[Emergency ANN] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation

[casascius]

There is an embedded message in the transaction flow

The message is "EXPECT MASS LEAK SOON"

It is encoded in the spend of the remainder chunk that is not 2600 BTC

My apologies if someone else already pointed this out

[organofcorti]

Yep, but it was something like 20 pages in. Don't blame you for not seeing it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81045.msg895867#msg895867

[btccomm]

Is this the mass leak?

http://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-per-block

lol no, that is just the Satoshidice gambling platform.

what's the deal with this then?
http://blockchain.info/tree/5416502

 why did the tree get so big so fast.  what am i missing?

It's something called "money laundering": breaking up the stolen coins into smaller units to make them harder to follow, and sending them to many different addresses. Fortunately with Bitcoin, we have a blockchain that makes it a bit easier to follow.

It looks more like a joy ride to me.  Akin to stealing a car and joy riding around and dumping it when your done.

BTW Satoshidice looks like a network killer to me. 

[DeathAndTaxes]

BTW Satoshidice looks like a network killer to me. 

Hardly.  Block size and tx fees will put a cap on low value (as in utility not necessarily nominal value) txs.  All tx compete.  To date that competition has been non-existent because of massive subsidy and low tx volume.  In time the subsidy will decline and tx volume will increase.  The SD model is inefficient but currently the resource they are inefficient with is abundant.  Economic theory of finite resources (think oil) shows us the market will adapt.

Satoshi Dice killing the network is no more likely than Hummers using up all the oil.

[arby]

I am sure that will help lol

The authorities will send you your money, no doubts about that!

Since the form to request the Bitcoinica funds is not up yet, maybe it is best to just report how much Bitcoinica owes them to the New Zealand Serious Fraud Office (complaints@sfo.govt.nz).

[stochastic]

I am sure that will help lol

The authorities will send you your money, no doubts about that!

Since the form to request the Bitcoinica funds is not up yet, maybe it is best to just report how much Bitcoinica owes them to the New Zealand Serious Fraud Office (complaints@sfo.govt.nz).

It might not be possible to freeze or seize bitcoin accounts but it is possible to freeze or seize bank accounts denominated in fiat currency.

[SgtSpike]

I am sure that will help lol

The authorities will send you your money, no doubts about that!

Since the form to request the Bitcoinica funds is not up yet, maybe it is best to just report how much Bitcoinica owes them to the New Zealand Serious Fraud Office (complaints@sfo.govt.nz).

It might not be possible to freeze or seize bitcoin accounts but it is possible to freeze or seize bank accounts denominated in fiat currency.

Why are Bitcoiners, the trumpeters of currency free from the tyrannical and corrupt reign of the government over money, turning towards those governments for help when their free currency is stolen from them, due to lack of regulation?

It is the ultimate in hypocrisy, IMO.

[stochastic]

I am sure that will help lol

The authorities will send you your money, no doubts about that!

Since the form to request the Bitcoinica funds is not up yet, maybe it is best to just report how much Bitcoinica owes them to the New Zealand Serious Fraud Office (complaints@sfo.govt.nz).

It might not be possible to freeze or seize bitcoin accounts but it is possible to freeze or seize bank accounts denominated in fiat currency.

Why are Bitcoiners, the trumpeters of currency free from the tyrannical and corrupt reign of the government over money, turning towards those governments for help when their free currency is stolen from them, due to lack of regulation?

It is the ultimate in hypocrisy, IMO.

Bitcoinica decided to be regulated not Bitcoiners.  If Bitcoinica wants to play by the rules of the government so be it, I am only showing what channels are available for people if they are not satisfied with how Bitcoinica is handling the situation.

[arby]

Of course they can seize the funds.

I was talking about returning it to their previous owners. The authorities CAN NOT send you any money back until the investigation/trial is over, and that is gonna take a LONG time. Also I do not think the authorities will give you interest for your money while they hold it.

Anyway, these people are not going anywhere, they have two choices, cover their losses and I think they will, because they did the last time, and then start making money again, or take off, which I doubt they will, the cow can still be milked, however if the authorities get involved, and they shut down bitcoinica, well, then I think you should not be expecting your money back soon.

I am sure that will help lol

The authorities will send you your money, no doubts about that!

Since the form to request the Bitcoinica funds is not up yet, maybe it is best to just report how much Bitcoinica owes them to the New Zealand Serious Fraud Office (complaints@sfo.govt.nz).

It might not be possible to freeze or seize bitcoin accounts but it is possible to freeze or seize bank accounts denominated in fiat currency.

[SgtSpike]

I am sure that will help lol

The authorities will send you your money, no doubts about that!

Since the form to request the Bitcoinica funds is not up yet, maybe it is best to just report how much Bitcoinica owes them to the New Zealand Serious Fraud Office (complaints@sfo.govt.nz).

It might not be possible to freeze or seize bitcoin accounts but it is possible to freeze or seize bank accounts denominated in fiat currency.

Why are Bitcoiners, the trumpeters of currency free from the tyrannical and corrupt reign of the government over money, turning towards those governments for help when their free currency is stolen from them, due to lack of regulation?

It is the ultimate in hypocrisy, IMO.

Bitcoinica decided to be regulated not Bitcoiners.  If Bitcoinica wants to play by the rules of the government so be it, I am only showing what channels are available for people if they are not satisfied with how Bitcoinica is handling the situation.

Fair enough. 

[JoelKatz]

Why are Bitcoiners, the trumpeters of currency free from the tyrannical and corrupt reign of the government over money, turning towards those governments for help when their free currency is stolen from them, due to lack of regulation?

It is the ultimate in hypocrisy, IMO.

There is no hypocrisy whatsoever in living in the world as it actually is while arguing that it should be different. In any event, the tyrannical and corrupt reign of government over money has nothing to do with the legitimate function of government in operating police and courts to deal with actual cases of theft and fraud.

[bulanula]

Some of us still have not learnt a basic thing : in BTC world nobody gets jailed for doing anything no matter how big or small the theft.

Not shakaru, not Tom Williams, not Bitcoin7, not MrMoon, not bitcoinica, not allinvain hacker, not me, nobody.

The scammers are going to be sucking on this community until we decide that it is not worth it anymore.

ATM I think there are more stolen BTC than fairly owned BTCs. 

[lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)]

Since Bitcoinica already lost bitcoins through a security compromise twice, putting a refund page too quickly has a high risk of getting compromised again. Ideally, a company should have policies in place that allow them to handle problems like this efficiently, but I would say Bitcoinica hasn't. This further increases the risk. From this point of view, the current operators probably chose the more risk-averse option of taking more time to make a more secure refund system and procedure.

I bet that if a refund page was put up hastily and subsequently got compromised, the same people would complain who complain now that it's taking too long.

[guruvan]

also note that bitcoinica LP dint join arbitrage programs like FDR (http://www.fdr.org.nz/) any complain needs to go at Financial Market Authority (http://www.fma.govt.nz/) to make a complaint take a look here http://www.fma.govt.nz/about-us/contact-us/what-do-you-want-to-do/make-a-complaint-or-report-misconduct/ also remember you have 40 days to make said complains so wait a bit maybe bitcoinica will compensate you

you can make complains and top compensation is 15 000 (if bitcoinica agrees to pay the top payment is 20 000)  above this sum u need to go at a kiwi court

HELLO It's Wednesday, WHERE IS MY FUCKING MONEY?

Nothing like taking a forced, interest free loan from the poor chumps who thought you were a responsible business.

LOL. At this point, I no longer care if Bitcoinica returns the funds. I'm taking this up with the authorities, since they're too fucking irresponsible to actually communicate with users in any meaningful way.

Strateman: I've seen how you deal with people who you think stole from you, how come you just ignore those who think you stole from them?Serious  double standard. If you won't return it, it's called theft. Or did you forget your IRC conversation?  (an IRC conversation that showed your gross incompetence yet one more time)

How anyone can continue to do business with you is completely beyond me. Bitcoiners should run off the incompetent, and larcenous people in their midst  If they don't leave of their own accord, they'll fuck over the wrong bitcoiner who will probably hire someone to make them leave.

We don't need your bad press. Just our money, and your exit.

Why are Bitcoiners, the trumpeters of currency free from the tyrannical and corrupt reign of the government over money, turning towards those governments for help when their free currency is stolen from them, due to lack of regulation?

It is the ultimate in hypocrisy, IMO.

There is no hypocrisy whatsoever in living in the world as it actually is while arguing that it should be different. In any event, the tyrannical and corrupt reign of government over money has nothing to do with the legitimate function of government in operating police and courts to deal with actual cases of theft and fraud.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Final word: Bitcoinica never was the most dangerous thing to threaten bitcoin. Intersango has been, is now, and will be for some time to come. Mark my words. These guys will fuck up again, and it's gonna REALLY cost. This is peanuts compared to what will happen when they do actually take the money and run.

[mobodick]

Nice 

Can the current owner(s) of bitcoinica comment on these transactions that took place today?

I'm not an owner, but I know what happened.

We have a fallback node called fallback.nodes.bitcoinica.com. It's still running in Linode. That was initially set up to provide external connections for our secure vault server (which can only access trusted nodes).

Since the network conditions are great, the node has always maintained hundreds of connections and it's very likely to be the first one to relay new transactions.

thanks.

[mobodick]

Why are Bitcoiners, the trumpeters of currency free from the tyrannical and corrupt reign of the government over money, turning towards those governments for help when their free currency is stolen from them, due to lack of regulation?

It is the ultimate in hypocrisy, IMO.

There is no hypocrisy whatsoever in living in the world as it actually is while arguing that it should be different.

There is, however, hypocrisy in giving the finger to governments (FU, wez got bitcoinz nowz) but then when things turn bad start crying like a baby and demand official help.
But that's crowd behaviour and crowds are dumb. The left arm doesn't know why the right arm is doing and the consensus is always based on a reduction of reality. More so than in individuals at least...

"In any event, the tyrannical and corrupt reign of government over money has nothing to do with the legitimate function of government in operating police and courts to deal with actual cases of theft and fraud."

Correction, it SHOULD have nothing to do.
There are NUMEROUS cases where the corruption of government has spread into all 3 legs of the trias (if, indeed, there is one).
So at LEAST we should make a per-country distinction depending on the countries current situation.

[Boussac]

Why are Bitcoiners, the trumpeters of currency free from the tyrannical and corrupt reign of the government over money, turning towards those governments for help when their free currency is stolen from them, due to lack of regulation?

It is the ultimate in hypocrisy, IMO.

There is no hypocrisy whatsoever in living in the world as it actually is while arguing that it should be different. In any event, the tyrannical and corrupt reign of government over money has nothing to do with the legitimate function of government in operating police and courts to deal with actual cases of theft and fraud.

+1
I would add that IMHO the legitimate function of government includes even regulation as long as regulation does not hinder innovation.
Unfortunately, regulatory capture happens when lobbyists take the driving seat.

[BIGMERVE]

also note that bitcoinica LP dint join arbitrage programs like FDR (http://www.fdr.org.nz/) any complain needs to go at Financial Market Authority (http://www.fma.govt.nz/) to make a complaint take a look here http://www.fma.govt.nz/about-us/contact-us/what-do-you-want-to-do/make-a-complaint-or-report-misconduct/ also remember you have 40 days to make said complains so wait a bit maybe bitcoinica will compensate you

you can make complains and top compensation is 15 000 (if bitcoinica agrees to pay the top payment is 20 000)  above this sum u need to go at a kiwi court

HELLO It's Wednesday, WHERE IS MY FUCKING MONEY?

Nothing like taking a forced, interest free loan from the poor chumps who thought you were a responsible business.

LOL. At this point, I no longer care if Bitcoinica returns the funds. I'm taking this up with the authorities, since they're too fucking irresponsible to actually communicate with users in any meaningful way.

Strateman: I've seen how you deal with people who you think stole from you, how come you just ignore those who think you stole from them?Serious  double standard. If you won't return it, it's called theft. Or did you forget your IRC conversation?  (an IRC conversation that showed your gross incompetence yet one more time)

How anyone can continue to do business with you is completely beyond me. Bitcoiners should run off the incompetent, and larcenous people in their midst  If they don't leave of their own accord, they'll fuck over the wrong bitcoiner who will probably hire someone to make them leave.

We don't need your bad press. Just our money, and your exit.

Why are Bitcoiners, the trumpeters of currency free from the tyrannical and corrupt reign of the government over money, turning towards those governments for help when their free currency is stolen from them, due to lack of regulation?

It is the ultimate in hypocrisy, IMO.

There is no hypocrisy whatsoever in living in the world as it actually is while arguing that it should be different. In any event, the tyrannical and corrupt reign of government over money has nothing to do with the legitimate function of government in operating police and courts to deal with actual cases of theft and fraud.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Final word: Bitcoinica never was the most dangerous thing to threaten bitcoin. Intersango has been, is now, and will be for some time to come. Mark my words. These guys will fuck up again, and it's gonna REALLY cost. This is peanuts compared to what will happen when they do actually take the money and run.

Jesus calm down. It's been 4 days. They already said they would be returning everyone's funds. We all lost money but saying , "I'm taking this up with the authorities, since they're too fucking irresponsible to actually communicate with users in any meaningful way" is helping nobody.

[muyuu]

LOL. At this point, I no longer care if Bitcoinica returns the funds. I'm taking this up with the authorities, since they're too fucking irresponsible to actually communicate with users in any meaningful way.

You are a keyboard warrior and as such you are going to do fuck all.

Final word: Bitcoinica never was the most dangerous thing to threaten bitcoin. Intersango has been, is now, and will be for some time to come. Mark my words. These guys will fuck up again, and it's gonna REALLY cost. This is peanuts compared to what will happen when they do actually take the money and run.

Huh? Best exchange AFAIK.

[cryptoanarchist]

#1. Don't park more money than you can afford to lose in any one site - especially one ran by people who claim to want to 'regulate' bitcoin.

#2. Once they've goofed not once, but twice, on basic security measures - get the fuck away and don't turn back.

Luckily for me I had next to nothing on their site. I don't expect to get back what I did have there, and their reassurances don't really make me anymore confident. They wouldn't be the first scammers that promised to return funds.