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Author Topic: [XC][XCurrency] Decentralised Trustless Privacy Platform / Encrypted XChat / Pos  (Read 1484218 times)
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cryptico
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September 24, 2014, 01:48:18 PM
Last edit: September 24, 2014, 02:01:36 PM by cryptico
 #26941

i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.

Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me.

Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why should you be allowed to sell them without selling your Share too?

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September 24, 2014, 01:51:07 PM
 #26942


My current thinking is that if you spend/trade your XC, then you loose your share's.


Dan
 

What do mean lose your shares - where do they go? This creates a very tight linkage between a share and a unit of currency - doesn't make sense.  You will take XC out of circulation.  Anyway you could always sell your shares, trade your XC then buy back the shares.   Try to not to make this complicated - just give away shares to based on a future announced checkpoint on the XC blockchain.
Maintaining a link between shares & current XC coins someone has is an administrative nightmare, just forget that link

Think wider, all you have to do is replace the word 'shares' with what they stand for at a future moment in time & you got zero problems.
XC community happy, there coin gets extra value, not only measured in btc on the current exchanges but also in '<for XC inc to deside>' gains in the future.
Outsiders happy, a team that prove themself by creating XC is opening there own company and we can get a share of there future profits.
There are a so many thinkable services and products that can be build around the XC tech that there is no doubt in my mind that company will be successful.
They just reward at future moment in time in two different ways, send XC to the current addresses with unspend balances at that time (result is a little like a pos reward) or with fiat/btc to whoever bought a share with that currency. Also the future and success of XCurrency will be certain with a funded company behind it that has all incentives needed to maintain XC
Market also happy, there is no single moment in time where there is a risk of buy pressure before & sell pressure after.







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September 24, 2014, 02:01:29 PM
 #26943

i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.

Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me.

Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too?

you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that.

they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito.

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September 24, 2014, 02:04:00 PM
 #26944

i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.

Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me.

Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too?

you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that.

they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito.



Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them straight after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before

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September 24, 2014, 02:05:46 PM
 #26945

i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.

Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me.

Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too?

you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that.

they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito.



Hoertest I think you're correct here.

XC coins need to be fungible, and the worst thing for fungibility is if some coins become worth more than others.

XCurrency also has independent fundamentals from XC Inc. Therefore their tokens should be independent.

Both XC and XC Inc. shares need to tradable independently of each other.


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September 24, 2014, 02:08:11 PM
 #26946

i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.

Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me.

Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too?

you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that.

they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito.



Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them staright after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before

A "time lock" on them might be a better idea. Because instead of it becoming an amazing thing, great advantages to XC holders, if they are locked into each other you have pretty much nullified any value or use to the shares for anyone who is owning them because they support XC.

Yes there will be some people who buy XC with the intention of selling the shares and coins, or any combination afterwards but it isn't going to be a huge amount. If they remain connected and i want to use the currency for one of the main reasons it was built for to buy stuff, not only am i paying money for the product i wish for, i am also losing shares and money and value. It completely destroys the main purpose of the currency if on spending you are in  worse position than before because you have lost added value.
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September 24, 2014, 02:10:14 PM
 #26947

i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.

Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me.

Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too?

you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that.

they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito.



Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them staright after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before

A "time lock" on them might be a better idea. Because instead of it becoming an amazing thing, great advantages to XC holders, if they are locked into each other you have pretty much nullified any value or use to the shares for anyone who is owning them because they support XC.

Yes there will be some people who buy XC with the intention of selling the shares and coins, or any combination afterwards but it isn't going to be a huge amount. If they remain connected and i want to use the currency for one of the main reasons it was built for to buy stuff, not only am i paying money for the product i wish for, i am also losing shares and money and value. It completely destroys the main purpose of the currency if on spending you are in  worse position than before because you have lost added value.

Yes I think you're correct about this.

I personally don't see sufficient reason to tie XC to XC Inc. shares.


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September 24, 2014, 02:12:10 PM
 #26948

i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.

Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me.

Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too?

you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that.

they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito.



Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them staright after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before

A "time lock" on them might be a better idea. Because instead of it becoming an amazing thing, great advantages to XC holders, if they are locked into each other you have pretty much nullified any value or use to the shares for anyone who is owning them because they support XC.

Yes there will be some people who buy XC with the intention of selling the shares and coins, or any combination afterwards but it isn't going to be a huge amount. If they remain connected and i want to use the currency for one of the main reasons it was built for to buy stuff, not only am i paying money for the product i wish for, i am also losing shares and money and value. It completely destroys the main purpose of the currency if on spending you are in  worse position than before because you have lost added value.

Yea I meant a "time Lock" as Synechist was suggesting back in the Thread

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September 24, 2014, 02:13:47 PM
 #26949

i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.

Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me.

Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too?

you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that.

they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito.



Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them staright after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before

yeah thats a different story . but since its limited in time you just push some kind of dump in the future. it would be much better to present reasons at that point in time why selling XC the currency would be stupid beyond the obvious reason of xmixer revenue which the shares don't create. but in order to stay different kind of beasts they can't be linked ever.

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September 24, 2014, 02:14:48 PM
 #26950

I would like to know who the fuck is always Dumping on Mintpal Puntually after each news release..

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September 24, 2014, 02:15:32 PM
 #26951

i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.

Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me.

Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too?

you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that.

they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito.



Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them staright after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before

yeah thats a different story . but since its limited in time you just push some kind of dump in the future. it would be much better to present reasons at that point in time why selling XC the currency would be stupid beyond the obvious reason of xmixer revenue which the shares don't create. but in order to stay different kind of beasts they can't be linked ever.



Yea You are right.

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buy-black
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September 24, 2014, 02:21:48 PM
 #26952

Let me see if i understand this correctly, there will be some day in the future that every XC holder can get (not buy) shares in XC inc.
In the period before everybody has a choice to buy XC inc shares directly or by buying XC before that moment & receive them for free

What i want to know is whats happens after that day? Am i free to spend/trade that 10 XC but can i keep my XC inc share?
If so, isn't there a big risk many outsiders will choice option b, drive the price up, only to dump a day later?

My current thinking is that if you spend/trade your XC, then you loose your share's.

Dan
I like this but also the shares should follow the xc owner.  So if you sell XC you are also giving up your shares to the new owner.  Therefore it makes XC currency more appealing to buyers.


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September 24, 2014, 02:23:12 PM
 #26953

Let's sketch a scenario:

My biggest concern at the moment is to avoid causing an XC pump and dump.

The question we'll need to ask ourselves is whether traders will be incentivised to sell XC after ITO. I think it comes down to the following scenario:

- If owning XC before the ITO means I get XC + XC Inc. shares,
- but then holding XC after the ITO means only holding currency,
- does XCurrency thereby lose value after the ITO?

The answer, I think, is that from now until the ITO, XC has double value (i.e. XC + XC Inc. shares), after which it'll go back to having its usual value.

However, this will not provoke me to dump, because:
- if I dump before the ITO I don't get to redeem XC's double-value
- if I dump after the ITO my coins have gone back to their usual value already, so the incentive to dump disappears.

So after the ITO, I imagine that traders will simply choose to hold or dump based on the currency's prospects.


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September 24, 2014, 02:29:21 PM
 #26954

Let's sketch a scenario:

My biggest concern at the moment is to avoid causing an XC pump and dump.

The question we'll need to ask ourselves is whether traders will be incentivised to sell XC after ITO. I think it comes down to the following scenario:

- If owning XC before the ITO means I get XC + XC Inc. shares,
- but then holding XC after the ITO means only holding currency,
- does XCurrency thereby lose value after the ITO?

The answer, I think, is that from now until the ITO, XC has double value (i.e. XC + XC Inc. shares), after which it'll go back to having its usual value.

However, this will not provoke me to dump, because:
- if I dump before the ITO I don't get to redeem XC's double-value
- if I dump after the ITO my coins have gone back to their usual value already, so the incentive to dump disappears.

So after the ITO, I imagine that traders will simply choose to hold or dump based on the currency's prospects.



prospects is the magic word here, they won't dump if they realise that shares and XC give them different kinds of value in the future.

XC: stake money, xmixer fees . probably web 3.0 serving fees

shares: actual owning part of the company, probably divident payments in the future.

If you can communicate the pros of each and don't tie them in any way i'm not afraid of a dump.
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September 24, 2014, 02:29:46 PM
 #26955

This coin is not saved Undecided
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September 24, 2014, 02:30:08 PM
 #26956

To avoid dumping its a matter of sequence.

1. First do your internal share offering for the holders of XC currency where they are 'given' shares based on how many XC they hold.  Close off 1.
2. Then allow the wider community to purchase shares using XC currency only - you could recycle the currency almost straight back to market to avoid price exploding beyond what is sustainable.
3. Then allow the wider community to purchase shares using any currency.

This should give a softer landing for XC.  IMHO I would skip 3 and only do 1 & 2, much better for everyone.



Just bumping this because its partly relevant to the current discussion.

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September 24, 2014, 02:33:17 PM
 #26957

To avoid dumping its a matter of sequence.

1. First do your internal share offering for the holders of XC currency where they are 'given' shares based on how many XC they hold.  Close off 1.
2. Then allow the wider community to purchase shares using XC currency only - you could recycle the currency almost straight back to market to avoid price exploding beyond what is sustainable.
3. Then allow the wider community to purchase shares using any currency.

This should give a softer landing for XC.  IMHO I would skip 3 and only do 1 & 2, much better for everyone.



Just bumping this because its partly relevant to the current discussion.

Yeah I really like this idea.

My only concern with it at the moment is that if people buy shares with XC, then this will cause XC Inc. to hold a lot of the currency.

I'd prefer it to remain well-distributed.


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September 24, 2014, 02:35:27 PM
 #26958

Let's sketch a scenario:

My biggest concern at the moment is to avoid causing an XC pump and dump.

The question we'll need to ask ourselves is whether traders will be incentivised to sell XC after ITO. I think it comes down to the following scenario:

- If owning XC before the ITO means I get XC + XC Inc. shares,
- but then holding XC after the ITO means only holding currency,
- does XCurrency thereby lose value after the ITO?

The answer, I think, is that from now until the ITO, XC has double value (i.e. XC + XC Inc. shares), after which it'll go back to having its usual value.

However, this will not provoke me to dump, because:
- if I dump before the ITO I don't get to redeem XC's double-value
- if I dump after the ITO my coins have gone back to their usual value already, so the incentive to dump disappears.

So after the ITO, I imagine that traders will simply choose to hold or dump based on the currency's prospects.



prospects is the magic word here, they won't dump if they realise that shares and XC give them different kinds of value in the future.

XC: stake money, xmixer fees . probably web 3.0 serving fees

shares: actual owning part of the company, probably divident payments in the future.

If you can communicate the pros of each and don't tie them in any way i'm not afraid of a dump.

Yes. To my mind this works.

That said, my poor mind has been awake way too much. I only got 3 1/2 hours sleep due to all the excitement here.

I need to take a nap. See you later folks. :-)


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September 24, 2014, 03:04:20 PM
 #26959

XC should not be linked to the XC Inc. tokens past distribution.
I think if there is enough reason to have a "stock" then there is enough reason for them to be separate.

If coins are time locked to get the tokens. How would that affect the network since it is POS?
If a large holder decided not to trade for tokens would they get a larger percent of the blocks making 51% type attacks easier? Or does the lock just prevent sending but not staking?


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September 24, 2014, 03:05:50 PM
 #26960

Let's sketch a scenario:

My biggest concern at the moment is to avoid causing an XC pump and dump.

The question we'll need to ask ourselves is whether traders will be incentivised to sell XC after ITO. I think it comes down to the following scenario:

- If owning XC before the ITO means I get XC + XC Inc. shares,
- but then holding XC after the ITO means only holding currency,
- does XCurrency thereby lose value after the ITO?

The answer, I think, is that from now until the ITO, XC has double value (i.e. XC + XC Inc. shares), after which it'll go back to having its usual value.

However, this will not provoke me to dump, because:
- if I dump before the ITO I don't get to redeem XC's double-value
- if I dump after the ITO my coins have gone back to their usual value already, so the incentive to dump disappears.

So after the ITO, I imagine that traders will simply choose to hold or dump based on the currency's prospects.



prospects is the magic word here, they won't dump if they realise that shares and XC give them different kinds of value in the future.

XC: stake money, xmixer fees . probably web 3.0 serving fees

shares: actual owning part of the company, probably divident payments in the future.

If you can communicate the pros of each and don't tie them in any way i'm not afraid of a dump.
In my logic you are saying the same as me. They both have there own value & there must be no link between them. So why create a link in the first place?

I think the base of the current discussion is how current XC holders can get some shares (btw: thanks for this)
The risk of P&D is imo based on a timeframe, call it the ICO period or the lock period after coins where used to get shares but it still is just a time period with a fancy name.
Its good to have XC before that timeframe (get shares) and that single purpose will vanish after that time. I know there are many more reasons to hold XC but after that time one of those reasons will go away.

So why not reward XC holders continuously with XC when appropriate (XC inc had its first good year) by sending XC (generates buy pressure) to XC holders at that time?
All i see is added value to a XC coin that can transfer same as the coins itself so only adds value that will not go away.
And no legal link

Or am i missing something, are share/tokens equivalent to something more than monetary gain?
Im dutch so sometimes thats the only thing i think of:)

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