Scientific proof that God exists?

[BADecker]

Are we still on this?!

Because you can't understand or don't know means nothing about God. You're just trying to claim to have negative evidence! I can't prove there's no God on the very same way you can't prove there's no Santa or no Bigfoot.

The only way you might be able to scientifically prove that there is no God, is if you can prove one or more of the following 3 scientific law to be false:
1. Cause and effect/action and reaction/Newton's 3rd Law;
2. Universal entropy;
3. Universal complexity, although it is waning.

When you combine the above 3 universal laws, you will find that the only way that we could have the kind of universe that we have, is through something like what we call "God" causing it to exist. God may be nothing like what we generally envision Him to be. Rather, He is exceedingly great and powerful beyond all understanding.

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[BCEmporium]

Basically you refuse to accept you're a random monkey that evolved in a random reaction somewhere in the Cosmos, so "it must be God".
Your statement still falls under "negative evidence". At best you can aim for a "probability" of any sort of intelligent source, if you want to create a big conspiracy theory using games theory, but no further than that.

[1aguar]

Your teaching is wicked and evil in trying to hide the evident things of salvation as the Bible teaches them, from everybody who listens to your garbage.

As I said, there is some truth in everything. Afterlife truth is the most important. If your writings don't proclaim Jesus of the Bible as the way to salvation, but proclaim some other way, then your writings are false, even if they have many particles of truth in them.

Hi BADecker,
You suffer from a fanatical refusal to think correctly with regards to obtaining knowledge; you think all truth is contained within one book. I must inform you that the message of that book was dramatically altered by Paul, and this is backed up by modern Biblical scholarship; for details and references, listen to the "First Christians" audios here.

Even the NAME of your "savior" was changed by Paul: The name "Jesus" was not appended to Esu Emmanuel until after he was no longer in the "Holy Land". That is a totally fabricated label given (historically authenticated) by Saul of Tarsus (Paul) during his travels in Greece.

You do not use reason (thus, you end up contradicting yourself as pointed out by Buffer Overflow); you only care about what is written in your book!! You do not love me by throwing your book at me and telling me that I am going to Hell; remember that Emmanuel said "As I have loved you, so you must love one another"; he never said "believe that I am your savior"; Emmanuel said that God's kingdom and laws are within YOU, not in the Torah! Yours is not Christian behavior but the mere denouncing of a brother efforting to find his God Truth. I cannot count how many times I have asked you to learn more about the "First Christians" so that you may be aware of how the teachings of Christ were changed. You have been given the wrong information and you accept that interpretation "on faith", i.e. without thought or reason, but notice how it is the interpretation that the 'authorities' want you to have so that you can go back to sleep and forget about your responsibility to God and your fellow man. Christ realized that God was within him and he tried to TEACH you that God is within you too; you cannot rely on another to take your responsibility for following the laws:

I suggest that I cannot overemphasize my role in this "Plan". It is not my being which has any merit--it is my oneness with Creator which is represented in your language as "Christ Knowing"--the label makes no difference be it pronounced differently in all and every language. I repeat something that you perhaps missed in your following of incorrect information givers. EXCEPT THROUGH ME (CHRIST ACTIONS AS GIVEN IN BALANCE; THE LAWS OF HARMONY AND BALANCE OF THE GREAT SPIRIT AND MOTHER/FATHER CREATION/CREATOR), SHALL YE PASS INTO THE PERFECTION OF THE SO-CALLED HOUSE OF GOD. You may tout and preach anything you wish--but I SHALL DECIDE, WITH MY BRETHREN OF THE LIGHTED BROTHERHOOD--WHO WILL COME ABOARD "MY CLOUD".

You tell us that Jesus has forgiven you, so there is no need to be responsible for your actions; however, forgiveness of actions is not the same thing as condoning lack of responsibility! Furthermore, you cannot arrive at "GOD" by following a MAN--any MAN, not even a "Jesus". You find GOD by following the CHRIST "way" toward all things and actions chosen, intended and honored. You don't get to choose to be saved by accepting the "Son of God"; that is magical thinking; that is a corruption of Jesus's teachings that was introduced by Paul, as I have stated many times. Christ never wrote down his teachings, so we have to use reason and think critically about the early Christians.

Like I said: Maybe your way and "wisdom" didn't work? Maybe you are judging me and telling me that I am going to Hell because you forgot about that part in the Bible where Emmanuel says "don't judge" and "love one another".

[1aguar]

Basically you refuse to accept you're a random monkey that evolved in a random reaction somewhere in the Cosmos, so "it must be God".
Your statement still falls under "negative evidence". At best you can aim for a "probability" of any sort of intelligent source, if you want to create a big conspiracy theory using games theory, but no further than that.

I am not a monkey; I am a soul, and I have a body. I have asked atheists in this thread to rationally evaluate the evidence for life after death. Where is your rational response?

Evidence of life after death and corresponding proof of God: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.5300

[BADecker]

Your teaching is wicked and evil in trying to hide the evident things of salvation as the Bible teaches them, from everybody who listens to your garbage.

As I said, there is some truth in everything. Afterlife truth is the most important. If your writings don't proclaim Jesus of the Bible as the way to salvation, but proclaim some other way, then your writings are false, even if they have many particles of truth in them.

Hi BADecker,
You suffer from a fanatical refusal to think correctly with regards to obtaining knowledge; you think all truth is contained within one book. I must inform you that the message of that book was dramatically altered by Paul, and this is backed up by modern Biblical scholarship; for details and references, listen to the "First Christians" audios here.

Even the NAME of your "savior" was changed by Paul: The name "Jesus" was not appended to Esu Emmanuel until after he was no longer in the "Holy Land". That is a totally fabricated label given (historically authenticated) by Saul of Tarsus (Paul) during his travels in Greece.

You do not use reason (thus, you end up contradicting yourself as pointed out by Buffer Overflow); you only care about what is written in your book!! You do not love me by throwing your book at me and telling me that I am going to Hell; remember that Emmanuel said "As I have loved you, so you must love one another"; he never said "believe that I am your savior"; Emmanuel said that God's kingdom and laws are within YOU, not in the Torah! Yours is not Christian behavior but the mere denouncing of a brother efforting to find his God Truth. I cannot count how many times I have asked you to learn more about the "First Christians" so that you may be aware of how the teachings of Christ were changed. You have been given the wrong information and you accept that interpretation "on faith", i.e. without thought or reason, but notice how it is the interpretation that the 'authorities' want you to have so that you can go back to sleep and forget about your responsibility to God and your fellow man. Christ realized that God was within him and he tried to TEACH you that God is within you too; you cannot rely on another to take your responsibility for following the laws:

I suggest that I cannot overemphasize my role in this "Plan". It is not my being which has any merit--it is my oneness with Creator which is represented in your language as "Christ Knowing"--the label makes no difference be it pronounced differently in all and every language. I repeat something that you perhaps missed in your following of incorrect information givers. EXCEPT THROUGH ME (CHRIST ACTIONS AS GIVEN IN BALANCE; THE LAWS OF HARMONY AND BALANCE OF THE GREAT SPIRIT AND MOTHER/FATHER CREATION/CREATOR), SHALL YE PASS INTO THE PERFECTION OF THE SO-CALLED HOUSE OF GOD. You may tout and preach anything you wish--but I SHALL DECIDE, WITH MY BRETHREN OF THE LIGHTED BROTHERHOOD--WHO WILL COME ABOARD "MY CLOUD".

You tell us that Jesus has forgiven you, so there is no need to be responsible for your actions; however, forgiveness of actions is not the same thing as condoning lack of responsibility! Furthermore, you cannot arrive at "GOD" by following a MAN--any MAN, not even a "Jesus". You find GOD by following the CHRIST "way" toward all things and actions chosen, intended and honored. You don't get to choose to be saved by accepting the "Son of God"; that is magical thinking; that is a corruption of Jesus's teachings that was introduced by Paul, as I have stated many times. Christ never wrote down his teachings, so we have to use reason and think critically about the early Christians.

Like I said: Maybe your way and "wisdom" didn't work? Maybe you are judging me and telling me that I am going to Hell because you forgot about that part in the Bible where Emmanuel says "don't judge" and "love one another".

Why should I keep on playing your stupid game with you?, since you suffer from the inability to think Godly.

[1aguar]

Wait a second BADecker, I just told you that you were not using reason, and you are accusing me of not thinking?

You find GOD by following the CHRIST "way", as you so aptly quoted from Psalms 1.
You don't get to choose to be saved by accepting the "Son of God"; that is "magical thinking".
If you will not think upon the audio I referenced, I will summarize it for you:
The early Christians practiced "Jewish Messiahnism", they were a Jewish sect, not a separate religion.
Christian Gnosticism grew up along "mainstream" Christianity and these two were of equal validity in the early church. One was chosen over the other for political reasons. Actually, the term "Christian" came much later, from Syria.
Now, with all of the confusion in this late-day Christian belief, you denounce Hatonn as Satanic because he wishes to go back and believe the Christ teachings coming forth from holy GOD as a form of life being-ness, emotional sanctity and goodness according to the golden rule?

 

[BADecker]

Wait a second BADecker, I just told you that you were not using reason, and you are accusing me of not thinking?

You find GOD by following the CHRIST "way", as you so aptly quoted from Psalms 1.
You don't get to choose to be saved by accepting the "Son of God"; that is "magical thinking".
If you will not think upon the audio I referenced, I will summarize it for you:
The early Christians practiced "Jewish Messiahnism", they were a Jewish sect, not a separate religion.
Christian Gnosticism grew up along "mainstream" Christianity and these two were of equal validity in the early church. One was chosen over the other for political reasons. Actually, the term "Christian" came much later, from Syria.
Now, with all of the confusion in this late-day Christian belief, you denounce Hatonn as Satanic because he wishes to go back and believe the Christ teachings coming forth from holy GOD as a form of life being-ness, emotional sanctity and goodness according to the golden rule?

 

The proof of your insincerity comes across almost every time you post in response to me. Constantly you are stating that I said things that I did not. Constantly you are taking things out of contest that I say. Constantly you are asking me "this or that" questions that have little to do with anything that I was speaking about.

Imagine for a minute, that your Journals are something that you are filling yourself on, spiritually. This means that they are training you to attempt manipulation, to cloud the issue, to spread falsehood about the things which we speak of.

Even if you are not caught up in intentionally making a bunch of lies, you are being directed to do so, automatically, by your adherence to the principles in the Journals. That isn't something that God teaches. That is expressly the thing that the devil teaches.

Wake up and see how you are being used, ultimately to your own destruction.

[1aguar]

You say that Jesus is savior but I have no proof of your claim.
You say that the Bible is inerrant but I have not seen the proof.
You say that I am going to hell and that I am destroying myself, but how is that so?
You say that the journals are false but how exactly would that work?
You say that jesus saves us but to me this sounds like magical thinking.
You uttered a contradiction about free will, and did not clarify, so to me it sounds like you are spreading confusion.

[BADecker]

You say that Jesus is savior but I have no proof of your claim. That's okay. You wouldn't accept the proof if it came right up to you and bit you in the eye.
You say that the Bible is inerrant but I have not seen the proof. Religion isn't about proof. It is about strong evidence.
You say that I am going to hell and that I am destroying myself, but how is that so? How many times do I have to tell you this? If you won't accept the work Jesus Christ did for you on the cross, you will never get into Heaven!
You say that the journals are false but how exactly would that work? How many times do I have to tell you this? If anything expresses a way to Heaven other than through Jesus Christ and the work He did on the cross, it is falsehood.
You say that jesus saves us but to me this sounds like magical thinking. You are so funny.    The Journals express way more magic-like thinking than the Bible ever could.
You uttered a contradiction about free will, and did not clarify, so to me it sounds like you are spreading confusion. Since you haven't mentioned the supposed contradiction, everybody who reads this totally accepts as truth the thing you say - NOT.

[BCEmporium]

I am not a monkey; I am a soul, and I have a body. I have asked atheists in this thread to rationally evaluate the evidence for life after death. Where is your rational response?

Evidence of life after death and corresponding proof of God: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.5300

Afterlife?! Soul?!
Afterlife drags you to the afterlife paradox: You would need to die in that life after life, or the place will be overcrowded. No matter if you believe that you go to the Magical Tropical Island of the Christians or to the "Fuckdise" of Muslims. And not only such place would be overcrowded as you would be sharing your space with people from ancient times, even ISIL makes better neighbors than them!
The religions believing on reincarnation are the only ones not falling to this paradox, all "paradise-based" ones do.

As for soul, what do you call it or why do you think you've it and other animals don't? You dream? Well, sorry to break your supremacist belief there, other animals dream too.

For all that science can tell you (and me or anyone else from this planet reading this) are an animal, part of the Animalia kingdom, and despite the cognitive abilities, not biologically different from many other species of mammals.
"Rub your ego" is part of the scam, not only religious scam, but scams in general. All scammers will use your vanity, will tell you "how smart and lucky you are" by join their rig, the very same way religions tells you to be "crown of creation", "son of God", "chosen people"...

[Bitfundit]

http://youtu.be/o4prBWqOGdM

This guys say you can meet your dead relatives in heaven....sure you want to?

[1aguar]

I am not a monkey; I am a soul, and I have a body. I have asked atheists in this thread to rationally evaluate the evidence for life after death. Where is your rational response?

Evidence of life after death and corresponding proof of God: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.5300

Afterlife?! Soul?!
Afterlife drags you to the afterlife paradox: You would need to die in that life after life, or the place will be overcrowded. No matter if you believe that you go to the Magical Tropical Island of the Christians or to the "Fuckdise" of Muslims. And not only such place would be overcrowded as you would be sharing your space with people from ancient times, even ISIL makes better neighbors than them!
The religions believing on reincarnation are the only ones not falling to this paradox, all "paradise-based" ones do.

This is not about religion, the survival hypothesis is about scientific evidence and observations that supports the survival of some part of the personality. It is a well-defined and well-verified hypothesis, it escapes such paradoxes and all you must do is evaluate the evidence for yourself; I have linked 52 points for your review.

As for soul, what do you call it or why do you think you've it and other animals don't? You dream? Well, sorry to break your supremacist belief there, other animals dream too.

And do other animals also have death-bed visions, verifiable past-life memories, veridical near-death experiences, etc.? Again, a review of the evidence is helpful.

For all that science can tell you (and me or anyone else from this planet reading this) are an animal, part of the Animalia kingdom, and despite the cognitive abilities, not biologically different from many other species of mammals.

You are ignoring the study of consciousness, it is obvious that you have not read the evidence in any detail; I have provided you with scientific references; you can start with the research of Dr. Stevenson for it is particularly strong.

Reincarnation has been called by some to be the greatest unknown scientific discovery today. In the last chapter of Dr. Ian Stevenson's book entitled Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation (1967), he provides rigorous scientific reasoning to show how reincarnation is the only viable explanation that fits the facts of his study. He considers every possible alternative explanation for his twenty cases of young children who were spontaneously able to describe a previous lifetime as soon as they learned to talk. He was able to rule out each alternative explanation using one or more aspects of these cases. Later research has even bolstered his case in favor of the existence of reincarnation. His study is also completely reproducible which means that anybody who doubts the validity of this study is perfectly welcome to repeat it for themselves. I believe it is only a short matter of time before his discovery of the existence of reincarnation is finally realized by the scientific community and the world to be accepted as one of the greatest scientific discoveries of all time.

"Rub your ego" is part of the scam, not only religious scam, but scams in general. All scammers will use your vanity, will tell you "how smart and lucky you are" by join their rig, the very same way religions tells you to be "crown of creation", "son of God", "chosen people"...

Honestly, I think your ego is getting in the way of your review of the evidence; kindly consider all 50+ points and get back to me:
http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html

[1aguar]

Hi BADecker, I am using Christ as a name to more easily communicate, but it is incorrect since Christ is not a name, it is a state of emotional sanctity and goodness according to the golden rule. Remember what Sananda said: "It is not my being which has any merit--it is my oneness with Creator which is represented in your language as 'Christ Knowing'"

You say that Jesus is savior but I have no proof of your claim. That's okay. You wouldn't accept the proof if it came right up to you and bit you in the eye. That's because no one can save another, no one can take responsibility for another; to be blessed, one has to meditate on God's law day and night (Psalms 1).
Was this "man", Jesus--THE WAY? No, that is not what he said. He said that through the CHRIST way was the only passage to our Father. And now, we don't even REMEMBER the way.

You say that the Bible is inerrant but I have not seen the proof. Religion isn't about proof. It is about strong evidence. I have provided evidence that souls are reborn (e.g. Dr. Stevenson's research); we get more than just one life here. I have strong evidence that everything in the Journals is absolute truth and confirmed, and while you claim I will go to Hell, I pronounce nothing "on" you except to say that the world is in chaos and mainstream Christian wisdom hasn't worked. Your ancient book leaves much to be desired, for example it has confused everyone about "I and my father are one" when really there is NO NEED to be confused about this; Christ came to show us the way, he could not "save" anyone because each soul must be responsible for saving itself (Psalms 1).

You say that I am going to hell and that I am destroying myself, but how is that so? How many times do I have to tell you this? If you won't accept the work Jesus Christ did for you on the cross, you will never get into Heaven! I don't think Christ ever said anything like that, and how can another man do my work for me anyway? If I meditate on God's law day and night, THEN I will be blessed (Psalms 1).

You say that the journals are false but how exactly would that work? How many times do I have to tell you this? If anything expresses a way to Heaven other than through Jesus Christ and the work He did on the cross, it is falsehood. How can I save myself just through a belief? That is magical thinking! Your claim is not different from saying "think positively and you will manifest everything you could desire". Actually, the truth is that you cannot be blessed unless you meditate upon the law of God day and night (Psalms 1).

You say that jesus saves us but to me this sounds like magical thinking. You are so funny.    The Journals express way more magic-like thinking than the Bible ever could. The Journals are open truth; your Bible has all kinds of hidden messages, and it has been rewritten, and Paul's teachings were added, and you posit a hidden (occult) motive to explain why Jesus said "they say as much" at his trial. God is open, the truth is laid bare in the Journals, and your only issue with them is that they contradict the doctrine of Paul. Like I said, Christian Gnosticism has an equal claim to authentic faith, having grown up alongside the mainstream, and the first Christians were merely Jews who believed that Emmanuel was the Jewish Messiah, and this is confirmed by modern scholarship on the subject. If there is magic or mysticism in the Journals, you would have to point it out to me explicitly as I have found none. The main point of the Journals is to explain to you the Laws (Journal #27) and then you can be blessed because now you have the Laws upon which you can meditate day and night (Psalms 1).

You uttered a contradiction about free will, and did not clarify, so to me it sounds like you are spreading confusion. Since you haven't mentioned the supposed contradiction, everybody who reads this totally accepts as truth the thing you say - NOT. Post 5341.

[1aguar]

The Reality and Presence of Sananda (One WITH God) is explained in Chapter 2 of Journal #32; it is well worth it to read the entire chapter; here are some brief quotations to introduce the content:

WHAT WAS I?

You have historically chosen to label me as "Jesus" or the "Christ" and or----! I simply AM. But what did I come forth to tell you as that entity sent from my own Creator? Well, I came to tell you of the coming of the Kingdom of Heaven, what men must do to prepare for it and a type of "salvation" through knowledge of the Truth and Presence of God. The message has been entangled and falsely presented but it is the only lasting historical record of which you retain continuity. There is so much of my journey that you have not been allowed to share and KNOW--but that, too, is now coming forth for the time is at hand for the KNOWING.

CONTRADICTIONS

I realize that words spoken--for all was put to notes by human (I never wrote and writing was difficult at its very best)--were sometimes ambiguous and contradictory. That is why I am come forth now for in the centuries of interim perception Man has been taught incorrectly. Things such as the Kingdom will come and "it is already here" is a bit of a contradiction. The prophecy of world's end and Kingdom of Heaven relates to a cosmic event. It relates to the world but it is the event by which the world ceases to be, in intervention in history, whereby history is broken off. The Kingdom of God is neither world nor history, nor is it this world's hereafter. It is something entirely different.

[BCEmporium]

1aguar,

Absence of evidence != proof

We've no clue what other animals dreams with, we just know they do. So you just assume they don't dream of their death by any reason?
Chimps are now in a human-equivalent stone age, in a few thousand years they can evolve to a complex society as we do.

And what about near-death? You hallucinate if one of the basic needs of your brain is short, what does that prove? Nothing! We've many "miracles" and "apparitions" around the planet from people under severe deprivation or drug effects, but we may notice that never Jesus appeared to a Muslim as never Muhammad does to a Christian.

There are things we do not know, and for those maybe one day we will, maybe not. But the best thing to do about it is to assume: we don't know, other than come out with far fetched "it was Godly" arguments.

[actmyname]

If there is no meaning in life without afterlife, then there is no meaning in afterlife without afterlife-life.

[1aguar]

1aguar,

Absence of evidence != proof

You must be confused, I referenced 52 points of evidence; that is hardly an "absence" of evidence!!

And what about near-death? You hallucinate if one of the basic needs of your brain is short, what does that prove? Nothing!

NDEs are different from hallucinations.
NDEs change people unlike hallucinations and dreams.
NDEs cannot be explained by brain chemistry alone.
People having NDEs are convinced they saw an afterlife (Regardless of their prior attitudes).
The skeptical "dying brain" theory of NDEs has major flaws.
Skeptical arguments against NDEs are not valid.
Scientific evidence of reincarnation supports an afterlife.
NDEs support the reality of reincarnation.
etc.

[BCEmporium]

Religious pricks from the XX Century, that seeks to fit their data into their agenda?
I can provide maybe 1000 "points" from the XIX Century stating the same! Leave alone those of XVIII Century.
 

The only point that site makes, is that looks like an obituary and most likely many of those "docs" are already experiencing a PDE (Post Death Experience).

[1aguar]

Religious pricks from the XX Century, that seeks to fit their data into their agenda?
I can provide maybe 1000 "points" from the XIX Century stating the same! Leave alone those of XVIII Century.
 

The only point that site makes, is that looks like an obituary and most likely many of those "docs" are already experiencing a PDE (Post Death Experience).

Excuse me? This thread is about science and evidence, and I have yet to see a rational reply from you.

Reincarnation has been called by some to be the greatest unknown scientific discovery today. In the last chapter of Dr. Ian Stevenson's book entitled Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation (1967), he provides rigorous scientific reasoning to show how reincarnation is the only viable explanation that fits the facts of his study. He considers every possible alternative explanation for his twenty cases of young children who were spontaneously able to describe a previous lifetime as soon as they learned to talk. He was able to rule out each alternative explanation using one or more aspects of these cases. Later research has even bolstered his case in favor of the existence of reincarnation. His study is also completely reproducible which means that anybody who doubts the validity of this study is perfectly welcome to repeat it for themselves. I believe it is only a short matter of time before his discovery of the existence of reincarnation is finally realized by the scientific community and the world to be accepted as one of the greatest scientific discoveries of all time.

[BCEmporium]

1967... 
Guess we will have to wait for the next batch of children to born to repeat the experience. Oh, wait!...