rpietila Altcoin Observer

[umairsaleem010]

i dont own a single btc ripetile you own btc since 2011 its the born year.i think of btc.. so how much btc you have..?and you feel lucky your self to own that btc..

[dga]

8 ) innovative proof-of-work seems GPU and ASIC resistant

Let's just quietly remove that one from the list before the post looks foolish in a few months.  I haven't paid enough attention to the rest of the currency to comment, so I'll keep my mouth shut there.

I guarantee you:  This is not a "resistant" algorithm.  It has some speedbumps, and they're relatively nice speedbumps, but there's nothing harder in there than there is for designing custom hardware for attacking RSA or other large-number systems.

It's GPUable - again, with difficulty, and the speedbumps are enough to keep a run-of-the-mill developer out of it for a while - but someone like Claymore or C&C could take this one apart in a few weeks.

cf my posts in that thread:
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=713538.msg8159131#msg8159131
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=713538.msg8159722#msg8159722

(I'm  not convinced this should be a major selling point in the first place, though, so perhaps it's better to find a good point to replace it.

[iCEBREAKER]

- How many devs? Who?
- When launched?
- How exactly is emission schedule?
- What algo?
- Quotes from AnonyMint posts?

-catia is main XCN dev; s/he was up to the hard work of implementing mini-blockchains and still cranking out new builds
-launched July 27, testnetted for a month before that
-emission

- Block time: 1 per minute
- Block reward: changes every block (half life of 10 years)
- Max block size: changes every block (100 block average * 2)
- Difficulty adjustment: changes every block (1000 block filter)
- Coin supply: 2^64-1 units (1.84 billion coins, 10 dec places)

- algo is M7 (http://cryptonite.info/wiki/index.php?title=M7_PoW)
- Anonymint on XCN scaling:

Scaling up to 6 billion people and micro transactions (more frequent transactions) might present a scaling problem. I've looked at Lamport signatures schemes that can verify 100,000+ transactions per second on a single i7 cpu. Since verifying nodes tend to be pools with considerably more resources (amortized over a large amount of hashrate), then a 10 - 100 cpu farm (or a Tilera 64 core cpu) is not unfathomable without destroying decentralization of pools.

Long-term the solution is simple. An ASIC for verification will scale sufficiently to 6 billion and micro transactions.

In short, no problem! Mini-block chain addresses the problem of block chain size and its impact on decentralization of mining. Cryptonite does not include anonymity however.

I like the mini-block chain design in Cryptonite (not Cryptonote). I helped analyze and comment on it, so I've been following it for some months. Their effort lacks anonymity and other things I like. One-time ring signatures appear to be fundamentally incompatible with it.

[rpietila]

What is the fully diluted market cap at present?

(18.4 billion * coin price)

[Este Nuno]

If the general consensus is that blockchain size is basically a non-issue, why should we think this is anything other than a typical over exuberant run up over novel tech that doesn't really solve any real problems?

[iCEBREAKER]

What is the fully diluted market cap at present?

(18.4 billion * coin price)

It's 1.84 billion total.  Half mined after 10 years.  I don't feel including the 2nd half is important, but understand you may be thinking very long-term.

BTC0.0000668 * 1840000000 XCN = BTC122,912

[illodin]

If the general consensus is that blockchain size is basically a non-issue, why should we think this is anything other than a typical over exuberant run up over novel tech that doesn't really solve any real problems?

This is what I was wondering myself as well. 

[binaryFate]

What is the fully diluted market cap at present?

(18.4 billion * coin price)

It's 1.84 billion total.  Half mined after 10 years.  I don't feel including the 2nd half is important, but understand you may be thinking very long-term.

BTC0.0000668 * 1840000000 XCN = BTC122,912

Largely overvalued because the importance of the issue it mitigates is overestimated.

[digicoin]

Cryptonite whitepaper was discussed here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=195275.0

[rpietila]

What is the fully diluted market cap at present?

(18.4 billion * coin price)

It's 1.84 billion total.  Half mined after 10 years.  I don't feel including the 2nd half is important, but understand you may be thinking very long-term.

BTC0.0000668 * 1840000000 XCN = BTC122,912

Okay even if we include the 10 years only, BTC60k sounds a little steep, about the price of Monero.

[Este Nuno]

What is the fully diluted market cap at present?

(18.4 billion * coin price)

It's 1.84 billion total.  Half mined after 10 years.  I don't feel including the 2nd half is important, but understand you may be thinking very long-term.

BTC0.0000668 * 1840000000 XCN = BTC122,912

Okay even if we include the 10 years only, BTC60k sounds a little steep, about the price of Monero.

How would you even sell this to regular people? What do you say? "It's like Bitcoin but it takes less space on your hard drive if you decide to actually download the blockchain."? Is that the elevator pitch? At least with XMR you can tell the average person that the FBI/NSA ect can easily tell what you're buying with Bitcoin and not so easily with XMR.

I don't mean to sound too negative here or disparage new technology. But this market never ceases to amaze me with it's hype.

[Jungian]

What is the fully diluted market cap at present?

(18.4 billion * coin price)

It's 1.84 billion total.  Half mined after 10 years.  I don't feel including the 2nd half is important, but understand you may be thinking very long-term.

BTC0.0000668 * 1840000000 XCN = BTC122,912

Okay even if we include the 10 years only, BTC60k sounds a little steep, about the price of Monero.

How would you even sell this to regular people? What do you say? "It's like Bitcoin but it takes less space on your hard drive if you decide to actually download the blockchain."? Is that the elevator pitch? At least with XMR you can tell the average person that the FBI/NSA ect can easily tell what you're buying with Bitcoin and not so easily with XMR.

I don't mean to sound too negative here or disparage new technology. But this market never ceases to amaze me with it's hype.

Yeah, I'll say it's a hard sell to anyone other then the small percentage of cryptoenthusiasts who looks really look at the deep technical aspects and the future problem they may hold. The lack of anonymity is already a very growing concern among even the bigger BTC-crowd and that will only grow until a good enough solution is presented. The blockchain size is not a really a huge concern yet.

But other than that, I'm still using leftover CPU-power to mine it. The problem will have to be addressed eventually one way or another. It's just that I think BTC will solve it without a need for being taken over by an alt coin..

[iCEBREAKER]

What is the fully diluted market cap at present?

(18.4 billion * coin price)

It's 1.84 billion total.  Half mined after 10 years.  I don't feel including the 2nd half is important, but understand you may be thinking very long-term.

BTC0.0000668 * 1840000000 XCN = BTC122,912

Okay even if we include the 10 years only, BTC60k sounds a little steep, about the price of Monero.

Yes, the price is more than a little steep.  The market understands the potential of XCN and, as with Monero, places a premium on such disruptive innovation's unholy amounts of potential.

XMR and XCN are the Napa Cab and Chard of altcoins (Bitcoin being First Growth Bordeaux).  You want the quality, you gotta pay for it.  Otherwise, stick with PlonkCoins.

Remember, AnonyMint says XCN's mini-blockchains are the best tech which may scale to Visa levels available.

So that's two (albeit related) Holy Grails for XCN: 1) ultimate prunability and 2) ultimate scalability.

XCN is not in competition with XMR.  They are complementary, as each is the best of class on their own side of the public/private money divide.

[binaryFate]

Yes, the price is more than a little steep.  The market understands the potential of XCN and, as with Monero, places a premium on such disruptive innovation's unholy amounts of potential.

Sorry, but the mini-blockchain is not really a holy grail innovation. As said already, it is solving a "problem" many consider a non-problem. Furthermore, this idea has been in the air (= discussed at length) for a looooong time already.

So I don't think it is fair to put it at the same level as the cryptonote protocole which came by surprise in 2014 and is pretty much the only ground-breaking tech we've seen since bitcoin.
(I love to tell people that in terms of disruption, bitcoin is the only thing like internet since internet; now I got a new line: cryptonote is the only thing like bitcoin since bitcoin).

[Este Nuno]

What is the fully diluted market cap at present?

(18.4 billion * coin price)

It's 1.84 billion total.  Half mined after 10 years.  I don't feel including the 2nd half is important, but understand you may be thinking very long-term.

BTC0.0000668 * 1840000000 XCN = BTC122,912

Okay even if we include the 10 years only, BTC60k sounds a little steep, about the price of Monero.

Yes, the price is more than a little steep.  The market understands the potential of XCN and, as with Monero, places a premium on such disruptive innovation's unholy amounts of potential.

XMR and XCN are the Napa Cab and Chard of altcoins (Bitcoin being First Growth Bordeaux).  You want the quality, you gotta pay for it.  Otherwise, stick with PlonkCoins.

Remember, AnonyMint says XCN's mini-blockchains are the best tech which may scale to Visa levels available.

So that's two (albeit related) Holy Grails for XCN: 1) ultimate prunability and 2) ultimate scalability.

XCN is not in competition with XMR.  They are complementary, as each is the best of class on their own side of the public/private money divide.

Tailored sales pitch for rpietila:

1) Start with some hyperbolic upside talk.
2) Wine comparisons.(nice, someone knows his customer )
3) Obligatory AnonyMint reference.
4) Make sure not to step on any XMR toes while making it clear that both currencies are the best thing since sliced bread.

Even if rpietila doesn't buy any XCN I think he should offer you a job as Head of Sales at Malla.

[digicoin]

Bitfreak says Bitcoin core devs ban dust transactions in Bitcoin because they makes blockchain bloated. Such ban is not really good for microtransactions. However, dust transactions are never an issue in Cryptonite

[iCEBREAKER]

Tailored sales pitch for rpietila:

1) Start with some hyperbolic upside talk.
2) Wine comparisons.(nice, someone knows his customer )
3) Obligatory AnonyMint reference.
4) Make sure not to step on any XMR toes while making it clear that both currencies are the best thing since sliced bread.

Even if rpietila doesn't buy any XCN I think he should offer you a job as Head of Sales at Malla.

As a fellow astute gentleman of the Bitcoin nobility, I feel a kinship with RP.

I noticed it as we came up to speed on Monero together.

Upon discovering Monero has a new baby cousin in the form of Cryptonite, I felt it wise to let him (and our fellow Altcoin Observers) know more about it.

Please note, I selfishly accumulated until someone else was the first to mention XCN here.  But once the crypto-cat gets out of the bag, it's time to have a nice discussion about the particulars.

And yes, I'd love to visit Malla.  During the summer.   

[Lohoris]

The stated purpose of bitcoin was to provide a method of internet payment that was fast cheap easy safe etc.. Some people thought that it was also a safe way to hide illegal payments from governments, and loved it for that perceived quality.  Those people (and presumably most readers of this thread) are now realizing that it never was.

The purpose of bitcoin is to have a decentralised currency.
If you add centralization it is no longer decentralised (!!), hence it's a meaningless crap.

A tainted-bitcoins database would only kill that use of bitcoin for good. Cashiers would surely comply and check that database if it was automatic, and/or if they could be penalized for failure to do so (if only by having their own coins listed, and hence made worthless). 

It would no longer be a currency at all, since it wouldn't be fungible anymore.

[Lohoris]

8 ) innovative proof-of-work seems GPU and ASIC resistant

Let's just quietly remove that one from the list before the post looks foolish in a few months.

+1

The whole "gpu/asic-resistance" has always been a way to let whiny kids "play miner" with their dad's hardware, since they couldn't afford to do that with Bitcoin anymore.
Any coin who picks an algo for this purpose is automatically crap to me, since it's clearly not intended for security, but to make whiny kids happy.

That being said, I'm really concerned by POW regardless of the algorithm, so I'm kind of biased against any POW coin (except Bitcoin, of course).

[bigj]

6) mini-blockchain radically improves BTC scalability (Holy Grail of pruning)

Nice theory! +1
But: Is this new piece of technology really relevant for practitioners (meaning no-tech guys / real-world dudes)?