[XMR] Monero Speculation

[N-rG]

@TrueCryptonaire

I totally agree in every point
I just dont have to work  and just enjoy studying the cryptos and increase my asset.

Real Estates in my country are not as a good deal as to cryptos.

Its not tax free. We have to pay lawyers, notaries, land transfer tax, regular taxes, accommodation broker and services. Than strict laws when you let to someone you have the risk that they dont pay and even than you cannot just kick them out.

Moreover than the GOV knows excatly how much money you have invested. You sell, you are again in the cicle of paying taxes.

Investing in XMR is for the moment the most attractive one. I admit, i love money and what i like more is just more money. So its just numbers. Invest or example 250k lets say per week 2% growth is 5.000 EUR per week.
Now its getting interesting (i know all of you can calulate this, but i like to see these numbers  )
You dont calc. now 4*12*5000 which makes 240.000 profit.

Its 250.000*1,02^n with n = 48 it give me 646.767,69 EUR per year. Real estates are not even close to 200% profit per year. Its more like 4-12%

So even one who only invest 10.000$ its still ~25.900 after 12 month  

In my country I have to pay ~35% taxes on profit on stock exchanges and still the risk of losing money.

And again the GOV knows excatly how much money I have. I dont want that.

Besides these monetary facts i also like to support cryptos.

[TrueCryptonaire]

@TrueCryptonaire

I totally agree in every point
I just dont have to work  and just enjoy studying the cryptos and increase my asset.

Real Estates in my country are not as a good deal as to cryptos.

Its not tax free. We have to pay lawyers, notaries, land transfer tax, regular taxes, accommodation broker and services. Than strict laws when you let to someone you have the risk that they dont pay and even than you cannot just kick them out.

Moreover than the GOV knows excatly how much money you have invested. You sell, you are again in the cicle of paying taxes.

Investing in XMR is for the moment the most attractive one. I admit, i love money and what i like more is just more money. So its just numbers. Invest or example 250k lets say per week 2% growth is 5.000 EUR per week.
Now its getting interesting (i know all of you can calulate this, but i like to see these numbers  )
You dont calc. now 4*12*5000 which makes 240.000 profit.

Its 250.000*1,02^n with n = 48 it give me 646.767,69 EUR per year. Real estates are not even close to 200% profit per year. Its more like 4-12%

So even one who only invest 10.000$ its still ~25.900 after 12 month  

In my country I have to pay ~35% taxes on profit on stock exchanges and still the risk of losing money.

And again the GOV knows excatly how much money I have. I dont want that.

Besides these monetary facts i also like to support cryptos.

As I said, apparently you are not familiar with appartments/real estates/commercial estates.
You can get the highest return on this area if you know what you are doing (basically infinite returns).
The list you made is just an excuse not to invest and go out of comfort zone. 

[N-rG]

Than tell us excatly how to make infinity returns.

[TrueCryptonaire]

Than tell us excatly how to make infinity returns.

Use other people's money (banker) in investing and put the tenant to pay all the costs + ammortization.
Use 100 % financing.

[vokain]

Than tell us excatly how to make infinity returns.

Use other people's money (banker) in investing and put the tenant to pay all the costs + ammortization.
Use 100 % financing.

if a lack of tenants that are able to pay this rate occurs in the market, as well as a lack of buyers willing to buy real estate at at least par values, what happens?

[TrueCryptonaire]

Than tell us excatly how to make infinity returns.

Use other people's money (banker) in investing and put the tenant to pay all the costs + ammortization.
Use 100 % financing.

if a lack of tenants that are able to pay this rate occurs in the market, as well as a lack of buyers willing to buy real estate at at least par values, what happens?

Don't buy such pains in your ass. Obviously you do your due diligence before buying any investment.

Real estate/appartments/commercial space is more a business than investment so some sort of entrepreneurial skills (organizing skills) are needed.

[nanobrain]

Than tell us excatly how to make infinity returns.

Use other people's money (banker) in investing and put the tenant to pay all the costs + ammortization.
Use 100 % financing.

if a lack of tenants that are able to pay this rate occurs in the market, as well as a lack of buyers willing to buy real estate at at least par values, what happens?

Don't buy such pains in your ass. Obviously you do your due diligence before buying any investment.

Real estate/appartments/commercial space is more a business than investment so some sort of entrepreneurial skills (organizing skills) are needed.

Just a couple of points.

1. NRG said "in my country" but didn't state which country...since different countries have different rules and regs, so how do you know these are 'excuses'. I know this is a rather radical idea, but how about listening to other forum members.

2. The idea of 100% finance and selling the dream of being a landlord is one of the reasons for the GFC.  Amazingly, your attitude was actually shared by millions of people in 2008 - it will never happen to me, cause I'm so clever. Your smug tone makes me hope you get over-extended and it all collapses.

3. Also, one of the reasons for social inequality in many countries is the rise of what I would call this 'new feudalism' which you propose; young people can't get on the property 'ladder' because the greedy and rapacious own 4, 6, 8 houses or units. 

[ozkraut]

Than tell us excatly how to make infinity returns.

Use other people's money (banker) in investing and put the tenant to pay all the costs + ammortization.
Use 100 % financing.

if a lack of tenants that are able to pay this rate occurs in the market, as well as a lack of buyers willing to buy real estate at at least par values, what happens?

Don't buy such pains in your ass. Obviously you do your due diligence before buying any investment.

Real estate/appartments/commercial space is more a business than investment so some sort of entrepreneurial skills (organizing skills) are needed.

Just a couple of points.

1. NRG said "in my country" but didn't state which country...since different countries have different rules and regs, so how do you know these are 'excuses'. I know this is a rather radical idea, but how about listening to other forum members.

2. The idea of 100% finance and selling the dream of being a landlord is one of the reasons for the GFC.  Amazingly, your attitude was actually shared by millions of people in 2008 - it will never happen to me, cause I'm so clever. Your smug tone makes me hope you get over-extended and it all collapses.

3. Also, one of the reasons for social inequality in many countries is the rise of what I would call this 'new feudalism' which you propose; young people can't get on the property 'ladder' because the greedy and rapacious own 4, 6, 8 houses or units.  

I second all that. Its a sucker entry into debt slavery. Selling off our kids for an illusion of gain.
The days of 100% finance seem well an truly ovanyways unless one enters into very sub optimal arrangements.
Nothing has been fixed since 08. They literally put a Tarp over it and called it such. It will be pulled any day now. Woe to all who are highly leveraged. Its a beautiful system of real wealth consolidation using fiat as bait. Why didnt I think of that?

[explorer]

Leveraged shorts stacking up...  Or a lot of XMR has been pulled from the lending market....  Happens every time the big bidders withdraw.  3100 BTC bids,  3100 BTC 24h volume.  Hmmm.

[TrueCryptonaire]

Than tell us excatly how to make infinity returns.

Use other people's money (banker) in investing and put the tenant to pay all the costs + ammortization.
Use 100 % financing.

if a lack of tenants that are able to pay this rate occurs in the market, as well as a lack of buyers willing to buy real estate at at least par values, what happens?

Don't buy such pains in your ass. Obviously you do your due diligence before buying any investment.

Real estate/appartments/commercial space is more a business than investment so some sort of entrepreneurial skills (organizing skills) are needed.

Just a couple of points.

1. NRG said "in my country" but didn't state which country...since different countries have different rules and regs, so how do you know these are 'excuses'. I know this is a rather radical idea, but how about listening to other forum members.

2. The idea of 100% finance and selling the dream of being a landlord is one of the reasons for the GFC.  Amazingly, your attitude was actually shared by millions of people in 2008 - it will never happen to me, cause I'm so clever. Your smug tone makes me hope you get over-extended and it all collapses.

3. Also, one of the reasons for social inequality in many countries is the rise of what I would call this 'new feudalism' which you propose; young people can't get on the property 'ladder' because the greedy and rapacious own 4, 6, 8 houses or units. 

1. It is very likely there are opportunities. In different countries the opportunities are different type. The beautiful thing in real estate investing is that there is no one way to do it.

2. 2008 people bought empty houses in hope of rise in value. If you do your stuff in right manner you are able to become millionaire. However, it will happen with 10 000 XMR faster than in real estates (unless you get "lucky").

3. If you dream of home-ownership, then buy a home you can afford to buy. Take 20 mortgage, pay off it a few years, then refinance/buy better home. In that manner a young person can start climbing the latters of home ownership in current monetary system. If you want to become rich/wealthy/financially independent it is smart to play with the rules, not against the rules.

[TrueCryptonaire]

Than tell us excatly how to make infinity returns.

Use other people's money (banker) in investing and put the tenant to pay all the costs + ammortization.
Use 100 % financing.

if a lack of tenants that are able to pay this rate occurs in the market, as well as a lack of buyers willing to buy real estate at at least par values, what happens?

Don't buy such pains in your ass. Obviously you do your due diligence before buying any investment.

Real estate/appartments/commercial space is more a business than investment so some sort of entrepreneurial skills (organizing skills) are needed.

Just a couple of points.

1. NRG said "in my country" but didn't state which country...since different countries have different rules and regs, so how do you know these are 'excuses'. I know this is a rather radical idea, but how about listening to other forum members.

2. The idea of 100% finance and selling the dream of being a landlord is one of the reasons for the GFC.  Amazingly, your attitude was actually shared by millions of people in 2008 - it will never happen to me, cause I'm so clever. Your smug tone makes me hope you get over-extended and it all collapses.

3. Also, one of the reasons for social inequality in many countries is the rise of what I would call this 'new feudalism' which you propose; young people can't get on the property 'ladder' because the greedy and rapacious own 4, 6, 8 houses or units.  

I second all that. Its a sucker entry into debt slavery. Selling off our kids for an illusion of gain.
The days of 100% finance seem well an truly ovanyways unless one enters into very sub optimal arrangements.
Nothing has been fixed since 08. They literally put a Tarp over it and called it such. It will be pulled any day now. Woe to all who are highly leveraged. Its a beautiful system of real wealth consolidation using fiat as bait. Why didnt I think of that?

If you do not feel comfortable financing 100 % (essentially you need to own something else anyway to do it in current environment).

If you are first home buyer, then probably the best way to start is simply save the nest egg of 10% 20 % 30 % 40 % or 50 % and the rest borrow from the bank. Bear in mind, the loan negotiations with bank are relatively painless if you have a nest egg (track record of taking good care of your personal finances). Banks are more than willing to lend money to good borrowers who will repay and will not default. Default is not in the best interest of banks but a good repayer.

That being said, I agree than crypto with no debt is far better system than the fiat system which is built upon greater fool principles when it comes to taking debt. However, I am just a small fish in the ocean and I have no power to change anything, therefore it is better to play with the rules and borrow for 1 % and earn 10 %.

[TrueCryptonaire]

Back to speculation:

I opened a chart from since beginning of September (the final big leg before current consolidation period).
I see lower highs and higher lows. Therefore I am expecting some major volume hitting the coin in 1-2 weeks from now. The charts are not obviously bullish nor bearish so I think it is pretty much 50 % chance to go up or 50 % chance to go down, give or take.
However, if it goes down, it is not permanent and it is considered an excellent buying opportunity to buy some major amounts of coins. If it goes down, it might be also tempting to buy more (in the beginning of rise it is nice to have more coins rather than less coins).

Fundamentals are bullish but technicals are neutral.

[Febo]

Monero is quite intriguing to me but I have yet to purchase any coins. I'm thinking of buying a handful in case it does go to the moon in the future, but I'm too unsure to grab a ton. I'm definitely watching and waiting because I'm fairly certain something will happen with this coin, but I believe it could go both ways.

You dont need to grab a ton.
Buy few coins. Hold them 2 years and you will be able to have nice vacations with the profit.
Or buy as much coins you would spend for a vacation now and you will be able to buy new car in 2 years time.
Or ...

[el testosteron]

Are any of you guys worried that governments might try and succeed to do something to monero or even bitcoin that can hurt their value?

[Febo]

Are any of you guys worried that governments might try and succeed to do something to monero or even bitcoin that can hurt their value?

What they will do is tax economy that si building around crypto. Governments that will tax them last will gain most since Crypto economy wil move to their countries.

[N-rG]

GOV has not advance of "crypto"...

Best thing for GOV are cashless payments they can observe and control. In the EU for example was just few weeks ago a debate to force to cashless payments. The first step is already made: To the end of 2018 they'll stop producing the 500 EUR banknote ( https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2016/html/pr160504.en.html )

So exactly what we and most of the people dont want (except ordinary people who really dont care about privary or anything which is little related to criminal things even fiscal evasion)

The little man, working 12h per day for little money, driving exactly to speed limit, paying everything as he should, beeing ordinary and spend money for everything what is necessary to be part of the mainstream...that's our guy which is and will never be interested in cryptos. (exaggerated)

Thats why i think that GOV will forbid soon or later ordinary companies to either use/accept cryptos (because they cannot control it) or will put extras tax on it.

But doesnt change anything that more and more people are going to use cryptos

Edit:

btw. i see atm a problem with the volume at XMR.

[el testosteron]

The volume sitting at 3000?

[nioc]

^^volumne has been ~3000 for a few days
volume on almost all coins on polo is lower than usual
that is recent usual

[TrueCryptonaire]

There is optional publicity which enables also "honest" trading (trading that has been taxed). Monero is very much like cash - cash can be anonymous if it is not tracked but it can be public if it is tracked. So far governements have not forbidden using cash... I see the future of Monero very similar and I hope Monero is not too much associated with criminal activities because that is the very thing which might cause some misunderstandings among the regulators and thus they might want to ban Monero with no sufficient information.

[el testosteron]

I thought monero in spite of low btc volume with this highish price was good news. Enlighten me if I'm wrong