rpietila Altcoin Observer

[Gentso1]

BitsharesX is going nuts by the way, almost over 100 mil marketcap at the moment.. http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/

Strange thing is that they are only traded at chinese exchanges (Poloniex was added few days ago I think).

On its way to becoming possibly the biggest disaster in crypto history.

Keep clear of the damage when the time comes.

Can you explain the reasons why you think so?

Because i believe their pegged assets feature is extremely unsound, and will very likely lead to a massive implosion. The bigger the capitalization involved the worse the damage will be, and it seems to be getting quite large.

EDIT: That plus the legal risk already mentioned, although either could make the other more likely. Again, a very dangerous situation.



 

Can you be more specific than "extremely unsound"?  The legal risk I understand.

[smooth]

BitsharesX is going nuts by the way, almost over 100 mil marketcap at the moment.. http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/

Strange thing is that they are only traded at chinese exchanges (Poloniex was added few days ago I think).

On its way to becoming possibly the biggest disaster in crypto history.

Keep clear of the damage when the time comes.

Can you explain the reasons why you think so?

Because i believe their pegged assets feature is extremely unsound, and will very likely lead to a massive implosion. The bigger the capitalization involved the worse the damage will be, and it seems to be getting quite large.

EDIT: That plus the legal risk already mentioned, although either could make the other more likely. Again, a very dangerous situation.



 

Can you be more specific than "extremely unsound"?  The legal risk I understand.

I will let others elaborate. If it hasn't been explained I will write it up at some point but I don't have time right now.

[brekyrself]

BitsharesX is going nuts by the way, almost over 100 mil marketcap at the moment.. http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/

Strange thing is that they are only traded at chinese exchanges (Poloniex was added few days ago I think).

On its way to becoming possibly the biggest disaster in crypto history.

Keep clear of the damage when the time comes.

Can you explain the reasons why you think so?

Because i believe their pegged assets feature is extremely unsound, and will very likely lead to a massive implosion. The bigger the capitalization involved the worse the damage will be, and it seems to be getting quite large.

EDIT: That plus the legal risk already mentioned, although either could make the other more likely. Again, a very dangerous situation.



 

What is the legal risk for users?  Invictus only coded the software, a company in Hong Kong actually launched it until enough delegates around the world came online.

[jl777]

I stopped reading the "Whitepaper" after the word PIRATE occured, make it more technical and serious if u want serious feedback.

And i also consider all PoW -> PoS coins which are mined after 1 week or so and then PoS only as attempts to concentrate the biggest share of coins into the hands of the developers. Especially when coins are launched without features that get magically added after the PoW phase is over.

Thats my humble opinion, and i wonder why you don´t develop it for Bitcoin directly.


However, i have a technical question for you.
In peercoin sunny king uses the PoW blocks to make stake modifiers. He does this to secure certain code in the the staking kernel: https://github.com/ppcoin/ppcoin/blob/master/src/kernel.cpp#L337

The PPC PoS/PoW system if PoW isn´t active and has a reasonable high hashrate (which peercoin does) is vulnerable to the stake burn-through vulnerability: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131901.0

Care to explain the technical design decision in bitcoin dark?




PS: Post may sound harsh but is in no way meant personal.

I did not join the coin until a week after it was launched, it was almost to the end of the PoW phase. The technical design decisions were made by the creators of the coin and they forked blackcoin.

Now whatever vulnerability blackcoin algo has, bitcoindark currently has, but the BTCD blockchain will only be used to validate BTCD teleports. BTC or XMR teleports will use their respective blockchains and the BTCD blockchain is not involved in it at all.

I am not taking it personal, at least you are not accusing me of using a sockpuppet! that is personal

[smooth]

BitsharesX is going nuts by the way, almost over 100 mil marketcap at the moment.. http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/

Strange thing is that they are only traded at chinese exchanges (Poloniex was added few days ago I think).

On its way to becoming possibly the biggest disaster in crypto history.

Keep clear of the damage when the time comes.

Can you explain the reasons why you think so?

Because i believe their pegged assets feature is extremely unsound, and will very likely lead to a massive implosion. The bigger the capitalization involved the worse the damage will be, and it seems to be getting quite large.

EDIT: That plus the legal risk already mentioned, although either could make the other more likely. Again, a very dangerous situation.



 

What is the legal risk for users?  Invictus only coded the software, a company in Hong Kong actually launched it until enough delegates around the world came online.

The legal risk applies indirectly to users. If developers are prevented by legal action from continuing their work, while the coin itself being somewhat decentralized might in some sense survive, it is very unlikely it can retain its value at this level of maturity without the developers behind it.

[jl777]

jl777's darkpaper may be concealing a wonderful innovation in privacy.  I haven't read it well enough to discard it out of hand.  But it if it is in there, it is well hidden.  I am not the dimmest bulb in the pack, but my cursory reading didn't identify anything useful.  It's always possible that garden-path phenomena cause me to mis-classify innovations which don't conform to conventional models, but usually the lack of a rigorous framework spells disaster for crypto.  There's a lot of crack-pot and snake-oil crypto which has floated out to sea, and differentiating yourself from it to the expert community requires communicating to them in a language they understand, and can reason about clearly.

...even I can spot a big development in the crypto space when I see one. Teleporting coins using the BTCD network and making them 'dark' is a MAJOR breakthrough. I'm really hoping ... brainiacs try and pull apart jl777's teleporting concept... a lot of things will change in the crypto world, and fast. All coins can truly be anonymous ... that's BIG news!

I'm very keen to digest the peer review on teleporting!

"kennyP" looks like a sock puppet.  Stylometrics read "jl777".  James, you may believe strongly in your ideas, but if you are resorting to deceptions to promote them, you're undermining yourself.  This is a suspicion, not an accusation.  It is a suspicion based primarily on typical forum activity, not on your specific character or behaviour.

The Altcoin Observer thread is considerably above most altcoin threads, in its median talent, but very few of the participants are skilled in information theory or cryptography.  Skills are not cheap to command.  If you want someone to donate their valuable time to you, try to condense the case that your material has substance to it into a compact form.  You might do better to approach community members who have demonstrated specifically technical skills and a willingness and ability to contribute critical analysis of crypto protocols to anonymity projects.

I was beginning to wonder if my post was somehow invisible

99% of all altcoin development is scamming.  It takes strong evidence to overcome those priors.  The characteristics of BTCD are typical of scams.  You can expect that it will be difficult to overcome this situation.  Paying more attention to scams just feeds the scammers, so until you differentiate yourself from scams, expect to be deprived of attention.

...with all the things I put into the Teleport system, just teleporting BTC should be quite private.

Putting in lots of things is not generally a sound approach in cryptography.  The attack surface becomes quite large.

You clearly dont know me very well to suspect that I would use a sockpuppet. For you to apply generalized forum behavior to me indicates lack of time to research what I have done and how I have done it, so I wont take offense. I waited patiently for there to be any comment on my initial post. kennyP just happed to be the first one to post anything.

Now I did not invent any new crypto algo, I made a system that provides a LOT more privacy than any other system that I know of. I am asking for help, I am not trying to sell anything. I do not know how to make a fancy whitepaper, that is why it is called darkpaper and has pirates. I am a simple C programmer. I try to use common sense. If I did not invent a new crypto algo and instead came up with a system, then please educate me on how to apply rigorous methodology to this. I have tried to come up with a mathematical model, but other than the anon set being the N clonings during the clonesmear period for the receiver and N*T clonings where T is the time elapsed since cloning for the sender, I am not smart enough to make such a model. Without a mathematical model I dont think it is possible to apply rigorous analysis. I am working with an ivy league math professor to create such a model, it is clearly beyond me to make a math equation(s) for the system I made.

When you have a specific issue about teleport that I can actually address, then I will respond. But for you to be just using generalities is a bit disappointing. Your statements look like FUD. This is a suspicion, not an accusation.  It is a suspicion based primarily on typical forum activity, not on your specific character or behaviour.

You are saying that having a single "thing" is the best approach in crypto because it has the smallest surface. Do you have any proof about this that it is always the case? Is there any chance at all that in some cases having two "things" is not better? If not, I need to go tell everybody to immediately disable all 2FA as it has twice the attack surface and is not the best approach to securing their accounts.

You see? The danger with generalities is that they are always counterexamples that disprove it. [I know, that was a generality too] So, one he one hand you dont like what I have done because I have no rigorous proof, but you use generalities as the main reason.

Again, please take no offense at my words, I am just responding to you based on typical forum behavior

James

[Gentso1]

BitsharesX is going nuts by the way, almost over 100 mil marketcap at the moment.. http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/

Strange thing is that they are only traded at chinese exchanges (Poloniex was added few days ago I think).

On its way to becoming possibly the biggest disaster in crypto history.

Keep clear of the damage when the time comes.

Can you explain the reasons why you think so?

Because i believe their pegged assets feature is extremely unsound, and will very likely lead to a massive implosion. The bigger the capitalization involved the worse the damage will be, and it seems to be getting quite large.

EDIT: That plus the legal risk already mentioned, although either could make the other more likely. Again, a very dangerous situation.



 

What is the legal risk for users?  Invictus only coded the software, a company in Hong Kong actually launched it until enough delegates around the world came online.

The legal risk applies indirectly to users. If developers are prevented by legal action from continuing their work, while the coin itself being somewhat decentralized might in some sense survive, it is very unlikely it can retain its value at this level of maturity without the developers behind it.

The legal risk is the part I am most worried about. Just the fact that a asset that is pegged to the usd even though it is called bitUSD makes me slightly nervous. The team behind the project has been very active and seems to be bright. They are like proud parents waiting for a child to take it's first steps but because of market forces it is going from walking to jogging very quickly. It is both exciting and scary that the market cap has grown at such a pace but if their tech is sound(I believe it is) litecoin's market cap will be passed in one months time....

just my .000002 btsx.

[jl777]

BitsharesX is going nuts by the way, almost over 100 mil marketcap at the moment.. http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/

Strange thing is that they are only traded at chinese exchanges (Poloniex was added few days ago I think).

On its way to becoming possibly the biggest disaster in crypto history.

Keep clear of the damage when the time comes.

Can you explain the reasons why you think so?

Because i believe their pegged assets feature is extremely unsound, and will very likely lead to a massive implosion. The bigger the capitalization involved the worse the damage will be, and it seems to be getting quite large.

EDIT: That plus the legal risk already mentioned, although either could make the other more likely. Again, a very dangerous situation.



 

What is the legal risk for users?  Invictus only coded the software, a company in Hong Kong actually launched it until enough delegates around the world came online.

The legal risk applies indirectly to users. If developers are prevented by legal action from continuing their work, while the coin itself being somewhat decentralized might in some sense survive, it is very unlikely it can retain its value at this level of maturity without the developers behind it.

I was discussing the btsx system with some of their people when they started a thread in the NXT forum. From what I could tell, there is NOTHING that maintains the peg. It is a holographic peg. It is there, but only because both buyers and sellers agree that it is there. Also, a critical factor is that there is a 2:1 collateral, which might be ok outside of crypto, but how often do we see a crypto go below 50% of its ATH?

Yes, always! This always happens. Which means btsx is a timebomb. As soon as any meaningful percentage of the market believes the pegs created at the highest price points are about to be liquidated (~40% price drop?), then selling start, liquidations start and this creates a downward pressure on price. This in turn makes the  next tier of pegs liquidated, which lowers the price more, etc. So the higher btsx goes, the bigger the disaster. This is my assessment.

However, I also predicted that at first btsx will be an amazing success. this is because the IPO funds are used to prop up the price. And sure enough when it was about 30% below the ATH, it magically started going up again. This is not sustainable as the more popular it gets, the more money comes in and the IPO funds (not sure how much they have) will at some point not be able to reverse a downtrend at the -30% mark.

Just my unscientific intuitive view of the situation

James

P.S. the btsx guys answer was that this was an experiment to see if their pegging system works! An experiment with other people's million's of dollars. seems a bit irresponsible to me, especially the way they market it as being so solid.

[aminorex]

I am not taking it personal, at least you are not accusing me of using a sockpuppet! that is personal

It's reasonable to consider my comment accusatory.  But it was a justifiable comment on appearances.  Appearances can be deceiving.  
How can I comment on the appearance without giving rising to an accusatory inference?  I mean that question honestly.  
I have no desire to make any erroneous accusation, or allow one to be inferred.  But I won't allow political correctness to restrain me
from observing what seems prominent, and perhaps important.

On reflection I think your darkpaper is more like a business process document, describing a workflow, than it is like a cryptographic protocol.
Judging it by the criteria of the latter may be a mistake.  Its language is confusing, in that way.

You might find it helpful to edit the darkpaper a bit.  Begin with an explanation of what you are going to say.  Say it.  Then tell the reader what they just read.

 

[jl777]

I am not taking it personal, at least you are not accusing me of using a sockpuppet! that is personal

It's reasonable to consider my comment accusatory.  But it was a justifiable comment on appearances.  Appearances can be deceiving.  
How can I comment on the appearance without giving rising to an accusatory inference?  I mean that question honestly.  
I have no desire to make any erroneous accusation, or allow one to be inferred.  But I won't allow political correctness to restrain me
from observing what seems prominent, and perhaps important.

On reflection I think your darkpaper is more like a business process document, describing a workflow, than it is like a cryptographic protocol.
Judging it by the criteria of the latter may be a mistake.  Its language is confusing, in that way.

You might find it helpful to edit the darkpaper a bit.  Begin with an explanation of what you are going to say.  Say it.  Then tell the reader what they just read.

 

If you are not liking DarkPaper you should have seen the rough draft I sent to the professional copywriter who did a lot of editing. I am sorry, I am not technical writer and also not a scholar. I am a generalist, I do have common sense and I can write C code.

I cannot do this alone. I am not sure why you are expecting me to be able to do everything myself.

Maybe after I am done with all the code that needs to be done for Teleport and the projects after, I can revisit the DarkPaper. I am able to offer funds for people to contribute, so I am not asking for free labor. I had hoped to find the appropriate braniacs here...

James

[cAPSLOCK]

Just a note.  I am converting 80% of my BTSX distribution to XMR here at .00009490/.00392.  I hold negligible amount of any alt besides XMR at this point, and for the most part have only dabbled in a few.  Protoshares caught my attention about a year ago, and it is interesting to see the BTS project mature, but I am dubious of it's stability here.

It will be interesting to see if my timing is good.  I don't usually publish my trades publicly, but thought it would be fun.

It is hard to say what is happening with BTSX though...

[klee]

BitsharesX is going nuts by the way, almost over 100 mil marketcap at the moment.. http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/

Strange thing is that they are only traded at chinese exchanges (Poloniex was added few days ago I think).

On its way to becoming possibly the biggest disaster in crypto history.

Keep clear of the damage when the time comes.

Can you explain the reasons why you think so?

Because i believe their pegged assets feature is extremely unsound, and will very likely lead to a massive implosion. The bigger the capitalization involved the worse the damage will be, and it seems to be getting quite large.

EDIT: That plus the legal risk already mentioned, although either could make the other more likely. Again, a very dangerous situation.



 

Can you be more specific than "extremely unsound"?  The legal risk I understand.

I will let others elaborate. If it hasn't been explained I will write it up at some point but I don't have time right now.

@Gentso1: Anonymint & Cunicula criticised this heavily - check for bytemaster's post and bitshares in the forum.

[aminorex]

I cannot do this alone. I am not sure why you are expecting me to be able to do everything myself.

In order to gain the support you need, communicating your vision must become your first priority.  If you can do it without cultivating support, go straight to code.  But if you are feeling overburdened, prioritizing communication may be the best course.

As penance for the inferred accusation made earlier, I will add a more thorough reading of the darkpaper to my task queue, no promises.   If I can make sense of it, I may be able to help you communicate your vision more succinctly and clearly.  Anything further on this subject will be in PM.

[aminorex]

Just a note.  I am converting 80% of my BTSX distribution to XMR here at .00009490/.00392.  I hold negligible amount of any alt besides XMR at this point, and for the most part have only dabbled in a few.  Protoshares caught my attention about a year ago, and it is interesting to see the BTS project mature, but I am dubious of it's stability here.

It will be interesting to see if my timing is good.  I don't usually publish my trades publicly, but thought it would be fun.

It is hard to say what is happening with BTSX though...

I think it's extremely good timing, FWIW.

[klee]

P.S. the btsx guys answer was that this was an experiment to see if their pegging system works! An experiment with other people's million's of dollars. seems a bit irresponsible to me, especially the way they market it as being so solid.

It reminds me of CfBCNext's comment on NXT and Gavin's disclaimer on BTC.

Out of the dozens assets you issued @NXT AE aren't there any 'experiments'?

That said I have no BTSX because I agree it is a timebomb..

[Gentso1]

BitsharesX is going nuts by the way, almost over 100 mil marketcap at the moment.. http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/

Strange thing is that they are only traded at chinese exchanges (Poloniex was added few days ago I think).

On its way to becoming possibly the biggest disaster in crypto history.

Keep clear of the damage when the time comes.

Can you explain the reasons why you think so?

Because i believe their pegged assets feature is extremely unsound, and will very likely lead to a massive implosion. The bigger the capitalization involved the worse the damage will be, and it seems to be getting quite large.

EDIT: That plus the legal risk already mentioned, although either could make the other more likely. Again, a very dangerous situation.



 

What is the legal risk for users?  Invictus only coded the software, a company in Hong Kong actually launched it until enough delegates around the world came online.

The legal risk applies indirectly to users. If developers are prevented by legal action from continuing their work, while the coin itself being somewhat decentralized might in some sense survive, it is very unlikely it can retain its value at this level of maturity without the developers behind it.

I was discussing the btsx system with some of their people when they started a thread in the NXT forum. From what I could tell, there is NOTHING that maintains the peg. It is a holographic peg. It is there, but only because both buyers and sellers agree that it is there. Also, a critical factor is that there is a 2:1 collateral, which might be ok outside of crypto, but how often do we see a crypto go below 50% of its ATH?

Yes, always! This always happens. Which means btsx is a timebomb. As soon as any meaningful percentage of the market believes the pegs created at the highest price points are about to be liquidated (~40% price drop?), then selling start, liquidations start and this creates a downward pressure on price. This in turn makes the  next tier of pegs liquidated, which lowers the price more, etc. So the higher btsx goes, the bigger the disaster. This is my assessment.

However, I also predicted that at first btsx will be an amazing success. this is because the IPO funds are used to prop up the price. And sure enough when it was about 30% below the ATH, it magically started going up again. This is not sustainable as the more popular it gets, the more money comes in and the IPO funds (not sure how much they have) will at some point not be able to reverse a downtrend at the -30% mark.

Just my unscientific intuitive view of the situation

James

P.S. the btsx guys answer was that this was an experiment to see if their pegging system works! An experiment with other people's million's of dollars. seems a bit irresponsible to me, especially the way they market it as being so solid.

Right now this is something that is being discussed and you have, I feel you have a good point. A feed is either manually entered or some delegates are starting to use a script that grabs the price. The goal I believe is that we will be forex and that their will be no reason or need to reach out to another market for a price check. As time passes and with some adoption merchants could accept a bitUSD and know they are getting basically a dollar. Traders could trade alts and commodities all on one exchange and when they are waiting to strike put their funds into a bitUSD and reduce the risk of volatility. Whats the difference between a bitstamp dollar, a mt gox dollar, and a bitUSD. On one hand their is no difference they are all just 0100101 on the screen but it is the reputation of WHO is putting out the digital version that makes all the difference. In time a market pegged asset could have huge potential (even if it is holographic at first). Live feeds off proven global markets should be the next step.

As to the IPO part I3 has been very upfront when they have invested money and when they haven't. If you check out their forums they post the btc amounts they have purchased. You look at it as propping up the system and we call it, "skin in the game". I believe most of the drive has been driven by the Chinese thus far but shouldn't that be expected  given that they have been playing with digital commodities for far longer then the rest of the world. Whats going to happen when btsx hits other exchanges?

Yes their is a list of things that can go wrong but, their is a equally large list that could go right and has the potential to tap into a multi-trillion daily trading market.  

[jl777]

P.S. the btsx guys answer was that this was an experiment to see if their pegging system works! An experiment with other people's million's of dollars. seems a bit irresponsible to me, especially the way they market it as being so solid.

It reminds me of CfBCNext's comment on NXT and Gavin's disclaimer on BTC.

Out of the dozens assets you issued @NXT AE aren't there any 'experiments'?

That said I have no BTSX because I agree it is a timebomb..

I have not sold more than $50K USD of any asset, this is a small risk capital and the people are understanding the experimental nature. The number of "experimental" assets sold to the public is less than half a dozen and the fact they have more than 100 million NXT in combined marketcap does not mean people have risked millions of dollars. There is very little liquidity with assets as of now, but I am long term hodler for these assets and I dont really care about liquidity as I am looking forward to the dividends to create the value, not speculators.

btsx is now live and >$10 million of trading volumes for an experiment, which might or might not be tainted by price support from IPO funds. They are strongly implying that the price pegs are real, but I am not seeing anything that prevents catastrophic price collapse, which will be quite harmful to all of crypto.

If it turns out that they are using IPO funds to prop things up when it reaches the -30% from ATH, then it will eventually come out. Of course they will say it is all part of the experiment and that they couldnt tell the public about it or it would have ruined the experiment, blah, blah, blah.

The likely scenario is that at some point in the future (have no idea when, next week? next month? next year? tomorrow?) some event will cause a sharp price drop and the cascade of selling. Apologies and promises to fix it will be issued and btsx is repurchased at 10% ATH, so the bitshares company itself will probably be just fine, unless they are domiciled in a litigious country

James

[Gentso1]

BitsharesX is going nuts by the way, almost over 100 mil marketcap at the moment.. http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/

Strange thing is that they are only traded at chinese exchanges (Poloniex was added few days ago I think).

On its way to becoming possibly the biggest disaster in crypto history.

Keep clear of the damage when the time comes.

Can you explain the reasons why you think so?

Because i believe their pegged assets feature is extremely unsound, and will very likely lead to a massive implosion. The bigger the capitalization involved the worse the damage will be, and it seems to be getting quite large.

EDIT: That plus the legal risk already mentioned, although either could make the other more likely. Again, a very dangerous situation.



 

Can you be more specific than "extremely unsound"?  The legal risk I understand.

I will let others elaborate. If it hasn't been explained I will write it up at some point but I don't have time right now.

@Gentso1: Anonymint & Cunicula criticised this heavily - check for bytemaster's post and bitshares in the forum.

I will search and give it a read, thanks

[jl777]

I cannot do this alone. I am not sure why you are expecting me to be able to do everything myself.

In order to gain the support you need, communicating your vision must become your first priority.  If you can do it without cultivating support, go straight to code.  But if you are feeling overburdened, prioritizing communication may be the best course.

As penance for the inferred accusation made earlier, I will add a more thorough reading of the darkpaper to my task queue, no promises.   If I can make sense of it, I may be able to help you communicate your vision more succinctly and clearly.  Anything further on this subject will be in PM.

No need for pennance, after all I cant blame you for not having much time, it is fast paced world we are in.

I am able to finish the tech, but you are expecting me to do things I am not good at and so not fast at, I like to find the most talented people and have them do the things I am not so good at. I hired a Chinese translator to make the Chinese version of DarkPaper, but to me the type of whitepaper you are wanting is much like Chinese to me. I have a hard time just reading the formal papers, so I know I wont be able to do such a thing.

One thing I certainly cannot do is an independent review of Teleport. I really appreciate your help!

Thanks.

James

P.S. I think viewing the Teleport as a system is the best way, I fully realize the vulnerability on entry and exit to the Teleport system. The exit is best done via anon debit card. The entry is still an area I am working on improving. For now the intra-Teleport transfers are what I feel are quite solid, especially with some small amount of trusted teleports mixed in.

[Its About Sharing]

Just a note.  I am converting 80% of my BTSX distribution to XMR here at .00009490/.00392.  I hold negligible amount of any alt besides XMR at this point, and for the most part have only dabbled in a few.  Protoshares caught my attention about a year ago, and it is interesting to see the BTS project mature, but I am dubious of it's stability here.

It will be interesting to see if my timing is good.  I don't usually publish my trades publicly, but thought it would be fun.

It is hard to say what is happening with BTSX though...

I've wondered with these BTC 2.0 type technologies, if any large companies are doing deals, if word gets out, what is to stop people from acquiring it ahead of the news?
It is not insider trading imo. Brings up some interesting dilemmas.

I was really interesting in BTSX a year ago as well, but something was just missing in their presentation and seemed off to me. Honestly, it seemed a bit "off" and I can't
put my finger on it. I do wonder if anything is up. In general, I imagine Sesame St, I mean Wall St., and other big money players will get their feet wet with most. I mean the way money is
continually being printed, it would be stupid not to.

IAS