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Author Topic: [Ultracoin] [Est. Feb 2014] ~ ASIC Resistant & Ultrafast 6 Second Transactions!  (Read 380979 times)
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usukan
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April 20, 2016, 05:08:11 AM
Last edit: April 20, 2016, 08:19:53 AM by usukan
 #3621

Hi Steven - great to hear from you and thanks for the update.

When you say "add a provision" - I think you are saying lets be open to reducing the Staking reward in the future?

Not actually coding this in right now.

The thing is that in the future we will want to tweak (probably lower) both Block reward and Stake reward - I think thats all pretty much accepted and expected. So I am totally in agreement with what you propose for the future.


Presently - unless my maths is twisted

We produce 525,600 blocks per year by POW (5.26m UTC) (this % inflation, currently about 13%, decreases naturally if left the same at 10 UTC/block reward - in 2 years it would reduce to less than 10% inflation)
At 5.2% POS reward we would potentially produce another 2.1m UTC in 1 year (but it would be less than this due to low participation in staking)
The inflation via POS at 5.2% is of course about 5.2% - but interestingly this inflation remains constant unless the annual POS reward is actually reduced - so I get your point that we need to address this in the future.

We have 1.7m blocks at present.

So talking about blocks 5-6m - we are talking about 6-8 years maybe from now (at soonest 4-6 years) - my math on the number of staked blocks is a bit blurry.

The chances of UTC not doing another fork in the next 2-3 years is very minimal IMO.
As such - we have plenty of time to consider and probably several opportunities to tweak things as you suggest.

I think the best way to communicate (or as you say "add provision") that this is to be expected is to present a table both on the website and at the start of the BitCoinTalk ANN ("plant it on the table" - so to speak) - that lays out the expectations for reductions in both rewards in the future.  I would also qualify this with the statement that this is an expectation that will be considered/reviewed by the Community on a regular (maybe annual) basis and adjusted with community consensus.

So much can happen in crypto in 12 months - any more of a hard wired approach may be to UTC's detriment IMO.

Does this fit with your thinking?

Cheers - usukan



May I humbly suggest we add a provision to reduce the stake reward from 5.2% to 2.6% at block height 5-6,000,000 and again at subsequent intervals? The reasoning behind the PoS reduction is to match the PoW tapering. Large exchanges and whales love high PoS for a reason, and it does bring in a lot of investors, which is why I believe it is a great idea to have the PoS for now, but keep in mind that in the future when Ultracoin is much more popular, a high PoS will result in inflation. Obviously the whole network will never come near a 100% wallet uptime with staking enabled, but I believe it is a good idea to look 1, 5, 10, even 50 years into the future. How we lay the framework now will effect the years to come, and I believe with the proper forethought put in now we can avoud future hard forks, or worse, be tethered to the decisions of the past. I see coin ceilings and coin creation as something to be very calculated with, like a young person with a credit card deciding when to start saving for retirement, instant gratification can overshadow long term consequences.

Many coins, especially PoS only coins with high staking percentage, have seen short term gains and long term debasement due to myopic monetary strategy. Most cryptocurrencies take an arbitrary approach to setting coin ceilings, block rewards and block halving intervals, I believe Ultracoin should base its foundation in sound economic principles with a careful pragmatic attention to detail. I would like to keep these ideas firmly planted on the table while we discuss the coin supply as I all things could have a far reaching implementation if we become "Too Big To Fork". The issue with cryptocurrencies is that this kind of talk can sound all quite "centrally planned", however, the beauty is that once the terms of the code are set into stone it is up to the community to democratically decide on which update to support by "voting" with their participation and processing power.

On a seperate note, I have some low cost/high impact advertising opportunities I have been scouting that will be very huge for the coin, and I am hoping the new update and the advertising project launch can coincide around the same window. More details soon to come. I have also contacted a developer for a one click miner implementation, I am hoping he can join our committee and work in some capacity, either advisory or development, in implenenting the long awaited one click miner feature to the wallet. This would allow the floodgates to open for new cryptocurrency adopters, and with the growing trend of higher end GPU and APU integration into cheaper machines, I believe this will allow Ultracoin to adopt a wider market of curious enthusiasts. Lastly, I am also looking for someone who has experience with phpMyAdmin for some Word Press related site work, if anyone can volunteer a hand please feel free to reach me. More updates are to come.

Sincerely,

Steven "Rapture" Nekhaila
Ultracoin Development Team
Steven@Ultracoin.net
Ultracoin.net


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usukan
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April 20, 2016, 06:26:04 AM
 #3622

stay focused.........







RE - ANNOUNCING



The Ultracoin Contest

(new and improved thanks to the generosity of PaulR1)



Just for fun - lets have a contest!

Its like this............

Guess the day that UTC hits 2000 ea (0.00002 BTC per UTC) - on Bittrex

Win 25,000 UTC = 50 million Satoshi = 0.5 BTC

Guesses in UTC time of course. UTC = Coordinated Universal Time.

Guesses must be date/hour/minute in UTC time.

Only 1 (one) "guess" per registered forum member.

No votes after price hits 1500 (0.000015 BTC per UTC).  I will call the cut off time on this forum to avoid any unnecessary confusion.

The closest guess wins.

To claim - just re-post your guess on this forum when you think you have won. Include your UTC deposit address.  If you don't claim (re-post your guess) - you won't be considered for the prize.

I will check claims and make plump the wallet of the winner from the UTC pot funds.

Discussion not entered into and my decision will be final. Trolls excluded from entry.  Those are the terms and conditions that you accept on entry.

May the best guess win.

https://twitter.com/official_utc


Cheers - usukan



The pot has been deposited into this virgin and dedicated UTC address

UVDBhGnp9n8P6hwC4kyHa3iJsXdVhmJEA5

Courtesy of usukan
Status: 15 confirmations
Date: 1/03/2016 10:45
From: unknown
To: UVDBhGnp9n8P6hwC4kyHa3iJsXdVhmJEA5 (own address)
Credit: 5000.00 UTC
Net amount: +5000.00 UTC
Transaction ID: aa8b40d2b25a076964e704fad08b1fbfb2e67af4d28117b3dba3fa3767866e9d

Courtesy of PaulR1
Status: 13 confirmations
Date: 1/03/2016 11:31
From: unknown
To: UVDBhGnp9n8P6hwC4kyHa3iJsXdVhmJEA5 (own address)
Credit: 20000.00 UTC
Net amount: +20000.00 UTC
Transaction ID: 8a796b26d22e635189fc91857ffce9fa0cb912ff3493b272f0f05d66ec722a24

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April 20, 2016, 07:34:38 AM
 #3623

May I humbly suggest we add a provision to reduce the stake reward from 5.2% to 2.6% at block height 5-6,000,000 and again at subsequent intervals? The reasoning behind the PoS reduction is to match the PoW tapering. Large exchanges and whales love high PoS for a reason, and it does bring in a lot of investors, which is why I believe it is a great idea to have the PoS for now, but keep in mind that in the future when Ultracoin is much more popular, a high PoS will result in inflation. Obviously the whole network will never come near a 100% wallet uptime with staking enabled, but I believe it is a good idea to look 1, 5, 10, even 50 years into the future. How we lay the framework now will effect the years to come, and I believe with the proper forethought put in now we can avoud future hard forks, or worse, be tethered to the decisions of the past. I see coin ceilings and coin creation as something to be very calculated with, like a young person with a credit card deciding when to start saving for retirement, instant gratification can overshadow long term consequences.

I can't believe it, but I agree with rapture333.

The popularity and push of PoS stems from a very simplistic, visceral, shallow view that coins that earn interest, in the creation of new coins, will provide the holders with more value. It is a theoretical myth at best. It seems that virtually no one, in crypto or anywhere else, understands that earning interest on what you hold means absolutely nothing when that system results in the coin decreasing in value relative to other currencies, coins, commodities. Besides, what makes a coin special under a pure PoS construct? It is something that can be replicated easily, and PoS clones don't have to worry about competing with monstrous networks backed by massive resources.

The way UTC is currently (and YACoin), PoW will eventually be negligible to PoS in terms of coin generation. YAC and UTC might as well just go full PoS at that point since it is essentially what it would be. The idea of having matching PoS and PoW inflation rates is a good idea. It is a nice middle ground to those putting hardware and energy into the network and those who like the idea of PoS--who despise, misunderstand mining.

YaCoin: YL5kf54wPPXKsXd5T18xCaNkyUsS1DgY7z 
BitCoin: 14PFbLyUdTyxZg3V8hnvj5VXkx3dhthmDj
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April 21, 2016, 11:34:17 PM
 #3624

I agree with decreasing PoS rewards theory and if possible code that in right now. Although i don't believe in looking forward into future and make decisions right now more than a year in crypto space that evolves rapidly. I think we should rather have a vision of what the project really wants to achieve like "stable PoW n/w, lots of nodes, acceptance at retailers in specific vertical business segment" & a purpose like "Being a currency with quick confirmations" and base our coding & policy decision on those. As the industry shifts and new solutions become available we can always fork & change but to keep the vision & purpose, not for other reasons. I think what is going on with bitcoin debate is just that, they have a vision of keeping bitcoin as decentralized as possible over quick expansion. Otherwise everyone agrees that bitcoin needs to increase blocksize. I think this will help with getting rid of unnecessary changes.

Also for fullnodes PoS rewards are a big incentive so we should balance the reduction in such way that people are incentivised to run fullnodes.

PS: above are just examples to explain what i have in mind when i say purpose/vision. vision IMO should be more abstract. That is a bad example of vision lol.
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April 22, 2016, 04:09:06 AM
 #3625

Thanks for your input sambiohazard - pretty much agree with all you present here.

If we are looking at reducing POS reward by blocks 5-6m - thats 4-6 maybe more years out from now - so we will be making future decisions and no doubt forking before then anyway.  As such its redundant to code into the coin now IMO.

What I have proposed is a table of POW and POS reward expectations that we put on the table - and we review these at least annually or as required.

In my opinion the POW rewards (10/block) are about right now - so we need to maintain these without reducing to give incentive to mining. POW adds about 13% new coins per year.

POS at 2% is at best responsible for adding 2% of new coins per year.  This is not balanced with mining at 13%.
Increasing POS reward (actually reverting to the previous reward) to 5.2% (as this new fork will do) addresses this imbalance (but does not equalise it) and POS and POW will drift toward parity, naturally (over several years - about 3 years) - even if we don't adjust anything from this new upcoming fork.

The POS 5.2% increases incentive to hold - thats important to UTC in the development stages we are in right now.

POS stays naturally at 5.2% inflation irrespective of growing total coin amount - POW % contribution to new coins (inflation) declines as coin total amount grows.  So in 12 months time POW contribution will be about 10% - in 2 years maybe about 8%.

(I really don't like the word INFLATION because of the negative FIAT connotations - but there is no substitute.  The big difference between FIAT and UTC/BTC etc is that most Crypto are ultimately limited in total amount/total supply.  FIAT is not limited. Inflation in the crypto world is really about how fast you get to the ceiling.  FIAT has no ceiling - eg Zimbabwe, Ecuador, etc etc - just an inflation moonshot then collapse.)

Its about 2-3 years that we need to look closely at adjusting both POW and POS rewards again - but our decisions should be based on the environment the coin is in then - and our vision and purpose.  So again - hard-wiring changes out beyond 2-3 years, in the code now is a redundant exercise IMO.

I am quite sure our vision and purpose will evolve dramatically over 2-3 and 3-8 years.  We will need to keep evolving UTC to fit best with these visions and future purpose - and not limit ourselves by coding our expectations now. Its about managing our trajectory towards the ceiling and maintaining value to all stakeholders (users, miners, nodes, merchants and stakers etc) along the way.

Its a complex issue that really cannot be totally resolved to everyone's satisfaction - only managed well to maintain relevance and best value to stakeholders as a whole.

We have in Crypto - one camp that says everything needs to be hard-wired so everyone knows what to expect in the future and value can be theorised. (this is what started all the BTC issues)
The other camp (Camp 2) says that we need to be flexible and evolve the coin to better fit current and future requirements.

You might notice that in the end for the Bitcoin case both camps ended up in Camp 2 - Both Core and Classic are now proposing a myriad of changes including block size.

I am confident we have all our bases covered for the next few years with the upcoming UltraCoin fork.

Cheers - usukan



I agree with decreasing PoS rewards theory and if possible code that in right now. Although i don't believe in looking forward into future and make decisions right now more than a year in crypto space that evolves rapidly. I think we should rather have a vision of what the project really wants to achieve like "stable PoW n/w, lots of nodes, acceptance at retailers in specific vertical business segment" & a purpose like "Being a currency with quick confirmations" and base our coding & policy decision on those. As the industry shifts and new solutions become available we can always fork & change but to keep the vision & purpose, not for other reasons. I think what is going on with bitcoin debate is just that, they have a vision of keeping bitcoin as decentralized as possible over quick expansion. Otherwise everyone agrees that bitcoin needs to increase blocksize. I think this will help with getting rid of unnecessary changes.

Also for fullnodes PoS rewards are a big incentive so we should balance the reduction in such way that people are incentivised to run fullnodes.

PS: above are just examples to explain what i have in mind when i say purpose/vision. vision IMO should be more abstract. That is a bad example of vision lol.

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April 22, 2016, 10:25:02 AM
 #3626

sailing soon







or miss the boat

Cheers - usukan

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April 22, 2016, 11:39:55 AM
 #3627

sailing soon



or miss the boat


Nothing binding; I am pining
For the journey that will take me over the moon.

I’m sailing soon, above the moon
And flying through the heaven’s blue
And too, I’m hoping you decide to choose
And sail the Milky Way with me..


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|
WINGS           
Where DAO Unicorns are born
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1st Bitcoin & Ethereum DAO for DAOs
1st Decentralized Chatbot to Smart Contracts Interaction System

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Wings Bounties Earn Eggs
X-Blockchain DAO

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April 22, 2016, 11:57:28 AM
 #3628

Thanks Alenevaa - I'm rather keen on poetry

this reminds me sometimes of UltraCoin

If—
Rudyard Kipling

 If you can keep your head when all about you
   Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
   But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
   Or, being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don’t give way to hating,
   And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
   If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
   And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
   Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
   And stoop and build ‘em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
   And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
   And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
   To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
   Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on”;

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
   Or walk with kings—nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
   If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run—
   Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!






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alenevaa
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April 22, 2016, 12:13:21 PM
 #3629

This poem is a celebrated piece of poetry. Thank you for reminding me of that!

Thanks Alenevaa - I'm rather keen on poetry

this reminds me sometimes of UltraCoin

If—
Rudyard Kipling

 If you can keep your head when all about you
   Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
   But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
   Or, being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don’t give way to hating,
   And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
   If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
   And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
   Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
   And stoop and build ‘em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
   And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
   And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
   To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
   Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on”;

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
   Or walk with kings—nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
   If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run—
   Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!



██████████████████████
████████████████████████
████████████████████████
████████████████████████
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████████████████████████
███████████████████████
██████████████████████
|
WINGS           
Where DAO Unicorns are born
|
.
1st Bitcoin & Ethereum DAO for DAOs
1st Decentralized Chatbot to Smart Contracts Interaction System

|
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Wings Bounties Earn Eggs
X-Blockchain DAO

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April 22, 2016, 12:20:23 PM
 #3630

'Auguries of Innocence' by WILLIAM BLAKE is my favourite poem.

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour...

██████████████████████
████████████████████████
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████████████████████████
████████████████████████
███████████████████████
██████████████████████
|
WINGS           
Where DAO Unicorns are born
|
.
1st Bitcoin & Ethereum DAO for DAOs
1st Decentralized Chatbot to Smart Contracts Interaction System

|
.
Wings Bounties Earn Eggs
X-Blockchain DAO

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April 23, 2016, 12:47:59 AM
 #3631

UPDATE - The New UltraCoin

PressTab has finished the codebase.

This includes:
 - a general tidy up of codebase
 - fix retargeting issues
 - change staking code to liteStake
 - change POS reward to 5.2%


Steven will arrange a schedule with PressTab for the forking.

A few of us will be testing the beta version for staking and other wallet operations shortly.

Steven will get back and advise the Community and other stakeholders of the schedule for the fork.

Almost there now - and all thanks to PressTab.

LETS GET FORKING








Cheers - usukan

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April 24, 2016, 11:23:01 PM
 #3632

Update

We are just waiting on Steven to finalise the schedule for the fork with PressTab.

From here it will be announced and the new wallet will be distributed.


Cheers - usukan

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April 25, 2016, 03:04:21 AM
 #3633

Talking with Steven - he seems to be keen on coding in the POS rewards out to blocks 3m (2 years), 4m (4 years) and 8m (12 years approx) at this upcoming fork.

We may need to address the POW rewards at the same timeframes (block heights) also.

Steven will post his proposal shortly.

I am happy to go with the Community consensus on this.


Cheers - usukan

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April 25, 2016, 11:51:49 AM
 #3634

Full proof of stake? Didn't bumface suggest that three years ago and was removed from the dev team for suggesting such a ridiculous thing?  Roll Eyes
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April 25, 2016, 11:54:54 AM
 #3635

Full proof of stake? Didn't bumface suggest that three years ago and was removed from the dev team for suggesting such a ridiculous thing?  Roll Eyes

If I understand it correctly no one is suggesting full proof of stake  Roll Eyes

UTC UTC UTC
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April 25, 2016, 12:43:25 PM
 #3636

Full proof of stake? Didn't bumface suggest that three years ago and was removed from the dev team for suggesting such a ridiculous thing?  Roll Eyes

If I understand it correctly no one is suggesting full proof of stake  Roll Eyes
The whole point of Scrypt N is to get progressively harder, not stay static. You need to get somebody who can actually code and go for a chained algo that can be tweaked when needed. Just my two pennies..
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April 25, 2016, 05:29:04 PM
 #3637

what is the last stable version, i downloaded last version but it crashes on startup
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April 25, 2016, 09:20:50 PM
 #3638

Correct - there is no plan to go full POS - AT ALL

Full proof of stake? Didn't bumface suggest that three years ago and was removed from the dev team for suggesting such a ridiculous thing?  Roll Eyes

If I understand it correctly no one is suggesting full proof of stake  Roll Eyes

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April 25, 2016, 09:21:30 PM
 #3639

Thanks volyova

we have discussed this and are happy with N 14 or 15

Yes - PressTab knows how to code - maybe he could help out at Vertcoin?  Who is the Dev there now?  I can't seem to find one anymore?

Cheers

Full proof of stake? Didn't bumface suggest that three years ago and was removed from the dev team for suggesting such a ridiculous thing?  Roll Eyes

If I understand it correctly no one is suggesting full proof of stake  Roll Eyes
The whole point of Scrypt N is to get progressively harder, not stay static. You need to get somebody who can actually code and go for a chained algo that can be tweaked when needed. Just my two pennies..

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April 25, 2016, 09:31:42 PM
Last edit: April 25, 2016, 09:42:40 PM by usukan
 #3640

Good question nesic1 - and thats why we are having PressTab fix up the wallet.

It was a dog......

This is the last stable version
http://ultracoin.net/dl/UltraCoinQT_win32_v7.4.1-9.zip
It works fine for some - and for others hogs too many resources and crashes.

This will all be fixed when the new wallet is released in a couple of weeks.

Retargeting, staking and code in general has a complete makeover

Cheers - usukan



what is the last stable version, i downloaded last version but it crashes on startup

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