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Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 1150825 times)
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HolyPizza
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November 22, 2015, 07:54:53 PM
 #5461

As for dooglus and I, you caught us.
We are indeed the same person.  /s

You are a professional at giving people mini-heart attacks, bravo Tongue.

Sincerely,
HolyPizza
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November 22, 2015, 08:08:21 PM
 #5462

Was hoping your offer would get more traction.

Participation has increased dramatically! (from zero to one)



   That's a 100% increase...  Cheesy

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November 22, 2015, 08:29:53 PM
 #5463

Was hoping your offer would get more traction.

Participation has increased dramatically! (from zero to one)



   That's a 100% increase...  Cheesy


Percentages only apply to numbers greater than or less than 0. 100% increase of 0 is still 0.
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November 22, 2015, 09:21:01 PM
 #5464

For what it's worth I should point out that I have more than 700 coins, but they are in different wallets. I'm working on consolidating things better for a bit more transparency on how much is being staked somewhere other than JD.

Does anyone know if there is an easy way to get the clam client to send change back to the same address. I'd like the pool to have a single transparent address on the block explorer but when payouts are made the standard client will send change to a new address (at least bitcoind will do that, I assume clamd is the same?)
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November 22, 2015, 09:58:48 PM
 #5465

I have this interesting though that the digger actually might be someone from cryptsy. We all know they have some problems at the moment and the timing when they first stopped paying people kinda fits into when our whale digger starts digging. Now Iam not that smart to do this but cannot someone figure out how we could verify this, for example by tying someones address from cryptsy to address that has been dug by our whale?
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November 22, 2015, 10:11:25 PM
 #5466

I have this interesting though that the digger actually might be someone from cryptsy. We all know they have some problems at the moment and the timing when they first stopped paying people kinda fits into when our whale digger starts digging. Now Iam not that smart to do this but cannot someone figure out how we could verify this, for example by tying someones address from cryptsy to address that has been dug by our whale?

Now this is funny!  I was just having the same thought running through my mind!  In fact, it is the exact reason I checked into this thread!  Wouldn't it be something if this whole plot was thought out in the backrooms of Cryptsy? Oh, the intrigue of things!  Question:  If it were a cleverly designed plot, would it be immoral, or illegal, or just scammy?
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November 22, 2015, 10:18:43 PM
 #5467

I have this interesting though that the digger actually might be someone from cryptsy. We all know they have some problems at the moment and the timing when they first stopped paying people kinda fits into when our whale digger starts digging. Now Iam not that smart to do this but cannot someone figure out how we could verify this, for example by tying someones address from cryptsy to address that has been dug by our whale?

That does not fit at all with the MO of the addresses used.....for many reasons.
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November 22, 2015, 10:21:26 PM
 #5468

Does anyone know if there is an easy way to get the clam client to send change back to the same address.

You can put:

    change=xJDCLAMZ9rQ11tMf7JUw1Zzvjm5ShkryrU

in your clam.conf (in the same folder as the wallet.dat), then restart the client.

It will send all change to that address.

You can specify as many change= lines as you like. It will pick one at random each time you make a transaction.

You can use a different address if you like, though that one works for me. Smiley

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November 22, 2015, 10:24:03 PM
 #5469

There's too much to reply to in individual posts without spamming the thread, so it's another "monster post" I'm afraid:

[snip]

I can try to convince you of the timescales. At 2015-11-13 22:51:23 the digger dug the following addresses: [x9NXaGSz] [xA9338mM] [xPWEDmTS] [xEZKQHEU] [xPosuwLa] [xNNwmVoL] [xXL7bZ5s], all of which were funded in block 5763

How do you know the whale digger dug those particular addresses,

I can't be sure, but since they were all dug from the same initial distribution block at the same time it is overwhelmingly likely that they were dug by a single entity. The whale digger was working through the initial distribution blocks in reverse order and was working on block 5763 at that time. So it's overwhelmingly likely that he dug those addresses.

and is there a way to find which Bitcoin, Litecoin or Dogecoin addresses correspond to those clam addresses?

Yes. Just replace the CLAM address version byte with the BTC address version byte.

Specifically, for the addresses I listed:

x9NXaGSzxLHjvBbBdmeE2U8dx43Y4XWhfK = 124tgPcXgcohsoVKHJ1ZbHqriwkJchW2P3
xA9338mMFZW43AoQ6rUKpmopi21kYTtMPq = 12qQ9Fvsyr21znhXkNqfPbX3UuiXAvVmiy
xPWEDmTSwiRYb8EKebWJU8f98hwC3vcoLn = 1GCbKtcyfzwWYk8TJ7se2xNMubdxZuzsaB
xEZKQHEUbTyzxfQTD6RSdcoTgYMy8DwYsy = 17FgWQQ1KkVxvHJarcnnCSWgTS4jpeoayt
xPosuwLaxeRHYz1NGYZwDCs5eJ7gMw9tNy = 1GWF24W7gvwFWbuVv4wGn2aJRBpSusRXrM
xNNwmVoLPsRojqbweaBthv2Qt6A85xSN21 = 1F5Jscxs89wmhTW5J6ZEGjjdeyrtmAkbXK
xXL7bZ5sw9XKMt57A7QGAMXqCbNiywm1W2 = 1Q2UhgFQfS3HKVyEodmbjBF3yV5Vd8QDXE

Is there a way to get a list of all the addresses this particular whale digger has already claimed his clams from?
Is there a way to get a list of all the addresses this particular whale digger can potentially claim clams from in the future?

Not with 100% accuracy. We can use clustering tools like walletexplorer.com to find addresses which are likely in the same wallet as the already-dug addresses.

I have searched this thread, the clams website, the clams github, and the internet for a list of the Bitcoin, Litecoin and Dogecoin addresses whose snapshots were used in the clams distribution without success. Is there a list of those distribution addresses available?

I also searched the early blocks in the block explorer, but couldn't find any Bitcoin, Litecoin or Dogecoin addresses. Where are those addresses in the clams blockchain?

It's not a secret. Here's the information:

Quote
The specific blocks at which the snapshots were taken:

   BTC block 300377 (2014-05-12 12:48:17)
   LTC block 565693 (2014-05-12 13:06:31)
  DOGE block 218556 (2014-05-12 13:09:17)

All the addresses from all three of those coins received 4.6 CLAMs if they held non-dust amounts at the specified block height.

To convert from BTC/LTC/DOGE address to corresponding CLAM address, replace the version byte from the old address with CLAM's version byte.

Here's Python code that does it for me:

Code:
#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys
sys.path.append("/home/chris/Programs/python-bitcoinlib/") # from https://github.com/jgarzik/python-bitcoinlib.git
import bitcoin.base58

def to_addr(addr, magic): return bitcoin.base58.CBase58Data.from_bytes(bitcoin.base58.decode(addr)[1:-4], magic).__str__()
def to_btc(addr): return to_addr(addr, 0x00)
def to_doge(addr): return to_addr(addr, 0x1e)
def to_ltc(addr): return to_addr(addr, 0x30)
def to_clam(addr): return to_addr(addr, 0x89)

def addresses(addr):
    return '\n%s\n%s\n%s\n%s\n' % (
        '%6s: http://blockchain.info/address/%s'    % ('BTC', to_btc(addr)),
        '%6s: http://dogechain.info/address/%s'     % ('DOGE', to_doge(addr)),
        '%6s: http://block-explorer.com/address/%s' % ('LTC', to_ltc(addr)),
        '%6s: http://khashier.com/address/%s'       % ('CLAM', to_clam(addr)))

for i in sys.argv[1:]:
    print addresses(i)

Are you suggesting that Creative, BAC, and I are all the same person? Do you know how silly that makes you look?

Who is Creative ? (slip up on the dev's alt name ??)

She calls herself creativecuriosity, curiouscreativity and such like. I call her Creative for short. BAC is short for BayAreaCoins. People call me "doog" sometimes. It's short for "dooglus". I hope that clarifies any misunderstandings.

Who is who and their socks may one day be determined.. Regardless.. you guys are definitely putting on a show.

You and 42dice both like to run gambling sites and.. you have both like to play with posts and/or PM so as to cause confusion or be misleading.

Coincidence ?

I don't know who or what 42dice is. So yes, probably a coincidence. I also don't know about dash or whatever other distractions you have tried to bring into play. I make posts and send PMs. I don't know what you mean about playing with them or aiming to cause confusion. I use a single account and attempt to be as clear as possible with my communication. You should try it.

update..

Is SuperClams creativecuriosity ?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=210646

BayAreaCoins seems to think so .. LOL
Quote
User controls account linked in the reference.

Please reference the reference for my feedback.

Uh, yes! This is public knowledge.

BAC has a campaign to wrest control of the "SuperClams" account from Creative's evil grasp. Or something.

(Klye's art is NSFW.)

I think he prefers the term NSFL. The L stands for Life.

I researched answers to these two queries some more and discovered different coins have a different version byte stored in their address, which explains how a clam address can have the same private key as a bitcoin address, but both addresses will be different. Were the Bitcoin, Litecoin and Dogecoin snapshot addresses converted to clams format before they were placed in the clams blockchain? Is that why I can't find any Bitcoin, Litecoin or Dogecoin addresses in there?

The blockchain doesn't store the addresses, only the 160 bit RIPE-MD hashes of the public keys. It's effectively the address without the version byte or the checksum. So it is identical for BTC and CLAM.

The initial distribution copied the scripts directly from the BTC blockchain without modification.

So yes, you don't find any BTC addresses in the CLAM blockchain, because you don't find *any* addresses in *any* blockchain. Addresses don't exist on blockchains - they are a mirage presented by client software and block explorers to make things more readable.

dooglus i Can see Latest digger Chart

Yes:



I don't know "curious" anymore than the rest of you

While I believe you, I think I would prefer it if I didn't.

Given the choice between you and an uninvolved stranger getting rich from this digging, I think I'd prefer it happened to you.

Did you deliberately fund any addresses at all before taking the snapshot? I imagine the temptation to do so would have been pretty strong.

As for dooglus and I, you caught us.
We are indeed the same person.  /s

If you are going to break this news to me, please do it at a time when we are not in the third trimester of a parasite invasion. I've been happily living what i thought was the life of a male, and now I find I'm about to experience the horror of childbirth first hand? No thanks. I reject your reality.

Doesn't cheaper clams just mean more people can afford more to gamble with -- which in turn equals more people interested and playing??

Just trying to bring up a brighter, positive side. 

Thanks for trying, but I don't think price really matters. It's the direction in which the price is moving that matters.

No matter what the price is, I can buy $100 worth, gamble, double-up, and sell for $200. The number of CLAMs I get for that $100 is of no importance.

The direction the price moves is very important however. If the price goes down 75% in the time it takes me to double my CLAMs, I end up losing anyway.

Participation has increased dramatically! (from zero to one)


That's a 100% increase...  Cheesy

1 to 2 would be a 100% increase. 0 to 1 is an infinite increase, percentage wise.

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November 22, 2015, 10:35:38 PM
 #5470

Did you deliberately fund any addresses at all before taking the snapshot? I imagine the temptation to do so would have been pretty strong.

That is a silly question to ask. Even if a denial is made, if it was done competently, it can't ever be proven. If an honest but lawyerly answer is given about not having "deliberately funded" any addresses, it can't be known whether any of the decisions made about the snapshot were influenced by existing holdings (i.e. you happen to have a large number of outputs so you design a coin where outputs -> wealth). Furthermore anyone who did cheat in this manner probably claimed their coins already or would claim them before any fork (as the current 'whale digger' is now apparently doing).

I've made the point before that the mechanism of the pay-per-output snapshot is incredibly prone to fraud-on-demand and whether or not the fraud actually happened is sort of irrelevant. What's done is done. I just hope that no one ever uses that method again, especially now that even more of the pitfalls are well known. This coin may yet succeed in spite of the original distribution method being weak on verifiable-integrity grounds. I still don't know of any PoS coins with a better distribution method.

re. change

Thanks for the info about the config option! That should be very helpful.

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November 22, 2015, 11:21:43 PM
 #5471

WTF Last dig chart!
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November 23, 2015, 01:04:32 AM
 #5472

WTF Last dig chart!
This was expected.  Curiosity said he was going to expedite his digging to get it over with, and it looks to be over with now.
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November 23, 2015, 01:18:51 AM
Last edit: November 23, 2015, 01:31:23 AM by cjmoles
 #5473

WTF Last dig chart!
This was expected.  Curiosity said he was going to expedite his digging to get it over with, and it looks to be over with now.

Curious???  Any chance his first name is Clement?  The creature who searches the sea for his toys who gets help finding them from an insider.....HHmmm?

http://www.storyjumper.com/book/index/13078592/Clement-the-Curious-Clam#


Very fishy!
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November 23, 2015, 01:27:06 AM
 #5474

WTF Last dig chart!
This was expected.  Curiosity said he was going to expedite his digging to get it over with, and it looks to be over with now.

Well at least everyone can stop complaining that all CLAMS are on Just-Dice now.  It will be interesting to see if they migrate there over time or if some other uses for them show up.

Good Luck.
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November 23, 2015, 07:28:18 AM
 #5475

Curious???  Any chance his first name is Clement?  The creature who searches the sea for his toys who gets help finding them from an insider.....HHmmm?

http://www.storyjumper.com/book/index/13078592/Clement-the-Curious-Clam#

Very fishy!

Damn! You got me.

Knew it!

By the way, if anyone wants to buy clams OTC, let me know.

Trade straight across for Pandacoin?  That's all they're worth now.




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November 23, 2015, 07:41:21 AM
 #5476

Knew it!
Trade straight across for Pandacoin?  That's all they're worth now.

There seems to be a person or two on Poloniex who disagrees.
But, who am I to call into question the value of Pandacoin.



Did you deliberately fund any addresses at all before taking the snapshot? I imagine the temptation to do so would have been pretty strong.

No.

I expected massive amounts to be claimed and dumped shortly after launch.
So many, in fact, that the transaction fee to "cheat" would be more expensive than purchasing them at market.
Ironic and naive, but I expected a large percentage of the total supply to be claimed very shortly after launch.

In truth, that did happen to an extent; though at a rate much less than expected.
CLAM was quite cheap at AGX.io shortly after launch.

Cheaper than the transaction fee?  Likely not.
But, much cheaper than they are now.

If I could do it again, I would have made a percentage of pre-mine with which we could have issued a host of bounties.
I still despise pre-mine, but not having bounty funds made the beginning of CLAM extremely difficult.

Though, maybe my memory is flawed - the networks who DID take that route are almost all either dead or dying.
So, maybe slow and steady is a better route to take.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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November 23, 2015, 08:10:41 AM
Last edit: November 23, 2015, 08:15:45 PM by cjmoles
 #5477

Knew it!
Trade straight across for Pandacoin?  That's all they're worth now.

There seems to be a person or two on Poloniex who disagrees.
But, who am I to call into question the value of Pandacoin.



Just teasing.  I know they'll come back.  I just got caught pretty good in the crash.  I thought I was being smart and bought a few hundred at 0.011+ and loaned them out on polo (I was going to tuck them away for staking after I increased my equity--interest rates were at 04.5%!) just before the big dump.  I got them stuck in a loan and all I could do was watch my equity dwindle while they crashed.  I tried supplying buy support on the way down to average out my losses but it just kept crashing....it sucked!  I'm just a little butt hurt....that's all!  
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November 23, 2015, 12:30:56 PM
 #5478

Curious???  Any chance his first name is Clement?  The creature who searches the sea for his toys who gets help finding them from an insider.....HHmmm?

http://www.storyjumper.com/book/index/13078592/Clement-the-Curious-Clam#

Very fishy!

Damn! You got me.

By the way, if anyone wants to buy clams OTC, let me know.

I probably missed some part in this fast going thread but the last posts sound like you might be the digger? Or is he still unknown and avoided the community for some reason?

Please ALWAYS contact me through bitcointalk pm before sending someone coins.
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November 23, 2015, 01:21:48 PM
 #5479

Curious???  Any chance his first name is Clement?  The creature who searches the sea for his toys who gets help finding them from an insider.....HHmmm?

http://www.storyjumper.com/book/index/13078592/Clement-the-Curious-Clam#

Very fishy!

Damn! You got me.

By the way, if anyone wants to buy clams OTC, let me know.

I probably missed some part in this fast going thread but the last posts sound like you might be the digger? Or is he still unknown and avoided the community for some reason?

curious confessed to being the digger.
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November 23, 2015, 01:29:53 PM
 #5480

Just to say something about SuperClam & Dooglus I was probably the last miner to use the multipool or whatever it was called, SuperClam told me that I was virtually solo mining and as such had little chance of getting

anything for my effort and sent me 50 clams for my support. I gave 10 to charity, 10 to stepson and have traded & staked my way to 250 plus Clams. As things go I can't say a bad word about SuperClam or Dooglus who

have given so much to this project. Dooglus was full of useful tech info well before he relaunched JD. I find it rather distasteful to see peps that have only come on board after the relaunch of JD question there integrity.

You may present whatever conspiracy theory you chose to believe. I for one will give them the benefit of the doubt and say that none of us are perfect and the best laid plans of mice and men.... you know the rest

Jon Wink

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