Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[coda]

As a BA batch1 customer,
we payed long time ago it's not fair than we get the same as a S3
if we go with the hex4 solution (which could be not easy to setup)
BA should give us more than 100 chips ! we should get 130 chips
if they want to respect a minimum what they said

[DebitMe]

Do the Marto boards run off of CGMiner or do they use that weird Hex miner stuff?

cgminer
the image for TP-link and patch are already available on our website

 Marto. Do you think these boards would be fine to be submerged in mineral oil? I just requested bob send my 200 chips to you and looking for an easy way to cool them. Also, I think if I am reading this right, you install a generic heatsink? If so, will that be enough if they are are submerged?

(Licking my chops for 25 th/s)

Scrap'

You don't need a heatsink if they are submerged, do you have a background in this?  I would advise you look into a different route as without the proper knowledge you could easily ruin your setup.

Good Luck though

[goozman96]

The "purchase" isn't completed until the units are received.

[breakingcode]

Do the Marto boards run off of CGMiner or do they use that weird Hex miner stuff?

cgminer
the image for TP-link and patch are already available on our website

 Marto. Do you think these boards would be fine to be submerged in mineral oil? I just requested bob send my 200 chips to you and looking for an easy way to cool them. Also, I think if I am reading this right, you install a generic heatsink? If so, will that be enough if they are are submerged?

(Licking my chops for 25 th/s)

Scrap'

I've built a few oil cooled PC's in my extreme overclocking days.

As long as your thermal load calcs are right you'll be fine. You'll want SOME kind of heatsink on it to allow the oil to cool it easier (more surface area n all that)

Do your themal load calc (should be online resources, that's where I found mine), then add oil, small pond pump (circulation), Isolator plate for the temp difference, peltier coolers, cold side in oil, hot side with box fan,.. done. Temp monitor with SMS alert, then Chill till the pump eventually dies/freezes then replace. Putting the pump RIGHT on the center of the hot zone should keep it alive longer and a pond pump may not die as easily (we used aquarium pumps)

[DebitMe]

Do the Marto boards run off of CGMiner or do they use that weird Hex miner stuff?

cgminer
the image for TP-link and patch are already available on our website

 Marto. Do you think these boards would be fine to be submerged in mineral oil? I just requested bob send my 200 chips to you and looking for an easy way to cool them. Also, I think if I am reading this right, you install a generic heatsink? If so, will that be enough if they are are submerged?

(Licking my chops for 25 th/s)

Scrap'

I've built a few oil cooled PC's in my extreme overclocking days.

As long as your thermal load calcs are right you'll be fine. You'll want SOME kind of heatsink on it to allow the oil to cool it easier (more surface area n all that)

Do your themal load calc (should be online resources, that's where I found mine), then add oil, small pond pump (circulation), Isolator plate for the temp difference, peltier coolers, cold side in oil, hot side with box fan,.. done. Temp monitor with SMS alert, then Chill till the pump eventually dies/freezes then replace. Putting the pump RIGHT on the center of the hot zone should keep it alive longer and a pond pump may not die as easily (we used aquarium pumps)

 Thank you for this post my friend, as the only other response tried to make me feel like a noob. I too know that a heatsink must be installed for the oil to work. A raw chip can work providing the fluid is ample.  But the fluid needed to cool a raw chip is insane. If you have a mere heatsink on it, it will disperse much better in air or oil. Oil has the benefit of saturation. 100x1 factor.

 Am I on the right page my friend?

I hope your not referring to my post as making you feel like a newb as that was not my intent.  You just came in asking a lot of questions and I was advising that you make sure you do ample research or your large investment could be ruined very quickly. Oh course a heatsink will disperse better, I just assumed you would be springing to buy good oil, as you are talking about dispersing quite s bit of heat.  I agree with the other poster that you need to do the math and find out how much room you have, and then work back from there.  Lower quality oil over a larger space is fine, but denser spaces would require you to open your wallet again, so figuring out your situation and what you have to work with is key.

Also think about your options.  The heat still has to be expunged at some point.  If you just have the oil pulling the heat away and dispersing it into the air, you may be better off air cooling anyway, but if you have a system with a big radiator off somewhere else, then that could be a viable solution, again, its about what you have available.

[Pentax]

WTF..

why did PENTAX and my post got delted ?

 
Likely because they'd rather not deal with consumer agencies.  I don't blame them after the way they have treated consumers.

I've started a new thread for links to consumer agencies etc. that are relevant to BA customers.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=681965

I've posted what they deleted and will post further information later as well.

This is likely because that Shenzhen agency is suitable to handle those complaints.

The former links for Hong Kong may or may not be, which explains why they did not delete the post linking to the Hong Kong office either here or on their forum, when it was posted by someone else there.  They are quite happy apparently to let people run in circles.  Unfortunately for them that only goes so far if people follow up instead of simply thinking it is impossible or that China does not have these sorts of agencies.  None of that is the case, I assure.  That Hong Kong office has been responsive, as have been other agencies and most of attorneys I and others have spoken to, to clarify this.

They wrote: "Under the "one country, two systems" arrangement, Hong Kong Special Administrative Region has a separate government and a different political system. Therefore, we are not in a position to handle complaints against a trader in Mainland China...if your complaint is against a Hong Kong registered company, please provide the payment record, bank confirmation and other supporting documents..."

We know from the annual report that they are indeed registered in Hong Kong, so I will be sending that report located here:

http://www.kiwi.nz/blackarrow/PS300015776549_01.pdf

along with the documents they have requested, back to the Hong Kong office

https://www.consumer.org.hk/cc-complaint/index.php?lang=en

, as well as filing a report in Shenzhen and with another agency I have been given the information for.

See the thread on complaints for information on where to file complaints in Shenzhen and further informaton. 

[Pentax]

It is interesting that they are still trying to control information by deleting posts.

this thread, after a good scrubbing of many posts that tell another story, is just one big happy family, and BA treats it's customers just like this quote from this article

http://bitcoinexaminer.org/alex-berk-black-arrow-as-soon-as-14nm-is-available-well-release-a-new-asic-that-will-outperform-any-other-14nm-designs/

"We understand that the relation between a vendor and customers has to be win-win. We are trying to address this by guaranteeing our customers that we’ll do everything we can to protect their investment. We will do this through offering the best technology available, aggressive pricing, limiting the number of ASICs that we put on the market in order to give everybody a fair chance of recovering their investment and earn money."

when you look at that ^^^ through the lens of the reality of the last few months I think it's nothing short of hysterical.


or this little tidbit:

"We don’t aim to make any profit from the first batch of ASICs and our sole target is to cover the manufacturing costs. We funded more than 70 percent of the project ourselves. We can obtain the remaining 30 percent from various investors, but their conditions increase the price of our products. We wish to give our customers the opportunity to benefit of low prices while helping us complete this project."




so if all of this is investment money, where is people's money Black Arrow and why are you not issuing refunds and why are you dumping a ton of ASICS into the market in direct contrast to these comments?  This will directly hurt your customers that take delivery of your now overpriced miners, which you obviously know, as you've already commented on not doing this in order to 'give everybody a fair chance'?

my, oh my, once you start peeling the onion......

[notbatman]

Now shipping X1s?

[notbatman]

I'd say the major lesson learned here is that's if you're going to do business in China make sure it's actually run by a chinaman and not some eastern europeans running a British front company out of the Virgin Islands.

[DebitMe]

Well it looks like David is back on the ecointalk forum, and he has banned my account. Only pissing me off more and continuing my pledge to make sure that these scamming lying pieces of shit do not get another single dollar.  Oh and another lie from BA, as they said they don't mind people expressing their anger or views, as long as threats against BA's staff are left out.  Apparently that is one more thing they lied about.

You guys are seriously the scum of the earth.  I hope everything you own goes up in flames, and David, your just as big a piece of shit as everyone else in BA is.  If anyone thinks for a second he is on their side, remember he works for them, and doesn't hurt him in the slightest to tell you to wait longer as he already has his order (paper weight).

[coda]

hi bobsag

can you confirm me i'm out of the GB order of Hex4 boards

thanks

[BitCoin Operated Boy]

Almost 2 months later and they still have not given any reply regarding my refund for X3 and have not given any updates regarding refunds...

[BitCoin Operated Boy]

Almost 2 months later and they still have not given any reply regarding my refund for X3 and have not given any updates regarding refunds...

They have now started shipping to the resellers, but those of us who ordered direct - before there were any resellers - are still waiting. Hence, still no refund processing and no ticket processing.

To be fair, they also said that the compensation decision would be delayed until shipping was completed, but they have now actually made a decision about the compensation: "There will be no more compensation. You lose. You get nothing. Good day, sir."

Do you remember in their Black Arrow Software's canned responses they said "Black Arrow is not an investment or insurance company and cannot accept to be taken advantage of".. that was the best part. I feel like I've got to remind them that neither am I, and I'm definitely feeling taken advantage of now which is something I, like them, cannot accept. Still waiting on my BTC refund. The funds have never moved from the order-specific wallet I sent them to last year.

They have not been just taking an advantage out of customers but simply deceitfully exploting customers.

I'd say the major lesson learned here is that's if you're going to do business in China make sure it's actually run by a chinaman and not some eastern european once arrested for credit card skimming running a British front company out of the Virgin Islands doing double duty as a reseller catering to americans having more money than brains and are too busy playing video games to take the time to learn how google works.

ftfy

Oh PG, stop spreading FUD...Oh wait, you were right!

Yup, he is right. Dude is Romanian, living in Reading in UK and invested in company in Virgin Islands.

[DebitMe]

Well it looks like David is back on the ecointalk forum, and he has banned my account. Only pissing me off more and continuing my pledge to make sure that these scamming lying pieces of shit do not get another single dollar.  Oh and another lie from BA, as they said they don't mind people expressing their anger or views, as long as threats against BA's staff are left out.  Apparently that is one more thing they lied about.

You guys are seriously the scum of the earth.  I hope everything you own goes up in flames, and David, your just as big a piece of shit as everyone else in BA is.  If anyone thinks for a second he is on their side, remember he works for them, and doesn't hurt him in the slightest to tell you to wait longer as he already has his order (paper weight).

Lol! Really, awesome My fave part lol I totally agree 

I mean, like blocking my account would get me to quit, how easy is it to create new accounts?  I mean seriously David, your company has pissed off too many people and blocking accounts cannot save you now.  Good luck selling any more of your overpriced equipment when S3's will start shipping quicker than your X-3.

[Pentax]

Well it looks like David is back on the ecointalk forum, and he has banned my account. Only pissing me off more and continuing my pledge to make sure that these scamming lying pieces of shit do not get another single dollar.  Oh and another lie from BA, as they said they don't mind people expressing their anger or views, as long as threats against BA's staff are left out.  Apparently that is one more thing they lied about.

You guys are seriously the scum of the earth.  I hope everything you own goes up in flames, and David, your just as big a piece of shit as everyone else in BA is.  If anyone thinks for a second he is on their side, remember he works for them, and doesn't hurt him in the slightest to tell you to wait longer as he already has his order (paper weight).

Lol! Really, awesome My fave part lol I totally agree  

I mean, like blocking my account would get me to quit, how easy is it to create new accounts?  I mean seriously David, your company has pissed off too many people and blocking accounts cannot save you now.  Good luck selling any more of your overpriced equipment when S3's will start shipping quicker than your X-3.

next thing you know they will ::gasp:: start deleting posts too!

here's an idea, instead of screwing the pooch to the point where you have to flail like lunatics to control the message stop stuffing it to your customers as if they signed up to get screwed like the only hooker left in Bangkok.

get your product out to the people that still want it, if there are any.  keep your promise on price matching.  you made it.  keep it.  

refund the money of the people that have asked for it.  stop jerking around and making excuses.

if the customers are happy, you'll prosper.  this is simple shit.  cliche as hell, but also straight up truth.  and you won't have to waste time playing wack-a-mole on here or on your forum trying to stifle people that are not going to shut up anyhow.  do your job, do right by your customers, and you won't have to waste all of this time chasing your ass.

[breakingcode]

Ok guys...
A. I'm an idiot (as is evidenced by my buying an x3)
B. I'm not comfortable swapping for chips as I wouldn't have a clue where to build/buy/etc.. to make working miners and I'm pretty sure I'd screw that up somehow too (get stuck with them or something)

So,.. because of that AND because I'm a total glutton for punishment, I'm going to wait for the x3.
Is anyone swapping for chips that has a power supply they want to get rid of?
I'd like to buy one and help someone out BEFORE buying one from BA if possible.

Preferably at a discount,.. if so let me know, If the price is right I'll just paypal you for the unit and shipping.

[DebitMe]

just read the post on their forum, i agree. finish the 28nm 
working on the 20nm in no rush while finishing the 28nm seems like the best idea.

I must have missed this?  I don't think anyone said they were working on any size smaller chip?  but I wouldn't expect any difference to this release. They have seriously messed up 2 releases out of 2, there is no reason to believe the third would be different. They just all around fail.

[DebitMe]

There is no way they will provide any more compensation.  They obviously have more time as they are deleting posts now and banning people from their website, yet they still can't ship squat.  So yet another fail by this company.  People are being too compliant with what they are getting, why would they give anything else?  They can continue to run it all in their datacenter and make tons of money off of everyone who paid for that equipment.

[notbatman]

...
Sorry to hear that. I have an order there too. So I guess the 15-31 July shipment date is another joke?

Not if you're a Batch 2, X1 customer with a lucky re-seller, you win a brick!

No brick for you unlucky direct Batch 1 X1 customer!

[Pentax]

4. To cover time used to refund this order, for each transfer needed to be made, we will charge 50 USD and all 3rd party fees. In some cases, we might also need to charge a further 30 USD handling fee for each incorrect or incomplete transfer information provided by the customer.

taking 80 bucks to cancel an order? they cant be serious lol

 Seriously, don't complain, I just lost 50% on an Alpha Technoligies request, (over $3k USD) ifffff I even ever see it.

What do you mean? What happened?

 Check my previous posts... Alpha is fucking people left and right.

 I hit my lick in DOGE in DEC. I hit 88 million in the first 16 hours of coin being up. I gave away over 3 million in irc channel to friends as I looked at it as a joke as many. I sold all at 238, and reinvested in companys like BA, LTCGear, and Alpha tech. LTCGear is the only one to not deliver but actually pay weekly of the 3 I invested in.

 I have numerous threads of Alpha Tech and the way they fuck customers, and their commitments. They claimed worlds first asic scrypt. Wow they lost that hard core. Gridseed fucked them up. And yet they aren't the ones that buried them. I have lodged complaints in the UK and they were on deaf ears... "Cross Border"

 I asked for a full refund, was banned from their forums for doing so, and now pray that after they changed the TOA I get half... My down payment or deposit was  $6500.00 USD. They say I could issue a refund now at 50% of initial deposit, (which was initially 100%) yet I sent an email over 65 days ago requesting a refund. Guess what... no response...

Sorry to hear that. I have an order there too. So I guess the 15-31 July shipment date is another joke?

Same here, but I haven't sent them the rest of the $ since they cant get their CC system up. Worst case my CC will give me back what I paid them a 100%.
Quit making me worried any more then I have already over my X3s. lol

Guys they are EU based.. their ToS aint vallid if they broken their promisses!
They also stated that would only give 1 year warrenty, also this is not valid. EU regulations obligates companys to provide at least 2 years of warrenty !

He's right.

Although there are some differences in UK law they cannot do that.  And as we've said a zillion times here anything that conflicts with existing law in anyone's contract is void.

anyhow:  http://sogahub.tradingstandards.gov.uk/Explained


I also see a lot of people saying pre-orders must die, pre-orders must die!

and they should.  for that to happen the simplest methodology is to make these people adhere to the law.  File compaints.  File lawsuits singly or as groups.  These companies are breaking the law left and right and people let them get away with it.  As long as that continues, pre-orders will continue as they are, these companies will continue to fail to meet their promises and people will continue getting screwed by these people that are by all evidence operating outside the law.

Know your rights and make them uphold them.   It's a 30 second google search for shit's sake.