[XMR] Monero Speculation

[neilol-real]

Gotta love the 80+% premine of bcn too.

Kwuck you a XMR supporter? How did I miss that one

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[Febo]

Gotta love the 80+% premine of bcn too.

Kwuck you a XMR supporter? How did I miss that one

Not on this forum, but deep inside his soul he is.

[Nathan047]

P.S. I'm still srsly of the opinion that as *soon* as multi-sig hits, we will see coinbase announce XMR as their next coin...  

Monero on Coinbase? I know that Coinbase wouldn’t be able to see where the money came from, but otherwise none of Monero’s privacy features would be helpful (Coinbase could keep a log of where you send your money, and probably would). Besides, I just don’t think that Coinbase an anonymity go well together, although I guess I could be wrong...

[KeyJockey]

... don’t think that Coinbase an anonymity go well together, although I guess I could be wrong...

Aaaaaahhhhh goddammit *THIS* again... when oh when are ppl gonna get offa this fucking 'anonymity' focus and REALIZE that Monero is best because of FUNGIBILITY (a critical necessary absolutely essential aspect of what makes it possible for *anything* to be used as actual "currency")

The happy accident that makes full honest-to-God fungibility just conveniently also provide untraceable anonymity ain't the point. That's just a lucky nice bonus that we get BUT it's NOT THE POINT OF MONERO AT ALL in fact.

Srsly we monero-early-adopters really have GOT to GODDAMN get ON this message much STRONGER.

We have to kill this constant newbie focus on "Oh, Monero? That's an anon coin, right?" and really try harder to flog the Fun-fun-Fun-FUNGIBILITY understanding.

[cAPSLOCK]

To that point...

In some ways Monero is no different than physical cash.  You deposit it at the bank, they have a record.  You withdraw it... they have a record.  In the same way you buy Monero at Coinbase. they have a record.  You sell it, they have a record.  Deposit it... they have a record, withdraw it... they have a record.  They follow their AML/KYC stuff and they know what they need to know about their customer.

The differences are this.  Did your Monero come from a Poker site?  No one knows.  Coinbase doesn't know.  So there is no need to blacklist it.  I don't think Coinbase really wants to have to be the police.  They want to be an on/offramp for crypto.

Coinbase would be crazy not to want to support fungible crypto.  It would make their lives lots easier.

And it leaves the police work to the police.

[Hueristic]

... don’t think that Coinbase an anonymity go well together, although I guess I could be wrong...

Aaaaaahhhhh goddammit *THIS* again... when oh when are ppl gonna get offa this fucking 'anonymity' focus and REALIZE that Monero is best because of FUNGIBILITY (a critical necessary absolutely essential aspect of what makes it possible for *anything* to be used as actual "currency")

The happy accident that makes full honest-to-God fungibility just conveniently also provide untraceable anonymity ain't the point. That's just a lucky nice bonus that we get BUT it's NOT THE POINT OF MONERO AT ALL in fact.

Srsly we monero-early-adopters really have GOT to GODDAMN get ON this message much STRONGER.

We have to kill this constant newbie focus on "Oh, Monero? That's an anon coin, right?" and really try harder to flog the Fun-fun-Fun-FUNGIBILITY understanding.

I agree but it's so repetitive you just start ignoring things when you see them repeated over and over. For instance I just get sick of repeating fundamentals like trusted setup and centralization (hence mutability) go against all the tenants of the creation of CC.

To that point...

In some ways Monero is no different than physical cash.  You deposit it at the bank, they have a record.  You withdraw it... they have a record.  In the same way you buy Monero at Coinbase. they have a record.  You sell it, they have a record.  Deposit it... they have a record, withdraw it... they have a record.  They follow their AML/KYC stuff and they know what they need to know about their customer.

The differences are this.  Did your Monero come from a Poker site?  No one knows.  Coinbase doesn't know.  So there is no need to blacklist it.  I don't think Coinbase really wants to have to be the police.  They want to be an on/offramp for crypto.

Coinbase would be crazy not to want to support fungible crypto.  It would make their lives lots easier.

And it leaves the police work to the police.

True and they have actually shown a little backbone by fighting lea's blanket request for user info.

[generalizethis]

... don’t think that Coinbase an anonymity go well together, although I guess I could be wrong...

Aaaaaahhhhh goddammit *THIS* again... when oh when are ppl gonna get offa this fucking 'anonymity' focus and REALIZE that Monero is best because of FUNGIBILITY (a critical necessary absolutely essential aspect of what makes it possible for *anything* to be used as actual "currency")

The happy accident that makes full honest-to-God fungibility just conveniently also provide untraceable anonymity ain't the point. That's just a lucky nice bonus that we get BUT it's NOT THE POINT OF MONERO AT ALL in fact.

Srsly we monero-early-adopters really have GOT to GODDAMN get ON this message much STRONGER.

We have to kill this constant newbie focus on "Oh, Monero? That's an anon coin, right?" and really try harder to flog the Fun-fun-Fun-FUNGIBILITY understanding.

Fungibility is a hard concept to grasp as many think it is either on/off or since cash's fungibility is broke (in specific cases of kyc laws being abided), then nothing has to be fungible to work.

[Nathan047]

To that point...

In some ways Monero is no different than physical cash.  You deposit it at the bank, they have a record.  You withdraw it... they have a record.  In the same way you buy Monero at Coinbase. they have a record.  You sell it, they have a record.  Deposit it... they have a record, withdraw it... they have a record.  They follow their AML/KYC stuff and they know what they need to know about their customer.

The differences are this.  Did your Monero come from a Poker site?  No one knows.  Coinbase doesn't know.  So there is no need to blacklist it.  I don't think Coinbase really wants to have to be the police.  They want to be an on/offramp for crypto.

Coinbase would be crazy not to want to support fungible crypto.  It would make their lives lots easier.

And it leaves the police work to the police.

Okay, I see where it would be useful to have on coinbase. I was thinking of it from more of a wallet standpoint, not a place to buy and then send elsewhere, I was wrong.

Still though, the anonymity of Monero is it’s biggest selling point and the only reason it’s more fungible than Bitcoin. If it weren't for anonymity then Monero would just be another useless altcoin. The big focus IS on anonymity -- some people use that anonymity for fungiblility (like me), others for committing crime. What you choose to use the anonymity for is up to you, but regardless of why you use it the main point is to have an untraceable currency.

[Globb0]

What happened to the price, bitcoin has recovered now but we have stuck at the lower level.

As usual I was too scared to trade an obvious top.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Still though, the anonymity of Monero is it’s biggest selling point and the only reason it’s more fungible than Bitcoin.

Duh. Could there be any other reason? Anonymity is the only way to guarantee fungibility in decentralized money.

If it weren't for anonymity then Monero would just be another useless altcoin.

You mean besides Monero's elastic block size and tail emission, right? Or are you saying there's no value in being able to scale on chain without years of political drama and contentious forks? I'm pretty sure Bitcoin would disagree.

What about Monero's CPU-friendly PoW? There's no value in that? The Pirate Bay and CBS's ShowTime seem to disagree with you there. I'm sure there will be more.

[CTTE]

To that point...

In some ways Monero is no different than physical cash.  You deposit it at the bank, they have a record.  You withdraw it... they have a record.  In the same way you buy Monero at Coinbase. they have a record.  You sell it, they have a record.  Deposit it... they have a record, withdraw it... they have a record.  They follow their AML/KYC stuff and they know what they need to know about their customer.

The differences are this.  Did your Monero come from a Poker site?  No one knows.  Coinbase doesn't know.  So there is no need to blacklist it.  I don't think Coinbase really wants to have to be the police.  They want to be an on/offramp for crypto.

Coinbase would be crazy not to want to support fungible crypto.  It would make their lives lots easier.

And it leaves the police work to the police.

Okay, I see where it would be useful to have on coinbase. I was thinking of it from more of a wallet standpoint, not a place to buy and then send elsewhere, I was wrong.

Still though, the anonymity of Monero is it’s biggest selling point and the only reason it’s more fungible than Bitcoin. If it weren't for anonymity then Monero would just be another useless altcoin. The big focus IS on anonymity -- some people use that anonymity for fungiblility (like me), others for committing crime. What you choose to use the anonymity for is up to you, but regardless of why you use it the main point is to have an untraceable currency.

Remember, as soon as it is off of Coinbase and in your wallet it can't be traced.  You always need an on and off ramp to and from fiat if you're going to transact in fiat and that applies to any crypto.  The only way that doesn't apply is when you mine it yourself and if you buy and sell items directly without any conversion to fiat, right?

 

[cAPSLOCK]

To that point...

In some ways Monero is no different than physical cash.  You deposit it at the bank, they have a record.  You withdraw it... they have a record.  In the same way you buy Monero at Coinbase. they have a record.  You sell it, they have a record.  Deposit it... they have a record, withdraw it... they have a record.  They follow their AML/KYC stuff and they know what they need to know about their customer.

The differences are this.  Did your Monero come from a Poker site?  No one knows.  Coinbase doesn't know.  So there is no need to blacklist it.  I don't think Coinbase really wants to have to be the police.  They want to be an on/offramp for crypto.

Coinbase would be crazy not to want to support fungible crypto.  It would make their lives lots easier.

And it leaves the police work to the police.

Okay, I see where it would be useful to have on coinbase. I was thinking of it from more of a wallet standpoint, not a place to buy and then send elsewhere, I was wrong.

Still though, the anonymity of Monero is it’s biggest selling point and the only reason it’s more fungible than Bitcoin. If it weren't for anonymity then Monero would just be another useless altcoin. The big focus IS on anonymity -- some people use that anonymity for fungiblility (like me), others for committing crime. What you choose to use the anonymity for is up to you, but regardless of why you use it the main point is to have an untraceable currency.

I think around these parts you will not see Coinbase described as a wallet.  At least not in the sense that users of Monero would use the word Wallet.  

A wallet where you do not control the private key is a loan.
A wallet where you do not control the private key is a counter party risk.

Now, Coinbase is about as reputable an exchange as you will be able to find.  And in my opinion they would be the last to exit scam (so many dark markets), become an illiquid fractional reserve (Gox, Cryptsy, etc), or get busted by law enforcement (BTC-e).  So your money as about as safe there as it can possibly be considering it is ENTIRELY under someone else's control.  

Which frankly is not safe enough for me.

So for me... if Coinbase ever becomes a Monero exchange, I will likely use them some.  But I will never hold my crypto there.

[cAPSLOCK]

The big focus IS on anonymity -- some people use that anonymity for fungiblility (like me), others for committing crime. What you choose to use the anonymity for is up to you, but regardless of why you use it the main point is to have an untraceable currency.

Turn that around.  Some people use the lack of anonymity in crypto for crime.  Blackmail, extortion, spying, theft are a few crimes that come to mind.

[SolarStorm]

The big focus IS on anonymity -- some people use that anonymity for fungiblility (like me), others for committing crime. What you choose to use the anonymity for is up to you, but regardless of why you use it the main point is to have an untraceable currency.

Turn that around.  Some people use the lack of anonymity in crypto for crime.  Blackmail, extortion, spying, theft are a few crimes that come to mind.

Both are important. Fungibility so you cant accidentally get 'tainted' coins, and anonymity to protect yourself.

[smooth]

To that point...

In some ways Monero is no different than physical cash.  You deposit it at the bank, they have a record.  You withdraw it... they have a record.  In the same way you buy Monero at Coinbase. they have a record.  You sell it, they have a record.  Deposit it... they have a record, withdraw it... they have a record.  They follow their AML/KYC stuff and they know what they need to know about their customer.

The differences are this.  Did your Monero come from a Poker site?  No one knows.  Coinbase doesn't know.  So there is no need to blacklist it.  I don't think Coinbase really wants to have to be the police.  They want to be an on/offramp for crypto.

Coinbase would be crazy not to want to support fungible crypto.  It would make their lives lots easier.

And it leaves the police work to the police.

Okay, I see where it would be useful to have on coinbase. I was thinking of it from more of a wallet standpoint, not a place to buy and then send elsewhere, I was wrong.

Still though, the anonymity of Monero is it’s biggest selling point and the only reason it’s more fungible than Bitcoin. If it weren't for anonymity then Monero would just be another useless altcoin. The big focus IS on anonymity -- some people use that anonymity for fungiblility (like me), others for committing crime. What you choose to use the anonymity for is up to you, but regardless of why you use it the main point is to have an untraceable currency.

I agree it is a focus and perhaps the primary focus but Monero also has other distinguishing characteristics from Bitcoin, most mentioned (generally with their own section headers) in the original Cryptonote white paper:

1. Flexible block size (rather than a hard coded constant that can only be changed politically)
2. Egalitarian mining
3. Replacing inefficient bulky scripts (not very significant ATM since RingCT txs are naturally large, but they are still bit smaller than they would otherwise be; perhaps they may become significant again if the improvements can make the txs smaller again).
4. Smoothly varying difficulty for more consistent emission
5. Tail reward to avoid mining incentive and other problems (not from the white paper, added later)

[johnalan]

XPM  vs  XMR ?  XM type coins are going to skyrocket XPM is only 3400!! :-D weeeee

re.match(ur'X.*M.*', ticker) && exchange.sweepBuy(ticker, wallet.shutupAndTakeMyMoney())

Now that is a novel form of factor analysis.  And I had thought I had seen them all.  Good thing XMR has alphabetic priority!

RuffCT (alternative RingCT2.0)
Multi-sig in coming release
recent fundraising success

These are huge.  I do not want to be caught with insufficient Monero in April.  The question is: when do the front-runners kick in?  It would be reasonable to expect some ongoing retracement (3-4 weeks?) until they see some magic fib level and support kicks in.  .0178 would be a gift from heaven, 50% off the high.  I would be borrowing money again at that point.  More realistically the 38.2% at ,0220 would be near the support level expected from hashrate supply restriction, comparing support levels at hashrates in July and in (almost) October.

Agreed - I'm quite shocked we fell below 0.027 FWIW

[gembitz]

XPM  vs  XMR ?  XM type coins are going to skyrocket XPM is only 3400!! :-D weeeee

re.match(ur'X.*M.*', ticker) && exchange.sweepBuy(ticker, wallet.shutupAndTakeMyMoney())

Now that is a novel form of factor analysis.  And I had thought I had seen them all.  Good thing XMR has alphabetic priority!

RuffCT (alternative RingCT2.0)
Multi-sig in coming release
recent fundraising success

These are huge.  I do not want to be caught with insufficient Monero in April.  The question is: when do the front-runners kick in?  It would be reasonable to expect some ongoing retracement (3-4 weeks?) until they see some magic fib level and support kicks in.  .0178 would be a gift from heaven, 50% off the high.  I would be borrowing money again at that point.  More realistically the 38.2% at ,0220 would be near the support level expected from hashrate supply restriction, comparing support levels at hashrates in July and in (almost) October.

Agreed - I'm quite shocked we fell below 0.027 FWIW

McAfee prolly has a new "anti-virus" software that mines XMR coins in the background? lmfao muuhahah

[CryptoPH]

https://www.coindesk.com/edward-snowden-zcash-is-most-interesting-bitcoin-alternative/

"Asked for his thoughts on monero, a competing private currency, Snowden said it was "amateur crypto" and pointed to traceability issues within the tech.

Snowden said that such design errors could put fellow whistleblowers at risk, stating: "Mistakes happen and have huge consequences for people like me.""

I'm not up-to-date recently about Monero dev, which mistake is he referring to?

[cAPSLOCK]

https://www.coindesk.com/edward-snowden-zcash-is-most-interesting-bitcoin-alternative/

"Asked for his thoughts on monero, a competing private currency, Snowden said it was "amateur crypto" and pointed to traceability issues within the tech.

Snowden said that such design errors could put fellow whistleblowers at risk, stating: "Mistakes happen and have huge consequences for people like me.""

I'm not up-to-date recently about Monero dev, which mistake is he referring to?

Unfortunately he's not up to date either. He is referring to traceability issues that were squashed over a year ago.  Its actually FUD started by the coin he supports.

[Compradora]

https://www.coindesk.com/edward-snowden-zcash-is-most-interesting-bitcoin-alternative/

"Asked for his thoughts on monero, a competing private currency, Snowden said it was "amateur crypto" and pointed to traceability issues within the tech.

Snowden said that such design errors could put fellow whistleblowers at risk, stating: "Mistakes happen and have huge consequences for people like me.""

I'm not up-to-date recently about Monero dev, which mistake is he referring to?

Unfortunately he's not up to date either. He is referring to traceability issues that were squashed over a year ago.  Its actually FUD started by the coin he supports.

I think you're saying right. There is no traceability issue on monero now and this guys is kinda spreading fud about monero. I don't know his purpose, but he might be working for another competitor project.