Bitcoin Forum
December 05, 2016, 12:43:51 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: FPGA development board "Lancelot" - accept bitsteam developer's orders.  (Read 95963 times)
Raize
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1374


View Profile
June 25, 2012, 05:34:52 PM
 #181

BFL is supposed to be taking preorders today. ASICs are bringing huge changes to Bitcoin, ones that could even effect non-miners. I believe all of these changes will be for the best in the long run though. Now we can just hope that the openasic project turns something out in the next few months!

Yes, and they took preorders in Bitcoin primarily, and some estimates now put the amount of Bitcoin trying to be cashed out by their processor at $300,000 worth, which may be difficult for them to process in the near future. Since these preorders cannot be reversed and the estimated cost for an ASIC run is $3-5 million for all three devices and the time for development could be as long as 6 months or more, there is a very high likelihood we may see BFL not have enough money to do ASIC development for several months and the ASIC itself for several more months. In all, it could easily be a year or more before ASIC drops.

I think FPGA devices still have some play, but obviously these are all things to consider when ordering or implementing new designs. I know I would still buy Lancelots if they were developed, though I'd probably still prefer a quad-miner of some sort.

OrganofCorti's Neighbourhood Pool Watch - The most informative website on blockchain health
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
disclaimer201
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1316


View Profile
June 25, 2012, 05:44:10 PM
 #182

What does the developer say? Do you have a solution for the bitstream yet? I'd love to buy one or two Lancelots rather sooner than later. Do you think it's risky to invest in FPGAs now? I'm not so worried about the energy efficiency but to achieve a high hash rate in order to still be able to compete at all with ASICs next year. I'm assuming the time for ROI is more than one year, or isn't it?

ngzhang
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 592


We will stand and fight.


View Profile
June 26, 2012, 01:17:40 AM
 #183

BFL is supposed to be taking preorders today. ASICs are bringing huge changes to Bitcoin, ones that could even effect non-miners. I believe all of these changes will be for the best in the long run though. Now we can just hope that the openasic project turns something out in the next few months!

Yes, and they took preorders in Bitcoin primarily, and some estimates now put the amount of Bitcoin trying to be cashed out by their processor at $300,000 worth, which may be difficult for them to process in the near future. Since these preorders cannot be reversed and the estimated cost for an ASIC run is $3-5 million for all three devices and the time for development could be as long as 6 months or more, there is a very high likelihood we may see BFL not have enough money to do ASIC development for several months and the ASIC itself for several more months. In all, it could easily be a year or more before ASIC drops.

I think FPGA devices still have some play, but obviously these are all things to consider when ordering or implementing new designs. I know I would still buy Lancelots if they were developed, though I'd probably still prefer a quad-miner of some sort.

we (my team and some other core people) consider BFL have not spend any money on ASIC development yet. BFL's business flow is: announce dreamlike specs -> taking pre-orders -> find people to development -> if succeed, release and shipment. if fail, run. BFL sell products at super low price because their customer take all risks.
so now BFL is just collecting money for their ASIC project and avoid current delivery pressure (means they are running out cheap FPGAs).
if this business model succeeded, i will classified this as a shame of human intelligence.

and let me explain what is the "now in final stage development" mean. in ASIC design flow, this means RTL design is nearly finish. as a SOC or some other complex ASIC, RTL design and testing will take most of the development time. but mining ASIC is not a RTL complex design, it is a high computing density chip. most of the work is physical design, packaging and thermal design. RTL is less than 10% of the entire work.

What does the developer say? Do you have a solution for the bitstream yet? I'd love to buy one or two Lancelots rather sooner than later. Do you think it's risky to invest in FPGAs now? I'm not so worried about the energy efficiency but to achieve a high hash rate in order to still be able to compete at all with ASICs next year. I'm assuming the time for ROI is more than one year, or isn't it?

nearly finish.
the price will let the ROI in ~6 months.

CEO of Canaan-creative, Founder of Avalon project.
https://canaan.io/
Business contact: love@canaan.io
All PMs will be unread.
seriouscoin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658


View Profile
June 26, 2012, 01:49:53 AM
 #184

BFL is supposed to be taking preorders today. ASICs are bringing huge changes to Bitcoin, ones that could even effect non-miners. I believe all of these changes will be for the best in the long run though. Now we can just hope that the openasic project turns something out in the next few months!

Yes, and they took preorders in Bitcoin primarily, and some estimates now put the amount of Bitcoin trying to be cashed out by their processor at $300,000 worth, which may be difficult for them to process in the near future. Since these preorders cannot be reversed and the estimated cost for an ASIC run is $3-5 million for all three devices and the time for development could be as long as 6 months or more, there is a very high likelihood we may see BFL not have enough money to do ASIC development for several months and the ASIC itself for several more months. In all, it could easily be a year or more before ASIC drops.

I think FPGA devices still have some play, but obviously these are all things to consider when ordering or implementing new designs. I know I would still buy Lancelots if they were developed, though I'd probably still prefer a quad-miner of some sort.

we (my team and some other core people) consider BFL have not spend any money on ASIC development yet. BFL's business flow is: announce dreamlike specs -> taking pre-orders -> find people to development -> if succeed, release and shipment. if fail, run. BFL sell products at super low price because their customer take all risks.
so now BFL is just collecting money for their ASIC project and avoid current delivery pressure (means they are running out cheap FPGAs).
if this business model succeeded, i will classified this as a shame of human intelligence.

and let me explain what is the "now in final stage development" mean. in ASIC design flow, this means RTL design is nearly finish. as a SOC or some other complex ASIC, RTL design and testing will take most of the development time. but mining ASIC is not a RTL complex design, it is a high computing density chip. most of the work is physical design, packaging and thermal design. RTL is less than 10% of the entire work.

What does the developer say? Do you have a solution for the bitstream yet? I'd love to buy one or two Lancelots rather sooner than later. Do you think it's risky to invest in FPGAs now? I'm not so worried about the energy efficiency but to achieve a high hash rate in order to still be able to compete at all with ASICs next year. I'm assuming the time for ROI is more than one year, or isn't it?

nearly finish.
the price will let the ROI in ~6 months.

Are you saying the ASIC specs from BFL is very optimistic?
ngzhang
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 592


We will stand and fight.


View Profile
June 26, 2012, 02:20:02 AM
 #185



Are you saying the ASIC specs from BFL is very optimistic?


maybe, but not optimism as their delivery date.

CEO of Canaan-creative, Founder of Avalon project.
https://canaan.io/
Business contact: love@canaan.io
All PMs will be unread.
luffy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 606



View Profile
June 26, 2012, 08:07:05 AM
 #186

6 months ROI seems very optimistic indeed!
lets do the maths:
500MH/s (currect difficulty) = 0.26BTC/day * 30 =  7.8BTC/month * 6 = 46.8BTC/6 months
with 1BTC=6 dollars we get 280 dollars
i din't calculate electric power. (it could be 50-60 more dollars!)
are you going to sell Lancelot below 300$ !?
Smiley
fuxianhui888
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 205



View Profile
June 26, 2012, 08:56:25 AM
 #187

6 months ROI seems very optimistic indeed!
lets do the maths:
500MH/s (currect difficulty) = 0.26BTC/day * 30 =  7.8BTC/month * 6 = 46.8BTC/6 months
with 1BTC=6 dollars we get 280 dollars
i din't calculate electric power. (it could be 50-60 more dollars!)
are you going to sell Lancelot below 300$ !?
Smiley

their new goal is get 700 mhash
arklan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1204


Just along for the ride...


View Profile
June 26, 2012, 09:33:12 AM
 #188

fux, where'd you see that said? that's news to me.
DiabloD3
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1162


DiabloMiner author


View Profile WWW
June 26, 2012, 09:35:43 AM
 #189

BFL is supposed to be taking preorders today. ASICs are bringing huge changes to Bitcoin, ones that could even effect non-miners. I believe all of these changes will be for the best in the long run though. Now we can just hope that the openasic project turns something out in the next few months!

Yes, and they took preorders in Bitcoin primarily, and some estimates now put the amount of Bitcoin trying to be cashed out by their processor at $300,000 worth, which may be difficult for them to process in the near future. Since these preorders cannot be reversed and the estimated cost for an ASIC run is $3-5 million for all three devices and the time for development could be as long as 6 months or more, there is a very high likelihood we may see BFL not have enough money to do ASIC development for several months and the ASIC itself for several more months. In all, it could easily be a year or more before ASIC drops.

I think FPGA devices still have some play, but obviously these are all things to consider when ordering or implementing new designs. I know I would still buy Lancelots if they were developed, though I'd probably still prefer a quad-miner of some sort.

we (my team and some other core people) consider BFL have not spend any money on ASIC development yet. BFL's business flow is: announce dreamlike specs -> taking pre-orders -> find people to development -> if succeed, release and shipment. if fail, run. BFL sell products at super low price because their customer take all risks.
so now BFL is just collecting money for their ASIC project and avoid current delivery pressure (means they are running out cheap FPGAs).
if this business model succeeded, i will classified this as a shame of human intelligence.

and let me explain what is the "now in final stage development" mean. in ASIC design flow, this means RTL design is nearly finish. as a SOC or some other complex ASIC, RTL design and testing will take most of the development time. but mining ASIC is not a RTL complex design, it is a high computing density chip. most of the work is physical design, packaging and thermal design. RTL is less than 10% of the entire work.

What does the developer say? Do you have a solution for the bitstream yet? I'd love to buy one or two Lancelots rather sooner than later. Do you think it's risky to invest in FPGAs now? I'm not so worried about the energy efficiency but to achieve a high hash rate in order to still be able to compete at all with ASICs next year. I'm assuming the time for ROI is more than one year, or isn't it?

nearly finish.
the price will let the ROI in ~6 months.

I agree with this assessment.

jl2012
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484


View Profile
June 26, 2012, 10:34:16 AM
 #190

Is it possible to use Lancelot for something else, such as Litecoin mining, protein folding, or looking for large prime numbers?

Donation address: 1CiZPrEJdN4FJcqdLdgVLzT8tgCXxT5ion
PGP: D3CC 1772 8600 5BB8 FF67 3294 C524 2A1A B393 6517
Bitcoin Wizards Wiki: https://8333.info/
Energizer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 274



View Profile
June 29, 2012, 11:52:55 PM
 #191

BFL is supposed to be taking preorders today. ASICs are bringing huge changes to Bitcoin, ones that could even effect non-miners. I believe all of these changes will be for the best in the long run though. Now we can just hope that the openasic project turns something out in the next few months!

Yes, and they took preorders in Bitcoin primarily, and some estimates now put the amount of Bitcoin trying to be cashed out by their processor at $300,000 worth, which may be difficult for them to process in the near future. Since these preorders cannot be reversed and the estimated cost for an ASIC run is $3-5 million for all three devices and the time for development could be as long as 6 months or more, there is a very high likelihood we may see BFL not have enough money to do ASIC development for several months and the ASIC itself for several more months. In all, it could easily be a year or more before ASIC drops.

I think FPGA devices still have some play, but obviously these are all things to consider when ordering or implementing new designs. I know I would still buy Lancelots if they were developed, though I'd probably still prefer a quad-miner of some sort.

we (my team and some other core people) consider BFL have not spend any money on ASIC development yet. BFL's business flow is: announce dreamlike specs -> taking pre-orders -> find people to development -> if succeed, release and shipment. if fail, run. BFL sell products at super low price because their customer take all risks.
so now BFL is just collecting money for their ASIC project and avoid current delivery pressure (means they are running out cheap FPGAs).
if this business model succeeded, i will classified this as a shame of human intelligence.

and let me explain what is the "now in final stage development" mean. in ASIC design flow, this means RTL design is nearly finish. as a SOC or some other complex ASIC, RTL design and testing will take most of the development time. but mining ASIC is not a RTL complex design, it is a high computing density chip. most of the work is physical design, packaging and thermal design. RTL is less than 10% of the entire work.

What does the developer say? Do you have a solution for the bitstream yet? I'd love to buy one or two Lancelots rather sooner than later. Do you think it's risky to invest in FPGAs now? I'm not so worried about the energy efficiency but to achieve a high hash rate in order to still be able to compete at all with ASICs next year. I'm assuming the time for ROI is more than one year, or isn't it?

nearly finish.
the price will let the ROI in ~6 months.

Sorry ngzang! I totaly disagree with you! once again you are attacking BFL! you've done the same 6 months ago before they start shipping BFL singles! I've followed your direction at that time and invested in Icarus more than BFL singles! Now please take a close look at my position wich is similar to any of your clients/fans: 12 Icarus boards that will be worthless in couple of months and 2 BFL Singles that been paid to be upgraded to ASIC in 3 months. I know that by now you probably have invested a lot of time and effort in Lancelot and am sure its gonna be a piece of art as Icarus is! But that doesn't give you the right to turn your clients/fans into the wrong direction! BFL ASIC is real and it will hit the network soon! it may be delayed a couple of months but be sure it will be eating the network in the first month of 2013 if not earlier!

Now the question is, instead of attacking BFL. what can you do for your clients/fans? Have you ever thought of offering your clients a trade in program for Icarus to Lancelot like BFL did?
hashking
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 308


View Profile
June 30, 2012, 12:11:53 AM
 #192

BFL is supposed to be taking preorders today. ASICs are bringing huge changes to Bitcoin, ones that could even effect non-miners. I believe all of these changes will be for the best in the long run though. Now we can just hope that the openasic project turns something out in the next few months!

Yes, and they took preorders in Bitcoin primarily, and some estimates now put the amount of Bitcoin trying to be cashed out by their processor at $300,000 worth, which may be difficult for them to process in the near future. Since these preorders cannot be reversed and the estimated cost for an ASIC run is $3-5 million for all three devices and the time for development could be as long as 6 months or more, there is a very high likelihood we may see BFL not have enough money to do ASIC development for several months and the ASIC itself for several more months. In all, it could easily be a year or more before ASIC drops.

I think FPGA devices still have some play, but obviously these are all things to consider when ordering or implementing new designs. I know I would still buy Lancelots if they were developed, though I'd probably still prefer a quad-miner of some sort.

we (my team and some other core people) consider BFL have not spend any money on ASIC development yet. BFL's business flow is: announce dreamlike specs -> taking pre-orders -> find people to development -> if succeed, release and shipment. if fail, run. BFL sell products at super low price because their customer take all risks.
so now BFL is just collecting money for their ASIC project and avoid current delivery pressure (means they are running out cheap FPGAs).
if this business model succeeded, i will classified this as a shame of human intelligence.

and let me explain what is the "now in final stage development" mean. in ASIC design flow, this means RTL design is nearly finish. as a SOC or some other complex ASIC, RTL design and testing will take most of the development time. but mining ASIC is not a RTL complex design, it is a high computing density chip. most of the work is physical design, packaging and thermal design. RTL is less than 10% of the entire work.

What does the developer say? Do you have a solution for the bitstream yet? I'd love to buy one or two Lancelots rather sooner than later. Do you think it's risky to invest in FPGAs now? I'm not so worried about the energy efficiency but to achieve a high hash rate in order to still be able to compete at all with ASICs next year. I'm assuming the time for ROI is more than one year, or isn't it?

nearly finish.
the price will let the ROI in ~6 months.

Sorry ngzang! I totaly disagree with you! once again you are attacking BFL! you've done the same 6 months ago before they start shipping BFL singles! I've followed your direction at that time and invested in Icarus more than BFL singles! Now please take a close look at my position wich is similar to any of your clients/fans: 12 Icarus boards that will be worthless in couple of months and 2 BFL Singles that been paid to be upgraded to ASIC in 3 months. I know that by now you probably have invested a lot of time and effort in Lancelot and am sure its gonna be a piece of art as Icarus is! But that doesn't give you the right to turn your clients/fans into the wrong direction! BFL ASIC is real and it will hit the network soon! it may be delayed a couple of months but be sure it will be eating the network in the first month of 2013 if not earlier!

Now the question is, instead of attacking BFL! what can you do for your clients/fans? Did you even think about offering your clients a trade in program for Icarus to Lancelot? you didn't! but BFL did!

Do you really think BFL is giving you a deal with the trade in.  First off, they kept everyone's funds for months without shipping anything.  Then when they start shipping a small amount of the equipment, they tell everyone they are going to sell ASICS.  It doesn't take a smart person to figure it out but they just made you lock up more money for who knows how long this time.  I'm sure BFL could have sold their ASICS products for less money but then they wouldn't make you feel like you are getting a deal.  BFL is full of S***.  
Energizer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 274



View Profile
June 30, 2012, 12:31:51 AM
 #193

BFL is supposed to be taking preorders today. ASICs are bringing huge changes to Bitcoin, ones that could even effect non-miners. I believe all of these changes will be for the best in the long run though. Now we can just hope that the openasic project turns something out in the next few months!

Yes, and they took preorders in Bitcoin primarily, and some estimates now put the amount of Bitcoin trying to be cashed out by their processor at $300,000 worth, which may be difficult for them to process in the near future. Since these preorders cannot be reversed and the estimated cost for an ASIC run is $3-5 million for all three devices and the time for development could be as long as 6 months or more, there is a very high likelihood we may see BFL not have enough money to do ASIC development for several months and the ASIC itself for several more months. In all, it could easily be a year or more before ASIC drops.

I think FPGA devices still have some play, but obviously these are all things to consider when ordering or implementing new designs. I know I would still buy Lancelots if they were developed, though I'd probably still prefer a quad-miner of some sort.

we (my team and some other core people) consider BFL have not spend any money on ASIC development yet. BFL's business flow is: announce dreamlike specs -> taking pre-orders -> find people to development -> if succeed, release and shipment. if fail, run. BFL sell products at super low price because their customer take all risks.
so now BFL is just collecting money for their ASIC project and avoid current delivery pressure (means they are running out cheap FPGAs).
if this business model succeeded, i will classified this as a shame of human intelligence.

and let me explain what is the "now in final stage development" mean. in ASIC design flow, this means RTL design is nearly finish. as a SOC or some other complex ASIC, RTL design and testing will take most of the development time. but mining ASIC is not a RTL complex design, it is a high computing density chip. most of the work is physical design, packaging and thermal design. RTL is less than 10% of the entire work.

What does the developer say? Do you have a solution for the bitstream yet? I'd love to buy one or two Lancelots rather sooner than later. Do you think it's risky to invest in FPGAs now? I'm not so worried about the energy efficiency but to achieve a high hash rate in order to still be able to compete at all with ASICs next year. I'm assuming the time for ROI is more than one year, or isn't it?

nearly finish.
the price will let the ROI in ~6 months.

Sorry ngzang! I totaly disagree with you! once again you are attacking BFL! you've done the same 6 months ago before they start shipping BFL singles! I've followed your direction at that time and invested in Icarus more than BFL singles! Now please take a close look at my position wich is similar to any of your clients/fans: 12 Icarus boards that will be worthless in couple of months and 2 BFL Singles that been paid to be upgraded to ASIC in 3 months. I know that by now you probably have invested a lot of time and effort in Lancelot and am sure its gonna be a piece of art as Icarus is! But that doesn't give you the right to turn your clients/fans into the wrong direction! BFL ASIC is real and it will hit the network soon! it may be delayed a couple of months but be sure it will be eating the network in the first month of 2013 if not earlier!

Now the question is, instead of attacking BFL! what can you do for your clients/fans? Did you even think about offering your clients a trade in program for Icarus to Lancelot? you didn't! but BFL did!

Do you really think BFL is giving you a deal with the trade in.  First off, they kept everyone's funds for months without shipping anything.  Then when they start shipping a small amount of the equipment, they tell everyone they are going to sell ASICS.  It doesn't take a smart person to figure it out but they just made you lock up more money for who knows how long this time.  I'm sure BFL could have sold their ASICS products for less money but then they wouldn't make you feel like you are getting a deal.  BFL is full of S***.  

Yes I do! and am not the only one!
disclaimer201
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1316


View Profile
June 30, 2012, 12:40:42 AM
 #194

BFL is supposed to be taking preorders today. ASICs are bringing huge changes to Bitcoin, ones that could even effect non-miners. I believe all of these changes will be for the best in the long run though. Now we can just hope that the openasic project turns something out in the next few months!

Yes, and they took preorders in Bitcoin primarily, and some estimates now put the amount of Bitcoin trying to be cashed out by their processor at $300,000 worth, which may be difficult for them to process in the near future. Since these preorders cannot be reversed and the estimated cost for an ASIC run is $3-5 million for all three devices and the time for development could be as long as 6 months or more, there is a very high likelihood we may see BFL not have enough money to do ASIC development for several months and the ASIC itself for several more months. In all, it could easily be a year or more before ASIC drops.

I think FPGA devices still have some play, but obviously these are all things to consider when ordering or implementing new designs. I know I would still buy Lancelots if they were developed, though I'd probably still prefer a quad-miner of some sort.

we (my team and some other core people) consider BFL have not spend any money on ASIC development yet. BFL's business flow is: announce dreamlike specs -> taking pre-orders -> find people to development -> if succeed, release and shipment. if fail, run. BFL sell products at super low price because their customer take all risks.
so now BFL is just collecting money for their ASIC project and avoid current delivery pressure (means they are running out cheap FPGAs).
if this business model succeeded, i will classified this as a shame of human intelligence.

and let me explain what is the "now in final stage development" mean. in ASIC design flow, this means RTL design is nearly finish. as a SOC or some other complex ASIC, RTL design and testing will take most of the development time. but mining ASIC is not a RTL complex design, it is a high computing density chip. most of the work is physical design, packaging and thermal design. RTL is less than 10% of the entire work.

What does the developer say? Do you have a solution for the bitstream yet? I'd love to buy one or two Lancelots rather sooner than later. Do you think it's risky to invest in FPGAs now? I'm not so worried about the energy efficiency but to achieve a high hash rate in order to still be able to compete at all with ASICs next year. I'm assuming the time for ROI is more than one year, or isn't it?

nearly finish.
the price will let the ROI in ~6 months.

Sorry ngzang! I totaly disagree with you! once again you are attacking BFL! you've done the same 6 months ago before they start shipping BFL singles! I've followed your direction at that time and invested in Icarus more than BFL singles! Now please take a close look at my position wich is similar to any of your clients/fans: 12 Icarus boards that will be worthless in couple of months and 2 BFL Singles that been paid to be upgraded to ASIC in 3 months. I know that by now you probably have invested a lot of time and effort in Lancelot and am sure its gonna be a piece of art as Icarus is! But that doesn't give you the right to turn your clients/fans into the wrong direction! BFL ASIC is real and it will hit the network soon! it may be delayed a couple of months but be sure it will be eating the network in the first month of 2013 if not earlier!

Now the question is, instead of attacking BFL! what can you do for your clients/fans? Did you even think about offering your clients a trade in program for Icarus to Lancelot? you didn't! but BFL did!

Do you really think BFL is giving you a deal with the trade in.  First off, they kept everyone's funds for months without shipping anything.  Then when they start shipping a small amount of the equipment, they tell everyone they are going to sell ASICS.  It doesn't take a smart person to figure it out but they just made you lock up more money for who knows how long this time.  I'm sure BFL could have sold their ASICS products for less money but then they wouldn't make you feel like you are getting a deal.  BFL is full of S***.  

Yes I do! and am not the only one!

Funny how one can see the factual as hypothetical (your FPGA units making you money for some time now) and the hypothetical as factual (past BFL promises replaced with future BFL promises while already being out of real money with nothing to show for it). You should be thankful for the Icarus boards for they are the only that make you money at the moment and probably will be for a long time even if BFL does ship Asics sometime next spring.

hashking
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 308


View Profile
June 30, 2012, 12:45:09 AM
 #195

BFL is supposed to be taking preorders today. ASICs are bringing huge changes to Bitcoin, ones that could even effect non-miners. I believe all of these changes will be for the best in the long run though. Now we can just hope that the openasic project turns something out in the next few months!

Yes, and they took preorders in Bitcoin primarily, and some estimates now put the amount of Bitcoin trying to be cashed out by their processor at $300,000 worth, which may be difficult for them to process in the near future. Since these preorders cannot be reversed and the estimated cost for an ASIC run is $3-5 million for all three devices and the time for development could be as long as 6 months or more, there is a very high likelihood we may see BFL not have enough money to do ASIC development for several months and the ASIC itself for several more months. In all, it could easily be a year or more before ASIC drops.

I think FPGA devices still have some play, but obviously these are all things to consider when ordering or implementing new designs. I know I would still buy Lancelots if they were developed, though I'd probably still prefer a quad-miner of some sort.

we (my team and some other core people) consider BFL have not spend any money on ASIC development yet. BFL's business flow is: announce dreamlike specs -> taking pre-orders -> find people to development -> if succeed, release and shipment. if fail, run. BFL sell products at super low price because their customer take all risks.
so now BFL is just collecting money for their ASIC project and avoid current delivery pressure (means they are running out cheap FPGAs).
if this business model succeeded, i will classified this as a shame of human intelligence.

and let me explain what is the "now in final stage development" mean. in ASIC design flow, this means RTL design is nearly finish. as a SOC or some other complex ASIC, RTL design and testing will take most of the development time. but mining ASIC is not a RTL complex design, it is a high computing density chip. most of the work is physical design, packaging and thermal design. RTL is less than 10% of the entire work.

What does the developer say? Do you have a solution for the bitstream yet? I'd love to buy one or two Lancelots rather sooner than later. Do you think it's risky to invest in FPGAs now? I'm not so worried about the energy efficiency but to achieve a high hash rate in order to still be able to compete at all with ASICs next year. I'm assuming the time for ROI is more than one year, or isn't it?

nearly finish.
the price will let the ROI in ~6 months.

Sorry ngzang! I totaly disagree with you! once again you are attacking BFL! you've done the same 6 months ago before they start shipping BFL singles! I've followed your direction at that time and invested in Icarus more than BFL singles! Now please take a close look at my position wich is similar to any of your clients/fans: 12 Icarus boards that will be worthless in couple of months and 2 BFL Singles that been paid to be upgraded to ASIC in 3 months. I know that by now you probably have invested a lot of time and effort in Lancelot and am sure its gonna be a piece of art as Icarus is! But that doesn't give you the right to turn your clients/fans into the wrong direction! BFL ASIC is real and it will hit the network soon! it may be delayed a couple of months but be sure it will be eating the network in the first month of 2013 if not earlier!

Now the question is, instead of attacking BFL! what can you do for your clients/fans? Did you even think about offering your clients a trade in program for Icarus to Lancelot? you didn't! but BFL did!

Do you really think BFL is giving you a deal with the trade in.  First off, they kept everyone's funds for months without shipping anything.  Then when they start shipping a small amount of the equipment, they tell everyone they are going to sell ASICS.  It doesn't take a smart person to figure it out but they just made you lock up more money for who knows how long this time.  I'm sure BFL could have sold their ASICS products for less money but then they wouldn't make you feel like you are getting a deal.  BFL is full of S***.  

Yes I do! and am not the only one!

Lol, and that is why the suckers keep lining up at the door. 
Energizer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 274



View Profile
June 30, 2012, 01:09:45 AM
 #196

BFL is supposed to be taking preorders today. ASICs are bringing huge changes to Bitcoin, ones that could even effect non-miners. I believe all of these changes will be for the best in the long run though. Now we can just hope that the openasic project turns something out in the next few months!

Yes, and they took preorders in Bitcoin primarily, and some estimates now put the amount of Bitcoin trying to be cashed out by their processor at $300,000 worth, which may be difficult for them to process in the near future. Since these preorders cannot be reversed and the estimated cost for an ASIC run is $3-5 million for all three devices and the time for development could be as long as 6 months or more, there is a very high likelihood we may see BFL not have enough money to do ASIC development for several months and the ASIC itself for several more months. In all, it could easily be a year or more before ASIC drops.

I think FPGA devices still have some play, but obviously these are all things to consider when ordering or implementing new designs. I know I would still buy Lancelots if they were developed, though I'd probably still prefer a quad-miner of some sort.

we (my team and some other core people) consider BFL have not spend any money on ASIC development yet. BFL's business flow is: announce dreamlike specs -> taking pre-orders -> find people to development -> if succeed, release and shipment. if fail, run. BFL sell products at super low price because their customer take all risks.
so now BFL is just collecting money for their ASIC project and avoid current delivery pressure (means they are running out cheap FPGAs).
if this business model succeeded, i will classified this as a shame of human intelligence.

and let me explain what is the "now in final stage development" mean. in ASIC design flow, this means RTL design is nearly finish. as a SOC or some other complex ASIC, RTL design and testing will take most of the development time. but mining ASIC is not a RTL complex design, it is a high computing density chip. most of the work is physical design, packaging and thermal design. RTL is less than 10% of the entire work.

What does the developer say? Do you have a solution for the bitstream yet? I'd love to buy one or two Lancelots rather sooner than later. Do you think it's risky to invest in FPGAs now? I'm not so worried about the energy efficiency but to achieve a high hash rate in order to still be able to compete at all with ASICs next year. I'm assuming the time for ROI is more than one year, or isn't it?

nearly finish.
the price will let the ROI in ~6 months.

Sorry ngzang! I totaly disagree with you! once again you are attacking BFL! you've done the same 6 months ago before they start shipping BFL singles! I've followed your direction at that time and invested in Icarus more than BFL singles! Now please take a close look at my position wich is similar to any of your clients/fans: 12 Icarus boards that will be worthless in couple of months and 2 BFL Singles that been paid to be upgraded to ASIC in 3 months. I know that by now you probably have invested a lot of time and effort in Lancelot and am sure its gonna be a piece of art as Icarus is! But that doesn't give you the right to turn your clients/fans into the wrong direction! BFL ASIC is real and it will hit the network soon! it may be delayed a couple of months but be sure it will be eating the network in the first month of 2013 if not earlier!

Now the question is, instead of attacking BFL! what can you do for your clients/fans? Did you even think about offering your clients a trade in program for Icarus to Lancelot? you didn't! but BFL did!

Do you really think BFL is giving you a deal with the trade in.  First off, they kept everyone's funds for months without shipping anything.  Then when they start shipping a small amount of the equipment, they tell everyone they are going to sell ASICS.  It doesn't take a smart person to figure it out but they just made you lock up more money for who knows how long this time.  I'm sure BFL could have sold their ASICS products for less money but then they wouldn't make you feel like you are getting a deal.  BFL is full of S***.  

Yes I do! and am not the only one!

Funny how one can see the factual as hypothetical (your FPGA units making you money for some time now) and the hypothetical as factual (past BFL promises replaced with future BFL promises while already being out of real money with nothing to show for it). You should be thankful for the Icarus boards for they are the only that make you money at the moment and probably will be for a long time even if BFL does ship Asics sometime next spring.

I totally agree with you! Today Icarus is extremely profitable and will continue to be up until the block reward switches to 25 BTC or ASIC hits the network! But there is a missing part in your equation! what if BFL really delivers ASIC in October? or even January? By then Icarus will produce between minimum 1 maximum 5% BTC of what its currently producing! and if am lucky enough I would be able to sell it out for 100 USD! The value that I will lose in the hardware will be higher than the mined BTC value in the coming months!

I forgot to tell you that I've just bought 6 Icarus boards last month @ 500$ including shipment and tax! The hypothetical vision makes more sense for me here! If the factual vision makes more sense for you or anyone who is still interested in Icarus, I offer my newly arrived 6 Icarus boards @ 380 USD!
Energizer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 274



View Profile
June 30, 2012, 01:17:54 AM
 #197

BFL is supposed to be taking preorders today. ASICs are bringing huge changes to Bitcoin, ones that could even effect non-miners. I believe all of these changes will be for the best in the long run though. Now we can just hope that the openasic project turns something out in the next few months!

Yes, and they took preorders in Bitcoin primarily, and some estimates now put the amount of Bitcoin trying to be cashed out by their processor at $300,000 worth, which may be difficult for them to process in the near future. Since these preorders cannot be reversed and the estimated cost for an ASIC run is $3-5 million for all three devices and the time for development could be as long as 6 months or more, there is a very high likelihood we may see BFL not have enough money to do ASIC development for several months and the ASIC itself for several more months. In all, it could easily be a year or more before ASIC drops.

I think FPGA devices still have some play, but obviously these are all things to consider when ordering or implementing new designs. I know I would still buy Lancelots if they were developed, though I'd probably still prefer a quad-miner of some sort.

we (my team and some other core people) consider BFL have not spend any money on ASIC development yet. BFL's business flow is: announce dreamlike specs -> taking pre-orders -> find people to development -> if succeed, release and shipment. if fail, run. BFL sell products at super low price because their customer take all risks.
so now BFL is just collecting money for their ASIC project and avoid current delivery pressure (means they are running out cheap FPGAs).
if this business model succeeded, i will classified this as a shame of human intelligence.

and let me explain what is the "now in final stage development" mean. in ASIC design flow, this means RTL design is nearly finish. as a SOC or some other complex ASIC, RTL design and testing will take most of the development time. but mining ASIC is not a RTL complex design, it is a high computing density chip. most of the work is physical design, packaging and thermal design. RTL is less than 10% of the entire work.

What does the developer say? Do you have a solution for the bitstream yet? I'd love to buy one or two Lancelots rather sooner than later. Do you think it's risky to invest in FPGAs now? I'm not so worried about the energy efficiency but to achieve a high hash rate in order to still be able to compete at all with ASICs next year. I'm assuming the time for ROI is more than one year, or isn't it?

nearly finish.
the price will let the ROI in ~6 months.

Sorry ngzang! I totaly disagree with you! once again you are attacking BFL! you've done the same 6 months ago before they start shipping BFL singles! I've followed your direction at that time and invested in Icarus more than BFL singles! Now please take a close look at my position wich is similar to any of your clients/fans: 12 Icarus boards that will be worthless in couple of months and 2 BFL Singles that been paid to be upgraded to ASIC in 3 months. I know that by now you probably have invested a lot of time and effort in Lancelot and am sure its gonna be a piece of art as Icarus is! But that doesn't give you the right to turn your clients/fans into the wrong direction! BFL ASIC is real and it will hit the network soon! it may be delayed a couple of months but be sure it will be eating the network in the first month of 2013 if not earlier!

Now the question is, instead of attacking BFL! what can you do for your clients/fans? Did you even think about offering your clients a trade in program for Icarus to Lancelot? you didn't! but BFL did!

Do you really think BFL is giving you a deal with the trade in.  First off, they kept everyone's funds for months without shipping anything.  Then when they start shipping a small amount of the equipment, they tell everyone they are going to sell ASICS.  It doesn't take a smart person to figure it out but they just made you lock up more money for who knows how long this time.  I'm sure BFL could have sold their ASICS products for less money but then they wouldn't make you feel like you are getting a deal.  BFL is full of S***.  

Yes I do! and am not the only one!

Lol, and that is why the suckers keep lining up at the door.  

Do you mean the lending service door?
bulanula
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518



View Profile
June 30, 2012, 10:00:31 AM
 #198

Quote

I totally agree with you! Today Icarus is extremely profitable and will continue to be up until the block reward switches to 25 BTC or ASIC hits the network! But there is a missing part in your equation! what if BFL really delivers ASIC in October? or even January? By then Icarus will produce between minimum 1 maximum 5% BTC of what its currently producing! and if am lucky enough I would be able to sell it out for 100 USD! The value that I will lose in the hardware will be higher than the mined BTC value in the coming months!

I forgot to tell you that I've just bought 6 Icarus boards last month @ 500$ including shipment and tax! The hypothetical vision makes more sense for me here! If the factual vision makes more sense for you or anyone who is still interested in Icarus, I offer my newly arrived 6 Icarus boards @ 380 USD!

At least someone sees the light.

These spartans are only worth like $100 on the market now with 28nm FPGA coming.

This dude is making a killing.

Buy FPGA now and you are literally throwing your money in the wind ... never will be ROI paid back.

When you get break even ( mine enough BTC to pay off device cost in USD ) then you still have not made any profit since these devices are worth like $0.

Good luck trying to sell them when ASIC hits and more power to you trying to sell your crappy FPGA to industry that is now using all new 28nm FPGA.

This is not GPUs mate. This FPGA stuff is now totally useless with ASIC coming.

I doubt BFL ASIC is not going to come since they have like $400k in sales already.

Good luck losing your money on SPARTA !!!
punin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 559


View Profile WWW
June 30, 2012, 10:02:31 AM
 #199

I forgot to tell you that I've just bought 6 Icarus boards last month @ 500$ including shipment and tax! The hypothetical vision makes more sense for me here! If the factual vision makes more sense for you or anyone who is still interested in Icarus, I offer my newly arrived 6 Icarus boards @ 380 USD!

Where are you located? I'll take them.

Head of Product Development
Bitfury Group
www.bitfury.com
Coinoisseur
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252


View Profile
June 30, 2012, 01:35:51 PM
 #200

take a close look at my position wich is similar to any of your clients/fans: 12 Icarus boards that will be hashing from the day I receive them until the day they die or are shelved/sold and 2 BFL Singles that been paid to be upgraded to ASIC whenever BFL has some to sell and I get a good place in line. I know that by now you probably have invested a lot of time and effort in Lancelot and am sure its gonna be a piece of art as Icarus is! But that doesn't give you the right to turn your clients/fans into the wrong direction! BFL ASIC announcement is real and it may hit the network as long as it isn't canceled, BFL stays around as a going concern, and nothing unforeseen changes the hashing landscape! it may be delayed for an indeterminate time period but be sure it will be eating the network once it exists and starts hashing!

Now the question is, instead of attacking BFL. what can you do for your clients/fans? Have you ever thought of offering your clients a trade in program for Icarus to Lancelot like BFL did?

Made some changes in bold that I think better demonstrate the degree of certainty that is potential ASIC availability.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!