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Author Topic: NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs  (Read 2984064 times)
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jabo38
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March 04, 2015, 11:40:45 AM
 #12501

Few more curious question.

I left my laptop on for a night, and received around 14000+ XEM in test client. My Importance was showing at first 0.26%.
So, I created another account in the same wallet. Sent few (20+30Fee) XEM to it.
Created another new wallet and sent 1000+2Fee XEM to it.
Later I found my Importance was 0.27%

My initial balance was 500,000 XEM.

* How can increase my account's Importance?

* Does the following factors play role in account's Importance?
 - How long the system with Blockchain is active on network. Means how long it's available online on network.
 - Is there something similar to 'Halmark' in NEM client? Does that play in Importance?
 - Will making NEM client available as public node increase it's Importance?
 - What other factors increase Importance?

* Is there auto-update feature available in NEM client? or is it going to be when final NEM client launched?

Cheers! Cheesy

One of the big complaints with PoW was that the miners were wasteful and too centralized.  PoS was a big improvement because it fixed the waste problem and a couple of others, but it wasn't perfect.  In PoS whales are encouraged to hoard.  The more they hoard, the more they get.  As you found out with NEM, you can actually get a little reward for not hoarding.  Basically, by spending with certain accounts (not all transactions help your POI, some will actually hurt it, like if you send back and forth to yourself) you actually increased your PoI.  You basically build a good reputation for yourself in the system as a good transactor.  In this way PoI can be thought of as the first ever reputation based blockchain system.  That leap from PoI from PoS in that aspect, is just as big of a leap from PoW to PoS in my opinion.  

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March 04, 2015, 01:36:08 PM
 #12502

Also, there is a secret project that will be announced that will be a huge boost to usability.


Looking forward to it Wink
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March 04, 2015, 03:38:12 PM
 #12503






Looks good and would not need to change images on vice or on the coins



The original cluster isnt bad but with the 3 nem colors planted in the middle doesnt help
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March 04, 2015, 04:16:05 PM
 #12504

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March 04, 2015, 04:24:37 PM
 #12505

The main difference is that Nxt has launched and been stable for over a year with a number of features that NEM doesn't have.  NEM hasn't launched, so you can't really compare them. 

Stable???

Not exactly. I've personally helped discover and have been a part of an "oh shit" moment at NXT where all the devs had to do an emergency debug and roll out a new emergency release.  One node was processing ALL the blocks. If you know about crypto, you know that isn't something you want.

At that time NXTers just stayed quiet and didn't advertising they were forking.  Within a day it was fixed and everybody acted like it didn't happen.

Especially early on, the network had a lot of problems. I'm not sure how many of their updates have been emergency patches like that, so nobody can say it's been stable for a year. But I can say that it is pretty stable now. Originally the code was a mess, but Jean Luc cleaned it up really well. He is an amazing programmer and has turned NXT into a wonderful program.

Good for you jabo38  Roll Eyes  Anyway, I'll repeat what I said.  Nxt has been stable for over a year, and NEM has yet to launch.  NEM will get a lot more attention from hackers when it's launched, and like every other crypto (including BTC), there will be bugs.  Stop comparing the two, it does nothing but bring more attention to Nxt.  
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March 04, 2015, 10:12:16 PM
 #12506

is there a release date for the nem launch announced yet?

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R I Z E N
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March 04, 2015, 11:53:16 PM
 #12507

is there a release date for the nem launch announced yet?

no, hopefully it shouldnt be long before a date is announced.

You've been saying this for literally over 6 months now.

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 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
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March 05, 2015, 12:08:50 AM
Last edit: March 05, 2015, 12:58:57 AM by jabo38
 #12508

The main difference is that Nxt has launched and been stable for over a year with a number of features that NEM doesn't have.  NEM hasn't launched, so you can't really compare them.  

Stable???

Not exactly. I've personally helped discover and have been a part of an "oh shit" moment at NXT where all the devs had to do an emergency debug and roll out a new emergency release.  One node was processing ALL the blocks. If you know about crypto, you know that isn't something you want.

At that time NXTers just stayed quiet and didn't advertising they were forking.  Within a day it was fixed and everybody acted like it didn't happen.

Especially early on, the network had a lot of problems. I'm not sure how many of their updates have been emergency patches like that, so nobody can say it's been stable for a year. But I can say that it is pretty stable now. Originally the code was a mess, but Jean Luc cleaned it up really well. He is an amazing programmer and has turned NXT into a wonderful program.

Good for you jabo38  Roll Eyes  Anyway, I'll repeat what I said.  Nxt has been stable for over a year, and NEM has yet to launch.  NEM will get a lot more attention from hackers when it's launched, and like every other crypto (including BTC), there will be bugs.  Stop comparing the two, it does nothing but bring more attention to Nxt.  

Dude, you were the one comparing. stop trolling.

I also don't understand how you consider the network completely breaking down to one messed up node to be "stable".  Maybe you missed the link. https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/is-the-chain-healthy/

Also, it is fine if my comments bring more attention to NXT, I like NXT.  

But I also like the truth. :-)

NXT is a big brother of NEM, and most of the NEM community either has or once had a big stake in NXT too.  Some people in NEM do hate on NXT and some people in NXT do hate on NEM, but there is still quite a bit of cross over.  

If anybody wants to come into a NEM thread and say why they think NXT is better to them, that is fine with me, I realize everybody has choice and opinions.  But the reasons need to based on facts.




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March 05, 2015, 01:39:52 AM
 #12509



Thanks Lorenzo,

I was looking for NEM history on google, but couldn't find. Thanks for some history insight on NEM.

Few more questions.

* I see in IPO or NEM investment Come-From-Boyond is marked red, and mentioned he took step back from his investment in NEM. I joined NXT just last month, but he seems to be pretty reputed person in NXT community. Do you know any reason why he has left NEM behind?

hello and welcome to nem. Smiley great questions. il try to answer some as best i can...

Nice response and I learned a lot about NEM from reading it. Unfortunately, I know little about NEM other than the basics so I'm probably couldn't have answered those questions myself.

Quote
Remote/secure harvesting is my favourite feature, it allows you to connect to anyones Nis, even a malicious one, and you can harvest, transact and do everything you normally would have to do, with out ever having to download the blockchain and your privat keys are never sent over the network. its as simple as my giving you an IP address, you put that in settings, and if my nis is already synced, then you are instantly synced and ready to transact in a completely safe and secure way. this is a really really powerful feature.

Correct me if I'm mistaken but isn't this similar to how Electrum works - i.e. you don't need to download the blockchain and instead connect to external servers to obtain and broadcast transactions?

Also, grewalsatinder has a point in saying that NEM's asset exchange will be at a disadvantage without someone like jl777. Without him, it's likely that NXT wouldn't be where it is today. jl777 isn't a core dev but what he does is add highly useful services that exist on top of the core. Most of the top assets on the AE were either created by him or are affiliated with him.

As for the fees changing in NXT, I don't think they are going to change.  I think you are being lied too.  People in NXT have been saying they will change the fees for over a year.  Seriously, you can search for threads and discussions about it more than a year old.  Yet it hasn't happened.  The truth is the NXT whales like high fees.  They make money off it, and they won't let that go.   

There was a lot of talk about lowering the fees when NXT's price shot up to 10 cents last June but now that it's back down to 1-2 cents, it isn't really a huge issue anymore. The community will probably revisit it when the price goes back up since most NXTers agree that changing the fee is inevitable anyway.

And you'd be surprised how low NXT forging rewards can be. Most blocks have little or no fees. Out of the last 30 blocks, about half had zero fees and the rest had fees in the single digits. According to the forging calculator (link), even a NXT whale with 1 million NXT forging 24/7 would only get 50 cents worth of NXT after a week.

One of the big complaints with PoW was that the miners were wasteful and too centralized.  PoS was a big improvement because it fixed the waste problem and a couple of others, but it wasn't perfect.  In PoS whales are encouraged to hoard.  The more they hoard, the more they get.  As you found out with NEM, you can actually get a little reward for not hoarding.  Basically, by spending with certain accounts (not all transactions help your POI, some will actually hurt it, like if you send back and forth to yourself) you actually increased your PoI.  You basically build a good reputation for yourself in the system as a good transactor.  In this way PoI can be thought of as the first ever reputation based blockchain system.  That leap from PoI from PoS in that aspect, is just as big of a leap from PoW to PoS in my opinion.

POI is an innovative concept but only if it proves to be resistant to manipulation. Has there been any analysis or testing on whether or not NEM's POI is resistant to Sybil attacks? From the moment NEM goes live, there will be people seeking to expand their influence through dishonest means:

Quote from: Sybil attack - Wikipedia
The Sybil attack in computer security is an attack wherein a reputation system is subverted by forging identities in peer-to-peer networks...

...In a Sybil attack the attacker subverts the reputation system of a peer-to-peer network by creating a large number of pseudonymous identities, using them to gain a disproportionately large influence. A reputation system's vulnerability to a Sybil attack depends on how cheaply identities can be generated, the degree to which the reputation system accepts inputs from entities that do not have a chain of trust linking them to a trusted entity, and whether the reputation system treats all entities identically. Evidence shows large-scale Sybil attack can be carried out in a very cheap and efficient way in realistic systems like BitTorrent Mainline DHT.

The current tier-based Bitcointalk trust system has its pros and cons but it works well for the most part. Anyone can send positive or negative feedback but only those from trusted members have a real effect on the trust score. Trusted members add other trusted members to their trust list and the pool of trusted members is constantly changing. Bitcointalk accounts (i.e. identities) are easily generated but the trust system works because the trust score only accepts inputs from a select pool of accounts.
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March 05, 2015, 05:14:30 AM
 #12510

Hi Lorenzo, you made some very good points.

I'll try to answer some of your questions.  

There really isn't a good word for remote harversting.  Some people think secure harvesting is a better term.  Really what it is to me is "proxy private key secure remote harvesting" but that is a lot of words that get jumbled. hahahaha.  

What that means is you can create a proxy private key that inherits your PoI score.  You can then securely and safely broadcast that private key to any node, even malicious nodes as there isn't any actual XEM in that account.  All the fees earned from harvesting with that private key are not given to that account, but instead redirected to the original account that had the original PoI.  

Because of this, I can totally feel free to leave my computer running at home on a raspi 24/7 or other computer.  If somebody breaks into my house and hacks into that computer to try to retrieve the private key, they only get the proxy key.  Likewise, I can feel totally safe harvesting on a hosted VPN knowing even if it is hacked or controlled by a malicious service, my account is still safe.  

Really the better term for it is "secure harvesting".

Now, what you were talking about wasn't really about remote harvesting but about another feature.  Basically in NEM any NCC (computer side wallet) can connect to any NIS (network node) and do transactions safely.  Yes, that is kind of like Electrum, but actually a big improvement on it.  The only threat is when somebody needs to harvest, they have to provide a private key to the NIS, thus the devs built in the feature of remote harvesting.  

NEM devs really have created something special here.  I am not sure if people really see and understand just how nice this is.  Also, the NCC is completely open source so any body can re-skin it and mix it up in a way that makes for a completely 3rd party app specialized to meet the needs of a specific company.  Think of how James is building Supernet on NXT, kind of like that, but you don't need to be a James and work closely with the main devs asking them for this or that, any company or any dev can do it.  

As far as NXT AE goes.  To me it has been by far the most successful feature of NXT and like you said James was able to do A LOT on that.  NEM will have to pull a special metaphorical rabbit out of its hat if it wants to have a better exchange, but I have confidence in them.  

Also, sadly I know about no fee blocks on NXT.  I have only been so lucky to have forged 3 blocks, but all of them were empty.  After that I gave up.  In reality there is a big problem with all crypto.  Bitcoin is subsidizing miners to almost a million dollars a day.  NXT got that down to hundreds. hahahaha.  But still there is a problem.  Many people like the original newbie asking questions on here wants lower fees and thought that they would change.  You and I both think that isn't going to change.  The problem is how do you support a network without fees, especially when it is being boot-strapped.  Again, NEM devs have been thinking about this I think as it is such an obvious issue that needs to be addressed.

As for your thoughts on NEM's POI needing a real world run and needing to be tested.  I completely agree with you.  As others have mentioned, NEM hasn't launched and hasn't had a lot of surprise attacks and people trying to manipulate and destroy it.  That testing needs to be done and until then, NEM can't actually claim that it is the real deal.

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March 05, 2015, 05:30:10 AM
 #12511

is there a release date for the nem launch announced yet?

When the robin builds his nest.

                
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Sora
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March 05, 2015, 05:32:09 AM
 #12512



Thanks Lorenzo,

I was looking for NEM history on google, but couldn't find. Thanks for some history insight on NEM.

Few more questions.

* I see in IPO or NEM investment Come-From-Boyond is marked red, and mentioned he took step back from his investment in NEM. I joined NXT just last month, but he seems to be pretty reputed person in NXT community. Do you know any reason why he has left NEM behind?

hello and welcome to nem. Smiley great questions. il try to answer some as best i can...

Nice response and I learned a lot about NEM from reading it. Unfortunately, I know little about NEM other than the basics so I'm probably couldn't have answered those questions myself.

Quote
Remote/secure harvesting is my favourite feature, it allows you to connect to anyones Nis, even a malicious one, and you can harvest, transact and do everything you normally would have to do, with out ever having to download the blockchain and your privat keys are never sent over the network. its as simple as my giving you an IP address, you put that in settings, and if my nis is already synced, then you are instantly synced and ready to transact in a completely safe and secure way. this is a really really powerful feature.

Correct me if I'm mistaken but isn't this similar to how Electrum works - i.e. you don't need to download the blockchain and instead connect to external servers to obtain and broadcast transactions?

Also, grewalsatinder has a point in saying that NEM's asset exchange will be at a disadvantage without someone like jl777. Without him, it's likely that NXT wouldn't be where it is today. jl777 isn't a core dev but what he does is add highly useful services that exist on top of the core. Most of the top assets on the AE were either created by him or are affiliated with him.

As for the fees changing in NXT, I don't think they are going to change.  I think you are being lied too.  People in NXT have been saying they will change the fees for over a year.  Seriously, you can search for threads and discussions about it more than a year old.  Yet it hasn't happened.  The truth is the NXT whales like high fees.  They make money off it, and they won't let that go.   

There was a lot of talk about lowering the fees when NXT's price shot up to 10 cents last June but now that it's back down to 1-2 cents, it isn't really a huge issue anymore. The community will probably revisit it when the price goes back up since most NXTers agree that changing the fee is inevitable anyway.

And you'd be surprised how low NXT forging rewards can be. Most blocks have little or no fees. Out of the last 30 blocks, about half had zero fees and the rest had fees in the single digits. According to the forging calculator (link), even a NXT whale with 1 million NXT forging 24/7 would only get 50 cents worth of NXT after a week.

One of the big complaints with PoW was that the miners were wasteful and too centralized.  PoS was a big improvement because it fixed the waste problem and a couple of others, but it wasn't perfect.  In PoS whales are encouraged to hoard.  The more they hoard, the more they get.  As you found out with NEM, you can actually get a little reward for not hoarding.  Basically, by spending with certain accounts (not all transactions help your POI, some will actually hurt it, like if you send back and forth to yourself) you actually increased your PoI.  You basically build a good reputation for yourself in the system as a good transactor.  In this way PoI can be thought of as the first ever reputation based blockchain system.  That leap from PoI from PoS in that aspect, is just as big of a leap from PoW to PoS in my opinion.

POI is an innovative concept but only if it proves to be resistant to manipulation. Has there been any analysis or testing on whether or not NEM's POI is resistant to Sybil attacks? From the moment NEM goes live, there will be people seeking to expand their influence through dishonest means:

Quote from: Sybil attack - Wikipedia
The Sybil attack in computer security is an attack wherein a reputation system is subverted by forging identities in peer-to-peer networks...

...In a Sybil attack the attacker subverts the reputation system of a peer-to-peer network by creating a large number of pseudonymous identities, using them to gain a disproportionately large influence. A reputation system's vulnerability to a Sybil attack depends on how cheaply identities can be generated, the degree to which the reputation system accepts inputs from entities that do not have a chain of trust linking them to a trusted entity, and whether the reputation system treats all entities identically. Evidence shows large-scale Sybil attack can be carried out in a very cheap and efficient way in realistic systems like BitTorrent Mainline DHT.

The current tier-based Bitcointalk trust system has its pros and cons but it works well for the most part. Anyone can send positive or negative feedback but only those from trusted members have a real effect on the trust score. Trusted members add other trusted members to their trust list and the pool of trusted members is constantly changing. Bitcointalk accounts (i.e. identities) are easily generated but the trust system works because the trust score only accepts inputs from a select pool of accounts.

PoI is not susceptible to Sybil-style attacks. It's the first thing we considered when designing the algorithm, before programming even started.

                
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xtester
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March 05, 2015, 07:40:34 AM
 #12513

is there a release date for the nem launch announced yet?

no, hopefully it shouldnt be long before a date is announced.

You've been saying this for literally over 6 months now.

And he's by definition closer to the truth now then when he said it first.

As things stand now I hope we'll have an update on the matter next week or so.
patmast3r
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March 05, 2015, 07:43:51 AM
 #12514

is there a release date for the nem launch announced yet?

no, hopefully it shouldnt be long before a date is announced.

You've been saying this for literally over 6 months now.

And he's by definition closer to the truth now then when he said it first.

As things stand now I hope we'll have an update on the matter next week or so.

Also, noone has been saying THAT for 6 months.

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March 05, 2015, 01:15:46 PM
 #12515

Selling 1 full Nemstake private keys, PM with offers
BloodyRookie
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March 05, 2015, 01:33:15 PM
 #12516

Selling 1 full Nemstake private keys, PM with offers

Be careful, people, even if you buy a private key the original owner still knows that private key too!

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NEM: NALICE-LGU3IV-Y4DPJK-HYLSSV-YFFWYS-5QPLYE-ZDJJ
NXT: 11095639652683007953
GTO911
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March 05, 2015, 01:39:13 PM
 #12517

Selling 1 full Nemstake private keys, PM with offers

Be careful, people, even if you buy a private key the original owner still knows that private key too!


Suggest something else then
patmast3r
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March 05, 2015, 01:43:11 PM
 #12518

Selling 1 full Nemstake private keys, PM with offers

Be careful, people, even if you buy a private key the original owner still knows that private key too!


Suggest something else then

Once redeemed there is no trustless way to sell that stake again. Not before launch anyway.

dandruff1138
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March 05, 2015, 02:27:47 PM
 #12519

is there a release date for the nem launch announced yet?

no, hopefully it shouldnt be long before a date is announced.

You've been saying this for literally over 6 months now.

And he's by definition closer to the truth now then when he said it first.

As things stand now I hope we'll have an update on the matter next week or so.

"And he's by definition closer to the truth now then when he said it first. " Wouldn't that be the case everytime he says it? haha

Anyways, 26 Days remain. Smiley

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NoirSuccubus
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March 05, 2015, 04:08:30 PM
 #12520

If 1 xem = $0.001 usd that would give each stake a value of $2250 with a total market cap of $9m. All of the top 9 or 10 coins have a cap above 10 million so if we're expecting NEM to at least make the top 10 then we should expect $.001usd/xem around launch. Imagine 1 xem = .01 usd!
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