[∞ YH] solo.ckpool.org 2% fee solo mining USA/DE 255 blocks solved!

[jonnybravo0311]

Come off it! How does this solo pool get paid? If you find the block, then you get 99.95% of the 25 BTC it is worth, the rest to the pool.
In the same breath I'd add, the "normal" pool mining would say incur a flat rate for paying out to your address (not rocket science, but the pool gets paid then!)

But I digress, the question was is that kind of pool technically feasible to implement (or am I barking mad because that is what P2Pool is)?

You're asking if work can be submitted twice.  It can't.  Think about it.  If something like this could be implemented, then I could take my hashing power and multiply it by connecting to multiple pools.  So, in pool 1, I have 1TH/s, and pool 2 I have that same 1TH/s, and in pool N I have my 1TH/s, effectively giving me N TH/s mining, when I only have a single terra hash of hardware.  So, to answer your question, no, that kind of pool is not technically feasible to implement.  

P2Pool does nothing of the sort.  P2Pool has its own block chain called the share chain.  Each share that is added to the chain either solves the BTC block or it does not.  If it does, the generation transaction includes the payouts to all the miners who have shares on the chain.  If it does not solve the block, it is just added to the share chain.

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[Slesh]

Hi
 can someone help with this?
 I have pointed 4 of my Ants S3 to solo pool and get lot of discarted shares.
 For example:
GetWorks   15
Accepted   79
Rejected   1
Discarded    2342


and best share is also very low afer few minutes.

When I point this miners for example to Slush I get:

GetWorks   19922
Accepted   152451
Rejected   337
Discarded    1934111

And best share is > 1 000 0000 after few minutes.

In solo pool is ratio Accepted / Discarded much bigger.

Thanks

[cereal7802]

Hi
 can someone help with this?
 I have pointed 4 of my Ants S3 to solo pool and get lot of discarted shares.
 For example:
GetWorks   15
Accepted   79
Rejected   1
Discarded    2342


and best share is also very low afer few minutes.

When I point this miners for example to Slush I get:

GetWorks   19922
Accepted   152451
Rejected   337
Discarded    1934111

And best share is > 1 000 0000 after few minutes.

In solo pool is ratio Accepted / Discarded much bigger.

Thanks

Discards are a result of the S3 having a high queue setting. most people ignore it.

[Slesh]

Discards are a result of the S3 having a high queue setting. most people ignore it.

Thanks, so where is the place to set the queue size?

[pekatete]

Hi
 can someone help with this?
 I have pointed 4 of my Ants S3 to solo pool and get lot of discarted shares.
 For example:
GetWorks   15
Accepted   79
Rejected   1
Discarded    2342


and best share is also very low afer few minutes.

When I point this miners for example to Slush I get:

GetWorks   19922
Accepted   152451
Rejected   337
Discarded    1934111

And best share is > 1 000 0000 after few minutes.

In solo pool is ratio Accepted / Discarded much bigger.

Thanks

Like it has been mentioned, the discarded number is due to the S3's high queue (I think it is 1046), but I am meant to believe does NOT affect your mining. you can change this to a lower number to get less discards.
This particular solo pool, I have noticed, takes a while to "settle" down to your appropriate hashing speed to assign a relevant Diff, so a few minutes is not long enough to reach conclusions.

[Slesh]

Like it has been mentioned, the discarded number is due to the S3's high queue (I think it is 1046), but I am meant to believe does NOT affect your mining. you can change this to a lower number to get less discards.
This particular solo pool, I have noticed, takes a while to "settle" down to your appropriate hashing speed to assign a relevant Diff, so a few minutes is not long enough to reach conclusions.

OK, I will wait and check the stats after few hours ..

[Slesh]

BTW does anybody knows how maby block was found so far by solo.ckpool?

[pekatete]

You're asking if work can be submitted twice.  It can't.  Think about it.  If something like this could be implemented, then I could take my hashing power and multiply it by connecting to multiple pools.  So, in pool 1, I have 1TH/s, and pool 2 I have that same 1TH/s, and in pool N I have my 1TH/s, effectively giving me N TH/s mining, when I only have a single terra hash of hardware.  So, to answer your question, no, that kind of pool is not technically feasible to implement. 

P2Pool does nothing of the sort.  P2Pool has its own block chain called the share chain.  Each share that is added to the chain either solves the BTC block or it does not.  If it does, the generation transaction includes the payouts to all the miners who have shares on the chain.  If it does not solve the block, it is just added to the share chain.

I think you got closest to what I was asking, but not quite.
I did not mean to ask "if work can be submitted twice" as you say.
When mining directly / solo mining, I assume you still get rewarded for solving part of the chain, however, most solo mining nodes (including this one) do not relay those minute rewards (if any), only IF you solve the entire block. So that was the crust of my question, can a solo mining pool be set up whereby rather than (realistically) mining for nothing short of hitting the jackpot, the mining can be rewarded however lowly?

Thanks for explaining, and I am sure I am missing something that is obvious to yourself (but ofcourse very foreign to me!).

[xyzzy099]

I think you got closest to what I was asking, but not quite.
I did not mean to ask "if work can be submitted twice" as you say.
When mining directly / solo mining, I assume you still get rewarded for solving part of the chain, however, most solo mining nodes (including this one) do not relay those minute rewards (if any), only IF you solve the entire block. So that was the crust of my question, can a solo mining pool be set up whereby rather than (realistically) mining for nothing short of hitting the jackpot, the mining can be rewarded however lowly?

Thanks for explaining, and I am sure I am missing something that is obvious to yourself (but ofcourse very foreign to me!).

In a normal pool, when a block is found, the reward for that block is distributed to all the users who contributed work to the pool.

When solo mining, the solo miner takes the whole block reward for himself.

You cannot simultaneously give all 25 BTC to the miner that found it AND divide it up among everyone who is hashing on the pool.

[pekatete]

In a normal pool, when a block is found, the reward for that block is distributed to all the users who contributed work to the pool.

When solo mining, the solo miner takes the whole block reward for himself.

You cannot simultaneously give all 25 BTC to the miner that found it AND divide it up among everyone who is hashing on the pool.

I am sure the questionis being lost here, unless I am mistaken and your response is not intended for me.
My query was to the contrary, i.e a pool in which if a person found the block, then he'd get the reward (not share it), but for the blocks won by the pool shared throughout, aka a pool that offers solo mining in and pool mining.

[jonnybravo0311]

I think you got closest to what I was asking, but not quite.
I did not mean to ask "if work can be submitted twice" as you say.
When mining directly / solo mining, I assume you still get rewarded for solving part of the chain, however, most solo mining nodes (including this one) do not relay those minute rewards (if any), only IF you solve the entire block. So that was the crust of my question, can a solo mining pool be set up whereby rather than (realistically) mining for nothing short of hitting the jackpot, the mining can be rewarded however lowly?

Thanks for explaining, and I am sure I am missing something that is obvious to yourself (but ofcourse very foreign to me!).

Glad to help.  What you're now asking is exactly how your typical pools work.  Depending on the payout strategy (PPS, PPLNS, etc), the pool determines how much to reward each miner for their contributions.  In the case of this pool, the pool rewards the miner who solved the block with the entire 25BTC.  It cannot also reward all the other miners for their contributions (because there isn't any more leftover in the block reward).

P2Pool rewards miners who have shares on the share chain.  It also rewards the miner who found the block with a 0.5% reward (so, 99.5% of the block reward goes to everybody else who has a share on the chain, and 0.5% goes to the miner who found the block).

Strict pay-per-share pools pay miners for every share they submit.  In other words, if you look at the difficulty, right now you would expect 27428630902 difficulty 1 shares to find a block.  So, let's say the block takes half of that many shares to solve.  The pool pays out 12.5BTC to the miners and keeps 12.5BTC for itself.  Now, if the next block takes 1.5 times as long as expected to solve, then the pool must payout 37.5BTC to the miners.

I won't continue, since there are a number of threads dedicated to explaining payout schemes, but I will conclude with this: nobody is going to create a pool that rewards the full 25BTC to the miner who finds the block, and also rewards every other miner for the work they've done.

[pekatete]

I won't continue, since there are a number of threads dedicated to explaining payout schemes, but I will conclude with this: nobody is going to create a pool that rewards the full 25BTC to the miner who finds the block, and also rewards every other miner for the work they've done.

i appreciate your time in explaining and will do some digging to satisfy my ignorance, suffice to say, the crux of my ignorance seems to lie squarely in the manner in which a pool dishes out work. So I have a clean session of google to embark on my research. thanks again for the time.

[jonnybravo0311]

I won't continue, since there are a number of threads dedicated to explaining payout schemes, but I will conclude with this: nobody is going to create a pool that rewards the full 25BTC to the miner who finds the block, and also rewards every other miner for the work they've done.

i appreciate your time in explaining and will do some digging to satisfy my ignorance, suffice to say, the crux of my ignorance seems to lie squarely in the manner in which a pool dishes out work. So I have a clean session of google to embark on my research. thanks again for the time.

Let me give you a scenario.  I go and create this type of pool, and have 2 miners connected to it.  After a while the first block is found by miner 1.  Both miners have been submitting work equally.  I have 25BTC to give out.  Who gets it?  If I pay miner 1 the full 25BTC for finding the block, I don't have anything left to pay miner 2.  If I pay both miner 1 and miner 2 for the work they've done, I don't have the 25BTC to give to miner 1 for finding the block.  Make sense?

[pekatete]

Let me give you a scenario.  I go and create this type of pool, and have 2 miners connected to it.  After a while the first block is found by miner 1.  Both miners have been submitting work equally.  I have 25BTC to give out.  Who gets it?  If I pay miner 1 the full 25BTC for finding the block, I don't have anything left to pay miner 2.  If I pay both miner 1 and miner 2 for the work they've done, I don't have the 25BTC to give to miner 1 for finding the block.  Make sense?

Just to tweak your scenario to suit my utopia.
2 miners connected, hashing equally.
Scenario 1: Miner 1 finds the block - Miner 1 gets 25BTC less the mining fees attributed to Miner 2's work which Miner 2 gets
Scenario 2: the pool wins the block - Each miner gets 12.5BTC including (or in addition to) the mining fees attributed to their work submissions

[jonnybravo0311]

Let me give you a scenario.  I go and create this type of pool, and have 2 miners connected to it.  After a while the first block is found by miner 1.  Both miners have been submitting work equally.  I have 25BTC to give out.  Who gets it?  If I pay miner 1 the full 25BTC for finding the block, I don't have anything left to pay miner 2.  If I pay both miner 1 and miner 2 for the work they've done, I don't have the 25BTC to give to miner 1 for finding the block.  Make sense?

Just to tweak your scenario to suit my utopia.
2 miners connected, hashing equally.
Scenario 1: Miner 1 finds the block - Miner 1 gets 25BTC less the mining fees attributed to Miner 2's work which Miner 2 gets
Scenario 2: the pool wins the block - Each miner gets 12.5BTC including (or in addition to) the mining fees attributed to their work submissions

I think I found your confusion.  There is no such thing as "the pool wins the block".  Either miner 1 or miner 2 had to have solved the block.  Your scenario 1 is in reality your scenario 2, minus that "pool wins the block" stuff.  If both miner 1 and miner 2 are mining with equal hashing power and equally submitting shares, then they've each contributed exactly half the work necessary to solve the block.  Therefore, they're each going to get 12.5BTC.

[murraypaul]

But I digress, the question was is that kind of pool technically feasible to implement (or am I barking mad because that is what P2Pool is)?

This:

Just wondering, can we not have the best of both worlds by solo-mining AND submiting to a pool at the same time?

Is not possible to implement, as the puzzle you are solving includes the definition of who gets paid.
You can either solve a problem that involves paying yourself all of the block reward, or you can solve a problem that involves paying the pool the block reward.
It is impossible to solve both problems simultaneously.

[pekatete]

I think I found your confusion.  There is no such thing as "the pool wins the block".  Either miner 1 or miner 2 had to have solved the block.  Your scenario 1 is in reality your scenario 2, minus that "pool wins the block" stuff.  If both miner 1 and miner 2 are mining with equal hashing power and equally submitting shares, then they've each contributed exactly half the work necessary to solve the block.  Therefore, they're each going to get 12.5BTC.

So basically what you are saying is that it is only possible for a single hasher to solve a block if it is just their shares that solve the entire block.
That would imply that a solo mining pool is a fraud as this will NEVER realistically happen with the hashing power in the hands of home miners.

[pekatete]

Is not possible to implement, as the puzzle you are solving includes the definition of who gets paid.
You can either solve a problem that involves paying yourself all of the block reward, or you can solve a problem that involves paying the pool the block reward.
It is impossible to solve both problems simultaneously.

The question was clarified in my latter posts, and you have not caught up yet.

[jonnybravo0311]

So basically what you are saying is that it is only possible for a single hasher to solve a block if it is just their shares that solve the entire block.
That would imply that a solo mining pool is a fraud as this will NEVER realistically happen with the hashing power in the hands of home miners.

It would most certainly not imply that a solo mining pool is a fraud.  I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion from this discussion.  Is it likely that I will solo mine a block of BTC?  Nope.  Is it likely I will win the powerball on Wednesday?  Nope.  Doesn't mean I won't pick up a ticket for a couple bucks and try anyway.

EDIT: It is not a combined effort of shares that solve a block.  It is a SINGLE share that does it.  Each time you're attempting to find the solution, it either works or it doesn't.  Flip a coin.  Either it lands on heads or it lands on tails.  It can't land on both at the same time.  Each flip of that coin has absolutely no relation to the flips before it, or the flips that come after it.

[xyzzy099]

So basically what you are saying is that it is only possible for a single hasher to solve a block if it is just their shares that solve the entire block.
That would imply that a solo mining pool is a fraud as this will NEVER realistically happen with the hashing power in the hands of home miners.

EVERY block is solved with a SINGLE hash.  You should spend some time reading up on this stuff at https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining .