GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

[suchmoon]

Here is one more attempt at an explanation but I think it's even less coherent than "virtual software magic".

https://hashtalk.org/t/how-hashlets-zenpool-works-confirmed/10312

[suchmoon]

How certain are you that Hashlets aren't real? Created something on betmoose for the heck of it.

https://www.betmoose.com/bet/will-gawminers-be-revealed-as-a-scam-before-2015-758

Great, I wanted to do something like that just didn't know how. Can you update the bet with more detail what qualifies as being "revealed as scam"? Stops paying out? Josh arrested? I think there might be different interpretations as it stands now.

Yeah, I guess the title is a bit misleading. Kinda did it in a rush. It won't allow me to edit or delete the bet.

To be clearer, my decision logic is specifically on hashlets. GAWminers maybe shady but they do ship out miners. Also, it's possible that they may not have the "datacenter" size that they claim but seems likely that they do/did have some sort of mining operation however small it is.

So it would be easier to just focus on hashlets. Yes, payout stopping permanently qualifies as scam. Josh getting arrested due to hashlets is qualified as a scam. I guess the best way to consider it "officially" a scam is if news breaks out on crypto news blog sites that hashlets aren't real.

Anyway, I'll try contacting betmoose to see if they'll allow me to update the title and decision logic.

Ok, I put 0.01 on Yes just to offset rdyoung's bet, although I too believe the hashlet has a good chance to survive into 2015. They have the "blogs" pretty well showered in ads

[Flep182]

Just got an email from gaws.  Among other things it says:

Free Hashlet Solos
To celebrate the new lineup, we will be giving a free random Hashlet Solo to all customers to get you started! They go out tomorrow night so be sure to tell us which one you got.

So looks like I will have a hashlet for sale. 

Oh, that's nice of them. The fourth complimentary miner

[rdyoung]

Here is one more attempt at an explanation but I think it's even less coherent than "virtual software magic".

https://hashtalk.org/t/how-hashlets-zenpool-works-confirmed/10312

I understand completely what the hashlets are supposed to, represent. I have no issue wrapping my head around an idea of a virtual asset that can be morphed into something else when its needed or wanted. The problem I had was the source of the payouts for zenpool.

We still have contradictory information here. When zencloud was launched, eric said that he had made backroom deals with the pool operators and that were keeping his hashpower in the shadows. Now, everyone is ok with the fact that they weren't even mining on those pools at all.

That thread/post is a joke. I believe they are referencing a couple of us when he posts that people who aren't deserving of an answer.
If I invest even 1$ in whatever you have to offer, you bet your ass I am deserving of an answer, and the fact that the lemmings as well josh don't think we are deserving tells me a lot about how he runs a business.

[suchmoon]

Has anyone noticed that with logging in you agree to the "new" TOS?

https://zenminer.com/cloud/terms.html

With things like this:

You understand that Hashlets are virtual service units related to mining services, but are not mining hardware. Hashlets earnings depend on the pool chosen and Payouts reflect respective Pool Payouts. Selecting a Pool does not imply physically or electronically mining at the selected Pool. Rather, selecting a Pool determines a Payout corresponding to a calculation based on the selected Pool’s payout (based on, for example, real-time Megahash/second/day calculations). A Hashlet is virtual software. You will receive Payouts according to the Pool with with the Hashlet is associated. You expressly understand the the Company’s sole obligation to You is to Provide a Payout based on the Pool you choose. It may take 24-48 hours for your Hashlet to appear on Your Portal. Company reserves the right to refund You, and terminate services, at any time and for any reason. All sales are final.

Have you or anyone else posted this on hashtalk? Can't find it being discussed over there. Seems kind of important, especially the "not mining hardware" and "fees may be adjusted up or down" parts.

There is one more thing that caught my eye since I have some "legacy" hardware at Zen:

If you have purchased legacy materials, such as hardware, and if you terminate the Agreement, or if you make a written request to Company, then Company will provide you with your purchased Materials according to the following procedure. Within 21 days of termination or Company’s receipt of Your written request, Company will either possess, or will initiate steps to acquire, the Materials you purchased. Initiating acquisition of such Materials may include, for example, ordering such Materials from a third party supplier. You understand that Company has no direct control over the fulfillment process of any such third parties and therefore makes no guarantees as to the time it will take to acquire the Materials. Once Company either possesses such Materials, or acquires such Materials from such third parties, then, within 21 days, Company will initiate shipment of such Materials to You. Company makes no guarantees or representations regarding the timing or method of shipment of such Materials.

Which is basically what I said in the OP a month ago, and as far as I can see it confirms that they don't actually have the miners:

4) Zen will deliver your miners if you choose to "unhost" them, but that may take two weeks. This can be interpreted in two different ways. One would be that this is a ridiculously long amount of time and it's purpose is to discourage taking delivery, but for someone really persistent they need two weeks to find a used miner. Or see below.

[Flep182]

They might very well exist and be hashing away (in my case two Ant S3's) but that once you cancel the hosting they keep the miners running but stop paying you and order with Bitmaintech to send you a new miner directly (well, max 21 days later).

[not.you]

They might very well exist and be hashing away (in my case two Ant S3's) but that once you cancel the hosting they keep the miners running but stop paying you and order with Bitmaintech to send you a new miner directly (well, max 21 days later).

I don't read that as max 21 days.  It says gaws may take 21 days to send it to you AFTER they get it but they make NO PROMISE at all as to how long it will take them to get it.  That could mean a year, literally.

[rdyoung]

You know whats awesome about this whole thing? We didn't even ask the hard questions and we still got their panties in a knot.

[suchmoon]

They might very well exist and be hashing away (in my case two Ant S3's) but that once you cancel the hosting they keep the miners running but stop paying you and order with Bitmaintech to send you a new miner directly (well, max 21 days later).

Possible. But you would probably not try to "unhost" them anyway because the long downtime would kill your ROI.

[s1gs3gv]

They might very well exist and be hashing away (in my case two Ant S3's) but that once you cancel the hosting they keep the miners running but stop paying you and order with Bitmaintech to send you a new miner directly (well, max 21 days later).

21 days to get it, 21 more days to ship it, by slow boat

[s1gs3gv]

They might very well exist and be hashing away (in my case two Ant S3's) but that once you cancel the hosting they keep the miners running but stop paying you and order with Bitmaintech to send you a new miner directly (well, max 21 days later).

Possible. But you would probably not try to "unhost" them anyway because the long downtime would kill your ROI.

As will high maintenance fees once GAW start jacking them up to make up for realistic mining returns.

[ScryptHasher]

Yes gaw... that's the way to run a successful business....

When people complain... throw money at them...


Do they think by giving out free stuff that more and more people will be like "Shit... maybe i should buy in so i get free shit too!"

Because i'm looking at it as if i invested in this company... i'd be very skeptical about them giving out more stuff that should be going towards my ROI..


[Disclaimer] i didn't invest in this scam.

[rdyoung]

Yes gaw... that's the way to run a successful business....

When people complain... throw money at them...


Do they think by giving out free stuff that more and more people will be like "Shit... maybe i should buy in so i get free shit too!"

Because i'm looking at it as if i invested in this company... i'd be very skeptical about them giving out more stuff that should be going towards my ROI..


[Disclaimer] i didn't invest in this scam.

Assuming the hashlets are backed by legit hardware, the vaultbreakers were priced as low as 7.5$/MH. Gaws cost on those had to have been less than 5$, I would go so far as likely 2.5$ or lower. And again, IF its legit, they have and will be purchasing a lot of hardware, that brings the cost down significantly. Not to mention, I doubt they have THAT many customers. With the # of "highrollers" as can be seen on the "Champions" page, most of the hashrate is probably concentrated on very few accounts. For a company supposedly bringing in as much as josh claims, handing out a few thousand "hashlets" that probably cost you 2$/piece, really doesn't hurt the bottom line.

[rdyoung]

ya as soon as my ban is lifted, I'm going to sell my 61mh/s for hopefully at least 30/mh and just be done with all this...tired of them...best of luck to everyone

I am going to ride it out. If/when they launch a p2p market for the "prime" hashlets, I might sell them if the price is right, but for now I see no reason to jump ship at a loss.

[Stargazer]

I wonder why are you guys hating so much and at the same time buying from GAW. Some of you said here that you own hashlets, so it can't be that bad of a deal, yet you're trying to discourage others from buying more.
What's going on you want to be the only ones to profit?

[Flep182]

ya as soon as my ban is lifted, I'm going to sell my 61mh/s for hopefully at least 30/mh and just be done with all this...tired of them...best of luck to everyone

By then you've probably doubled your investment

[bumblebee101]

I've tried to read through most of the threads but haven't seen any specific info... I'm trying to find out what the "future features" of Prime are (to justify paying about 2X the cost of Zen Solo). I'm considering getting about 50MH on either Prime or Zen Solo so any clear info would be appreciated.

[suchmoon]

I wonder why are you guys hating so much and at the same time buying from GAW. Some of you said here that you own hashlets, so it can't be that bad of a deal, yet you're trying to discourage others from buying more.
What's going on you want to be the only ones to profit?

So in your opinion it is perfectly fine that hashlet is not "proprietary hardware" anymore but "software", that the price has more than doubled, and fees can go down or up, in contrast with previous promises of guaranteed ROI and "always profitable"? Whats your take on this 180 on most of the initial hashlet blurb?

In other words, some suspicions raised in this thread have been confirmed but you are still wondering why there is a discussion?

By the way disagreeing with someone or something, or calling out a lie, or asking for proof - it's not hate. I see crashoveride54902 up there has stronger feelings but I don't "hate" GAW or any particular person. I dislike lies though. Strongly.

[Stargazer]

i dislike'em cause they are flat out lieing all the time...I had this war machine before gaw bought zen...and figured i'd never see the unit so decided to convert it...

we're discouraging other ppl cause eventually someone is gona be left holding the bag...and you can bet yer ass that it won't be josh invest in them if you want too won't hurt me none when it goes tits up...just remember to invest what you can kiss bye bye

EDIT: ya hate is a strong word...dislike is better thanks suchmoon oh and not to mention all the censorship on there forum...just not called for

So you straight up assumed you won't be getting the hardware, even though there were no people who asked for it and were denied? 

So in your opinion it is perfectly fine that hashlet is not "proprietary hardware" anymore but "software", that the price has more than doubled, and fees can go down or up, in contrast with previous promises of guaranteed ROI and "always profitable"? Whats your take on this 180 on most of the initial hashlet blurb?

In other words, some suspicions raised in this thread have been confirmed but you are still wondering why there is a discussion?

By the way disagreeing with someone or something, or calling out a lie, or asking for proof - it's not hate. I see crashoveride54902 up there has stronger feelings but I don't "hate" GAW or any particular person. I dislike lies though. Strongly.

Here's how I see it. They sold more than they intended to and people kept asking for more, so they needed more supply to satisfy the demand and probably decided that 'if they want it so much let's make them pay more'. That's how I'd do it because this is the way market works.
I think hashlet was a software from the beginning, but the choice of words in early advertising was questionable and was changed later on.
I'm not wondering why the discussion takes place but rather why you keep buying from them if you say it's a scam. I'm a simple guy and if something stinks I don't touch it.

[rdyoung]

I wonder why are you guys hating so much and at the same time buying from GAW. Some of you said here that you own hashlets, so it can't be that bad of a deal, yet you're trying to discourage others from buying more.
What's going on you want to be the only ones to profit?

Its not hate, its getting in and realizing that something doesn't add up.
I bought several furies from gaw and was using zenos to run them before well before zen cloud was a thing.
At the time, it was straight forward, your running physical hardware that you control, then zen started offering the option to purchase gaw hardware and have it hosted with them. At the time, the ceo of zen, eric stated that he had made deals with the pools they were offering for the hosting.
Up until this point there was nothing to balk at really, there was the odd post on here that the pool admins had no clue what eric was talking about, but it didn't seem like anything was out of place. Then gaw "bought" zenminer and thats where things started to get interesting.