Scientific proof that God exists?

[bl4kjaguar]

It's a spritual/soul thing.
The burden of proof is on you to prove the connection between this and god.
NDE's do not prove god in anyway, shape or form.

As I have mentioned, to prove the survival (or soul) hypothesis would discredit humanism...

Since all atheists are humanists (and all humanists reject rebirth/survival/spirit), then accepting the survival hypothesis is the same as accepting that all atheists (humanists) are mistaken.

Since there are only two possible answers to the god-question: either atheism or theism, then
The mistaken answer/category is atheism/atheists, and therefore
theism is the correct answer and god exists.

I point you to Phoenix Journals to learn about the connection between god and soul...

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[bl4kjaguar]

If you are using the premise that no one understands quantum mechanics to assert a conclusion bearing on human knowledge, then I am afraid that your argument is lost on me.

In other words, such a network is unable to distinguish between a veridical perception and an hallucination. Doing so would require the existence of another, independent network, whose task it is to learn to associate specific input patterns with specific patterns of activity of the first network’s hidden units. That system would then be able to identify cases where the latter exists in the absence of the former, and hence, to learn to distinguish between cases of veridical perception and cases of hallucination. Such internal monitoring is viewed here as constitutive of conscious experience: A mental state is a conscious mental state when the system that possesses this mental state is (at least non-conceptually) sensitive to its existence. Thus, and unlike what is assumed to be case in HOT Theory, meta-representations can be both subpersonal and non-conceptual.

Nothing, there, provides for the acquisition of an accurate “knowledge” of anything (e.g., quanta)—intrinsic (to the brain) or otherwise.

Hey username18333, I would like to reject your Thesis because:
1) If our brains are only a high-tech computer-like lump of tissue which produces our mind and personality, why does it bother to create illusions at the time of death?
2) Even if NDE elements can be reduced to only a series of brain reactions, this does not negate the idea that NDEs are more than a brain thing.
3) Your Thesis includes assumptions that survival is impossible even though survival has not been ruled out.
4) You can see that the materialism of Dennett, which you promote, is refuted by Nagel's common sense.
5) You are simply projecting your ignorance. To prove that all atheists (humanists) are mistaken, it is enough that I point to the observations which strongly support the survival hypothesis. This leaves only theism as a viable answer to the God-question.

Like I have mentioned...
Skepticism of psychic phenomena is based more on a religion of materialism than on hard science.

Many researchers use scientific reductionism to reduce everything to its most basic elements. There is no doubt that the near-death experience involves the mind/brain connection, but to say that the mind is nothing more than a brain and chemicals is to assume a lot.

[bl4kjaguar]

So where is YOUR non-god explanation for the afterlife?

There is no afterlife.  It was made up by people who don't understand or are scared of death.

Hi Vod; remember how this conversation started?

Stevenson's study is completely reproducible which means that anybody who doubts the validity of this study is perfectly welcome to repeat it for themselves.
http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html#a39

Did I give you what you wanted?

[username18333]

1) If our brains are only a high-tech computer-like lump of tissue which produces our mind and personality, why does it bother to create illusions at the time of death?

Even color is a hallucination: it is begotten, in part, of the collapse of the probability waves of light quanta.

[BitMos]

In god - we trust! Other pay cash 

and the smarter barter, it's tax free .

[BurgerKill]

So where is YOUR non-god explanation for the afterlife?

There is no afterlife.  It was made up by people who don't understand or are scared of death.

so what you believe if there is no afterlife? on me afterlife is there.

[SlickMoTwoToe]

So where is YOUR non-god explanation for the afterlife?

There is no afterlife.  It was made up by people who don't understand or are scared of death.

so what you believe if there is no afterlife? on me afterlife is there.

Where is your evidence for an afterlife? I don't think NDEs would count as the person is not even dead yet - therefore they are still a product of life and not afterlife. Just like people wou take drugs and hallucinate are still alive but still seeing weird things.

[cryptodevil]

If any one reads the Phoenix Journals, then invariably s/he will choose to conclude that the Journals are the WORD. Then, one will understand that GOD IS. MAN PLACES LIMITATIONS--GOD HAS NONE! Here are some highly relevant quotes:

Oh wow, I hadn't even realised quite how unhinged you truly are Jag! So some delusional lunatic posts about how he is an inter-dimensional being and you, what, just believe him?

Is that how it works or are you claiming there's actual evidence that he is an inter-dimensional galactic commander?

So you will simply conclude that Hatonn is wrong without even reading his writings?

Because the writings at that link are as unhinged as you are. Someone claiming to be an inter-dimensional galactic commander is already clearly suffering from a delusional mind state. One look at the collection of fanciful and entirely arbitrary claims being made attempting to paint some weird history involving numerous inter-dimensional beings, reads like the kind of crap L. Ron Hubbard wrote.

And why do you not respond to John Lennox and Thomas Nagel, both of whom emphasize the absurdity of atheism? Your response just doesn't add up!

They can emphasize it as much as they want, it doesn't make for a cogent argument. Your sources of reference are not credible and you are simply attempting to rebut the challenges to your absurd assertions by way of providing links which you assume are sufficient to objectively support your position.

They are not and they do not.

Try actually offering up a reasonable argument to support your bizarre assertions instead of using those links like BADecker continually does with his, equally useless, links to unsupported and unsound assertions.

Both of you utterly fail to make your case and so you resort to posting dishonest responses as though they were accepted facts even though they contain nothing of the sort.

[bl4kjaguar]

Someone claiming to be an inter-dimensional galactic commander is already clearly suffering from a delusional mind state.

How would you KNOW? I see that you have used an ad-hominem instead of responding to the content.

A delusional being would speak falsely, so where is the being speaking falsely? You have not yet given an adequate reason for rejecting the existence of God's messengers, so your argument is unsound.

I provided links to reputable academic journals which support the idea that "life is more than just complicated chemistry", and also pointed you to AECES top 40, where serious academic observations are recorded. Furthermore, you can replicate Dr. Stevenson's study all by yourself, as I have pointed out to Vod. Therefore, you will please go and respond to each of these points before calling my assertions dishonest.

Also,
Skepticism of psychic phenomena is based more on a religion of materialism than on hard science. That is why you use an ad-hominem attack against both Hatonn and I.

[bl4kjaguar]

So where is YOUR non-god explanation for the afterlife?

There is no afterlife.  It was made up by people who don't understand or are scared of death.

so what you believe if there is no afterlife? on me afterlife is there.

Where is your evidence for an afterlife? I don't think NDEs would count as the person is not even dead yet - therefore they are still a product of life and not afterlife. Just like people wou take drugs and hallucinate are still alive but still seeing weird things.

Even if NDEs do not count, you can see the evidence for past lives in Stevenson's research and the Eisenbeiss case, among others:
http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml
http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html#a39

NDEs do count as evidence; NDEs are different from hallucinations;
There is no reason to believe that NDEs are the result of psychiatric pathology or brain dysfunction.
People have been clinically dead for several days.
NDEs change people unlike hallucinations and dreams
NDEs cannot be explained by brain chemistry alone.

[bl4kjaguar]

1) If our brains are only a high-tech computer-like lump of tissue which produces our mind and personality, why does it bother to create illusions at the time of death?

Even color is a hallucination: it is begotten, in part, of the collapse of the probability waves of light quanta.

NDEs correspond with the "quirky" principles found in physics.
The transcendent nature of minds in NDEs corresponds with physics,

[bl4kjaguar]

Someone claiming to be an inter-dimensional galactic commander is already clearly suffering from a delusional mind state.

How would you KNOW? I see that you have used an ad-hominem instead of responding to the content.

Cryptodevil, please consider Nagel's assertion that materialism—the idea that everything can be explained (eventually) in terms of physics—actually fails to do just that. Nagel always backs up his assertions; how about you?

Nagel insists that we know some things to exist even if materialism omits or ignores or is oblivious to them . . . It doesn’t explain, for example, why the world exists at all, or how life arose from nonlife. Closer to home, it doesn’t plausibly explain the fundamental beliefs we rely on as we go about our everyday business: the truth of our subjective experience, our ability to reason, our capacity to recognize that some acts are virtuous and others aren’t. These failures, Nagel says, aren’t just temporary gaps in our knowledge, waiting to be filled in by new discoveries in science. On its own terms, materialism cannot account for brute facts. Brute facts are irreducible, and materialism, which operates by breaking things down to their physical components, stands useless before them. “There is little or no possibility,” he writes, “that these facts depend on nothing but the laws of physics.”

[bl4kjaguar]

Someone claiming to be an inter-dimensional galactic commander is already clearly suffering from a delusional mind state.

How would you KNOW? I see that you have used an ad-hominem instead of responding to the content.

I suggest you reference Journal 21, Chapter 3 and Journal 31, Chapter 13; I propose the straightforward idea that God has come to speak with you and I through these Journals.

My proposal is modest; if this thread would but read, the truth about man and god would be known.

HATONN LIES
Readers, I and my secretary are continually called liars and bigots and every other bad name you can conjure. How so? Because I bring you that which is offered about your globe?? I don't have to go forth into the "universe" to find invisible stories to lay on you--if these be LIES--WHOSE LIES ARE THEY?? I AM BUT AN INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER!! SO BE IT.

A rehash of other's opinion and interpretations is worthless. This is precisely why I give none of my scribe's opinions and always can back up statements with facts.
Excellent opportunity to get our material forth, however, for controversy of evil with truth is excellent for Aton does not often become faint at heart!

Why do you send correspondence and messages to me (and you did so), unless you want a response? Further, did you expect me to sit and feed you back the lies simply because you assume "THIS RECEIVER" TO BE UNINFORMED AND PLAYING THE SAME OLD GAME OF "DUPE THE PUBLIC"?

[bl4kjaguar]

The only realistic answer to the question, 'What is God?,' is that 'God' is only an idea representing whatever people want it to mean. 'God,' as a concept, has so many different meanings to so many different people throughout history that it is really useless to talk about the idea of a God until empirical evidence for such a Supreme Being or Consciousness can be discovered.

[Videlicet]

The point in which duality recognizes neutrality.

[the joint]

As long as you maintain science as your main god, you are going to have a hard time in understanding the real God.

God is so "great" that such a question can't apply. Asking such a question is expressing ignorance more than simply saying something like, "God is way beyond my understanding."

Again, how can something be understood yet be way beyond our understanding?

Don't bother trying to answer, you'll only be dishonest again.

When the thing being understood has explained itself in little tiny ways that we can understand.

Tell me again how your deity 'explains' itself and why this explanation is a reasonable data set with which to formulate an hypothesis.

Or is it that you actually mean your subjective experience, coupled with fistfuls of bronze-age anecdotal tales?

Since you want to remain ignorant about God, I wouldn't want to take your ignorance away from you. In the event that there you have some slight sincere question, my info at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395 shows that God exists beyond anything that science without my info can show one way or another. If you really want to find out what it is all about, start reading the New Testament in the Bible, and finish up with the Old Testament.

Oh badecker, how many times have you posted your shitty link? No one accepts that as proof yet you still want to post it

You're talking to someone who thinks an inductive fallacy is about poor electrical superconductors.

Just a friendly warning

...

Just curious, though. You have said in the past (if I didn't misunderstand) that you believe that God exists. Why do you believe? Or is it simply that you do, and the answer as to why isn't easy to say?

I'll repeat myself for the one- or two-dozenth time:

I believe in God because I believe Intelligent Design is logically necessary.  In other words, I believe in God because I have reasoned that God exists inasmuch as Intelligent Design exists.

So, again, you and I share something in common, i.e. we both believe in God.

But again, I remind you and your goldfish-like memory that, despite the fact we generally both believe in God, your reasons for believing God exists are atrocious, inconsistent, contradictory, and generally do not make sense at all.  It's unfortunate that you dedicate so much time to wrongful thinking instead of trying to learn.   If you spent more time understanding why literally every person who reads your posts, regardless of whether they are an atheist or a theist, knows that you're completely full of shit, you wouldn't continue to embarrass yourself.

Every argument of yours sucks, and sucks hard.

[username18333]

The transcendent nature of minds in NDEs corresponds with physics,

Since matter is now seen as a form of energy, an energy body alternative to the material body could explain the NDE.

Energies do not have the traits of quarks (e.g., the up and down quark) and leptons (e.g., the electron) that (are generally known to quantum mechanics to) permit them the (at least, physical) constitution of a Homo sapiens sapiens.

[bl4kjaguar]

STOP honoring evil

If you want to know GOD
You have a good chance of proving to yourself that God exists if you get married.
YES, You stand a good chance of proving to yourself that God exists if you get married!

Here is a guide!

http://marriagemissions.com/navigating-stages-of-marriage-marriage-message-255-2/

Pascal would suggest to you to get married so that you might become a Christian. LOVE is real, and anyone can prove that to themselves as well!

Search this text for 'wager' for a better understanding of Pascal's wager:
http://library.atgti.az/categories/philosophy/R.Sorensen%20-%20A%20Brief%20History%20of%20the%20Paradox.pdf

This site is for grieving parents, victims of spiritual and emotional trauma, and others struggling to understand this spiritual journey we call life.

[Vod]

Such simple proof of no god or powerless god.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1038125.msg11199612#msg11199612

[Tallech]

no scientific! just god! )))