And that there was almost no technical discussion about technical aspects of anonymity features after these problems with anonymity were exposed on Reddit?





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July 28, 2014, 11:11:36 AM
 #5250

Why would you speak in such a condescending way about the members of this community. I'm certain that there are many people with tech and mathematics backgrounds who read and don't post. Vidarh seems to be very knowledgeable.

The white paper was not really a proper white paper. I gave a very rough outline of an idea. Mindfox has spoken in much more detail about what he was planning on irc. 

I've noticed that you're "gentleman" trolling both Key and Crypt threads. Why aren't you on the other anon coin threads? Cloak, Dark, Monero, XC, Conceal, etc? Plenty to choose from with much more public interest at the moment.

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July 28, 2014, 11:24:30 AM
 #5251

...
The white paper was not really a proper white paper. I gave a very rough outline of an idea. Mindfox has spoken in much more detail about what he was planning on irc.  
...

MINDFOX said @ few weeks ago that its not a whitepaper but a draft  Wink

Trust is built with consistency
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July 28, 2014, 11:49:30 AM
 #5252

...
The white paper was not really a proper white paper. I gave a very rough outline of an idea. Mindfox has spoken in much more detail about what he was planning on irc.  
...

MINDFOX said @ few weeks ago that its not a whitepaper but a draft  Wink

It is probably really a draft. But this draft was proposing non-working anonymity methods and the coin was heavily pumped because of this draft.

If the coin devs were serious about this coin, they wouldn't publish something that can't possibly work. And the reason is so simple that even non-experts can understand why it can't work at all.



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July 28, 2014, 11:54:34 AM
 #5253

Why would you speak in such a condescending way about the members of this community. I'm certain that there are many people with tech and mathematics backgrounds who read and don't post. Vidarh seems to be very knowledgeable.

The white paper was not really a proper white paper. I gave a very rough outline of an idea. Mindfox has spoken in much more detail about what he was planning on irc. 

I've noticed that you're "gentleman" trolling both Key and Crypt threads. Why aren't you on the other anon coin threads? Cloak, Dark, Monero, XC, Conceal, etc? Plenty to choose from with much more public interest at the moment.

I'm not saying that there are no members with enough knowledge. I'm just saying that there are not enough of them and/or they may not be interested enough in cryptcoin to play any active role. Did vidarh post anything about the non working anonymity feature in whitepaper? Why did some anonymous Reddit guy have to point out the problems with anonymity (and the price later crashed because of that)?



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July 28, 2014, 12:26:47 PM
 #5254

The problem is that you don't know one way or the other if the anonymity is working. Mindfox has been working on it for almost 2 months. Investors and the dev team have looked at it and are very impressed. You won't be able to give a true evaluation on whether it's solid or not until the wallet is in your hands. To say otherwise is disingenuous. It was said multiple times that the white paper was not professionally prepared and only gave a rough idea of what Mindfox had in mind. If you spent time on the irc channel, you could have spoken to him and gotten a better idea of what his plans were. We will soon see if his anon is a better solution than what others have developed. From what I have been told (by people who have seen it), it is fantastic and definitely worth the wait.   

I don't believe the sell off happened because of the anonymous Reddit group with the bias against crypt. The sell off seems to have happened because many people with a large number of coins decided to take profit. 1000% profit is a good exit zone.

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July 28, 2014, 12:49:31 PM
 #5255

The problem is that you don't know one way or the other if the anonymity is working. Mindfox has been working on it for almost 2 months. Investors and the dev team have looked at it and are very impressed. You won't be able to give a true evaluation on whether it's solid or not until the wallet is in your hands. To say otherwise is disingenuous. It was said multiple times that the white paper was not professionally prepared and only gave a rough idea of what Mindfox had in mind. If you spent time on the irc channel, you could have spoken to him and gotten a better idea of what his plans were. We will soon see if his anon is a better solution than what others have developed. From what I have been told (by people who have seen it), it is fantastic and definitely worth the wait.  

Who saw this solution? Moosa? Prom guy? Are they competent enough to judge the quality of anonymity feature? Can they have impartial opinions?

I don't believe the sell off happened because of the anonymous Reddit group with the bias against crypt. The sell off seems to have happened because many people with a large number of coins decided to take profit. 1000% profit is a good exit zone.

The post  by itself probably didn't cause the price drop. But it caused the pump to slow down or stall. And then the pumpers/whales saw that and they decided to dump (about 24h or so later). Koolio didn't reach his price targets that he had posted on Twitter (300k or something).

The same pattern can be seen in the latest KeyCoin pump. The price plummeted about 24 hours after the FUD post was posted on Reddit . Same thing happened with cryptcoin (the first drop, this rogue dev fiasco came later)



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July 28, 2014, 01:51:53 PM
 #5256

This community will tell me how good the anonymity solution is? You can't be serious. This community is seriously lacking experts (software security experts, mathematicians, cryptographers etc.). And most non-expert members of this community don't have enough (or any) critical attitude.

How can you explain the fact that no one could figure out that the anonymity solution from whitepaper can't work at all? And that there was almost no technical discussion about technical aspects of anonymity features after these problems with anonymity were exposed on Reddit?

Personally, I haven't bothered reading the whitepaper. It's not particularly interesting at this point. It's not what's going to make or break this coin. Whether or not Mindfox comes through is the first thing that matters. Assuming he does, then we can start digging into it, and providing criticism and ensure it gets improved if necessary. Assuming there are no fatal flaws that can't be rectified, then the next thing that will matter is whether nor not anyone puts in sufficient resources into marketing the coin. Frankly, marketing the coin is likely to matter far more than whether or not the anon feature is flawless.

For my part I'm not a security expert. I do have 30+ years of software experience, though, including handling security for billing systems processing millions of dollars. While I can't/won't evaluate the specifics of the cryptography, I'm certainly qualified to evaluate many "higher level" aspects of whether or not the implementation will be fit for purpose. I'm sure there are others here with relevant experience who will also be able to do at least initial assessments. If it passes initial "smell checks", then we can worry about whether there all the details are perfect.

The way I see it, this is an iterative process not least because I don't believe 100% anon is even theoretically possible.  I do believe in "sufficient anon", though, in that for every usage there's a level of anonymity that is "good enough".
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July 28, 2014, 02:12:46 PM
 #5257

This community will tell me how good the anonymity solution is? You can't be serious. This community is seriously lacking experts (software security experts, mathematicians, cryptographers etc.). And most non-expert members of this community don't have enough (or any) critical attitude.

How can you explain the fact that no one could figure out that the anonymity solution from whitepaper can't work at all? And that there was almost no technical discussion about technical aspects of anonymity features after these problems with anonymity were exposed on Reddit?

Personally, I haven't bothered reading the whitepaper. It's not particularly interesting at this point. It's not what's going to make or break this coin. Whether or not Mindfox comes through is the first thing that matters. Assuming he does, then we can start digging into it, and providing criticism and ensure it gets improved if necessary. Assuming there are no fatal flaws that can't be rectified, then the next thing that will matter is whether nor not anyone puts in sufficient resources into marketing the coin. Frankly, marketing the coin is likely to matter far more than whether or not the anon feature is flawless.

For my part I'm not a security expert. I do have 30+ years of software experience, though, including handling security for billing systems processing millions of dollars. While I can't/won't evaluate the specifics of the cryptography, I'm certainly qualified to evaluate many "higher level" aspects of whether or not the implementation will be fit for purpose. I'm sure there are others here with relevant experience who will also be able to do at least initial assessments. If it passes initial "smell checks", then we can worry about whether there all the details are perfect.

The way I see it, this is an iterative process not least because I don't believe 100% anon is even theoretically possible.  I do believe in "sufficient anon", though, in that for every usage there's a level of anonymity that is "good enough".


Good Points! Finally some actual discussions on anon and not only hating on something that has not been released!

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July 28, 2014, 02:24:12 PM
 #5258

This community will tell me how good the anonymity solution is? You can't be serious. This community is seriously lacking experts (software security experts, mathematicians, cryptographers etc.). And most non-expert members of this community don't have enough (or any) critical attitude.

How can you explain the fact that no one could figure out that the anonymity solution from whitepaper can't work at all? And that there was almost no technical discussion about technical aspects of anonymity features after these problems with anonymity were exposed on Reddit?

Personally, I haven't bothered reading the whitepaper. It's not particularly interesting at this point. It's not what's going to make or break this coin. Whether or not Mindfox comes through is the first thing that matters. Assuming he does, then we can start digging into it, and providing criticism and ensure it gets improved if necessary. Assuming there are no fatal flaws that can't be rectified, then the next thing that will matter is whether nor not anyone puts in sufficient resources into marketing the coin. Frankly, marketing the coin is likely to matter far more than whether or not the anon feature is flawless.

For my part I'm not a security expert. I do have 30+ years of software experience, though, including handling security for billing systems processing millions of dollars. While I can't/won't evaluate the specifics of the cryptography, I'm certainly qualified to evaluate many "higher level" aspects of whether or not the implementation will be fit for purpose. I'm sure there are others here with relevant experience who will also be able to do at least initial assessments. If it passes initial "smell checks", then we can worry about whether there all the details are perfect.

The way I see it, this is an iterative process not least because I don't believe 100% anon is even theoretically possible.  I do believe in "sufficient anon", though, in that for every usage there's a level of anonymity that is "good enough".


Good Points! Finally some actual discussions on anon and not only hating on something that has not been released!

I still believe we will see some unique solution here and if it is good then waiting time will be awarded

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July 28, 2014, 02:42:15 PM
 #5259


Personally, I haven't bothered reading the whitepaper. It's not particularly interesting at this point. It's not what's going to make or break this coin. Whether or not Mindfox comes through is the first thing that matters. Assuming he does, then we can start digging into it, and providing criticism and ensure it gets improved if necessary. Assuming there are no fatal flaws that can't be rectified, then the next thing that will matter is whether nor not anyone puts in sufficient resources into marketing the coin. Frankly, marketing the coin is likely to matter far more than whether or not the anon feature is flawless.

For my part I'm not a security expert. I do have 30+ years of software experience, though, including handling security for billing systems processing millions of dollars. While I can't/won't evaluate the specifics of the cryptography, I'm certainly qualified to evaluate many "higher level" aspects of whether or not the implementation will be fit for purpose. I'm sure there are others here with relevant experience who will also be able to do at least initial assessments. If it passes initial "smell checks", then we can worry about whether there all the details are perfect.

The way I see it, this is an iterative process not least because I don't believe 100% anon is even theoretically possible.  I do believe in "sufficient anon", though, in that for every usage there's a level of anonymity that is "good enough".

Thanks for the cogent answer vidarh. Glad to have you on the thread and looking forward to your opinions when the new wallet is released.

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July 28, 2014, 06:45:28 PM
 #5260

Mindfox: Would you mind popping by and giving us a progress report?,

many thanks,

CH


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