P

[markm]

GLBSE used to have all clients sign their orders with their private key, pretty soon because obvious that this wasn't going to scale as more and more people lost their keys

As long as its them losing their keys not me losing their keys that is fine. They are free to lose their keys, I am free to lose mine.

Whether people should be free to invest in ponzi schemes or not I am still willing to allow them the freedom to lose their keys.

-MarkM-

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[wirmola]

is there any chance that he will pay?
what are we gonna do about it? send guys to his place??
did anyone speak to him, and what does he say..??

[Mageant]

AFAIK if you declare bankruptcy in Texas you get to keep your house. So if Pirate did that there might be nothing to seize from him.

[Tomatocage]

Personally, I trust Goat *WAY* more than Pirate, but if Pirate really wants/needs proof from the bond-holders themselves, I see no reason why he can't just set up an account himself and say "Ok anybody who wants their payout, send your shares of XXXXX bond to pirate_deposits and you'll receive .XXXX BTC per share".  Problem solved, and you circumvent Nefario and Goat all together.

OR, Pirate can simply set up his own BID Wall and tell everyone to dump. He doesn't need anyone's info.

Goat, Nefario and anyone else showing Pirate just the slightest bit of resistance to his crap should be rewarded, not kicked in public.

THEY ARE PROTECTING THEIR CUSTOMERS.

Protecting yes, but from who or what, who knows... I highly doubt Pirate personally wants that info.

Has there been any clarity on this since yesterday?

[piotr_n]

So, coming back to the TYGRR.BOND-P topic, and the contract which clearly states:

1) This is a pass through bond to BTCST.
2) The money gained from the selling of these bonds will go to BTCST.

... knowing that now the number of TYGRR.BOND-P bonds in circulation is 31703, while it was less than 27895 at August the 20th - this means that Goat is clearly violating the IPO contract!

IMO, such a blatant and outrageous action should not only give him a SCAMMER tag on the forum, but it should also ban him from GLBSE once and for all!

But obviously, Nefario still claims that Goat has done nothing wrong - right, Nefario?

[Tomatocage]

So, coming back to the TYGRR.BOND-P topic, and the contract which clearly states:

1) This is a pass through bond to BTCST.
2) The money gained from the selling of these bonds will go to BTCST.

... knowing that now the number of TYGRR.BOND-P bonds in circulation is 31703, while it was less than 27895 at August the 20th - this means that Goat is clearly violating the IPO contract!

IMO, such a blatant and outrageous action should not only give him a SCAMMER tag on the forum, but it should also ban him from GLBSE once and for all!

But obviously, Nefario still claims that Goat has done nothing wrong - right, Nefario?

It's immaterial at this point. Even if it were 1,000,000 shares, 1 million x 0 is still 0.

[piotr_n]

So, coming back to the TYGRR.BOND-P topic, and the contract which clearly states:

1) This is a pass through bond to BTCST.
2) The money gained from the selling of these bonds will go to BTCST.

... knowing that now the number of TYGRR.BOND-P bonds in circulation is 31703, while it was less than 27895 at August the 20th - this means that Goat is clearly violating the IPO contract!

IMO, such a blatant and outrageous action should not only give him a SCAMMER tag on the forum, but it should also ban him from GLBSE once and for all!

But obviously, Nefario still claims that Goat has done nothing wrong - right, Nefario?

It's immaterial at this point. Even if it were 1,000,000 shares, 1 million x 0 is still 0.

Well if it is immaterial - then he is profiting from selling worthless bonds, while promising to deposit them into BS&T and buy them back at 1.0 + interests if Pirate would pay out.

But in reality there is still an actual possibility that Pirate will pay out.
And if so: where is he going to get the extra money from, since he's selling the bonds now at 0.1, without even depositing this fraction into BS&T?
The obvious answer: he won't have the money to cover his obligations, if Pirate does pay out.

Either way - he violates the contract, which is completely unacceptable and it's just a clear, outrageous fraud - nothing else!

But you people are so happy with this that I just don't even want to ruin your fun...
So please pardon my "trolling" and just keep letting him doing what he does, since I'm dying to see how this will end up

[JoelKatz]

Well if it is immaterial - then he is profiting from selling worthless bonds, while promising to deposit them into BS&T and buy them back at 1.0 + interests if Pirate would pay out.

But in reality there is still an actual possibility that Pirate will pay out.
And if so: where is he going to get the extra money from, since he's selling the bonds now at 0.1, without even depositing this fraction into BS&T?
The obvious answer: he won't have the money to cover his obligations, if Pirate does pay out.

Either way - he violates the contract, which is completely unacceptable and it's just a clear, outrageous fraud - nothing else!

But you people are so happy with this that I just don't even want to ruin your fun...
So please pardon my "trolling" and just keep letting him doing what he does, since I'm dying to see how this will end up

The only way I can see this being acceptable is if he has already deposited funds with Pirate and is selling a claim on them should they be fully paid off. So long as his personal balance with Pirate is more than the face value of the bonds and he deducts the face value from his tracking of his personal balance, I don't see any fraud. Otherwise, I agree with you. He can't pay the face value to Pirate if he sells the bond for less than face.

[piotr_n]

Well if it is immaterial - then he is profiting from selling worthless bonds, while promising to deposit them into BS&T and buy them back at 1.0 + interests if Pirate would pay out.

But in reality there is still an actual possibility that Pirate will pay out.
And if so: where is he going to get the extra money from, since he's selling the bonds now at 0.1, without even depositing this fraction into BS&T?
The obvious answer: he won't have the money to cover his obligations, if Pirate does pay out.

Either way - he violates the contract, which is completely unacceptable and it's just a clear, outrageous fraud - nothing else!

But you people are so happy with this that I just don't even want to ruin your fun...
So please pardon my "trolling" and just keep letting him doing what he does, since I'm dying to see how this will end up

The only way I can see this being acceptable is if he has already deposited funds with Pirate and is selling a claim on them should they be fully paid off. So long as his personal balance with Pirate is more than the face value of the bonds and he deducts the face value from his tracking of his personal balance, I don't see any fraud. Otherwise, I agree with you. He can't pay the face value to Pirate if he sells the bond for less than face.

Over 40K in BTCST. Theymos took screen shots I'm told.

You have 40K in BTCST - so what???

It doesn't mean that you are not violating the contract by selling the bonds now!

Or maybe you just don't understand English?

The money gained from the selling of these bonds will go to BTCST.
What would the word "will" mean in this sentence, if not explicitly stating that you must first sell a bond, before you can deposit the relevant amount into BTCST?
The contract, which you wrote yourself, strictly forbids you to do it the other way around.
Even if you had had some extra funds deposited in BTCST, they were your personal funds and had nothing to do with TYGRR.BOND-P.
Since BS&T stopped accepting new deposits, you have had no right whatsoever to convert your personal deposit into new TYGRR.BOND-P bonds.

Moreover, as you have already admitted in this thread (and Nefario confirmed the statement to be true), you were not only selling new bonds after the 17th, but also buying these bonds back - which the contract also forbids you doing, being very specific about it:
The bond will not be bought back unless BTCST refunds the deposit.

[JoelKatz]

You have 40K in BTCST - so what???

So he's only selling debt that he actually has.

It doesn't mean that you are not violating the contract by selling the bonds now!

It does.

The money gained from the selling of these bonds will go to BTCST.
What would the word "will" mean in this sentence, if not explicitly stating that you must first sell a bond, before you can deposit the relevant amount into BTCST?
The contract, which you wrote yourself, strictly forbids you to do it the other way around.

In this case though, no money is gained from selling those bonds because he's selling them at a loss.

Even if you had had some extra funds deposited in BTCST, they were your personal funds and had nothing to do with TYGRR.BOND-P.

Right, until he turns them into bonds and sells them, which is exactly what he's doing.

Since BS&T stopped accepting new deposits, you have had no right whatsoever to convert your personal deposit into new TYGRR.BOND-P bonds.

I cannot imagine why you think this. The whole purpose of his pass through was to convert his personal Pirate debt into bonds.

Moreover, as you have already admitted in this thread (and Nefario confirmed the statement to be true), you were not only selling new bonds after the 17th, but also buying these bonds back - which the contract also forbids you doing, being very specific about it:
The bond will not be bought back unless BTCST refunds the deposit.

He didn't buy them "back", he simply bought them the same way anyone else would buy them.

[btharper]

You have 40K in BTCST - so what???

So he's only selling debt that he actually has.

It doesn't mean that you are not violating the contract by selling the bonds now!

It does.

The money gained from the selling of these bonds will go to BTCST.
What would the word "will" mean in this sentence, if not explicitly stating that you must first sell a bond, before you can deposit the relevant amount into BTCST?
The contract, which you wrote yourself, strictly forbids you to do it the other way around.

In this case though, no money is gained from selling those bonds because he's selling them at a loss.

Even if you had had some extra funds deposited in BTCST, they were your personal funds and had nothing to do with TYGRR.BOND-P.

Right, until he turns them into bonds and sells them, which is exactly what he's doing.

Since BS&T stopped accepting new deposits, you have had no right whatsoever to convert your personal deposit into new TYGRR.BOND-P bonds.

I cannot imagine why you think this. The whole purpose of his pass through was to convert his personal Pirate debt into bonds.

Moreover, as you have already admitted in this thread (and Nefario confirmed the statement to be true), you were not only selling new bonds after the 17th, but also buying these bonds back - which the contract also forbids you doing, being very specific about it:
The bond will not be bought back unless BTCST refunds the deposit.

He didn't buy them "back", he simply bought them the same way anyone else would buy them.

+1 You have more patience than I do

[wirmola]

why is the price going up again? did I miss something?

[MoPac]

why is the price going up again? did I miss something?

Supposedly a modest number of accounts (22 at the moment, claims a script on IRC) have been paid something back.  It's not very clear from where I'm sitting, but there seems to be some renewed hope out there that the debt isn't totally worthless.

[totaleclipseofthebank]

dead cat bounce

[btharper]

why is the price going up again? did I miss something?

Supposedly a modest number of accounts (22 at the moment, claims a script on IRC) have been paid something back.  It's not very clear from where I'm sitting, but there seems to be some renewed hope out there that the debt isn't totally worthless.

Any word on how much is being paid back? I assume in full at this point (if everyone's gettining excited about it)?

[MoPac]

Any word on how much is being paid back? I assume in full at this point (if everyone's gettining excited about it)?

Well, I think at this point there are differing definitions of "full" depending on how much interest you expect.  I'm not sure whether the paybacks are real or how much they've actually been paid.

I'm also not sure whether people thinking the debt might be worth 35% of no-interest face value really qualifies as "excited", but...

[BadBear]

why is the price going up again? did I miss something?

Supposedly a modest number of accounts (22 at the moment, claims a script on IRC) have been paid something back.  It's not very clear from where I'm sitting, but there seems to be some renewed hope out there that the debt isn't totally worthless.

Any word on how much is being paid back? I assume in full at this point (if everyone's gettining excited about it)?

I wouldn't get your hopes up, there's not even any confirmation anyone has been paid back yet. The only person who has said anyone has been paid back is Pirate. And his word is worthless since he has broken it several times in the past few weeks.

[btharper]

why is the price going up again? did I miss something?

Supposedly a modest number of accounts (22 at the moment, claims a script on IRC) have been paid something back.  It's not very clear from where I'm sitting, but there seems to be some renewed hope out there that the debt isn't totally worthless.

Any word on how much is being paid back? I assume in full at this point (if everyone's gettining excited about it)?

I wouldn't get your hopes up, there's not even any confirmation anyone has been paid back yet. The only person who has said anyone has been paid back is Pirate. And his word is worthless since he has broken it several times in the past few weeks.

I was figuring that other people had confirmed on irc that they had received full (at least face value) on their deposits.

[wirmola]

I think I might buy some more, for my dividends already made from this project.
 I think it's very difficult for him to disappear with this money when we have so much info about him.
 Maybe it's a longshot, but nice +EV if he pays.
 I think his intentions are to pay back, but the money are prolly locked inside the system at the moment..  hopefully..

[burnside]

I think I might buy some more, for my dividends already made from this project.
 I think it's very difficult for him to disappear with this money when we have so much info about him.
 Maybe it's a longshot, but nice +EV if he pays.
 I think his intentions are to pay back, but the money are prolly locked inside the system at the moment..  hopefully..

What reasonably plausible system locks for over 2 weeks?